Author Topic: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason  (Read 5042 times)

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Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2021, 03:09:01 PM »

Online Phantom255x

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Idk if this has been mentioned, but in addition to all the other names talked about (Terrence Ross, Vucevic, Harrison Barnes, Aaron Gordon, Draymond), could DeRozan be an option with the TPE? Doubt he'll cost much in trade value given he's an expiring and he could be moved at the deadline.
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Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2021, 03:24:27 PM »

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Idk if this has been mentioned, but in addition to all the other names talked about (Terrence Ross, Vucevic, Harrison Barnes, Aaron Gordon, Draymond), could DeRozan be an option with the TPE? Doubt he'll cost much in trade value given he's an expiring and he could be moved at the deadline.

I think the numbers work:  his salary $27.7M  -  the TPE $28.5M.  The question would be is it worth it to use the TPE for maybe only one year of DeRozan?  I like him as our starting SF, along with the Js.
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Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #47 on: January 04, 2021, 03:35:32 PM »

Offline RJ87

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I have a sneaky suspicion about Kyle Lowry and our TPE 🤔 We could be watching a trade deadline candidate tonight

He makes too much money for our TPE.

He doesn't actually. We would just need to send out $$ to stay under the hard cap but that's easy.

He does. His salary is $30m, our TPE is for $28.5m.

Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #48 on: January 04, 2021, 03:38:46 PM »

Online mmmmm

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Perhaps something is being missed, but why can’t we just exchange the TPE for someone on an expiring contract close to $28 million (e.g., Otto Porter) and then as soon as possible (60 days or whatever the new “Dec. 15th” is):

Flip that player + Langford + Nesmith + whatever filler it takes + Two first-round picks for Harden (or a disgruntled superstar of some sort forcing a trade, if not Harden...hell, would love to see the Bucks collapse and Giannis force a trade at the deadline...have to think he’d force his way to Miami or Boston). That’s a a combination of assets the receiving team can spin as “four first-rounders” to save face, and we add the last piece of the puzzle we need to win the title in 2021.

Sure, we can’t immediately combine the TPE with other assets, but it seems like as long as we can get someone to give us a player on an expiring contract that is close to the TPE (or two players that almost add up to the TPE combined), we can effectively trade the TPE plus assets after a waiting period in exchange for someone who’s better than us never getting the TPE and standing pat...

I’ve been one of Danny’s biggest doubters, but I’ve got a good feeling he’s about to blow our minds with another epic trade and there will be some serious mea culpas from us Danny doubters...
The team is hardcapped. The can't use the full TPE this year. Just $22 million or so.

But, they have made the decision not to go into the luxury tax this year to get rid of the repeater luxury tax penalty that would have happen had they stayed over the luxury tax line.

That now gets reset saving the team tens to hundreds of millions of dollars. That luxury tax line is $6 million less than the apron they are hardcapped at. Which means the Celtics will only use a little under $16 million of that TPE this season, if they use any at all. And this all assumed the roster is completed. If they add or get rid of any salary, that would then affect how much of $$16 million they could use.

Specifically, we have 15.7M of room under the tax threshold.   If we did no other move, we could receive a player making up to that much without going over the tax threshold.

However, any trade is likely to involve something going in the other direction.  If we send any player contract out (whether to the same team or a different team) that effectively would increase the room under the threshold and increase the size of the player salary we could receive without going over the threshold.

You do have to record the outgoing players as a separate trade from the one that receives a player into the TPE, since you cannot combine salaries for matching purposes.

So you record one transaction as using the TPE to receive your main target in exchange for draft picks.

And you record separate transaction(s) of players going out in exchange for less salary (or non-vesting protected 2nd rounders) in order to reduce your salary to fit under the threshold.

It is the latter part that both makes it possible to bring in a player making a lot more than the 15.7M, like for example Barnes at 22.2M, but also adds complexity because the other team(s) you are sending the outgoing players need to be able to receive them into roster slots (as well as want them).

To continue the Barnes example, we would have to send out a net difference of 6.5M to make that work.   We can't easily do that without sending out at least 2 and more probably 3 players.   Which means the other team needs to have empty roster spots or send someone back to us who makes enough less than we sent out to keep the net difference intact.

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Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #49 on: January 04, 2021, 04:17:18 PM »

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Idk if this has been mentioned, but in addition to all the other names talked about (Terrence Ross, Vucevic, Harrison Barnes, Aaron Gordon, Draymond), could DeRozan be an option with the TPE? Doubt he'll cost much in trade value given he's an expiring and he could be moved at the deadline.

I think the numbers work:  his salary $27.7M  -  the TPE $28.5M.  The question would be is it worth it to use the TPE for maybe only one year of DeRozan?  I like him as our starting SF, along with the Js.
It’s absolutely worth it as Derozan is a very good player and teammate . I think popovich would want more than Danny is willing to send out though unless Spurs gave no chance of top 10 seed.

Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #50 on: January 04, 2021, 04:21:50 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Idk if this has been mentioned, but in addition to all the other names talked about (Terrence Ross, Vucevic, Harrison Barnes, Aaron Gordon, Draymond), could DeRozan be an option with the TPE? Doubt he'll cost much in trade value given he's an expiring and he could be moved at the deadline.
That would be awesome, he’s taken his passing and shooting to another level. But he’s an expiring, so might not be our target
Fire Brad

Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #51 on: January 04, 2021, 05:10:54 PM »

Offline BruceBanner18

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I have a sneaky suspicion about Kyle Lowry and our TPE 🤔 We could be watching a trade deadline candidate tonight

He makes too much money for our TPE.

He doesn't actually. We would just need to send out $$ to stay under the hard cap but that's easy.

He does. His salary is $30m, our TPE is for $28.5m.

Then I was led astray! tradenba needs to update their algorithm 😉

Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #52 on: January 04, 2021, 06:05:09 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Perhaps something is being missed, but why can’t we just exchange the TPE for someone on an expiring contract close to $28 million (e.g., Otto Porter) and then as soon as possible (60 days or whatever the new “Dec. 15th” is):

Flip that player + Langford + Nesmith + whatever filler it takes + Two first-round picks for Harden (or a disgruntled superstar of some sort forcing a trade, if not Harden...hell, would love to see the Bucks collapse and Giannis force a trade at the deadline...have to think he’d force his way to Miami or Boston). That’s a a combination of assets the receiving team can spin as “four first-rounders” to save face, and we add the last piece of the puzzle we need to win the title in 2021.

Sure, we can’t immediately combine the TPE with other assets, but it seems like as long as we can get someone to give us a player on an expiring contract that is close to the TPE (or two players that almost add up to the TPE combined), we can effectively trade the TPE plus assets after a waiting period in exchange for someone who’s better than us never getting the TPE and standing pat...

I’ve been one of Danny’s biggest doubters, but I’ve got a good feeling he’s about to blow our minds with another epic trade and there will be some serious mea culpas from us Danny doubters...
The team is hardcapped. The can't use the full TPE this year. Just $22 million or so.

But, they have made the decision not to go into the luxury tax this year to get rid of the repeater luxury tax penalty that would have happen had they stayed over the luxury tax line.

That now gets reset saving the team tens to hundreds of millions of dollars. That luxury tax line is $6 million less than the apron they are hardcapped at. Which means the Celtics will only use a little under $16 million of that TPE this season, if they use any at all. And this all assumed the roster is completed. If they add or get rid of any salary, that would then affect how much of $$16 million they could use.

Specifically, we have 15.7M of room under the tax threshold.   If we did no other move, we could receive a player making up to that much without going over the tax threshold.

However, any trade is likely to involve something going in the other direction.  If we send any player contract out (whether to the same team or a different team) that effectively would increase the room under the threshold and increase the size of the player salary we could receive without going over the threshold.

You do have to record the outgoing players as a separate trade from the one that receives a player into the TPE, since you cannot combine salaries for matching purposes.

So you record one transaction as using the TPE to receive your main target in exchange for draft picks.

And you record separate transaction(s) of players going out in exchange for less salary (or non-vesting protected 2nd rounders) in order to reduce your salary to fit under the threshold.

It is the latter part that both makes it possible to bring in a player making a lot more than the 15.7M, like for example Barnes at 22.2M, but also adds complexity because the other team(s) you are sending the outgoing players need to be able to receive them into roster slots (as well as want them).

To continue the Barnes example, we would have to send out a net difference of 6.5M to make that work.   We can't easily do that without sending out at least 2 and more probably 3 players.   Which means the other team needs to have empty roster spots or send someone back to us who makes enough less than we sent out to keep the net difference intact.

Thanks mmmmm - this was helpful in terms of my seemingly unending quest to understand how to trade using the TPE. 

The question that arises in your scenario is that with the 2nd trade don't we need to  (nearly) match salaries returning to what we're sending out and wouldn't that put the C"s over the threshold? 

Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #53 on: January 05, 2021, 09:31:05 AM »

Online mmmmm

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Perhaps something is being missed, but why can’t we just exchange the TPE for someone on an expiring contract close to $28 million (e.g., Otto Porter) and then as soon as possible (60 days or whatever the new “Dec. 15th” is):

Flip that player + Langford + Nesmith + whatever filler it takes + Two first-round picks for Harden (or a disgruntled superstar of some sort forcing a trade, if not Harden...hell, would love to see the Bucks collapse and Giannis force a trade at the deadline...have to think he’d force his way to Miami or Boston). That’s a a combination of assets the receiving team can spin as “four first-rounders” to save face, and we add the last piece of the puzzle we need to win the title in 2021.

Sure, we can’t immediately combine the TPE with other assets, but it seems like as long as we can get someone to give us a player on an expiring contract that is close to the TPE (or two players that almost add up to the TPE combined), we can effectively trade the TPE plus assets after a waiting period in exchange for someone who’s better than us never getting the TPE and standing pat...

I’ve been one of Danny’s biggest doubters, but I’ve got a good feeling he’s about to blow our minds with another epic trade and there will be some serious mea culpas from us Danny doubters...
The team is hardcapped. The can't use the full TPE this year. Just $22 million or so.

But, they have made the decision not to go into the luxury tax this year to get rid of the repeater luxury tax penalty that would have happen had they stayed over the luxury tax line.

That now gets reset saving the team tens to hundreds of millions of dollars. That luxury tax line is $6 million less than the apron they are hardcapped at. Which means the Celtics will only use a little under $16 million of that TPE this season, if they use any at all. And this all assumed the roster is completed. If they add or get rid of any salary, that would then affect how much of $$16 million they could use.

Specifically, we have 15.7M of room under the tax threshold.   If we did no other move, we could receive a player making up to that much without going over the tax threshold.

However, any trade is likely to involve something going in the other direction.  If we send any player contract out (whether to the same team or a different team) that effectively would increase the room under the threshold and increase the size of the player salary we could receive without going over the threshold.

You do have to record the outgoing players as a separate trade from the one that receives a player into the TPE, since you cannot combine salaries for matching purposes.

So you record one transaction as using the TPE to receive your main target in exchange for draft picks.

And you record separate transaction(s) of players going out in exchange for less salary (or non-vesting protected 2nd rounders) in order to reduce your salary to fit under the threshold.

It is the latter part that both makes it possible to bring in a player making a lot more than the 15.7M, like for example Barnes at 22.2M, but also adds complexity because the other team(s) you are sending the outgoing players need to be able to receive them into roster slots (as well as want them).

To continue the Barnes example, we would have to send out a net difference of 6.5M to make that work.   We can't easily do that without sending out at least 2 and more probably 3 players.   Which means the other team needs to have empty roster spots or send someone back to us who makes enough less than we sent out to keep the net difference intact.

Thanks mmmmm - this was helpful in terms of my seemingly unending quest to understand how to trade using the TPE. 

The question that arises in your scenario is that with the 2nd trade don't we need to  (nearly) match salaries returning to what we're sending out and wouldn't that put the C"s over the threshold?

No.  The 'match' concept is all about sending out a minimum relative to what you are receiving in.   The idea is to prevent teams from receiving too much salary in trade.  Ideally, you can send out some salary in a trade and take _nothing_ back (other than a draft pick since something has to be exchanged).

Also, remember that each team can record the transactions as single or multiple separate transactions to make them conform to the rules.

So we would record these as separate transactions (because the TPE can't be combined with other outgoing salary), using the TPE in one transaction to receive all the incoming salary and the other transaction(s) to send all of our outgoing salary (taking nothing back except non-vesting pick(s)).

Meanwhile, the other team could record it all as one single transaction, exchanging their expensive outgoing player being exchanged for the minimal pile of salary we sent to them.  Since their incoming is well under their outgoing, it is a legal single trade and creates a new TPE for them (if they are over the cap).
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #54 on: January 05, 2021, 10:00:26 AM »

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Even when Kemba returns, we need a wing. It’s unfortunate that so much of our depth is in pure bigs (TT, Theis, RW) and pure PGs (Kemba, Teague, PP, and even Waters). Meanwhile, our 2-4 is fairly thin with Smart, Brown, Tatum, Ojeleye and GWill, with the latter 2 not always looking like NBA players out there.

If we could get a reliable wing, that’d be HUGE for the team. Someone mentioned Derozan and assuming he’s ok coming off the bench, I think getting someone like him would get us over the hump. We go from fringe contender to favored, I think.

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Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #55 on: January 05, 2021, 10:52:37 AM »

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Even when Kemba returns, we need a wing. It’s unfortunate that so much of our depth is in pure bigs (TT, Theis, RW) and pure PGs (Kemba, Teague, PP, and even Waters). Meanwhile, our 2-4 is fairly thin with Smart, Brown, Tatum, Ojeleye and GWill, with the latter 2 not always looking like NBA players out there.

If we could get a reliable wing, that’d be HUGE for the team. Someone mentioned Derozan and assuming he’s ok coming off the bench, I think getting someone like him would get us over the hump. We go from fringe contender to favored, I think.
If I were Ainge I would offer Nesmith and Timelord plus a late first rounder for derozan . But Spurs would want more so it will be tough to make that deal

Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #56 on: January 05, 2021, 11:02:40 AM »

Offline Darth_Yoda

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Idk if this has been mentioned, but in addition to all the other names talked about (Terrence Ross, Vucevic, Harrison Barnes, Aaron Gordon, Draymond), could DeRozan be an option with the TPE? Doubt he'll cost much in trade value given he's an expiring and he could be moved at the deadline.
That would be awesome, he’s taken his passing and shooting to another level. But he’s an expiring, so might not be our target

Kemba + for Demar and Murray would be an interesting deal.

Demar, Smart, Brown and Tatum are all capable playmakers. The offensive attack would be pretty lethal. And defensively, Demar is better than Kemba. Lose some on shooting though
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Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #57 on: January 05, 2021, 06:25:52 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Idk if this has been mentioned, but in addition to all the other names talked about (Terrence Ross, Vucevic, Harrison Barnes, Aaron Gordon, Draymond), could DeRozan be an option with the TPE? Doubt he'll cost much in trade value given he's an expiring and he could be moved at the deadline.
That would be awesome, he’s taken his passing and shooting to another level. But he’s an expiring, so might not be our target

Kemba + for Demar and Murray would be an interesting deal.

Demar, Smart, Brown and Tatum are all capable playmakers. The offensive attack would be pretty lethal. And defensively, Demar is better than Kemba. Lose some on shooting though
You lose some shooting, but DeRozan is hitting 47% of his 3s this year at 2.6 attempts a game. He even said preseason he’s going to show people he can shoot. Would be a good get
Fire Brad

Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #58 on: January 05, 2021, 06:29:03 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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Even when Kemba returns, we need a wing. It’s unfortunate that so much of our depth is in pure bigs (TT, Theis, RW) and pure PGs (Kemba, Teague, PP, and even Waters). Meanwhile, our 2-4 is fairly thin with Smart, Brown, Tatum, Ojeleye and GWill, with the latter 2 not always looking like NBA players out there.

If we could get a reliable wing, that’d be HUGE for the team. Someone mentioned Derozan and assuming he’s ok coming off the bench, I think getting someone like him would get us over the hump. We go from fringe contender to favored, I think.
If I were Ainge I would offer Nesmith and Timelord plus a late first rounder for derozan . But Spurs would want more so it will be tough to make that deal

You do know that DeRozan is only on a one-year-deal right? What are the Spurs going to do? Extend him for 4 years on a max contract?
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