Hayward sign-and-trade completed

[Roy H.]

......what the what is taking so long?

As it stands, Hornets don't have to do anything but waive/stretch Batum (though that hurts the owners profit)

However they could be working hard to find a team to take Batum/and his salary for a future 2nd/Monk (my guess)

If such a team wants an additional 2nd,  perhaps this is where Danny comes in to help

And then Hornets scratch Dannys back and provide TPE for Hayward

I doubt that the Hornets want to stretch/waive Batum.  And then provide TPE relief for a measly 2nd from the Celts

This would be all easier for the Hornets if Celtics just take back Batum and also they could add a 2nd/Monk 


Who knows if greedy Danny is back at it again and wants more in return

Why would we even consider taking Batum?  I’m pretty sure that would put us above the hard cap, but it would be a horrible deal even without that aspect.

[Tr1boy]

......what the what is taking so long?

As it stands, Hornets don't have to do anything but waive/stretch Batum (though that hurts the owners profit)

However they could be working hard to find a team to take Batum/and his salary for a future 2nd/Monk (my guess)

If such a team wants an additional 2nd,  perhaps this is where Danny comes in to help

And then Hornets scratch Dannys back and provide TPE for Hayward

I doubt that the Hornets want to stretch/waive Batum.  And then provide TPE relief for a measly 2nd from the Celts

This would be all easier for the Hornets if Celtics just take back Batum and also they could add a 2nd/Monk 


Who knows if greedy Danny is back at it again and wants more in return

Why would we even consider taking Batum?  I’m pretty sure that would put us above the hard cap, but it would be a horrible deal even without that aspect.

thats the point. Danny and Wyc don't want to..... unless its really worthwhile. 

Hornets at this point are going to be paying GH 39 million per season  (including stretch).  That is even crazier than the 30m per season they gave GH in the first place

Hornets are likely working hard to try to unload Batum but without adding a future 1st or any other good asset

Their last resort is trading Rozier.  But likely won't be a great return outside of TPE

OR do nothing and just waive/stretch Batum. With Celtics getting nothing out of it

[wdleehi]

......what the what is taking so long?

As it stands, Hornets don't have to do anything but waive/stretch Batum (though that hurts the owners profit)

However they could be working hard to find a team to take Batum/and his salary for a future 2nd/Monk (my guess)

If such a team wants an additional 2nd,  perhaps this is where Danny comes in to help

And then Hornets scratch Dannys back and provide TPE for Hayward

I doubt that the Hornets want to stretch/waive Batum.  And then provide TPE relief for a measly 2nd from the Celts

This would be all easier for the Hornets if Celtics just take back Batum and also they could add a 2nd/Monk 


Who knows if greedy Danny is back at it again and wants more in return

Why would we even consider taking Batum?  I’m pretty sure that would put us above the hard cap, but it would be a horrible deal even without that aspect.

thats the point. Danny and Wyc don't want to..... unless its really worthwhile. 

Hornets at this point are going to be paying GH 39 million per season  (including stretch).  That is even crazier than the 30m per season they gave GH in the first place

Hornets are likely working hard to try to unload Batum but without adding a future 1st or any other good asset

Their last resort is trading Rozier.  But likely won't be a great return outside of TPE

OR do nothing and just waive/stretch Batum. With Celtics getting nothing out of it

If all the Celtics want is Batum do nothing.   Let the Hornets waive him and then sign him to the vet min.

[todd_days_41]

......what the what is taking so long?

As it stands, Hornets don't have to do anything but waive/stretch Batum (though that hurts the owners profit)

However they could be working hard to find a team to take Batum/and his salary for a future 2nd/Monk (my guess)

If such a team wants an additional 2nd,  perhaps this is where Danny comes in to help

And then Hornets scratch Dannys back and provide TPE for Hayward

I doubt that the Hornets want to stretch/waive Batum.  And then provide TPE relief for a measly 2nd from the Celts

This would be all easier for the Hornets if Celtics just take back Batum and also they could add a 2nd/Monk 


Who knows if greedy Danny is back at it again and wants more in return

Why would we even consider taking Batum?  I’m pretty sure that would put us above the hard cap, but it would be a horrible deal even without that aspect.

thats the point. Danny and Wyc don't want to..... unless its really worthwhile. 

Hornets at this point are going to be paying GH 39 million per season  (including stretch).  That is even crazier than the 30m per season they gave GH in the first place

Hornets are likely working hard to try to unload Batum but without adding a future 1st or any other good asset

Their last resort is trading Rozier.  But likely won't be a great return outside of TPE

OR do nothing and just waive/stretch Batum. With Celtics getting nothing out of it

If all the Celtics want is Batum do nothing.   Let the Hornets waive him and then sign him to the vet min.

If I'm following collective thoughts here, then:

• there's no market for Batum -- Cs or otherwise (almost certainly true)
• this should therefore not slow down any negotiations between CHA and BOS
• there's been no confirmation of whether a S&T will occur or not -- for days now

so my question stands -- what's taking so long? Ainge and Jordan grappling about 2nd rounders, or a bench guy like Monk?

one wonders if there's the involvement of a third team somehow, which is taking time.

[Darth_Yoda]

......what the what is taking so long?

As it stands, Hornets don't have to do anything but waive/stretch Batum (though that hurts the owners profit)

However they could be working hard to find a team to take Batum/and his salary for a future 2nd/Monk (my guess)

If such a team wants an additional 2nd,  perhaps this is where Danny comes in to help

And then Hornets scratch Dannys back and provide TPE for Hayward

I doubt that the Hornets want to stretch/waive Batum.  And then provide TPE relief for a measly 2nd from the Celts

This would be all easier for the Hornets if Celtics just take back Batum and also they could add a 2nd/Monk 


Who knows if greedy Danny is back at it again and wants more in return

Why would we even consider taking Batum?  I’m pretty sure that would put us above the hard cap, but it would be a horrible deal even without that aspect.

thats the point. Danny and Wyc don't want to..... unless its really worthwhile. 

Hornets at this point are going to be paying GH 39 million per season  (including stretch).  That is even crazier than the 30m per season they gave GH in the first place

Hornets are likely working hard to try to unload Batum but without adding a future 1st or any other good asset

Their last resort is trading Rozier.  But likely won't be a great return outside of TPE

OR do nothing and just waive/stretch Batum. With Celtics getting nothing out of it

If all the Celtics want is Batum do nothing.   Let the Hornets waive him and then sign him to the vet min.

If I'm following collective thoughts here, then:

• there's no market for Batum -- Cs or otherwise (almost certainly true)
• this should therefore not slow down any negotiations between CHA and BOS
• there's been no confirmation of whether a S&T will occur or not -- for days now

so my question stands -- what's taking so long? Ainge and Jordan grappling about 2nd rounders, or a bench guy like Monk?

one wonders if there's the involvement of a third team somehow, which is taking time.

I will be surprised if a third team is not in this for either zeller and picks (Atlanta for Capela maybe) or Rozier for a salary (NYK)

[todd_days_41]

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2020/11/24/third-team-help-celtics-pull-off-gordon-hayward-sign-trade/

anyone have a login who could share the below the fold on this article?

[MattyIce]

   
The longer the wait continues on a Gordon Hayward sign-and-trade possibility, the likelier it looks that there will be some kind of eventual deal in play for the Celtics and Hornets to land Boston a trade exception and/or player(s) in exchange for some draft compensation in some form.

A simple version of the deal is Charlotte still stretching Nicolas Batum’s contract ($27 million) and then demanding some draft compensation from Boston in exchange for facilitating the sign-and-trade. Whether this type of deal gets done simply comes down to whether the Celtics and Hornets can find some common ground on draft compensation heading back to the Hornets. How much is a $30 million trade exception worth to the Celtics? Two second-round picks? A protected first-round pick? The Hornets have all the leverage here so it will be interesting to see how much they demand in exchange and what Ainge's walkaway point is.

However, as the days drag on here with no roster movement from both sides in terms of finalizing their own contracts, the odds increase of a deal that involves both teams or perhaps goes beyond two teams in a sign-and-trade. There are still a few teams around the league that have big trade exceptions (Thunder) or significant cap room (Knicks, Hawks (if Bogdanovic offer gets matched)) that could potentially factor into a hypothetical sign-and-trade scenarios. How exactly could involving a third team in a potential sign-and-trade help out both the Celtics and Hornets? Let’s look through a few hypotheticals.

Thunder

This is probably the most likely option since their roster has been a revolving door all offseason as they accumulate draft picks for a rebuild. They should still have a sizable trade exception ($15 million) once they complete the Al Horford trade with the Sixers and they have another big one after trading Kelly Oubre Jr. to the Warriors. If the Hornets don’t want to stretch Batum and take the dead cap hit for the next three years on their books, the Celtics and Hornets could try to convince Sam Presti to take on Cody Zeller’s $15 million expiring contract into their big trade exception for some draft compensation. That would open up some big cap room for the Hornets to absorb Hayward’s deal and also spend on another free agent big to replace Zeller. The price point here would be key for the Celtics. Zeller shouldn’t have any trade value at 15 million but he’s still a decent player so the Thunder could try to flip him again for more value eventually on top of getting some picks from Boston for doing the initial deal.

The other way the Thunder could still get involved here is by sending another useful player out to Boston as part of a three-team

[MattyIce]

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2020/11/24/third-team-help-celtics-pull-off-gordon-hayward-sign-trade/

anyone have a login who could share the below the fold on this article?

see below ...or above actually lol

[feckless]

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2020/11/24/third-team-help-celtics-pull-off-gordon-hayward-sign-trade/

anyone have a login who could share the below the fold on this article?

I didn't read the below the fold BUT is this setting it up for Zeller to Okc and Horford to the C's  - with Okc as a third team in a sign and trade for Gordon?

[Birdman]

Think Ainge didn’t wanted to trade Hayward because of spite..he knew he wanted to go to Indy instead of resigning  with the Celtics

[libermaniac]

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2020/11/24/third-team-help-celtics-pull-off-gordon-hayward-sign-trade/

anyone have a login who could share the below the fold on this article?

I didn't read the below the fold BUT is this setting it up for Zeller to Okc and Horford to the C's  - with Okc as a third team in a sign and trade for Gordon?

I can't see the C's wanting to take on that HUGE Horford contract.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2020/11/24/third-team-help-celtics-pull-off-gordon-hayward-sign-trade/

anyone have a login who could share the below the fold on this article?

I didn't read the below the fold BUT is this setting it up for Zeller to Okc and Horford to the C's  - with Okc as a third team in a sign and trade for Gordon?

I think I'd rather have Zeller. But if we got Horford, I think i could talk myself into him. Main problem is the luxury tax this year and going forward with his contract. Not sure if there is a work around.

[keevsnick]

FYI the Celtics literally CAN"T take on Batum, after using the full MLE they are hard capped at a number where they can't absorb Batum. And at 27 million Batum is fairly difficult to move.

The easiest solution is CHA sending out Zeller who makes 14 million, but I doubt the C's want him because taking back his salary cuts into the TPE you can generate and ideally you'd want to make one big enough for Beal (we can dream). One possible solution is sending Theis to CHA to replace Zeller and Zeller to a third team. That clears 9 million in salary which is enough. In this case the Celtics "pay" for the TPE by using Theis, CHA sends some picks to a third team to absorb Zeller. Here's an example, you can quibble with the draft picks each team gives up.

BOS
Out: Hayward (S&T), Theis
IN: TPE (33-37 million depending on Hayward contract)

CHA
Out: Zeller, draft pick(s)
IN: Hayward (S&T), Theis

NYK
Out: Nothing
IN: Zeller, draft pick(s)

Another possibility is OKC, who will have a trade exception big enough to absorb Zeller. This could be what the hold up is, waiting for OKC to sequence its moves so that it generates the TPE it needs to absorb Zeller or Batum.

I know people won't like trading Theis and if you think he's worth more than just getting a huge TPE then that's fair, but I think TT basically takes his role. Robert Williams then gets a shot at real minutes, and you can pick up another center with the BAE or for the min.

[NKY fan]

FYI the Celtics literally CAN"T take on Batum, after using the full MLE they are hard capped at a number where they can't absorb Batum. And at 27 million Batum is fairly difficult to move.

The easiest solution is CHA sending out Zeller who makes 14 million, but I doubt the C's want him because taking back his salary cuts into the TPE you can generate and ideally you'd want to make one big enough for Beal (we can dream). One possible solution is sending Theis to CHA to replace Zeller and Zeller to a third team. That clears 9 million in salary which is enough. In this case the Celtics "pay" for the TPE by using Theis, CHA sends some picks to a third team to absorb Zeller. Here's an example, you can quibble with the draft picks each team gives up.

BOS
Out: Hayward (S&T), Theis
IN: TPE (33-37 million depending on Hayward contract)

CHA
Out: Zeller, draft pick(s)
IN: Hayward (S&T), Theis

NYK
Out: Nothing
IN: Zeller, draft pick(s)

Another possibility is OKC, who will have a trade exception big enough to absorb Zeller. This could be what the hold up is, waiting for OKC to sequence its moves so that it generates the TPE it needs to absorb Zeller or Batum.

I know people won't like trading Theis and if you think he's worth more than just getting a huge TPE then that's fair, but I think TT basically takes his role. Robert Williams then gets a shot at real minutes, and you can pick up another center with the BAE or for the min.

I think it’s more realistic the third team to be OKC.
Batum plus second rounders plus cash from Boston and Charlotte going to OKC
Hayward plus tj leaf plus George hill to hornets
Ariza plus $15M trade exception to Celtics ...
It will be a complicated transaction in terms of the sequence of moves but can work out and all 3 teams can be happy with the end result

[DefenseWinsChamps]

FYI the Celtics literally CAN"T take on Batum, after using the full MLE they are hard capped at a number where they can't absorb Batum. And at 27 million Batum is fairly difficult to move.

The easiest solution is CHA sending out Zeller who makes 14 million, but I doubt the C's want him because taking back his salary cuts into the TPE you can generate and ideally you'd want to make one big enough for Beal (we can dream). One possible solution is sending Theis to CHA to replace Zeller and Zeller to a third team. That clears 9 million in salary which is enough. In this case the Celtics "pay" for the TPE by using Theis, CHA sends some picks to a third team to absorb Zeller. Here's an example, you can quibble with the draft picks each team gives up.

BOS
Out: Hayward (S&T), Theis
IN: TPE (33-37 million depending on Hayward contract)

CHA
Out: Zeller, draft pick(s)
IN: Hayward (S&T), Theis

NYK
Out: Nothing
IN: Zeller, draft pick(s)

Another possibility is OKC, who will have a trade exception big enough to absorb Zeller. This could be what the hold up is, waiting for OKC to sequence its moves so that it generates the TPE it needs to absorb Zeller or Batum.

I know people won't like trading Theis and if you think he's worth more than just getting a huge TPE then that's fair, but I think TT basically takes his role. Robert Williams then gets a shot at real minutes, and you can pick up another center with the BAE or for the min.

I'd rather have Zeller than a nebulous trade exception. He's a good player that would fit the system well.