Hayward sign-and-trade completed

[liam]

FYI the Celtics literally CAN"T take on Batum, after using the full MLE they are hard capped at a number where they can't absorb Batum. And at 27 million Batum is fairly difficult to move.

The easiest solution is CHA sending out Zeller who makes 14 million, but I doubt the C's want him because taking back his salary cuts into the TPE you can generate and ideally you'd want to make one big enough for Beal (we can dream). One possible solution is sending Theis to CHA to replace Zeller and Zeller to a third team. That clears 9 million in salary which is enough. In this case the Celtics "pay" for the TPE by using Theis, CHA sends some picks to a third team to absorb Zeller. Here's an example, you can quibble with the draft picks each team gives up.

BOS
Out: Hayward (S&T), Theis
IN: TPE (33-37 million depending on Hayward contract)

CHA
Out: Zeller, draft pick(s)
IN: Hayward (S&T), Theis

NYK
Out: Nothing
IN: Zeller, draft pick(s)

Another possibility is OKC, who will have a trade exception big enough to absorb Zeller. This could be what the hold up is, waiting for OKC to sequence its moves so that it generates the TPE it needs to absorb Zeller or Batum.

I know people won't like trading Theis and if you think he's worth more than just getting a huge TPE then that's fair, but I think TT basically takes his role. Robert Williams then gets a shot at real minutes, and you can pick up another center with the BAE or for the min.

I think it’s more realistic the third team to be OKC.
Batum plus second rounders plus cash from Boston and Charlotte going to OKC
Hayward plus tj leaf plus George hill to hornets
Ariza plus $15M trade exception to Celtics ...
It will be a complicated transaction in terms of the sequence of moves but can work out and all 3 teams can be happy with the end result

What’s that like 6 teams for Ariza in a week?

[NKY fan]

FYI the Celtics literally CAN"T take on Batum, after using the full MLE they are hard capped at a number where they can't absorb Batum. And at 27 million Batum is fairly difficult to move.

The easiest solution is CHA sending out Zeller who makes 14 million, but I doubt the C's want him because taking back his salary cuts into the TPE you can generate and ideally you'd want to make one big enough for Beal (we can dream). One possible solution is sending Theis to CHA to replace Zeller and Zeller to a third team. That clears 9 million in salary which is enough. In this case the Celtics "pay" for the TPE by using Theis, CHA sends some picks to a third team to absorb Zeller. Here's an example, you can quibble with the draft picks each team gives up.

BOS
Out: Hayward (S&T), Theis
IN: TPE (33-37 million depending on Hayward contract)

CHA
Out: Zeller, draft pick(s)
IN: Hayward (S&T), Theis

NYK
Out: Nothing
IN: Zeller, draft pick(s)

Another possibility is OKC, who will have a trade exception big enough to absorb Zeller. This could be what the hold up is, waiting for OKC to sequence its moves so that it generates the TPE it needs to absorb Zeller or Batum.

I know people won't like trading Theis and if you think he's worth more than just getting a huge TPE then that's fair, but I think TT basically takes his role. Robert Williams then gets a shot at real minutes, and you can pick up another center with the BAE or for the min.

I think it’s more realistic the third team to be OKC.
Batum plus second rounders plus cash from Boston and Charlotte going to OKC
Hayward plus tj leaf plus George hill to hornets
Ariza plus $15M trade exception to Celtics ...
It will be a complicated transaction in terms of the sequence of moves but can work out and all 3 teams can be happy with the end result

What’s that like 6 teams for Ariza in a week?

He must be thankful his salary got guaranteed

[BitterJim]

FYI the Celtics literally CAN"T take on Batum, after using the full MLE they are hard capped at a number where they can't absorb Batum. And at 27 million Batum is fairly difficult to move.

The easiest solution is CHA sending out Zeller who makes 14 million, but I doubt the C's want him because taking back his salary cuts into the TPE you can generate and ideally you'd want to make one big enough for Beal (we can dream). One possible solution is sending Theis to CHA to replace Zeller and Zeller to a third team. That clears 9 million in salary which is enough. In this case the Celtics "pay" for the TPE by using Theis, CHA sends some picks to a third team to absorb Zeller. Here's an example, you can quibble with the draft picks each team gives up.

BOS
Out: Hayward (S&T), Theis
IN: TPE (33-37 million depending on Hayward contract)

CHA
Out: Zeller, draft pick(s)
IN: Hayward (S&T), Theis

NYK
Out: Nothing
IN: Zeller, draft pick(s)

Another possibility is OKC, who will have a trade exception big enough to absorb Zeller. This could be what the hold up is, waiting for OKC to sequence its moves so that it generates the TPE it needs to absorb Zeller or Batum.

I know people won't like trading Theis and if you think he's worth more than just getting a huge TPE then that's fair, but I think TT basically takes his role. Robert Williams then gets a shot at real minutes, and you can pick up another center with the BAE or for the min.

I'm pretty sure you can't combine the player salaries like that; you could get 2 separate TPEs (one the size of Hayward's, and another the size of Theis').

Not that that matters, because if Ainge trade Theis to get a TPE, that would be a disaster (unless he already had a trade for someone like Beal already lined up that needed the TPE)

[keevsnick]

FYI the Celtics literally CAN"T take on Batum, after using the full MLE they are hard capped at a number where they can't absorb Batum. And at 27 million Batum is fairly difficult to move.

The easiest solution is CHA sending out Zeller who makes 14 million, but I doubt the C's want him because taking back his salary cuts into the TPE you can generate and ideally you'd want to make one big enough for Beal (we can dream). One possible solution is sending Theis to CHA to replace Zeller and Zeller to a third team. That clears 9 million in salary which is enough. In this case the Celtics "pay" for the TPE by using Theis, CHA sends some picks to a third team to absorb Zeller. Here's an example, you can quibble with the draft picks each team gives up.

BOS
Out: Hayward (S&T), Theis
IN: TPE (33-37 million depending on Hayward contract)

CHA
Out: Zeller, draft pick(s)
IN: Hayward (S&T), Theis

NYK
Out: Nothing
IN: Zeller, draft pick(s)

Another possibility is OKC, who will have a trade exception big enough to absorb Zeller. This could be what the hold up is, waiting for OKC to sequence its moves so that it generates the TPE it needs to absorb Zeller or Batum.

I know people won't like trading Theis and if you think he's worth more than just getting a huge TPE then that's fair, but I think TT basically takes his role. Robert Williams then gets a shot at real minutes, and you can pick up another center with the BAE or for the min.

I'm pretty sure you can't combine the player salaries like that; you could get 2 separate TPEs (one the size of Hayward's, and another the size of Theis').

Not that that matters, because if Ainge trade Theis to get a TPE, that would be a disaster (unless he already had a trade for someone like Beal already lined up that needed the TPE)

Ya I wasn't sure about that, in any event  that's not actually the primary motivation. Its more about using Theis as a value contract to incentive CHA to do a sign and trade with us. The general idea is that CHA would prefer to upgrade Zeller to Theis while also not having to stretch Batum and thus would be willing take Hayward via s&t to do it. If you can do it without having to give up Theis that's obviously preferable, or maybe the third team Zeller gets shipped too sends you back a rotation wing player in return.

Its also about getting R Williams minutes.

[BitterJim]

FYI the Celtics literally CAN"T take on Batum, after using the full MLE they are hard capped at a number where they can't absorb Batum. And at 27 million Batum is fairly difficult to move.

The easiest solution is CHA sending out Zeller who makes 14 million, but I doubt the C's want him because taking back his salary cuts into the TPE you can generate and ideally you'd want to make one big enough for Beal (we can dream). One possible solution is sending Theis to CHA to replace Zeller and Zeller to a third team. That clears 9 million in salary which is enough. In this case the Celtics "pay" for the TPE by using Theis, CHA sends some picks to a third team to absorb Zeller. Here's an example, you can quibble with the draft picks each team gives up.

BOS
Out: Hayward (S&T), Theis
IN: TPE (33-37 million depending on Hayward contract)

CHA
Out: Zeller, draft pick(s)
IN: Hayward (S&T), Theis

NYK
Out: Nothing
IN: Zeller, draft pick(s)

Another possibility is OKC, who will have a trade exception big enough to absorb Zeller. This could be what the hold up is, waiting for OKC to sequence its moves so that it generates the TPE it needs to absorb Zeller or Batum.

I know people won't like trading Theis and if you think he's worth more than just getting a huge TPE then that's fair, but I think TT basically takes his role. Robert Williams then gets a shot at real minutes, and you can pick up another center with the BAE or for the min.

I'm pretty sure you can't combine the player salaries like that; you could get 2 separate TPEs (one the size of Hayward's, and another the size of Theis').

Not that that matters, because if Ainge trade Theis to get a TPE, that would be a disaster (unless he already had a trade for someone like Beal already lined up that needed the TPE)

Ya I wasn't sure about that, in any event  that's not actually the primary motivation. Its more about using Theis as a value contract to incentive CHA to do a sign and trade with us. The general idea is that CHA would prefer to upgrade Zeller to Theis while also not having to stretch Batum and thus would be willing take Hayward via s&t to do it. If you can do it without having to give up Theis that's obviously preferable.

Its also about getting R Williams minutes.

That's like giving your neighbor your new TV just to keep an eye on your house while you're gone for the weekend. You don't need to give valuable assets for it, just toss them a six pack or $20 (or a 2nd rounder/cash). If they demand the TV, just walk away because it isn't worth it

[keevsnick]

FYI the Celtics literally CAN"T take on Batum, after using the full MLE they are hard capped at a number where they can't absorb Batum. And at 27 million Batum is fairly difficult to move.

The easiest solution is CHA sending out Zeller who makes 14 million, but I doubt the C's want him because taking back his salary cuts into the TPE you can generate and ideally you'd want to make one big enough for Beal (we can dream). One possible solution is sending Theis to CHA to replace Zeller and Zeller to a third team. That clears 9 million in salary which is enough. In this case the Celtics "pay" for the TPE by using Theis, CHA sends some picks to a third team to absorb Zeller. Here's an example, you can quibble with the draft picks each team gives up.

BOS
Out: Hayward (S&T), Theis
IN: TPE (33-37 million depending on Hayward contract)

CHA
Out: Zeller, draft pick(s)
IN: Hayward (S&T), Theis

NYK
Out: Nothing
IN: Zeller, draft pick(s)

Another possibility is OKC, who will have a trade exception big enough to absorb Zeller. This could be what the hold up is, waiting for OKC to sequence its moves so that it generates the TPE it needs to absorb Zeller or Batum.

I know people won't like trading Theis and if you think he's worth more than just getting a huge TPE then that's fair, but I think TT basically takes his role. Robert Williams then gets a shot at real minutes, and you can pick up another center with the BAE or for the min.

I'm pretty sure you can't combine the player salaries like that; you could get 2 separate TPEs (one the size of Hayward's, and another the size of Theis').

Not that that matters, because if Ainge trade Theis to get a TPE, that would be a disaster (unless he already had a trade for someone like Beal already lined up that needed the TPE)

Ya I wasn't sure about that, in any event  that's not actually the primary motivation. Its more about using Theis as a value contract to incentive CHA to do a sign and trade with us. The general idea is that CHA would prefer to upgrade Zeller to Theis while also not having to stretch Batum and thus would be willing take Hayward via s&t to do it. If you can do it without having to give up Theis that's obviously preferable.

Its also about getting R Williams minutes.

That's like giving your neighbor your new TV just to keep an eye on your house while you're gone for the weekend. You don't need to give valuable assets for it, just toss them a six pack or $20 (or a 2nd rounder/cash). If they demand the TV, just walk away because it isn't worth it

I don't think Theis is a TV. He's a toast or blender, a really nice one but still. And a 30 million TPE isn't watching your house for a weekend, it could be anything from absolutely nothing to a new Car.

Tristan Thompson is arguably as good or close. That means Theis at 5 million has about 4-5 million dollars in surplus value for one season at a position where you can routinely find guys for the minimum (like Dwight Howard last year) to be very good backups. Robert Williams might already be that or better.

If its an option between a 30 million dollar TPE, or Daniel Theis for 1 year, i'd take the TPE. I know that's hard to fathom for people, but the TPE may be your last chance to be able to absorb a player (like say Beal) without having to give up Brown. Alternatively it could be used for a player like Heild, Aaron Gordon, ect without having to sacrifice Smart. Its an upside play for sure, and risky because there's a  chance an opportunity never develops. But you have to roll the dice sometimes and I don't think 1 year of Theis is that much to gamble.

As I've said, I'd try everything else first. But if forced I'd include Theis.

[michigan adam]

If charlotte asks for more than a heavily protected 2nd rounder from the C's for the S&T deal then walk away, and make sure everyone knows the hornets do not play fair.  The C's did a S&T for Kemba last yeaqr as a favor so charlotte could sign Terry R.  A fovor.  If MJ can't return that favor, then the entire league will likely never give him another one.  Now if the delay is for the hornetts to find a partner to trade zeller, rozier, or batum so they do not have to release and stretch batum, then I can be more patient, and calm.  I could even see the C's take a player like ariza that MIGHT fill a need to facilitate the deal.  But pay a cost like theis?  Are you insane...no thanks.

[jambr380]

We're not giving up Theis to get a TPE. If Jordan is playing hardball - for whatever reason - then you throw them two 2nd rounders instead of one. And I don't know why he would be - if we are willing to give them a 2nd rounder outright and he is able to return the favor from last year, that is them getting an asset and is good business in general. No reason to make enemies with a GM you just kind-of screwed over. DA didn't even demand one 2nd rounder when they were in the same position last offseason.

[keevsnick]

If charlotte asks for more than a heavily protected 2nd rounder from the C's for the S&T deal then walk away, and make sure everyone knows the hornets do not play fair.  The C's did a S&T for Kemba last yeaqr as a favor so charlotte could sign Terry R.  A fovor.  If MJ can't return that favor, then the entire league will likely never give him another one.  Now if the delay is for the hornetts to find a partner to trade zeller, rozier, or batum so they do not have to release and stretch batum, then I can be more patient, and calm.  I could even see the C's take a player like ariza that MIGHT fill a need to facilitate the deal.  But pay a cost like theis?  Are you insane...no thanks.

Yes I'm sure the Hornets feel indebted to the team who took their franchise player. They don't owe the Celtics anything.

Again with Theis, of course you exhaust every other option. And I don't think in the end its likely he's the cost. Charlotte probably settles for less. I'm just saying IF that was the cost, i'd do it.

What if its a 3 team with OKC and Theis is out, but you get George Hill AND the TPE? Like the following:

https://twitter.com/dangercart/status/1331196170669056001?s=20

[Neurotic Guy]

FYI the Celtics literally CAN"T take on Batum, after using the full MLE they are hard capped at a number where they can't absorb Batum. And at 27 million Batum is fairly difficult to move.

The easiest solution is CHA sending out Zeller who makes 14 million, but I doubt the C's want him because taking back his salary cuts into the TPE you can generate and ideally you'd want to make one big enough for Beal (we can dream). One possible solution is sending Theis to CHA to replace Zeller and Zeller to a third team. That clears 9 million in salary which is enough. In this case the Celtics "pay" for the TPE by using Theis, CHA sends some picks to a third team to absorb Zeller. Here's an example, you can quibble with the draft picks each team gives up.

BOS
Out: Hayward (S&T), Theis
IN: TPE (33-37 million depending on Hayward contract)

CHA
Out: Zeller, draft pick(s)
IN: Hayward (S&T), Theis

NYK
Out: Nothing
IN: Zeller, draft pick(s)

Another possibility is OKC, who will have a trade exception big enough to absorb Zeller. This could be what the hold up is, waiting for OKC to sequence its moves so that it generates the TPE it needs to absorb Zeller or Batum.

I know people won't like trading Theis and if you think he's worth more than just getting a huge TPE then that's fair, but I think TT basically takes his role. Robert Williams then gets a shot at real minutes, and you can pick up another center with the BAE or for the min.

I'm pretty sure you can't combine the player salaries like that; you could get 2 separate TPEs (one the size of Hayward's, and another the size of Theis').

Not that that matters, because if Ainge trade Theis to get a TPE, that would be a disaster (unless he already had a trade for someone like Beal already lined up that needed the TPE)

Ya I wasn't sure about that, in any event  that's not actually the primary motivation. Its more about using Theis as a value contract to incentive CHA to do a sign and trade with us. The general idea is that CHA would prefer to upgrade Zeller to Theis while also not having to stretch Batum and thus would be willing take Hayward via s&t to do it. If you can do it without having to give up Theis that's obviously preferable.

Its also about getting R Williams minutes.

That's like giving your neighbor your new TV just to keep an eye on your house while you're gone for the weekend. You don't need to give valuable assets for it, just toss them a six pack or $20 (or a 2nd rounder/cash). If they demand the TV, just walk away because it isn't worth it

I don't think Theis is a TV. He's a toast or blender, a really nice one but still. And a 30 million TPE isn't watching your house for a weekend, it could be anything from absolutely nothing to a new Car.

Tristan Thompson is arguably as good or close. That means Theis at 5 million has about 4-5 million dollars in surplus value for one season at a position where you can routinely find guys for the minimum (like Dwight Howard last year) to be very good backups. Robert Williams might already be that or better.

If its an option between a 30 million dollar TPE, or Daniel Theis for 1 year, i'd take the TPE. I know that's hard to fathom for people, but the TPE may be your last chance to be able to absorb a player (like say Beal) without having to give up Brown. Alternatively it could be used for a player like Heild, Aaron Gordon, ect without having to sacrifice Smart. Its an upside play for sure, and risky because there's a  chance an opportunity never develops. But you have to roll the dice sometimes and I don't think 1 year of Theis is that much to gamble.

As I've said, I'd try everything else first. But if forced I'd include Theis.

I think we'd all be on the same page to avoid giving up Theis if not necessary.  A couple of 2nds may do the trick -- it's no skin off MJs nose to do an S&T vs. not. 

Where you are playing chess (as I play checkers) is about getting a player on the Beal, Hield or A.Gordon level with the TPE.   What are the current circumstances that would lead Wiz, Magic or Sac to see a TPE trade with Boston  as the team's best deal?  Would seem to me that many teams could/would offer a better deal than that.

[keevsnick]

FYI the Celtics literally CAN"T take on Batum, after using the full MLE they are hard capped at a number where they can't absorb Batum. And at 27 million Batum is fairly difficult to move.

The easiest solution is CHA sending out Zeller who makes 14 million, but I doubt the C's want him because taking back his salary cuts into the TPE you can generate and ideally you'd want to make one big enough for Beal (we can dream). One possible solution is sending Theis to CHA to replace Zeller and Zeller to a third team. That clears 9 million in salary which is enough. In this case the Celtics "pay" for the TPE by using Theis, CHA sends some picks to a third team to absorb Zeller. Here's an example, you can quibble with the draft picks each team gives up.

BOS
Out: Hayward (S&T), Theis
IN: TPE (33-37 million depending on Hayward contract)

CHA
Out: Zeller, draft pick(s)
IN: Hayward (S&T), Theis

NYK
Out: Nothing
IN: Zeller, draft pick(s)

Another possibility is OKC, who will have a trade exception big enough to absorb Zeller. This could be what the hold up is, waiting for OKC to sequence its moves so that it generates the TPE it needs to absorb Zeller or Batum.

I know people won't like trading Theis and if you think he's worth more than just getting a huge TPE then that's fair, but I think TT basically takes his role. Robert Williams then gets a shot at real minutes, and you can pick up another center with the BAE or for the min.

I'm pretty sure you can't combine the player salaries like that; you could get 2 separate TPEs (one the size of Hayward's, and another the size of Theis').

Not that that matters, because if Ainge trade Theis to get a TPE, that would be a disaster (unless he already had a trade for someone like Beal already lined up that needed the TPE)

Ya I wasn't sure about that, in any event  that's not actually the primary motivation. Its more about using Theis as a value contract to incentive CHA to do a sign and trade with us. The general idea is that CHA would prefer to upgrade Zeller to Theis while also not having to stretch Batum and thus would be willing take Hayward via s&t to do it. If you can do it without having to give up Theis that's obviously preferable.

Its also about getting R Williams minutes.

That's like giving your neighbor your new TV just to keep an eye on your house while you're gone for the weekend. You don't need to give valuable assets for it, just toss them a six pack or $20 (or a 2nd rounder/cash). If they demand the TV, just walk away because it isn't worth it

I don't think Theis is a TV. He's a toast or blender, a really nice one but still. And a 30 million TPE isn't watching your house for a weekend, it could be anything from absolutely nothing to a new Car.

Tristan Thompson is arguably as good or close. That means Theis at 5 million has about 4-5 million dollars in surplus value for one season at a position where you can routinely find guys for the minimum (like Dwight Howard last year) to be very good backups. Robert Williams might already be that or better.

If its an option between a 30 million dollar TPE, or Daniel Theis for 1 year, i'd take the TPE. I know that's hard to fathom for people, but the TPE may be your last chance to be able to absorb a player (like say Beal) without having to give up Brown. Alternatively it could be used for a player like Heild, Aaron Gordon, ect without having to sacrifice Smart. Its an upside play for sure, and risky because there's a  chance an opportunity never develops. But you have to roll the dice sometimes and I don't think 1 year of Theis is that much to gamble.

As I've said, I'd try everything else first. But if forced I'd include Theis.

I think we'd all be on the same page to avoid giving up Theis if not necessary.  A couple of 2nds may do the trick -- it's no skin off MJs nose to do an S&T vs. not. 

Where you are playing chess (as I play checkers) is about getting a player on the Beal, Hield or A.Gordon level with the TPE.   What are the current circumstances that would lead Wiz, Magic or Sac to see a TPE trade with Boston  as the team's best deal?  Would seem to me that many teams could/would offer a better deal than that.

A team isnt trading with you becasue you have the TPE. You'd have to throw some combination of pritchard, langford, nesmith, R williams, G williams and/or future picks as the actual value in the deal. Its just that without the TPE there's no way to actually match salaries for your target without adding Jaylen, Kemba or Smart and you don't want to do that for obvious reasons.
 

[Neurotic Guy]

FYI the Celtics literally CAN"T take on Batum, after using the full MLE they are hard capped at a number where they can't absorb Batum. And at 27 million Batum is fairly difficult to move.

The easiest solution is CHA sending out Zeller who makes 14 million, but I doubt the C's want him because taking back his salary cuts into the TPE you can generate and ideally you'd want to make one big enough for Beal (we can dream). One possible solution is sending Theis to CHA to replace Zeller and Zeller to a third team. That clears 9 million in salary which is enough. In this case the Celtics "pay" for the TPE by using Theis, CHA sends some picks to a third team to absorb Zeller. Here's an example, you can quibble with the draft picks each team gives up.

BOS
Out: Hayward (S&T), Theis
IN: TPE (33-37 million depending on Hayward contract)

CHA
Out: Zeller, draft pick(s)
IN: Hayward (S&T), Theis

NYK
Out: Nothing
IN: Zeller, draft pick(s)

Another possibility is OKC, who will have a trade exception big enough to absorb Zeller. This could be what the hold up is, waiting for OKC to sequence its moves so that it generates the TPE it needs to absorb Zeller or Batum.

I know people won't like trading Theis and if you think he's worth more than just getting a huge TPE then that's fair, but I think TT basically takes his role. Robert Williams then gets a shot at real minutes, and you can pick up another center with the BAE or for the min.

I'm pretty sure you can't combine the player salaries like that; you could get 2 separate TPEs (one the size of Hayward's, and another the size of Theis').

Not that that matters, because if Ainge trade Theis to get a TPE, that would be a disaster (unless he already had a trade for someone like Beal already lined up that needed the TPE)

Ya I wasn't sure about that, in any event  that's not actually the primary motivation. Its more about using Theis as a value contract to incentive CHA to do a sign and trade with us. The general idea is that CHA would prefer to upgrade Zeller to Theis while also not having to stretch Batum and thus would be willing take Hayward via s&t to do it. If you can do it without having to give up Theis that's obviously preferable.

Its also about getting R Williams minutes.

That's like giving your neighbor your new TV just to keep an eye on your house while you're gone for the weekend. You don't need to give valuable assets for it, just toss them a six pack or $20 (or a 2nd rounder/cash). If they demand the TV, just walk away because it isn't worth it

I don't think Theis is a TV. He's a toast or blender, a really nice one but still. And a 30 million TPE isn't watching your house for a weekend, it could be anything from absolutely nothing to a new Car.

Tristan Thompson is arguably as good or close. That means Theis at 5 million has about 4-5 million dollars in surplus value for one season at a position where you can routinely find guys for the minimum (like Dwight Howard last year) to be very good backups. Robert Williams might already be that or better.

If its an option between a 30 million dollar TPE, or Daniel Theis for 1 year, i'd take the TPE. I know that's hard to fathom for people, but the TPE may be your last chance to be able to absorb a player (like say Beal) without having to give up Brown. Alternatively it could be used for a player like Heild, Aaron Gordon, ect without having to sacrifice Smart. Its an upside play for sure, and risky because there's a  chance an opportunity never develops. But you have to roll the dice sometimes and I don't think 1 year of Theis is that much to gamble.

As I've said, I'd try everything else first. But if forced I'd include Theis.

I think we'd all be on the same page to avoid giving up Theis if not necessary.  A couple of 2nds may do the trick -- it's no skin off MJs nose to do an S&T vs. not. 

Where you are playing chess (as I play checkers) is about getting a player on the Beal, Hield or A.Gordon level with the TPE.   What are the current circumstances that would lead Wiz, Magic or Sac to see a TPE trade with Boston  as the team's best deal?  Would seem to me that many teams could/would offer a better deal than that.

A team isnt trading with you becasue you have the TPE. You'd have to throw some combination of pritchard, langford, nesmith, R williams, G williams and/or future picks as the actual value in the deal. Its just that without the TPE there's no way to actually match salaries for your target without adding Jaylen, Kemba or Smart and you don't want to do that for obvious reasons.

And I'm back to square one in my learning because I thought that you couldn't combine players with a TPE in a trade (only draft picks).

[knuckleballer]

You can trade away a player when using the TPE, it just won’t add to the amount of salary you’re taking back.  If the TPE amount is $20 million and you trade away a player making $10m, you can only take back up to $20m.

[feckless]

Even with Tristan we need Theis.

[jambr380]

FYI the Celtics literally CAN"T take on Batum, after using the full MLE they are hard capped at a number where they can't absorb Batum. And at 27 million Batum is fairly difficult to move.

The easiest solution is CHA sending out Zeller who makes 14 million, but I doubt the C's want him because taking back his salary cuts into the TPE you can generate and ideally you'd want to make one big enough for Beal (we can dream). One possible solution is sending Theis to CHA to replace Zeller and Zeller to a third team. That clears 9 million in salary which is enough. In this case the Celtics "pay" for the TPE by using Theis, CHA sends some picks to a third team to absorb Zeller. Here's an example, you can quibble with the draft picks each team gives up.

BOS
Out: Hayward (S&T), Theis
IN: TPE (33-37 million depending on Hayward contract)

CHA
Out: Zeller, draft pick(s)
IN: Hayward (S&T), Theis

NYK
Out: Nothing
IN: Zeller, draft pick(s)

Another possibility is OKC, who will have a trade exception big enough to absorb Zeller. This could be what the hold up is, waiting for OKC to sequence its moves so that it generates the TPE it needs to absorb Zeller or Batum.

I know people won't like trading Theis and if you think he's worth more than just getting a huge TPE then that's fair, but I think TT basically takes his role. Robert Williams then gets a shot at real minutes, and you can pick up another center with the BAE or for the min.

I'm pretty sure you can't combine the player salaries like that; you could get 2 separate TPEs (one the size of Hayward's, and another the size of Theis').

Not that that matters, because if Ainge trade Theis to get a TPE, that would be a disaster (unless he already had a trade for someone like Beal already lined up that needed the TPE)

Ya I wasn't sure about that, in any event  that's not actually the primary motivation. Its more about using Theis as a value contract to incentive CHA to do a sign and trade with us. The general idea is that CHA would prefer to upgrade Zeller to Theis while also not having to stretch Batum and thus would be willing take Hayward via s&t to do it. If you can do it without having to give up Theis that's obviously preferable.

Its also about getting R Williams minutes.

That's like giving your neighbor your new TV just to keep an eye on your house while you're gone for the weekend. You don't need to give valuable assets for it, just toss them a six pack or $20 (or a 2nd rounder/cash). If they demand the TV, just walk away because it isn't worth it

I don't think Theis is a TV. He's a toast or blender, a really nice one but still. And a 30 million TPE isn't watching your house for a weekend, it could be anything from absolutely nothing to a new Car.

Tristan Thompson is arguably as good or close. That means Theis at 5 million has about 4-5 million dollars in surplus value for one season at a position where you can routinely find guys for the minimum (like Dwight Howard last year) to be very good backups. Robert Williams might already be that or better.

If its an option between a 30 million dollar TPE, or Daniel Theis for 1 year, i'd take the TPE. I know that's hard to fathom for people, but the TPE may be your last chance to be able to absorb a player (like say Beal) without having to give up Brown. Alternatively it could be used for a player like Heild, Aaron Gordon, ect without having to sacrifice Smart. Its an upside play for sure, and risky because there's a  chance an opportunity never develops. But you have to roll the dice sometimes and I don't think 1 year of Theis is that much to gamble.

As I've said, I'd try everything else first. But if forced I'd include Theis.

I think we'd all be on the same page to avoid giving up Theis if not necessary.  A couple of 2nds may do the trick -- it's no skin off MJs nose to do an S&T vs. not. 

Where you are playing chess (as I play checkers) is about getting a player on the Beal, Hield or A.Gordon level with the TPE.   What are the current circumstances that would lead Wiz, Magic or Sac to see a TPE trade with Boston  as the team's best deal?  Would seem to me that many teams could/would offer a better deal than that.

In reality, your best opportunity in a situation like this is when a team is over the tax and wants to get back under. That way, what you have to offer (no salary back in a trade) is actually a bonus over other offers. Of course we could throw in additional rookie-contract assets and picks - depending on the level of player we are acquiring - but it is possible to get a decent, although usually overpaid, player.

The other reason a TPE is so valuable is it would carry into next off-season. I maintain, though, that there is no way we are just dumping Theis. He is just way too valuable to what we do on this team. I love dangercart, but that is a terrible trade - Hill and Muscala? You've got to be kidding me.