James Harden Holding Out

[CelticsElite]

Anyone notice all the teams that harden wants to go to are in the east so far ? He’s dodging having to face LeBron and the other teams that keep beating him in the western playoffs


There’s 1 thing Ainge historically loved trading for and its disgruntled superstars that are tired of losing. If harden mentions he’s open to Boston, Ainge is going all in.

[Wretch]

Anyone notice all the teams that harden wants to go to are in the east so far ? He’s dodging having to face LeBron and the other teams that keep beating him in the western playoffs


There’s 1 thing Ainge historically loved trading for and its disgruntled superstars that are tired of losing. If harden mentions he’s open to Boston, Ainge is going all in.

The problem with Harden is that Houston was winning but he laid eggs in the playoffs. Ainge wants competitors not prima donnas.  Say what you want about Kyrie (I personally have a lot of bad things to say) he was a gamer in college and in the playoffs with Cleveland.

[SHAQATTACK]

Danny exploring a trade as we speak

Harden ....for various combo of Brown ,   Smart ,  Kemba ,  assets .

no matter how bad you hate the thought ,  he would not be a good GM if he didn't at least see what tease he could throw at Houston , see if it sticks .

I remember people here thought there was no way he d trade for Kyrie ....  for our hero IT and possible lotto pick...But i thought he might might try and he did.

[Moranis]

Anyone notice all the teams that harden wants to go to are in the east so far ? He’s dodging having to face LeBron and the other teams that keep beating him in the western playoffs


There’s 1 thing Ainge historically loved trading for and its disgruntled superstars that are tired of losing. If harden mentions he’s open to Boston, Ainge is going all in.

The problem with Harden is that Houston was winning but he laid eggs in the playoffs. Ainge wants competitors not prima donnas.  Say what you want about Kyrie (I personally have a lot of bad things to say) he was a gamer in college and in the playoffs with Cleveland.

I'm not exactly sure how true that is.  He certainly has gone cold at times, but he does that in the regular season as well.  Live by the 3, die by the 3.  But he never goes passive.  He has always continued playing his game. 

[Muzzy66]

Anyone notice all the teams that harden wants to go to are in the east so far ? He’s dodging having to face LeBron and the other teams that keep beating him in the western playoffs


There’s 1 thing Ainge historically loved trading for and its disgruntled superstars that are tired of losing. If harden mentions he’s open to Boston, Ainge is going all in.

The problem with Harden is that Houston was winning but he laid eggs in the playoffs. Ainge wants competitors not prima donnas.  Say what you want about Kyrie (I personally have a lot of bad things to say) he was a gamer in college and in the playoffs with Cleveland.

I'm not exactly sure how true that is.  He certainly has gone cold at times, but he does that in the regular season as well.  Live by the 3, die by the 3.  But he never goes passive.  He has always continued playing his game.

I think the part in bold here i the problem lol

[Muzzy66]

Danny exploring a trade as we speak

Harden ....for various combo of Brown ,   Smart ,  Kemba ,  assets .

no matter how bad you hate the thought ,  he would not be a good GM if he didn't at least see what tease he could throw at Houston , see if it sticks .

I remember people here thought there was no way he d trade for Kyrie ....  for our hero IT and possible lotto pick...But i thought he might might try and he did.

Please god no.  I can't stand Harden, he is the penultimate example of the selfish, egotistical stat padder who couldn't care less about winning as long as he wins as many individual awards as he can possible get.  Of all the superstars in the league I don't know if there is a single one I detest more then Harden - well maybe Embiid, he's up there.

As for the Kyrie scenario, that was a totally different scenario.  Kyrie was demanding a trade, Isaiah Thomas was was both banged up AND expecting a max contract.  It was a case of either dump Isaiah and get a perennial all-star back, give Isaiah a max contract (not gonna happen) or let Isaiah walk for nothing.

Firstly, Kemba's injury doesn't look nearly as bad as Isaiah's. 

Secondly Kemba is a 4-time All Star, is not 5'7", is not "arguably" the worse defender in the entire NBA, and has a reputation around the league as one of the best locker room guys out there, and is is secured under contract for more then a year - all of which contribute to him having a significantly higher trade value then Isaiah did at the time (i.e. next to none). 

Thirdly, the most valuable player we had to give up in the Kyrie trade was Jae Crowder - he was a nice player but was not a cornerstone, and was easily replaceable.  Going after Harden would mean making either Tatum, Brown or Smart available and there is no way I give up either of those crucial cornerstone players for a cancer like Harden.

[ozgod]

I wouldn't risk trading for him. It's clear he wants to be at the Nets with Kyrie and KD and what elite players want, they eventually get, even if it takes a couple of years. I'd much rather have JT and JB who want to be with us, and will grow with us. Definitely Danny should kick the tires to get an idea of what it might take to get Harden here but I think it would be a short sighted move. I know it worked for Toronto and Kawhi, but I'm less sold on Harden, especially if we had to ship a lot of long term talent the other way to get him.

[CelticsElite]

I wouldn't risk trading for him. It's clear he wants to be at the Nets with Kyrie and KD and what elite players want, they eventually get, even if it takes a couple of years. I'd much rather have JT and JB who want to be with us, and will grow with us. Definitely Danny should kick the tires to get an idea of what it might take to get Harden here but I think it would be a short sighted move. I know it worked for Toronto and Kawhi, but I'm less sold on Harden, especially if we had to ship a lot of long term talent the other way to get him.

agreed. Also found this interesting bit:

“ From a Celtics perspective, a Harden trade to the Sixers or another East contender might not be the worst thing in the world. He's actually played worse versus the C's than many other teams since he was drafted in 2009. Harden has averaged 22.4 points, 5.4 assists and 4.9 rebounds in 22 career games against Boston. The only team -- excluding the Rockets -- that Harden has a lower scoring average (21.5) against is the Los Angeles Clippers.

The Celtics have several good wing defenders -- including Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Marcus Smart -- capable of slowing down Harden.”

[ederson]

Anyone notice all the teams that harden wants to go to are in the east so far ? He’s dodging having to face LeBron and the other teams that keep beating him in the western playoffs


There’s 1 thing Ainge historically loved trading for and its disgruntled superstars that are tired of losing. If harden mentions he’s open to Boston, Ainge is going all in.

The problem with Harden is that Houston was winning but he laid eggs in the playoffs. Ainge wants competitors not prima donnas.  Say what you want about Kyrie (I personally have a lot of bad things to say) he was a gamer in college and in the playoffs with Cleveland.

I'm not exactly sure how true that is.  He certainly has gone cold at times, but he does that in the regular season as well.  Live by the 3, die by the 3.  But he never goes passive.  He has always continued playing his game.

I think the part in bold here i the problem lol

You will lose games this way sure ... But you want your scorer to get into rhythm , you want him to stay aggressive and take the shots he normaly does. Especialy in Houston's case where without Harden's points they could not win

[goCeltics]

James Harden is a top 5 league talent, not sure Jalen will get ever approach that level.

Boston can leverage the Hayward exception and the room under the hard cap to pick up a salary from Houston and offer them a trading partner in the same division as two teams that have probably tampered with their team and front office, Philly and Brooklyn.

I was thinking something like Harden, Gordon and Tucker for Brown, Smart, Langford, Both Williams and Edwards, using the exception to pick up Gordon and Tucker.

[Vermont Green]

Anyone notice all the teams that harden wants to go to are in the east so far ? He’s dodging having to face LeBron and the other teams that keep beating him in the western playoffs


There’s 1 thing Ainge historically loved trading for and its disgruntled superstars that are tired of losing. If harden mentions he’s open to Boston, Ainge is going all in.

The problem with Harden is that Houston was winning but he laid eggs in the playoffs. Ainge wants competitors not prima donnas.  Say what you want about Kyrie (I personally have a lot of bad things to say) he was a gamer in college and in the playoffs with Cleveland.

The Rockets were up 3-2 over Golden State in the 2018 WCF when Chris Paul got injured.  The Warriors went on to beat Cleveland in the finals.  I am not suggesting that Harden has an iron will to carry a team to the finals no matter what but to simply conclude that Harden wilts in the playoffs is an oversimplification at best.  He was a tweaked hamstring away from a likely championship.

No single player wins these days.  You need a collection of stars.  Harden doesn't think he will get that in Houston and he is right, at least for the next couple of seasons.  Don't get me wrong, I am not big on Harden.  He is too ball dominant.  Too much live and die by the 3.  But to me that summarizes as he is a top star with some flaws.  I don't question his competitiveness though and if he ends up on Philly teamed with Embiid and Harris (for example) or on the Nets, he will cause problems for the Celtics.

[Darth_Yoda]

I wouldn't risk trading for him. It's clear he wants to be at the Nets with Kyrie and KD and what elite players want, they eventually get, even if it takes a couple of years. I'd much rather have JT and JB who want to be with us, and will grow with us. Definitely Danny should kick the tires to get an idea of what it might take to get Harden here but I think it would be a short sighted move. I know it worked for Toronto and Kawhi, but I'm less sold on Harden, especially if we had to ship a lot of long term talent the other way to get him.

Harden is a foolishly short sighted move.

And he doesnt fit the teams style of basketball.

Also, was not the front office told to stay far away from him? I cannot see any interest from Boston unless the cost does NOT include any of Brown, Smart or Tatum.

If you can add Harden to Smart, Brown, Tatum and Thompson I think the team would do it then, but ONLY then.

[RJ87]

I wouldn't risk trading for him. It's clear he wants to be at the Nets with Kyrie and KD and what elite players want, they eventually get, even if it takes a couple of years. I'd much rather have JT and JB who want to be with us, and will grow with us. Definitely Danny should kick the tires to get an idea of what it might take to get Harden here but I think it would be a short sighted move. I know it worked for Toronto and Kawhi, but I'm less sold on Harden, especially if we had to ship a lot of long term talent the other way to get him.

Agreed. I recognize his talent, but I don't think he stays here beyond his current deal (and who's to say he doesn't end up forcing a trade away from here before the contract even ends?), especially if we're sacrificing a guy in Jaylen who's already signed long term.

[Moranis]

I wouldn't risk trading for him. It's clear he wants to be at the Nets with Kyrie and KD and what elite players want, they eventually get, even if it takes a couple of years. I'd much rather have JT and JB who want to be with us, and will grow with us. Definitely Danny should kick the tires to get an idea of what it might take to get Harden here but I think it would be a short sighted move. I know it worked for Toronto and Kawhi, but I'm less sold on Harden, especially if we had to ship a lot of long term talent the other way to get him.

Agreed. I recognize his talent, but I don't think he stays here beyond his current deal (and who's to say he doesn't end up forcing a trade away from here before the contract even ends?), especially if we're sacrificing a guy in Jaylen who's already signed long term.

5 years from now, do you realistically think Tatum and Brown are going to bring Boston a title?  If the answer is no, then I think you have to take the 2 year shot with Harden because a Harden, Tatum, Walker trio is absolutely good enough to win a title in the next 2 seasons. 

And who knows, maybe Harden stays past 2 years.  Some guys like where they end up and stay.  They don't always leave, especially if Boston is really good and a real championship threat (which I think it would be).

[RPGenerate]

I wouldn't risk trading for him. It's clear he wants to be at the Nets with Kyrie and KD and what elite players want, they eventually get, even if it takes a couple of years. I'd much rather have JT and JB who want to be with us, and will grow with us. Definitely Danny should kick the tires to get an idea of what it might take to get Harden here but I think it would be a short sighted move. I know it worked for Toronto and Kawhi, but I'm less sold on Harden, especially if we had to ship a lot of long term talent the other way to get him.

Agreed. I recognize his talent, but I don't think he stays here beyond his current deal (and who's to say he doesn't end up forcing a trade away from here before the contract even ends?), especially if we're sacrificing a guy in Jaylen who's already signed long term.

5 years from now, do you realistically think Tatum and Brown are going to bring Boston a title?  If the answer is no, then I think you have to take the 2 year shot with Harden because a Harden, Tatum, Walker trio is absolutely good enough to win a title in the next 2 seasons. 

And who knows, maybe Harden stays past 2 years.  Some guys like where they end up and stay.  They don't always leave, especially if Boston is really good and a real championship threat (which I think it would be).

I'll be honest, I don't think any team with Harden as the first option will ever win a title, so I already disagree with your premise.