Woj: Schroder to the Lakers for #28 + Danny Green

[jambr380]

Kevin Pelton of ESPN gives the Thunder an A and the Lakers a C.

I don't get it.

me neither..should be other way around

I guess because the Thunder are likely to get 2 1sts (or whatever they get for Green) out of an expiring contract of a player they don't have long-term plans for; while it is more of a sideways move for the Lakers. Schroder for Rondo/Green/1st isn't terrible, but it doesn't make them considerably better or anything.

[dannyboy35]

In that case, does replacing Danny Green, a late 1st, and Rondo with Schroeder make them any better? Rondo was a key piece to their playoff run. I think this sets them back a bit.

I'm with hpantazo and Who in thinking this trade is not that great for LAL.  I'm not sure Schroeder will look very good next to Lebron.  The way hpantazo phrases it here, it looks like a clear net negative, but you also have to add in whatever 3 & D wing the Lakers end up signing to fully evaluate, which we can't do yet.  I think it will still end up looking like a net negative in the end, just not as much of one as it seems now.

  Right. Plus an Ibaka it Tristan at center. Lakers just getting started here.

[Moranis]

Rondo, even playoff Rondo, wasn't nearly as good as his reputation would have anyone believe. 

I mean this is his finals: 8.7 p, 5.2 r, 5.5 a, 1 s with a TS% of 49.5%.  His ORTG was 110, his DRTG was 111.

This is what you think the Lakers can't afford to lose.  Really?  And remember, that was a better Rondo than he was during the season.  He had as many finals games under 5 points as he had over 5 points.  Frankly he had 2 good games out of the 6, which is pretty much how he was all season long (including the playoffs).  He would show up every once in awhile and remind everyone he was an all star, but then the guy that bounced around the league for years leaving multiple places on bad notes would show up again for a couple of games, before he would turn back the clock some.

Rondo just isn't any good any more. Shroder is a tremendous upgrade.  It isn't close. 

[Moranis]

Kevin Pelton of ESPN gives the Thunder an A and the Lakers a C.

I don't get it.

me neither..should be other way around

I guess because the Thunder are likely to get 2 1sts (or whatever they get for Green) out of an expiring contract of a player they don't have long-term plans for; while it is more of a sideways move for the Lakers. Schroder for Rondo/Green/1st isn't terrible, but it doesn't make them considerably better or anything.

As I indicated in my last post, I think this makes the Lakers a lot better.  Not even a question in my mind.  Schroder is an excellent player.  Can play off the ball, shoots very well, is used to playing in a lesser role and off the bench, etc.  He isn't a great defender, but he is good enough (certainly more consistent defensively than Rondo).  He is a real and legit 3rd player and the Lakers kept Kuzma to use in other moves.  Absolutely great trade by the Lakers only giving up Green and 28.  I mean that is nothing. 

And they can still keep Rondo.  It isn't like they moved him.  They just felt Rondo was asking for too much money.  The Lakers just determined that Schroder and the MLE (say Ibaka) was better than Rondo, Green, and 28, and frankly even if they sign no one with the MLE it is still a good move.

[RJ87]

Rondo, even playoff Rondo, wasn't nearly as good as his reputation would have anyone believe. 

I mean this is his finals: 8.7 p, 5.2 r, 5.5 a, 1 s with a TS% of 49.5%.  His ORTG was 110, his DRTG was 111.

This is what you think the Lakers can't afford to lose.  Really?  And remember, that was a better Rondo than he was during the season.  He had as many finals games under 5 points as he had over 5 points.  Frankly he had 2 good games out of the 6, which is pretty much how he was all season long (including the playoffs).  He would show up every once in awhile and remind everyone he was an all star, but then the guy that bounced around the league for years leaving multiple places on bad notes would show up again for a couple of games, before he would turn back the clock some.

Rondo just isn't any good any more. Shroder is a tremendous upgrade.  It isn't close.

You're completely disregarding locker room fit. That matters, we've seen it up close as Celtics fans. You can have all the talent in the world but that doesn't mean it'll automatically come together on the court. Rondo - for all of his faults - was a great locker room fit as a friend of AD and someone Lebron trusted from a BBIQ standpoint. I think Shroeder will work out okay for them, but I do think they took a hit in terms of losing a vet that the "leaders" of that team trusted and listened to.

[Somebody]

The Lakers are getting fleeced in this trade , a middling efficiency point guard who creates at a moderate rate (he can definitely play off the ball, but I'd assume the Lakers would want him to run the offence when LeBron is resting) isn't what they really need compared to one of the best 3 and D players in the league. Feel that they can sign some perimeter firepower in FA and have those players share offensive duties with KCP when LeBron is resting.

[Roy H.]

The Lakers are getting fleeced in this trade , a middling efficiency point guard who creates at a moderate rate (he can definitely play off the ball, but I'd assume the Lakers would want him to run the offence when LeBron is resting) isn't what they really need compared to one of the best 3 and D players in the league. Feel that they can sign some perimeter firepower in FA and have those players share offensive duties with KCP when LeBron is resting.

One of the best 3 and D guys?  Not last year. 36% perimeter shooting and okay defense only.

Schroder was a better outside shooter last year.

[tazzmaniac]

The Lakers are getting fleeced in this trade , a middling efficiency point guard who creates at a moderate rate (he can definitely play off the ball, but I'd assume the Lakers would want him to run the offence when LeBron is resting) isn't what they really need compared to one of the best 3 and D players in the league. Feel that they can sign some perimeter firepower in FA and have those players share offensive duties with KCP when LeBron is resting.

One of the best 3 and D guys?  Not last year. 36% perimeter shooting and okay defense only.

Schroder was a better outside shooter last year.

And Green's 3pt shooting percentages in the playoffs (34.5, 25.0, 32.8. 33.9) in the past 4 seasons is considerably worse than in the regular season.

[Somebody]

The Lakers are getting fleeced in this trade , a middling efficiency point guard who creates at a moderate rate (he can definitely play off the ball, but I'd assume the Lakers would want him to run the offence when LeBron is resting) isn't what they really need compared to one of the best 3 and D players in the league. Feel that they can sign some perimeter firepower in FA and have those players share offensive duties with KCP when LeBron is resting.

One of the best 3 and D guys?  Not last year. 36% perimeter shooting and okay defense only.

Schroder was a better outside shooter last year.

Don't think his defence was just okay last year - he was able to defend the wing positions (and even a bit of guard) at a pretty high level, he was a key cog for the Laker defence being so elite.

And Schroeder's next best season from three was 35.1%, I'd take a guy who shot over 40% for numerous seasons (he did it last season in Toronto so it's not like he's washed) over him in three point shooting.

[Somebody]

The Lakers are getting fleeced in this trade , a middling efficiency point guard who creates at a moderate rate (he can definitely play off the ball, but I'd assume the Lakers would want him to run the offence when LeBron is resting) isn't what they really need compared to one of the best 3 and D players in the league. Feel that they can sign some perimeter firepower in FA and have those players share offensive duties with KCP when LeBron is resting.

One of the best 3 and D guys?  Not last year. 36% perimeter shooting and okay defense only.

Schroder was a better outside shooter last year.

And Green's 3pt shooting percentages in the playoffs (34.5, 25.0, 32.8. 33.9) in the past 4 seasons is considerably worse than in the regular season.

The 25% run was based on a 5 game sample size where the Spurs got absolutely hammered by the Warriors. 34.5%, 32.8% and 33.9% aren't that bad when you consider he was chucking up roughly 5 threes a game against some really good defences (all three of those years were deep playoff runs) as well as the fact that the threat of him being open to shoot warped the defences of opposing teams, which opened up the floor for offensive engines like LeBron and Kawhi to operate.

Speaking of playoff dips, Schroder shot an abysmal 28.9% from three in the playoffs this year

[Roy H.]

The Lakers are getting fleeced in this trade , a middling efficiency point guard who creates at a moderate rate (he can definitely play off the ball, but I'd assume the Lakers would want him to run the offence when LeBron is resting) isn't what they really need compared to one of the best 3 and D players in the league. Feel that they can sign some perimeter firepower in FA and have those players share offensive duties with KCP when LeBron is resting.

One of the best 3 and D guys?  Not last year. 36% perimeter shooting and okay defense only.

Schroder was a better outside shooter last year.

Don't think his defence was just okay last year - he was able to defend the wing positions (and even a bit of guard) at a pretty high level, he was a key cog for the Laker defence being so elite.

And Schroeder's next best season from three was 35.1%, I'd take a guy who shot over 40% for numerous seasons (he did it last season in Toronto so it's not like he's washed) over him in three point shooting.

You’re a metrics guy.  Can you point me to something showing that he was particularly good at shooting or defense last year? 

[Moranis]

The Lakers are getting fleeced in this trade , a middling efficiency point guard who creates at a moderate rate (he can definitely play off the ball, but I'd assume the Lakers would want him to run the offence when LeBron is resting) isn't what they really need compared to one of the best 3 and D players in the league. Feel that they can sign some perimeter firepower in FA and have those players share offensive duties with KCP when LeBron is resting.

One of the best 3 and D guys?  Not last year. 36% perimeter shooting and okay defense only.

Schroder was a better outside shooter last year.

Don't think his defence was just okay last year - he was able to defend the wing positions (and even a bit of guard) at a pretty high level, he was a key cog for the Laker defence being so elite.

And Schroeder's next best season from three was 35.1%, I'd take a guy who shot over 40% for numerous seasons (he did it last season in Toronto so it's not like he's washed) over him in three point shooting.

Schroder is creating his own shot, not just standing around wide open waiting for a pass from guys like Lowry or Lebron.  And Green has gotten considerably worse during the playoffs with his shooting, you know when he plays more minutes, the defenses are better, etc.  Green may not be washed, but he is definitely on the downswing and his defense is no where near what it once was.  Schroder is a significantly better player than Green right now.  It isn't close.  And Schroder will be much more impactful for the Lakers as they need another ball handler and creator next to Lebron (who really is the only guy on the team that is even good at those things). 

Also, I assume Bradley (and McGee) will opt into his contract and I think the Schroder fit makes way more sense with Bradley.  Schroder, Bradley, James, Davis, and McGee is a much better starting 5 than they had with Green instead of Schroder (KCP only started because Bradley opted out of the bubble).  I have no idea who else they will bring back (KCP, Howard, Rondo, Morris, Dudley, and Waiters are all free agents), but I suspect they bring a few back and they will absolutely add someone else with the MLE.

[scottwedman]

It's not like they added Damian Lillard, but the Lakers got better.

Green was a nice glue guy and team defender who was - as often as not - an offensive liability because of his drop off in 3-point shooting.  Finding wing defenders with inconsistent/middling 3 point shooting is not hard.  Finding 19 ppg guards who can create their own shots, hit 3s at a decent clip AND defend opposing PG is very hard.

If the Lakers know that Rondo and or Bradley are leaving, this is just about as good a move as they can hope to make.

[sirnastee]

I hope the Lakers resign Rondo so they can play Rondo and German Rondo at the same time!

[Jvalin]

The Lakers are getting fleeced in this trade , a middling efficiency point guard who creates at a moderate rate (he can definitely play off the ball, but I'd assume the Lakers would want him to run the offence when LeBron is resting) isn't what they really need compared to one of the best 3 and D players in the league. Feel that they can sign some perimeter firepower in FA and have those players share offensive duties with KCP when LeBron is resting.

One of the best 3 and D guys?  Not last year. 36% perimeter shooting and okay defense only.

Schroder was a better outside shooter last year.

Don't think his defence was just okay last year - he was able to defend the wing positions (and even a bit of guard) at a pretty high level, he was a key cog for the Laker defence being so elite.

And Schroeder's next best season from three was 35.1%, I'd take a guy who shot over 40% for numerous seasons (he did it last season in Toronto so it's not like he's washed) over him in three point shooting.

You’re a metrics guy.  Can you point me to something showing that he was particularly good at shooting or defense last year?

2019/20 regular season

Defense
Defensive box plus/minus: +1.5
Defensive win shares: 2.5 (his worst number since the 2011/12 season, but still pretty good)
Defensive RAPTOR: +2.1

Shooting
eFG%: 54.2
TS%: 55.2 (league average was 56.3)

Exluding TS%, all the other figures are above league average (to say the least).