Author Topic: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason  (Read 7442 times)

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Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2020, 09:02:17 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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As has been clarified by a few people, the TPE cannot be "supplemented" by adding other players' salaries to a deal, the player you are acquiring has to fit the TPE.  That means we can't use it to bring in one star if the salary exceeds the TPE value.  I guess we could use the TPE to bring in a player at say $25M and then add a $10M player from the roster and trade the new player and the $10M player for a $35M player in a 3-way, although there always seems to be one more rule in the CBA that I am not aware of so I don't know this for sure.

You can’t do that, exactly, unless you wait 60 days.

What we can do is trade for somebody making $28.5 million, and then immediately flip them for somebody making up to $35.725 million.

So, it’s a technical possibility to acquire Otto Porter with our TPE, and then immediately trade him in a second transaction for Paul George.  Then, the following day we can trade George for somebody making up to $43.163 million, which covers everybody in the league.  Steph Curry in green, in three easy steps.

Even if technically legal there is some question as to whether the league would allow this kind of transaction to go through. They may view it as "cap manipulation" an veto such a move. There was some question as to whether the GSW would use their TPE in a similar way. I was listening to a Dunc'd on offseason mocked pod and they seemed to think the league may not allow it. 

Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2020, 09:27:45 AM »

Offline jambr380

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The weakness is swing, not wing.  Tatum should not have to play PF all of his minutes.

Ballhandlers
Wings
Bigs

Swings are not in the coach’s vocabulary. Nor in mine. We just lost a valuable wing in Hayward who needs to be replaced.

I think this is a little too simplistic. There are smaller wings like Javonte Green who can guard 1-3 and bigger wings like Tatum who can guard 2-4. Even though 'swing' isn't in Stevens' vocabulary, it's still a position of need. Hayward falls squarely in the 'bigger wing' category.

As for who we would want to acquire - put me down for Aaron Gordon if there is even a sliver of hope. If ORL's season isn't going well and/or Okeke is playing well, there is a possibility that they would want to trade Gordon at the deadline. Moving Gordon would also open up max cap space for the Magic next summer.

It is way too early to speculate, but there is an avenue where we can acquire Gordon for the right pieces while also staying under the tax this season. He also fills one of the only needs on this roster as a playmaking swing/big wing who doesn't always need the ball in his hands and plays solid defense. Still being young and signed through 2022 is an added bonus.

Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2020, 09:43:25 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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As has been clarified by a few people, the TPE cannot be "supplemented" by adding other players' salaries to a deal, the player you are acquiring has to fit the TPE.  That means we can't use it to bring in one star if the salary exceeds the TPE value.  I guess we could use the TPE to bring in a player at say $25M and then add a $10M player from the roster and trade the new player and the $10M player for a $35M player in a 3-way, although there always seems to be one more rule in the CBA that I am not aware of so I don't know this for sure.

You can’t do that, exactly, unless you wait 60 days.

What we can do is trade for somebody making $28.5 million, and then immediately flip them for somebody making up to $35.725 million.

So, it’s a technical possibility to acquire Otto Porter with our TPE, and then immediately trade him in a second transaction for Paul George.  Then, the following day we can trade George for somebody making up to $43.163 million, which covers everybody in the league.  Steph Curry in green, in three easy steps.

Even if technically legal there is some question as to whether the league would allow this kind of transaction to go through. They may view it as "cap manipulation" an veto such a move. There was some question as to whether the GSW would use their TPE in a similar way. I was listening to a Dunc'd on offseason mocked pod and they seemed to think the league may not allow it.

Technically legal should mean legal, particularly since the rules have remained on the books unchanged through multiple CBAs.  But yes, the league has the right to stop teams from circumventing the cap. 
Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat. CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012.

Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2020, 10:09:25 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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As has been clarified by a few people, the TPE cannot be "supplemented" by adding other players' salaries to a deal, the player you are acquiring has to fit the TPE.  That means we can't use it to bring in one star if the salary exceeds the TPE value.  I guess we could use the TPE to bring in a player at say $25M and then add a $10M player from the roster and trade the new player and the $10M player for a $35M player in a 3-way, although there always seems to be one more rule in the CBA that I am not aware of so I don't know this for sure.

You can’t do that, exactly, unless you wait 60 days.

What we can do is trade for somebody making $28.5 million, and then immediately flip them for somebody making up to $35.725 million.

So, it’s a technical possibility to acquire Otto Porter with our TPE, and then immediately trade him in a second transaction for Paul George.  Then, the following day we can trade George for somebody making up to $43.163 million, which covers everybody in the league.  Steph Curry in green, in three easy steps.

Even if technically legal there is some question as to whether the league would allow this kind of transaction to go through. They may view it as "cap manipulation" an veto such a move. There was some question as to whether the GSW would use their TPE in a similar way. I was listening to a Dunc'd on offseason mocked pod and they seemed to think the league may not allow it.

Technically legal should mean legal, particularly since the rules have remained on the books unchanged through multiple CBAs.  But yes, the league has the right to stop teams from circumventing the cap.

I agree, if you think something is a loophole then close it otherwise it should be legal.

But as far as I know nobody has actually tried the outlined strategy and until somebody does there seems to be some question about it. I think the closer together the first and second move are the more the league would scrutinize it.

Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2020, 10:56:58 AM »

Offline footey

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Really nice breakdown of possible candidates with the TPE, by John Karalis of Mass Live. He also does a fine job of explaining how the TPE can, and cannot, be used.

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2020/11/gordon-hayward-trade-who-boston-celtics-can-target-what-a-traded-player-exception-is-how-to-use-it.html


Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2020, 10:59:32 AM »

Offline footey

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Can't help but take note that the 2 2nd round picks we sent to CHA are 2023 and 2024.  Wonder if we fought to keep nearer term 2nd rounders for future trade stock, that we would package if we had to dump salary, say in a situation where we needed more space due to hard cap?

Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2020, 08:47:36 PM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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Perhaps something is being missed, but why can’t we just exchange the TPE for someone on an expiring contract close to $28 million (e.g., Otto Porter) and then as soon as possible (60 days or whatever the new “Dec. 15th” is):

Flip that player + Langford + Nesmith + whatever filler it takes + Two first-round picks for Harden (or a disgruntled superstar of some sort forcing a trade, if not Harden...hell, would love to see the Bucks collapse and Giannis force a trade at the deadline...have to think he’d force his way to Miami or Boston). That’s a a combination of assets the receiving team can spin as “four first-rounders” to save face, and we add the last piece of the puzzle we need to win the title in 2021.

Sure, we can’t immediately combine the TPE with other assets, but it seems like as long as we can get someone to give us a player on an expiring contract that is close to the TPE (or two players that almost add up to the TPE combined), we can effectively trade the TPE plus assets after a waiting period in exchange for someone who’s better than us never using the TPE, or an alternative world where we never bothered to get it...

I’ve been one of Danny’s biggest doubters, but I’ve got a good feeling he’s about to blow our minds with another epic trade and there will be some serious mea culpas from us Danny doubters.

When you get down to it, the NBA needs Lakers V. Celtics in the NBA Finals next year given the decrease in revenues (and we all remember the pathetic ratings of Lakers V. Heat, so what makes them think Lakers V. 76ers or Lakers V. Bucks will be any different?), so there may be a lot of things at play behind-the-scenes that we’ll never know about...perhaps someone somehow forcing Giannis to Boston, ultimately ensuring we’re the new beast of the east for the foreseeable future, alleviates a lot of the NBA revenue concerns for so long as James/AD/Lakers keep making appearances in the Finals with us (can even see Kawhi joining an aging James and AD after we dethrone them with Giannis). Can you imagine if instead of Warriors V. Cavaliers for four years in a row it had been Celtics V. Lakers? Hollywood can’t write a better screenplay.

At the end of the day, it’s a business and it’s entertainment.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2020, 09:06:31 PM by GreenlyGreeny »

Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2020, 09:04:18 PM »

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Perhaps something is being missed, but why can’t we just exchange the TPE for someone on an expiring contract close to $28 million (e.g., Otto Porter) and then as soon as possible (60 days or whatever the new “Dec. 15th” is):

Flip that player + Langford + Nesmith + whatever filler it takes + Two first-round picks for Harden (or a disgruntled superstar of some sort forcing a trade, if not Harden...hell, would love to see the Bucks collapse and Giannis force a trade at the deadline...have to think he’d force his way to Miami or Boston). That’s a a combination of assets the receiving team can spin as “four first-rounders” to save face, and we add the last piece of the puzzle we need to win the title in 2021.

Sure, we can’t immediately combine the TPE with other assets, but it seems like as long as we can get someone to give us a player on an expiring contract that is close to the TPE (or two players that almost add up to the TPE combined), we can effectively trade the TPE plus assets after a waiting period in exchange for someone who’s better than us never getting the TPE and standing pat...

I’ve been one of Danny’s biggest doubters, but I’ve got a good feeling he’s about to blow our minds with another epic trade and there will be some serious mea culpas from us Danny doubters...
The team is hardcapped. The can't use the full TPE this year. Just $22 million or so.

But, they have made the decision not to go into the luxury tax this year to get rid of the repeater luxury tax penalty that would have happen had they stayed over the luxury tax line.

That now gets reset saving the team tens to hundreds of millions of dollars. That luxury tax line is $6 million less than the apron they are hardcapped at. Which means the Celtics will only use a little under $16 million of that TPE this season, if they use any at all. And this all assumed the roster is completed. If they add or get rid of any salary, that would then affect how much of $$16 million they could use.

Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2020, 09:10:27 PM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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Perhaps something is being missed, but why can’t we just exchange the TPE for someone on an expiring contract close to $28 million (e.g., Otto Porter) and then as soon as possible (60 days or whatever the new “Dec. 15th” is):

Flip that player + Langford + Nesmith + whatever filler it takes + Two first-round picks for Harden (or a disgruntled superstar of some sort forcing a trade, if not Harden...hell, would love to see the Bucks collapse and Giannis force a trade at the deadline...have to think he’d force his way to Miami or Boston). That’s a a combination of assets the receiving team can spin as “four first-rounders” to save face, and we add the last piece of the puzzle we need to win the title in 2021.

Sure, we can’t immediately combine the TPE with other assets, but it seems like as long as we can get someone to give us a player on an expiring contract that is close to the TPE (or two players that almost add up to the TPE combined), we can effectively trade the TPE plus assets after a waiting period in exchange for someone who’s better than us never getting the TPE and standing pat...

I’ve been one of Danny’s biggest doubters, but I’ve got a good feeling he’s about to blow our minds with another epic trade and there will be some serious mea culpas from us Danny doubters...
The team is hardcapped. The can't use the full TPE this year. Just $22 million or so.

But, they have made the decision not to go into the luxury tax this year to get rid of the repeater luxury tax penalty that would have happen had they stayed over the luxury tax line.

That now gets reset saving the team tens to hundreds of millions of dollars. That luxury tax line is $6 million less than the apron they are hardcapped at. Which means the Celtics will only use a little under $16 million of that TPE this season, if they use any at all. And this all assumed the roster is completed. If they add or get rid of any salary, that would then affect how much of $$16 million they could use.

So basically there’s no way to get a superstar without dumping Kemba in the trade? I mean, if we’re talking Giannis or Harden, technically they could run point...

We gotta do something. This team isn’t good enough to make it to the Finals, let alone win it all...

Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2020, 04:05:09 PM »

Offline michigan adam

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If they moved theis, romeo, and/or RW3 they could use the entire 28.5m and stay under the hard cap.  Have to think hard about losing that talent, but if a giannis were to want a trade to the C's....they could do it lol.  Romeo and rw3 and a ton of firsts would free up just about the perfect amount to get giannis this year.

Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2020, 06:10:06 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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Perhaps something is being missed, but why can’t we just exchange the TPE for someone on an expiring contract close to $28 million (e.g., Otto Porter) and then as soon as possible (60 days or whatever the new “Dec. 15th” is):

Flip that player + Langford + Nesmith + whatever filler it takes + Two first-round picks for Harden (or a disgruntled superstar of some sort forcing a trade, if not Harden...hell, would love to see the Bucks collapse and Giannis force a trade at the deadline...have to think he’d force his way to Miami or Boston). That’s a a combination of assets the receiving team can spin as “four first-rounders” to save face, and we add the last piece of the puzzle we need to win the title in 2021.

Sure, we can’t immediately combine the TPE with other assets, but it seems like as long as we can get someone to give us a player on an expiring contract that is close to the TPE (or two players that almost add up to the TPE combined), we can effectively trade the TPE plus assets after a waiting period in exchange for someone who’s better than us never getting the TPE and standing pat...

I’ve been one of Danny’s biggest doubters, but I’ve got a good feeling he’s about to blow our minds with another epic trade and there will be some serious mea culpas from us Danny doubters...
The team is hardcapped. The can't use the full TPE this year. Just $22 million or so.

But, they have made the decision not to go into the luxury tax this year to get rid of the repeater luxury tax penalty that would have happen had they stayed over the luxury tax line.

That now gets reset saving the team tens to hundreds of millions of dollars. That luxury tax line is $6 million less than the apron they are hardcapped at. Which means the Celtics will only use a little under $16 million of that TPE this season, if they use any at all. And this all assumed the roster is completed. If they add or get rid of any salary, that would then affect how much of $$16 million they could use.

So basically there’s no way to get a superstar without dumping Kemba in the trade? I mean, if we’re talking Giannis or Harden, technically they could run point...

We gotta do something. This team isn’t good enough to make it to the Finals, let alone win it all...

You have your stars they're like staring you at the face. ;) besides panicking is the last thing you need especially when you have a large sum of money.

Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2020, 06:51:25 PM »

Offline #1P4P

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Aside from a buyout or a non-TPE-related trade, this is going to be the roster.

The Celtics' TPE will be used next offseason in exchange for draft assets (for another team to clear space to sign a FA) or in exchange for a 2021 FA/RFA that another team isn't extending (packaged with draft assets). For the latter option, the list of potential candidates are: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30403388/nba-free-agents-team-team-lists-2021-2022

Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #42 on: January 04, 2021, 01:36:21 PM »

Offline BruceBanner18

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I have a sneaky suspicion about Kyle Lowry and our TPE 🤔 We could be watching a trade deadline candidate tonight

Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2021, 01:42:05 PM »

Offline RJ87

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I have a sneaky suspicion about Kyle Lowry and our TPE 🤔 We could be watching a trade deadline candidate tonight

He makes too much money for our TPE.

Re: There’s Still Hope: The TPE in 2021 Trade Deadline/Offseason
« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2021, 02:38:59 PM »

Offline BruceBanner18

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I have a sneaky suspicion about Kyle Lowry and our TPE 🤔 We could be watching a trade deadline candidate tonight

He makes too much money for our TPE.

He doesn't actually. We would just need to send out $$ to stay under the hard cap but that's easy.