Author Topic: What do we need to make the finals?  (Read 4477 times)

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Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2021, 02:34:03 PM »

Offline Darth_Yoda

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Brad to be a more assertive coach that hold players accountable and is not afraid of players/ref/opposing coaches etc.

Sit behind the bench during a fourth quarter and we値l see if you still want to claim this.

Yeah, he really gets on Marcus Smarts hero ball shots, Or when Tatum gets blinders, or when defensive assignments are missed, or when the opposing team closed a 10+ point lead down to 1, or when there is a blatant blown call that he doesn't want to challenge.
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Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2021, 05:22:40 PM »

Offline MarcusSmartFanClub

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We probably have a team that is close to competing for the Finals. I wouldn't mind a big body to bang up against Bam. Bench scoring as well. I think we can pick up a big (maybe Drummond), as well as a Lou Williams-type scorer off the bench (I think he might be toast). This seems very doable, and Danny should make minor moves and somehow use that TPE.

We need a dominant big man over 6'10 to compete with AD and Lebron. This will take a while to develop. From the Celtics point of view, I think that FA will yield more opportunities than the draft.

Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2021, 05:48:10 PM »

Online nickagneta

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Brad to be a more assertive coach that hold players accountable and is not afraid of players/ref/opposing coaches etc.

Sit behind the bench during a fourth quarter and we値l see if you still want to claim this.
Yeah, I have sat close to the bench a couple times and if you can hear Stevens discussions with players coming off the floor or discussions with refs, one probably wouldn't have this opinion.

Simply because Stevens isn't loud and demonstrative in front of the camera and acting like a combination of a high school coach/authoritarian drill sergeant and Nick Nurse, doesn't mean he doesn't hold his players responsible for poor play or work the refs.

Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2021, 06:08:02 PM »

Offline Redz

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Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2021, 08:08:10 PM »

Offline RJ87

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Brad to be a more assertive coach that hold players accountable and is not afraid of players/ref/opposing coaches etc.

Sit behind the bench during a fourth quarter and we値l see if you still want to claim this.
Yeah, I have sat close to the bench a couple times and if you can hear Stevens discussions with players coming off the floor or discussions with refs, one probably wouldn't have this opinion.

Simply because Stevens isn't loud and demonstrative in front of the camera and acting like a combination of a high school coach/authoritarian drill sergeant and Nick Nurse, doesn't mean he doesn't hold his players responsible for poor play or work the refs.

TP.

Brad has never been a coach that calls his guys out publicly, throws fits on the sidelines, or whines to the media. At some point, people started conflating demonstrativeness with coaching ability. Brad is even-keeled and measured, that's who he is and has always been. Posters need to stop expecting him to be different for their benefit.

Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2021, 08:23:52 PM »

Offline MarcusSmartFanClub

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Brad to be a more assertive coach that hold players accountable and is not afraid of players/ref/opposing coaches etc.

Sit behind the bench during a fourth quarter and we値l see if you still want to claim this.
Yeah, I have sat close to the bench a couple times and if you can hear Stevens discussions with players coming off the floor or discussions with refs, one probably wouldn't have this opinion.

Simply because Stevens isn't loud and demonstrative in front of the camera and acting like a combination of a high school coach/authoritarian drill sergeant and Nick Nurse, doesn't mean he doesn't hold his players responsible for poor play or work the refs.

Wrong post sorry.

Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2021, 11:05:48 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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Brad to be a more assertive coach that hold players accountable and is not afraid of players/ref/opposing coaches etc.

Sit behind the bench during a fourth quarter and we値l see if you still want to claim this.
Yeah, I have sat close to the bench a couple times and if you can hear Stevens discussions with players coming off the floor or discussions with refs, one probably wouldn't have this opinion.

Simply because Stevens isn't loud and demonstrative in front of the camera and acting like a combination of a high school coach/authoritarian drill sergeant and Nick Nurse, doesn't mean he doesn't hold his players responsible for poor play or work the refs.

TP.

Brad has never been a coach that calls his guys out publicly, throws fits on the sidelines, or whines to the media. At some point, people started conflating demonstrativeness with coaching ability. Brad is even-keeled and measured, that's who he is and has always been. Posters need to stop expecting him to be different for their benefit.

Hey, that's fine. But what we do see is that players who go outside their limitations constantly are not held accountable by the coach pulling them.
It's simple - play the right way, within your particular skills, that will contribute to team success or sit down. Not saying he needs to jerk guys for one mistake at all, that's going too far the other way. But allowing players who are shooting us out of a game or who are going iso too much instead of running the offense, should be pulled in favor of someone who will play smarter.
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Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2021, 11:13:42 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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Regarding the OP's question, I see us as needing an upgrade in the post, a playmaking point guard and a knock-down catch & shoot guy off the bench. Could be that Rob Williams and Pritchard will develop into two of those guys. Maybe Pritchard will be both the playmaker and shooter all in one. I also do think Stevens has to be tougher with the players as I described above.
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Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2021, 03:09:17 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Regarding the OP's question, I see us as needing an upgrade in the post, a playmaking point guard and a knock-down catch & shoot guy off the bench. Could be that Rob Williams and Pritchard will develop into two of those guys. Maybe Pritchard will be both the playmaker and shooter all in one. I also do think Stevens has to be tougher with the players as I described above.
I mean how many players are actually viable post creators on championship level teams? There are very few big men who can be a part of an elite defensive unit and be good enough in the post to buoy a good offence by leveraging his threat to score with passing, even less if you want additional shooting and offensive rebounding/lob finishing. Like sure we can use one of those players, but the cost of getting one of those players is going to be prohibitive.
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Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2021, 03:20:04 AM »

Online knuckleballer

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After a 4-0 start, Orlando has now lost 5 of 7 including their last 3 games (all blowouts).  Hopefully, it continues and they make some of their players available by mid season.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 03:31:32 AM by knuckleballer »

Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2021, 12:01:51 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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IMO, all we need is health. Would be great to have another shooter, but if Kemba is healthy, another shooter would almost be a luxury. Ideally, Nesmith or Romeo will become a quality rotation player by playoff time.

A million trade suggestions won't change my mind. Getting a better big than those we have would cost other assets, and the more we have 2 bigs on the court, the more congested it is for J & J. But if you come up with a reasonable way to get Jokic, let everyone know.

Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2021, 12:43:03 PM »

Offline bdm860

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IMO, all we need is health. Would be great to have another shooter, but if Kemba is healthy, another shooter would almost be a luxury. Ideally, Nesmith or Romeo will become a quality rotation player by playoff time.

A million trade suggestions won't change my mind. Getting a better big than those we have would cost other assets, and the more we have 2 bigs on the court, the more congested it is for J & J. But if you come up with a reasonable way to get Jokic, let everyone know.

Kind of ironic when you think about the C's run over the last 4 years, the year they were the healthiest was the year they didn't make the conference finals.

2017 make the Conference Finals - IT hip injury (played injured first 2 rounds before eventually sitting out)
2018 make the Conference Finals - Hayward out, Kyrie out, Smart missed 4 games with an injury, Brown missed 1 1/2
2019 no Conference Finals - Smart missed first 7 games
2020 make the Conference Finals - Hayward injured, Langford injured, Walker playing injured

If I didn't know any better and you just showed me the beginning expectations and end results, I would have guessed '17, '18, '20 the team had good health and '19 was derailed by injuries.

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Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2021, 12:45:48 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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if you come up with a reasonable way to get Jokic, let everyone know.
Tatum + fillers for Jokic. Poison pill provision would be a problem. I bet both teams would say no. :P

Personally speaking, I'd do it for the C's. We'd probably have to make more moves to balance the roster, but imo Jokic is a top 5 player in the league. Worst case scenario, top 6. Never gonna happen obviously. Just saying.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 01:13:15 PM by Jvalin »

Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2021, 04:11:02 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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if you come up with a reasonable way to get Jokic, let everyone know.
Tatum + fillers for Jokic. Poison pill provision would be a problem. I bet both teams would say no. :P

Personally speaking, I'd do it for the C's. We'd probably have to make more moves to balance the roster, but imo Jokic is a top 5 player in the league. Worst case scenario, top 6. Never gonna happen obviously. Just saying.

I wouldn't do it, but not because the value isn't there - it is. And it would be a fit for the long-standing visions of both Ainge and Stevens to play through a big.

When Ainge became an executive with the Celtics he mentioned two offenses that he'd like to emulate: Sacramento and Minnesota. The Kings at that time were playing through Divac and/or Webber and the TWolves were playing through Garnett. And of course it was only a few seasons later that Garnett was doing that in Boston.

Olynyk and especially Al Horford were used in that role effectively later on, but Jokic is a cut above the rest, maybe above every big ever.

On the other hand that is not such a great role for Theis or Thompson.

All the same, I think that the franchise's best long-term practice is to avoid churn and drastic changes, unless they're forced. Is Tatum a top-10 NBA player? Good chance, and his future looks even better than his present. If he's 11th best, and Jokic is 5th (or however you rank them), I say that's not a good enough difference.

I'm uncomfortable with ranking players so specifically anyway. How a guy is used, fatigue and injury, decline, different variabilities in performance, a big measure of plain luck, and, not least, the method you use to rank players, all affect how your list sorts out; and the number differences are minuscule.

Add to that that you're comparing players who do vastly different things on the court (e.g., Jokic and Tatum), and those comparisons really don't seem possible - at least at the level of #3, #9, #21, etc.

Can you win a championship with Tatum? I'd say yes, of course you can.

So, what does Boston need to get to the Finals.

I'll say first that I'm a little disappointed in the question. As Celtics fans, isn't the question supposed to be, 'how do you win Championship 18?' But oh well.

I'm opposed to acquiring James Harden. His willingness to damage the Rockets with irresponsible and team-detrimental behavior cannot be acceptable to the Boston Celtics. It's team-first around here, in case you hadn't heard.

I'm not excited about potential Orlando Magic trade targets, either, since the price tags are inflated for the value return.

No doubt there are other trade targets possible, but more than anything Boston needs a guy who can push the ball up the floor quicker, get the ball anywhere he needs to off the dribble, and then make a play. They need Kemba Walker.

He's a brilliant pnr ballhandler, and if he returns fully healthy, Thompson and especially Daniel Theis will have their games open up.

I pushed back most of last season on the idea that Boston needed a scorer 'off the bench', since there weren't enough shots to go around as it was. But with Hayward gone and Kemba injured, the usage is overwhelmingly shifted to two players.

Tatum is at 30.9% and Brown is at 29.2%. Third among rotation players is Teague at 18.3%. While this might be sustainable, if those two have good luck with injuries, it's a poor recipe for a really effective offense and for a rested duo in the playoffs.

They need Kemba. His usage last year was between the two Jays at 27.2, and his turnover% was between them, too.

Boston needs to get to the line more. Kemba did more often per fga than either of the Jays.

They need Kemba. If his knee is going to fall apart every spring, then they need someone else like him.

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Re: What do we need to make the finals?
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2021, 07:23:30 PM »

Offline celticbos

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Al Horford is what we need. Smart and Theis along with a portion of TPE would be worth the deal. Should leave us with enough to help bench after.