Author Topic: Thereís Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason  (Read 8677 times)

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Re: Thereís Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #90 on: January 24, 2021, 12:06:30 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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So to me it looks like the tpe might be best used as part of a salary dump deal in which we get the player we want or we get a future pick or a swap.
Given the following:
-We need a scorer of the the bench
-Philly is $11.5M above the tax line
-Morey has a history of making deals at the deadline to get under the tax
-Philly has 4 unplayable (one is injured) guys making $15M combined - Scot, Poirier, Bradley and Ferguson
-Orlando has to get something for Fournier who they canít retain after the season because of salary constraints

I propose:
-the quartet above go from Philly to Orlando plus 2 second rounders from Philly
-Fournier comes to the celtics
-Carsen goes to Philly

Philly opens 2/3 roster spots to fill with vet min guys who will be available after the deadline.
We dump Carsen contract thatís guaranteed next season
Orlando saves a bit of $$ and gets 2 picks for a player they canít retain

I think this will be the framework of what might happen with the TPE . Without our TPE the deal as proposed can not be consumed because of roster spot constraints but with the tpe going to Orlando it can be executed as a series of trades.
It works for all 3 teams ....

It's an interesting idea and one that makes sense that I haven't heard before.

I believe that we will likely be looking to acquire a player that is somewhat 'unwanted', rather than giving up multiple 1sts/young prospects in order to get the exact guy we want. Danny already gave up two 2nds to acquire the TPE; that shouldn't be a constraint on a future trade, but if Danny can be an opportunist - rather than a pure buyer - he stands to come out on top in any deal...as long as that player is useful of course.

I should note, I don't think this is necessarily the ideal scenario personally - I would love to acquire a near-all star talent that fits in well with our core - I just don't know that Danny will go all-in with picks/players unless it is a slam dunk kind of deal.
This scenario is not ideal but to me it seems quite realistic. It also prevents us from potentially making a deal for the sake of not letting the tpe go to waste ... I would rather let it expire than make a lateral or a bad move and we lose future assets.
P.s. we can also S&T Fournier to his next team and get something back 🤷🏻‍♂️
Why in the world would Philly do that trade?  They get garbage while making us better.  They can trade those pieces for someone who could help actually them in the playoffs.  Morey made deals to get under the tax deadline because the Houston owner is cheap despite his rhetoric.
76rs owner is just as bad. Also it makes sense for them to push the repeaters tax a year further. I just felt it works. Itís not like we are going to become a true contender with Fournier
The Sixers owner isn't good but he isn't cheap like the Houston owner.  You just made a trade up so we can get Fournier while giving up nothing.  Orlando would laugh at Fournier for Edwards and the 15M TPE that they would get.  Philly would be stupid to give up those very tradeable assets to get Edwards and 3 vet minimum spots.  Those salaries are much more valuable.  They could just use those assets to trade for Fournier who might actually help them in the playoffs.  More likely targets for them would be George Hill, P. J. Tucker.       
« Last Edit: January 24, 2021, 01:33:04 AM by tazzmaniac »

Re: Thereís Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #91 on: January 24, 2021, 03:44:42 AM »

Offline Somebody

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I think the Aldridge ship has sailed. The guy has not been very good this year. 45% from the field, 30% from 3. Bad defensively. DeRozan doesn't do anything for us except take shots from guys I'd rather be taking them.

First priority should be a big wing 6'6 to 6'9 who can defend 3's and 4's and hit threes.

Barnes is an ideal target: 28 years old, 6'8 splits of 15.9/6.4/3.4 on 49/39 shooting and two more years after this one on his contract. He makes 22.2 this year which means getting him requires sending out something like 2.5 million to get under the hard cap, let alone the luxury tax.

Gordon is also an option: only 25 years, 6'8  with splits of 14.9/7.3/4.2 on 45/35 shooting with one more year after this one. he makes 18.14 this year which means you could potentially get him AND remain below the tax with a maneuver or 2.
I think these guys have been discussed in detail in other trades. The takeaway is that they would be useful to our team but they wonít come cheap. They will cost at least 2 unprotected picks plus a young player . Danny has never paid such prices for role players no matter how good they are.

I mean I really doubt that. Take Aaron Gordon for example. Robert Covington is a pretty close approximation. Gordon is younger and a better defender, but Covington is on a cheaper deal an a better shooter. He went for 1 mid first (pick #16), and one future first. But HOU also had to take back Ariza's 14 million dollar contract which was a negative value deal. So on the whole Covington turned out to be worth a little LESS than two firsts. Plus ORL would create a TPE exception by trading Gordon into Boston's TPE, and save themselves 18 million in a year with no fan attendance.

I kind of think Boston has a golden opportunity here. Look at teams out there that are buyers. MIL has no draft picks. BRK has no draft picks. MIA can't trade picks either. PHI isn't a fit for barnes/gordon (they nee a lead guard not a wing). LAL has no draft picks. LAC has no draft picks. The C's are in a unique situation where they are one of a few contenders who actually have the ability to trade picks, have some young players who might be worth a flyer, and can flat out save other teams money by absorbing guys.

So ya, I don't think the price will bas AS HIGH as some think. Obviously better players cost you stuff, but I'd rather the team spend assets and bring in a good player who will actually help then tinker around the edges with guys who probably won't. Too me if the price is a young guy (Langford/Nesmith/RWill/Pritchard/GWill) + a first which is about what I think it will be then do it.
In what world is Aaron Gordon a better defender than Robert Covington :o
Jaylen for All-NBA

Re: Thereís Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #92 on: January 24, 2021, 03:47:28 AM »

Offline Somebody

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I'll take Ross.
Yeah I like him - aggressive high volume three point shooter who's decent accuracy wise and can get really hot on offence while being a feisty wing defender on the other end of the court.
Jaylen for All-NBA

Re: Thereís Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #93 on: January 24, 2021, 08:35:03 AM »

Offline NKY fan

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So to me it looks like the tpe might be best used as part of a salary dump deal in which we get the player we want or we get a future pick or a swap.
Given the following:
-We need a scorer of the the bench
-Philly is $11.5M above the tax line
-Morey has a history of making deals at the deadline to get under the tax
-Philly has 4 unplayable (one is injured) guys making $15M combined - Scot, Poirier, Bradley and Ferguson
-Orlando has to get something for Fournier who they canít retain after the season because of salary constraints

I propose:
-the quartet above go from Philly to Orlando plus 2 second rounders from Philly
-Fournier comes to the celtics
-Carsen goes to Philly

Philly opens 2/3 roster spots to fill with vet min guys who will be available after the deadline.
We dump Carsen contract thatís guaranteed next season
Orlando saves a bit of $$ and gets 2 picks for a player they canít retain

I think this will be the framework of what might happen with the TPE . Without our TPE the deal as proposed can not be consumed because of roster spot constraints but with the tpe going to Orlando it can be executed as a series of trades.
It works for all 3 teams ....

It's an interesting idea and one that makes sense that I haven't heard before.

I believe that we will likely be looking to acquire a player that is somewhat 'unwanted', rather than giving up multiple 1sts/young prospects in order to get the exact guy we want. Danny already gave up two 2nds to acquire the TPE; that shouldn't be a constraint on a future trade, but if Danny can be an opportunist - rather than a pure buyer - he stands to come out on top in any deal...as long as that player is useful of course.

I should note, I don't think this is necessarily the ideal scenario personally - I would love to acquire a near-all star talent that fits in well with our core - I just don't know that Danny will go all-in with picks/players unless it is a slam dunk kind of deal.
This scenario is not ideal but to me it seems quite realistic. It also prevents us from potentially making a deal for the sake of not letting the tpe go to waste ... I would rather let it expire than make a lateral or a bad move and we lose future assets.
P.s. we can also S&T Fournier to his next team and get something back 🤷🏻‍♂️
Why in the world would Philly do that trade?  They get garbage while making us better.  They can trade those pieces for someone who could help actually them in the playoffs.  Morey made deals to get under the tax deadline because the Houston owner is cheap despite his rhetoric.
76rs owner is just as bad. Also it makes sense for them to push the repeaters tax a year further. I just felt it works. Itís not like we are going to become a true contender with Fournier
The Sixers owner isn't good but he isn't cheap like the Houston owner.  You just made a trade up so we can get Fournier while giving up nothing.  Orlando would laugh at Fournier for Edwards and the 15M TPE that they would get.  Philly would be stupid to give up those very tradeable assets to get Edwards and 3 vet minimum spots.  Those salaries are much more valuable.  They could just use those assets to trade for Fournier who might actually help them in the playoffs.  More likely targets for them would be George Hill, P. J. Tucker.     
If you are the sixers owner how happy are you to pay $15M to 4 guys that donít and wonít do anything for the team. Not only that but you are also assessed an additional $20M of luxury tax. Not only that but 3 years from now you might be assessed additional $30-40M of luxury tax on top of the normal luxury tax (given the contracts that you have). I donít think itís that unreasonable. I mean look at how concerned posters on here are with Wyc paying luxury tax lol.
Orlando gets cash and 2 second rounders from Philly not Carsen and TPE. they might ask for more from Philly and get one or two more second rounders it will be still worth it for Philly.
Im not saying itís an amazing trade but itís a trade that optimizes different goals and strategies that teams have and also no team is being ripped off.
Iím not proposing a trade where we get a borderline all star and send a top 20 protected draft pick.

Re: Thereís Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #94 on: January 24, 2021, 12:06:22 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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So to me it looks like the tpe might be best used as part of a salary dump deal in which we get the player we want or we get a future pick or a swap.
Given the following:
-We need a scorer of the the bench
-Philly is $11.5M above the tax line
-Morey has a history of making deals at the deadline to get under the tax
-Philly has 4 unplayable (one is injured) guys making $15M combined - Scot, Poirier, Bradley and Ferguson
-Orlando has to get something for Fournier who they canít retain after the season because of salary constraints

I propose:
-the quartet above go from Philly to Orlando plus 2 second rounders from Philly
-Fournier comes to the celtics
-Carsen goes to Philly

Philly opens 2/3 roster spots to fill with vet min guys who will be available after the deadline.
We dump Carsen contract thatís guaranteed next season
Orlando saves a bit of $$ and gets 2 picks for a player they canít retain

I think this will be the framework of what might happen with the TPE . Without our TPE the deal as proposed can not be consumed because of roster spot constraints but with the tpe going to Orlando it can be executed as a series of trades.
It works for all 3 teams ....

It's an interesting idea and one that makes sense that I haven't heard before.

I believe that we will likely be looking to acquire a player that is somewhat 'unwanted', rather than giving up multiple 1sts/young prospects in order to get the exact guy we want. Danny already gave up two 2nds to acquire the TPE; that shouldn't be a constraint on a future trade, but if Danny can be an opportunist - rather than a pure buyer - he stands to come out on top in any deal...as long as that player is useful of course.

I should note, I don't think this is necessarily the ideal scenario personally - I would love to acquire a near-all star talent that fits in well with our core - I just don't know that Danny will go all-in with picks/players unless it is a slam dunk kind of deal.
This scenario is not ideal but to me it seems quite realistic. It also prevents us from potentially making a deal for the sake of not letting the tpe go to waste ... I would rather let it expire than make a lateral or a bad move and we lose future assets.
P.s. we can also S&T Fournier to his next team and get something back 🤷🏻‍♂️
Why in the world would Philly do that trade?  They get garbage while making us better.  They can trade those pieces for someone who could help actually them in the playoffs.  Morey made deals to get under the tax deadline because the Houston owner is cheap despite his rhetoric.
76rs owner is just as bad. Also it makes sense for them to push the repeaters tax a year further. I just felt it works. Itís not like we are going to become a true contender with Fournier
The Sixers owner isn't good but he isn't cheap like the Houston owner.  You just made a trade up so we can get Fournier while giving up nothing.  Orlando would laugh at Fournier for Edwards and the 15M TPE that they would get.  Philly would be stupid to give up those very tradeable assets to get Edwards and 3 vet minimum spots.  Those salaries are much more valuable.  They could just use those assets to trade for Fournier who might actually help them in the playoffs.  More likely targets for them would be George Hill, P. J. Tucker.     
If you are the sixers owner how happy are you to pay $15M to 4 guys that donít and wonít do anything for the team. Not only that but you are also assessed an additional $20M of luxury tax. Not only that but 3 years from now you might be assessed additional $30-40M of luxury tax on top of the normal luxury tax (given the contracts that you have). I donít think itís that unreasonable. I mean look at how concerned posters on here are with Wyc paying luxury tax lol.
Orlando gets cash and 2 second rounders from Philly not Carsen and TPE. they might ask for more from Philly and get one or two more second rounders it will be still worth it for Philly.
Im not saying itís an amazing trade but itís a trade that optimizes different goals and strategies that teams have and also no team is being ripped off.
Iím not proposing a trade where we get a borderline all star and send a top 20 protected draft pick.
The Sixers owner committed to paying the luxury tax when Harris was signed to a 5 year max. 
Your trade doesn't get them below the luxury tax line so doesn't affect future repeater tax scenarios. 

Fournier isn't a star but he's easily the best player in the proposed trade and all we're giving up to get him is Edwards.  That's nonsense.  Then you add the Sixers part which is even more nonsense.  Morey wasn't brought in to pinch pennies.  He was brought in to compete for championships.  As I said before, he'll use those assets to acquire role players like Hill and Tucker who might actually help them in the playoffs.

As for Orlando, they're in the playoff hunt so they're unlikely to trade Fournier unless they fall out of it or get a significantly better offer. 

Re: Thereís Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #95 on: January 24, 2021, 12:32:50 PM »

Offline NKY fan

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So to me it looks like the tpe might be best used as part of a salary dump deal in which we get the player we want or we get a future pick or a swap.
Given the following:
-We need a scorer of the the bench
-Philly is $11.5M above the tax line
-Morey has a history of making deals at the deadline to get under the tax
-Philly has 4 unplayable (one is injured) guys making $15M combined - Scot, Poirier, Bradley and Ferguson
-Orlando has to get something for Fournier who they canít retain after the season because of salary constraints

I propose:
-the quartet above go from Philly to Orlando plus 2 second rounders from Philly
-Fournier comes to the celtics
-Carsen goes to Philly

Philly opens 2/3 roster spots to fill with vet min guys who will be available after the deadline.
We dump Carsen contract thatís guaranteed next season
Orlando saves a bit of $$ and gets 2 picks for a player they canít retain

I think this will be the framework of what might happen with the TPE . Without our TPE the deal as proposed can not be consumed because of roster spot constraints but with the tpe going to Orlando it can be executed as a series of trades.
It works for all 3 teams ....

It's an interesting idea and one that makes sense that I haven't heard before.

I believe that we will likely be looking to acquire a player that is somewhat 'unwanted', rather than giving up multiple 1sts/young prospects in order to get the exact guy we want. Danny already gave up two 2nds to acquire the TPE; that shouldn't be a constraint on a future trade, but if Danny can be an opportunist - rather than a pure buyer - he stands to come out on top in any deal...as long as that player is useful of course.

I should note, I don't think this is necessarily the ideal scenario personally - I would love to acquire a near-all star talent that fits in well with our core - I just don't know that Danny will go all-in with picks/players unless it is a slam dunk kind of deal.
This scenario is not ideal but to me it seems quite realistic. It also prevents us from potentially making a deal for the sake of not letting the tpe go to waste ... I would rather let it expire than make a lateral or a bad move and we lose future assets.
P.s. we can also S&T Fournier to his next team and get something back 🤷🏻‍♂️
Why in the world would Philly do that trade?  They get garbage while making us better.  They can trade those pieces for someone who could help actually them in the playoffs.  Morey made deals to get under the tax deadline because the Houston owner is cheap despite his rhetoric.
76rs owner is just as bad. Also it makes sense for them to push the repeaters tax a year further. I just felt it works. Itís not like we are going to become a true contender with Fournier
The Sixers owner isn't good but he isn't cheap like the Houston owner.  You just made a trade up so we can get Fournier while giving up nothing.  Orlando would laugh at Fournier for Edwards and the 15M TPE that they would get.  Philly would be stupid to give up those very tradeable assets to get Edwards and 3 vet minimum spots.  Those salaries are much more valuable.  They could just use those assets to trade for Fournier who might actually help them in the playoffs.  More likely targets for them would be George Hill, P. J. Tucker.     
If you are the sixers owner how happy are you to pay $15M to 4 guys that donít and wonít do anything for the team. Not only that but you are also assessed an additional $20M of luxury tax. Not only that but 3 years from now you might be assessed additional $30-40M of luxury tax on top of the normal luxury tax (given the contracts that you have). I donít think itís that unreasonable. I mean look at how concerned posters on here are with Wyc paying luxury tax lol.
Orlando gets cash and 2 second rounders from Philly not Carsen and TPE. they might ask for more from Philly and get one or two more second rounders it will be still worth it for Philly.
Im not saying itís an amazing trade but itís a trade that optimizes different goals and strategies that teams have and also no team is being ripped off.
Iím not proposing a trade where we get a borderline all star and send a top 20 protected draft pick.
The Sixers owner committed to paying the luxury tax when Harris was signed to a 5 year max. 
Your trade doesn't get them below the luxury tax line so doesn't affect future repeater tax scenarios. 

Fournier isn't a star but he's easily the best player in the proposed trade and all we're giving up to get him is Edwards.  That's nonsense.  Then you add the Sixers part which is even more nonsense.  Morey wasn't brought in to pinch pennies.  He was brought in to compete for championships.  As I said before, he'll use those assets to acquire role players like Hill and Tucker who might actually help them in the playoffs.

As for Orlando, they're in the playoff hunt so they're unlikely to trade Fournier unless they fall out of it or get a significantly better offer.
You misread the proposal to think that sixers are not going below the tax after it.
Every owner says they are willing to pay the tax but pay it smartly not waste $35M on fringe players.
Also you missed the point of optimizing strategies to have all three teams happy .. yes we do get the best player in the deal but itís not like we are getting a star. We are getting an average at best wing. Thatís what the tpe was for to take advantage of and potentially optimizing counterparty strategies.
If you donít get the logic behind the trade - too bad 🤷🏻‍♂️

Re: Thereís Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #96 on: January 24, 2021, 12:43:17 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

  • Paul Silas
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  • Posts: 6384
  • Tommy Points: 476
So to me it looks like the tpe might be best used as part of a salary dump deal in which we get the player we want or we get a future pick or a swap.
Given the following:
-We need a scorer of the the bench
-Philly is $11.5M above the tax line
-Morey has a history of making deals at the deadline to get under the tax
-Philly has 4 unplayable (one is injured) guys making $15M combined - Scot, Poirier, Bradley and Ferguson
-Orlando has to get something for Fournier who they canít retain after the season because of salary constraints

I propose:
-the quartet above go from Philly to Orlando plus 2 second rounders from Philly
-Fournier comes to the celtics
-Carsen goes to Philly

Philly opens 2/3 roster spots to fill with vet min guys who will be available after the deadline.
We dump Carsen contract thatís guaranteed next season
Orlando saves a bit of $$ and gets 2 picks for a player they canít retain

I think this will be the framework of what might happen with the TPE . Without our TPE the deal as proposed can not be consumed because of roster spot constraints but with the tpe going to Orlando it can be executed as a series of trades.
It works for all 3 teams ....

It's an interesting idea and one that makes sense that I haven't heard before.

I believe that we will likely be looking to acquire a player that is somewhat 'unwanted', rather than giving up multiple 1sts/young prospects in order to get the exact guy we want. Danny already gave up two 2nds to acquire the TPE; that shouldn't be a constraint on a future trade, but if Danny can be an opportunist - rather than a pure buyer - he stands to come out on top in any deal...as long as that player is useful of course.

I should note, I don't think this is necessarily the ideal scenario personally - I would love to acquire a near-all star talent that fits in well with our core - I just don't know that Danny will go all-in with picks/players unless it is a slam dunk kind of deal.
This scenario is not ideal but to me it seems quite realistic. It also prevents us from potentially making a deal for the sake of not letting the tpe go to waste ... I would rather let it expire than make a lateral or a bad move and we lose future assets.
P.s. we can also S&T Fournier to his next team and get something back 🤷🏻‍♂️
Why in the world would Philly do that trade?  They get garbage while making us better.  They can trade those pieces for someone who could help actually them in the playoffs.  Morey made deals to get under the tax deadline because the Houston owner is cheap despite his rhetoric.
76rs owner is just as bad. Also it makes sense for them to push the repeaters tax a year further. I just felt it works. Itís not like we are going to become a true contender with Fournier
The Sixers owner isn't good but he isn't cheap like the Houston owner.  You just made a trade up so we can get Fournier while giving up nothing.  Orlando would laugh at Fournier for Edwards and the 15M TPE that they would get.  Philly would be stupid to give up those very tradeable assets to get Edwards and 3 vet minimum spots.  Those salaries are much more valuable.  They could just use those assets to trade for Fournier who might actually help them in the playoffs.  More likely targets for them would be George Hill, P. J. Tucker.     
If you are the sixers owner how happy are you to pay $15M to 4 guys that donít and wonít do anything for the team. Not only that but you are also assessed an additional $20M of luxury tax. Not only that but 3 years from now you might be assessed additional $30-40M of luxury tax on top of the normal luxury tax (given the contracts that you have). I donít think itís that unreasonable. I mean look at how concerned posters on here are with Wyc paying luxury tax lol.
Orlando gets cash and 2 second rounders from Philly not Carsen and TPE. they might ask for more from Philly and get one or two more second rounders it will be still worth it for Philly.
Im not saying itís an amazing trade but itís a trade that optimizes different goals and strategies that teams have and also no team is being ripped off.
Iím not proposing a trade where we get a borderline all star and send a top 20 protected draft pick.
The Sixers owner committed to paying the luxury tax when Harris was signed to a 5 year max. 
Your trade doesn't get them below the luxury tax line so doesn't affect future repeater tax scenarios. 

Fournier isn't a star but he's easily the best player in the proposed trade and all we're giving up to get him is Edwards.  That's nonsense.  Then you add the Sixers part which is even more nonsense.  Morey wasn't brought in to pinch pennies.  He was brought in to compete for championships.  As I said before, he'll use those assets to acquire role players like Hill and Tucker who might actually help them in the playoffs.

As for Orlando, they're in the playoff hunt so they're unlikely to trade Fournier unless they fall out of it or get a significantly better offer.
You misread the proposal to think that sixers are not going below the tax after it.
Every owner says they are willing to pay the tax but pay it smartly not waste $35M on fringe players.
Also you missed the point of optimizing strategies to have all three teams happy .. yes we do get the best player in the deal but itís not like we are getting a star. We are getting an average at best wing. Thatís what the tpe was for to take advantage of and potentially optimizing counterparty strategies.
If you donít get the logic behind the trade - too bad 🤷🏻‍♂️
That's cause there is no logic.  Your green colored goggles have clearly distorted what would make other teams happy.

Re: Thereís Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #97 on: January 24, 2021, 01:40:25 PM »

Offline NKY fan

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2210
  • Tommy Points: 101
So to me it looks like the tpe might be best used as part of a salary dump deal in which we get the player we want or we get a future pick or a swap.
Given the following:
-We need a scorer of the the bench
-Philly is $11.5M above the tax line
-Morey has a history of making deals at the deadline to get under the tax
-Philly has 4 unplayable (one is injured) guys making $15M combined - Scot, Poirier, Bradley and Ferguson
-Orlando has to get something for Fournier who they canít retain after the season because of salary constraints

I propose:
-the quartet above go from Philly to Orlando plus 2 second rounders from Philly
-Fournier comes to the celtics
-Carsen goes to Philly

Philly opens 2/3 roster spots to fill with vet min guys who will be available after the deadline.
We dump Carsen contract thatís guaranteed next season
Orlando saves a bit of $$ and gets 2 picks for a player they canít retain

I think this will be the framework of what might happen with the TPE . Without our TPE the deal as proposed can not be consumed because of roster spot constraints but with the tpe going to Orlando it can be executed as a series of trades.
It works for all 3 teams ....

It's an interesting idea and one that makes sense that I haven't heard before.

I believe that we will likely be looking to acquire a player that is somewhat 'unwanted', rather than giving up multiple 1sts/young prospects in order to get the exact guy we want. Danny already gave up two 2nds to acquire the TPE; that shouldn't be a constraint on a future trade, but if Danny can be an opportunist - rather than a pure buyer - he stands to come out on top in any deal...as long as that player is useful of course.

I should note, I don't think this is necessarily the ideal scenario personally - I would love to acquire a near-all star talent that fits in well with our core - I just don't know that Danny will go all-in with picks/players unless it is a slam dunk kind of deal.
This scenario is not ideal but to me it seems quite realistic. It also prevents us from potentially making a deal for the sake of not letting the tpe go to waste ... I would rather let it expire than make a lateral or a bad move and we lose future assets.
P.s. we can also S&T Fournier to his next team and get something back 🤷🏻‍♂️
Why in the world would Philly do that trade?  They get garbage while making us better.  They can trade those pieces for someone who could help actually them in the playoffs.  Morey made deals to get under the tax deadline because the Houston owner is cheap despite his rhetoric.
76rs owner is just as bad. Also it makes sense for them to push the repeaters tax a year further. I just felt it works. Itís not like we are going to become a true contender with Fournier
The Sixers owner isn't good but he isn't cheap like the Houston owner.  You just made a trade up so we can get Fournier while giving up nothing.  Orlando would laugh at Fournier for Edwards and the 15M TPE that they would get.  Philly would be stupid to give up those very tradeable assets to get Edwards and 3 vet minimum spots.  Those salaries are much more valuable.  They could just use those assets to trade for Fournier who might actually help them in the playoffs.  More likely targets for them would be George Hill, P. J. Tucker.     
If you are the sixers owner how happy are you to pay $15M to 4 guys that donít and wonít do anything for the team. Not only that but you are also assessed an additional $20M of luxury tax. Not only that but 3 years from now you might be assessed additional $30-40M of luxury tax on top of the normal luxury tax (given the contracts that you have). I donít think itís that unreasonable. I mean look at how concerned posters on here are with Wyc paying luxury tax lol.
Orlando gets cash and 2 second rounders from Philly not Carsen and TPE. they might ask for more from Philly and get one or two more second rounders it will be still worth it for Philly.
Im not saying itís an amazing trade but itís a trade that optimizes different goals and strategies that teams have and also no team is being ripped off.
Iím not proposing a trade where we get a borderline all star and send a top 20 protected draft pick.
The Sixers owner committed to paying the luxury tax when Harris was signed to a 5 year max. 
Your trade doesn't get them below the luxury tax line so doesn't affect future repeater tax scenarios. 

Fournier isn't a star but he's easily the best player in the proposed trade and all we're giving up to get him is Edwards.  That's nonsense.  Then you add the Sixers part which is even more nonsense.  Morey wasn't brought in to pinch pennies.  He was brought in to compete for championships.  As I said before, he'll use those assets to acquire role players like Hill and Tucker who might actually help them in the playoffs.

As for Orlando, they're in the playoff hunt so they're unlikely to trade Fournier unless they fall out of it or get a significantly better offer.
You misread the proposal to think that sixers are not going below the tax after it.
Every owner says they are willing to pay the tax but pay it smartly not waste $35M on fringe players.
Also you missed the point of optimizing strategies to have all three teams happy .. yes we do get the best player in the deal but itís not like we are getting a star. We are getting an average at best wing. Thatís what the tpe was for to take advantage of and potentially optimizing counterparty strategies.
If you donít get the logic behind the trade - too bad 🤷🏻‍♂️
That's cause there is no logic.  Your green colored goggles have clearly distorted what would make other teams happy.
If you have done research on Orlando and Philly front offices you would know the following:
Orlando never take risks. They donít do fancy trades because they are worried they will mess them up. I looked on OPP forum and all the fans there were saying they need to blow it up but they wonít because it is not their style. They also donít want to have bad teams and lose on revenue. Fans there want to get anything (something ) for Fournier who is leaving ... so getting some savings and 2-3 second rounders for him is exactly the type of trade magic do.
Philly dumped Horford contract for an overpaid Green. Their ownership was worried about the tax bill now and in the future. Other wise they would not give away a potentially high draft pick in 2025 when embiid might be out of the league and Simmons gone. Do you think thatís the type of owner that is happy just paying $20-30M of luxury tax? Note that if they kept Horford they would have been able to send him to rockets along with 4 draft picks and 4 swaps plus Maxey and Thuibule in exchange for Harden.
So based on the above research and that Danny is stingy with his picks ( he already paid 2 picks for the tpe ) ... the proposed trade could make all teams happy. Again no team is being ripped off
« Last Edit: January 24, 2021, 02:22:37 PM by NKY fan »

Re: Thereís Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #98 on: January 24, 2021, 02:07:55 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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I think the Aldridge ship has sailed. The guy has not been very good this year. 45% from the field, 30% from 3. Bad defensively. DeRozan doesn't do anything for us except take shots from guys I'd rather be taking them.

First priority should be a big wing 6'6 to 6'9 who can defend 3's and 4's and hit threes.

Barnes is an ideal target: 28 years old, 6'8 splits of 15.9/6.4/3.4 on 49/39 shooting and two more years after this one on his contract. He makes 22.2 this year which means getting him requires sending out something like 2.5 million to get under the hard cap, let alone the luxury tax.

Gordon is also an option: only 25 years, 6'8  with splits of 14.9/7.3/4.2 on 45/35 shooting with one more year after this one. he makes 18.14 this year which means you could potentially get him AND remain below the tax with a maneuver or 2.
I think these guys have been discussed in detail in other trades. The takeaway is that they would be useful to our team but they wonít come cheap. They will cost at least 2 unprotected picks plus a young player . Danny has never paid such prices for role players no matter how good they are.

I mean I really doubt that. Take Aaron Gordon for example. Robert Covington is a pretty close approximation. Gordon is younger and a better defender, but Covington is on a cheaper deal an a better shooter. He went for 1 mid first (pick #16), and one future first. But HOU also had to take back Ariza's 14 million dollar contract which was a negative value deal. So on the whole Covington turned out to be worth a little LESS than two firsts. Plus ORL would create a TPE exception by trading Gordon into Boston's TPE, and save themselves 18 million in a year with no fan attendance.

I kind of think Boston has a golden opportunity here. Look at teams out there that are buyers. MIL has no draft picks. BRK has no draft picks. MIA can't trade picks either. PHI isn't a fit for barnes/gordon (they nee a lead guard not a wing). LAL has no draft picks. LAC has no draft picks. The C's are in a unique situation where they are one of a few contenders who actually have the ability to trade picks, have some young players who might be worth a flyer, and can flat out save other teams money by absorbing guys.

So ya, I don't think the price will bas AS HIGH as some think. Obviously better players cost you stuff, but I'd rather the team spend assets and bring in a good player who will actually help then tinker around the edges with guys who probably won't. Too me if the price is a young guy (Langford/Nesmith/RWill/Pritchard/GWill) + a first which is about what I think it will be then do it.
In what world is Aaron Gordon a better defender than Robert Covington :o

Its debatable I think. Robert Covington is a great off ball defender, but he gets absolutely roasted every year in the playoffs against any wing with any on ball ability. I'd rather have somebody like Gordon who isn't the same level off ball play but doesn't get roasted on ball either, especially in the playoffs. But that's just one man's opinion.

But if you believe Covington is a better defender than fine, that only proves the point I am trying to make which is Gordon is pretty get able for less than people think. Or at least might be.