Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft - VOTES ARE IN

[Jvalin]

Well, the spurs right now have a bully ball lineup
Lowry/Gervin/McGinnis/Ibaka/Laimbeer

we have a small ball lineup
Blaylock/Reggie/Gervin/Hawkins/Ibaka

we have a super small, ultra fast lineup
Blaylock/Reggie/Gervin/McGinnis/Hawkins

We have a defensive lineup
Blaylock/Lowry/McGinnis/Ibaka/Laimbeer

What we need is a 3 point shooting lineup

So with the 8(7) pick the spurs select Kyle Korver and his 49.2% quick trigger 3pt shooting on 6 attempts per game from the 2014-2015 season





And now we have a 3pt lineup
Lowry/Reggie/Korver/Ibaka/Laimbeer

Nice! Reggie and Korver are 2 of the best shooters of all time!

[Darth_Yoda]

Well, the spurs right now have a bully ball lineup
Lowry/Gervin/McGinnis/Ibaka/Laimbeer

we have a small ball lineup
Blaylock/Reggie/Gervin/Hawkins/Ibaka

we have a super small, ultra fast lineup
Blaylock/Reggie/Gervin/McGinnis/Hawkins

We have a defensive lineup
Blaylock/Lowry/McGinnis/Ibaka/Laimbeer

What we need is a 3 point shooting lineup

So with the 8(7) pick the spurs select Kyle Korver and his 49.2% quick trigger 3pt shooting on 6 attempts per game from the 2014-2015 season





And now we have a 3pt lineup
Lowry/Reggie/Korver/Ibaka/Laimbeer

Nice! Reggie + Korver off the bench! 2 of the best shooters of all time!

I like my team, it really rounding out well now, imo.

[Moranis]

With their 8th round pick, the Toronto Raptors are going old school and selecting George Mikan.

Any time you can get a player that was the unquestioned best player in the world on the best team in the world for a 6 year period (it was actually longer but he wasn't in the NBA his first couple of seasons), you have to sign up for it.  I know it is hard to judge players from that long ago, but Mikan was 6'10" and 245 pounds, so he had modern size.  He was an 80ish percent foul shooter (he shot them underhand) and led the league in both scoring and rebounding several seasons.  And he won 5 titles in that 6 year period in the NBA (he also won the 2 preceding NBL titles before joining the BAA/NBA).  He predates the MVP award, though actually won the NBL MVP in 1948 before the Lakers joined the BAA/NBA.

So the Raptors are happy to welcome some size to their bench.

Is Mikan Available?

He was the number 1 pick in the PBL dispersal Draft, but was just signed by his team in the PBL.

I have no idea.  I know I specifically asked a vague question before we started drafting about the NBL players. Not sure it was answered.  I can pick someone else if required, but Milan was not drafted so I thought he was available

I believe it was stated that Territorial picks we not allowed, but Mikan falls into another spot.

Makes no difference to me at all personally, I would not have drafted him.

He isn't a territorial pick either.  Why I thought he was available to be drafted.  If a determination is made he isn't, I will draft someone else, but I want to know before another pick is made so I can get my back-up plan.

I would say that he's eligible for this draft. Really good player btw, I actually scouted him a lot before shying away from him due to era concerns (he did dominate Dolph Schayes though).

It is so hard to judge players from then, but he wasn't that far removed from the Russell/Cousy era either, and as I said, when you can draft the guy that is unquestioned the best player in the world on the best team in the world for 6 years (8 really if you count his pre-NBA days), it is hard to pass that up in the 8th round, even if he played so long ago. 

[Moranis]

Darn.  I was hoping Korver would fall, as I wanted to claim I had the 3 greatest SF shooters available and now I can't do that since Korver is clearly the top of that class and a top 5 shooter of all time.

He wouldn't have fallen to you. He was my pick this round.

I went with Mikan because I have Peja and Kiki already and needed the size.  Plus, Mikan was just a better all around player than Korver.  Korver isn't the easiest guy to play in these sorts of things because he is such a bad defender and doesn't do much aside from shoot.  His shooting is the best available in the game though, so there is clearly value in having him because everyone will eventually need a 3 and there is no one better than him at getting those. 

[Who]

I wouldn't have included George Mikan but no clear distinction was made before the draft so if others are fine with it, I'm fine with.

So what is his valuation? Is Mikan a more dominant Moses Malone? The best big man in the draft?

[Darth_Yoda]

I wouldn't have included George Mikan but no clear distinction was made before the draft so if others are fine with it, I'm fine with.

So what is his valuation? Is Mikan a more dominant Moses Malone? The best big man in the draft?

No. imo.

[Moranis]

I wouldn't have included George Mikan but no clear distinction was made before the draft so if others are fine with it, I'm fine with.

So what is his valuation? Is Mikan a more dominant Moses Malone? The best big man in the draft?

I think where I took him is around his value because it is so hard to classify the players from that era.  I mean in 1950 (the season I selected), the league average FG% was 34%.  Teams only scored 80 ppg.  They played 66 to 68 games in the season.  It was just a different game, so it is really hard to judge the players, which is why I'm sure several people wouldn't have drafted Mikan at all.  That said, he was the best player in the world and on the best team, so there has to be value in that.  But no he isn't Moses Malone.  Not even close.  We've all seen what Moses could do in a game that much more closely resembles modern basketball 

[Jvalin]

With the 8th pick of the 8th round, the Milwaukee Bucks select Nikola Vučević.



According to the advanced stats, he's the 3rd best Center in the draft.

Value Over Replacement Player (career high in a single season)
1. Jokic 7.0
2. Moses 5.5
2. Vucevic 5.5

Box Plus/Minus (career high in a single season)
1. Jokic +9.1
2. Arvydas Sabonis +6.7
3. Vucevic +6.6
(...)
7. Moses +4.5

I'm not arguing he's a top 3 Center in the draft, but he's definitely in the top 10 in my book. Top 3 shooting Center as well alongside Jokic and Arvydas Sabonis.

I don't have a rim protector, but that's fine. Vucevic ain't strong enough to defend tradition bigs in the paint. Traditional bigs aren't mobile enough to defend Vucevic on the perimeter. Fwiw, he shot 36.4% from 3 on 2.9 attempts per game in 2018/19 (this is the season I plan to select).

[Somebody]

With their 8th round pick, the Toronto Raptors are going old school and selecting George Mikan.

Any time you can get a player that was the unquestioned best player in the world on the best team in the world for a 6 year period (it was actually longer but he wasn't in the NBA his first couple of seasons), you have to sign up for it.  I know it is hard to judge players from that long ago, but Mikan was 6'10" and 245 pounds, so he had modern size.  He was an 80ish percent foul shooter (he shot them underhand) and led the league in both scoring and rebounding several seasons.  And he won 5 titles in that 6 year period in the NBA (he also won the 2 preceding NBL titles before joining the BAA/NBA).  He predates the MVP award, though actually won the NBL MVP in 1948 before the Lakers joined the BAA/NBA.

So the Raptors are happy to welcome some size to their bench.

Is Mikan Available?

He was the number 1 pick in the PBL dispersal Draft, but was just signed by his team in the PBL.

I have no idea.  I know I specifically asked a vague question before we started drafting about the NBL players. Not sure it was answered.  I can pick someone else if required, but Milan was not drafted so I thought he was available

I believe it was stated that Territorial picks we not allowed, but Mikan falls into another spot.

Makes no difference to me at all personally, I would not have drafted him.

He isn't a territorial pick either.  Why I thought he was available to be drafted.  If a determination is made he isn't, I will draft someone else, but I want to know before another pick is made so I can get my back-up plan.

I would say that he's eligible for this draft. Really good player btw, I actually scouted him a lot before shying away from him due to era concerns (he did dominate Dolph Schayes though).

It is so hard to judge players from then, but he wasn't that far removed from the Russell/Cousy era either, and as I said, when you can draft the guy that is unquestioned the best player in the world on the best team in the world for 6 years (8 really if you count his pre-NBA days), it is hard to pass that up in the 8th round, even if he played so long ago.

The biggest question about his game is that he didn't play against a lot of players who would go on to be really good players in the Russell/Pettit era save Schayes and a couple of others. It doesn't help that there is little to no footage of him to make a qualitative analysis of his game either (there's a scouting video on him on YouTube, but there's nothing that beats full games against good competition).

I like his game enough that I can see him being a star in this format though, probably something like Vlade who sacrifices shooting and passing for better post scoring on offence, and mobility for rim protection on defence.

[Who]

With the 8th pick of the 8th round, the Milwaukee Bucks select Nikola Vučević.

According to the advanced stats, he's the 3rd best Center in the draft.

Value Over Replacement Player (career high in a single season)
1. Jokic 7.0
2. Moses 5.5
2. Vucevic 5.5

Box Plus/Minus (career high in a single season)
1. Jokic +9.1
2. Arvydas Sabonis +6.7
3. Vucevic +6.6

I'm not arguing he's a top 3 Center in the draft, but he's definitely in the top 10 in my book. Top 3 shooting Center as well alongside Jokic and Arvydas Sabonis.

I don't have a rim protector, but that's fine. Vucevic ain't strong enough to defend tradition bigs in the paint. Traditional bigs aren't mobile enough to defend Vucevic on the perimeter. Fwiw, he shot 36.4% from 3 on 2.9 attempts per game in 2018/19 (this is the season I plan to select).

That is the third guy I was thinking about between J.O'Neal, Issel and Vucevic. All 3 were on my shortlist in the 5th round to be my starting center (along with Divac and Laimbeer). I was surprised so many of them were still available then and even more surprised that they lasted so late into the bench selections.

Great pick.

[Somebody]

With the 8th pick of the 8th round, the Milwaukee Bucks select Nikola Vučević.



According to the advanced stats, he's the 3rd best Center in the draft.

Value Over Replacement Player (career high in a single season)
1. Jokic 7.0
2. Moses 5.5
2. Vucevic 5.5

Box Plus/Minus (career high in a single season)
1. Jokic +9.1
2. Arvydas Sabonis +6.7
3. Vucevic +6.6

I'm not arguing he's a top 3 Center in the draft, but he's definitely in the top 10 in my book. Top 3 shooting Center as well alongside Jokic and Arvydas Sabonis.

I don't have a rim protector, but that's fine. Vucevic ain't strong enough to defend tradition bigs in the paint. Traditional bigs aren't mobile enough to defend Vucevic on the perimeter. Fwiw, he shot 36.4% from 3 on 2.9 attempts per game in 2018/19 (this is the season I plan to select).

Huh. I actually view him as a bruiser who can shoot threes and pass - I'm not impressed with Vooch's mobility on the perimeter, but I liked his physicality and power inside from the Magic games I've watched.

[nickagneta]

With the 9th pick in Round 8 of the 2021 Historical Draft the Phoenix Suns select:



HEDO TURKOGLU

[Somebody]

With the 9th pick in Round 8 of the 2021 Historical Draft the Phoenix Suns select:



HEDO TURKOGLU

Very underrated player.

[Moranis]

With their 8th round pick, the Toronto Raptors are going old school and selecting George Mikan.

Any time you can get a player that was the unquestioned best player in the world on the best team in the world for a 6 year period (it was actually longer but he wasn't in the NBA his first couple of seasons), you have to sign up for it.  I know it is hard to judge players from that long ago, but Mikan was 6'10" and 245 pounds, so he had modern size.  He was an 80ish percent foul shooter (he shot them underhand) and led the league in both scoring and rebounding several seasons.  And he won 5 titles in that 6 year period in the NBA (he also won the 2 preceding NBL titles before joining the BAA/NBA).  He predates the MVP award, though actually won the NBL MVP in 1948 before the Lakers joined the BAA/NBA.

So the Raptors are happy to welcome some size to their bench.

Is Mikan Available?

He was the number 1 pick in the PBL dispersal Draft, but was just signed by his team in the PBL.

I have no idea.  I know I specifically asked a vague question before we started drafting about the NBL players. Not sure it was answered.  I can pick someone else if required, but Milan was not drafted so I thought he was available

I believe it was stated that Territorial picks we not allowed, but Mikan falls into another spot.

Makes no difference to me at all personally, I would not have drafted him.

He isn't a territorial pick either.  Why I thought he was available to be drafted.  If a determination is made he isn't, I will draft someone else, but I want to know before another pick is made so I can get my back-up plan.

I would say that he's eligible for this draft. Really good player btw, I actually scouted him a lot before shying away from him due to era concerns (he did dominate Dolph Schayes though).

It is so hard to judge players from then, but he wasn't that far removed from the Russell/Cousy era either, and as I said, when you can draft the guy that is unquestioned the best player in the world on the best team in the world for 6 years (8 really if you count his pre-NBA days), it is hard to pass that up in the 8th round, even if he played so long ago.

The biggest question about his game is that he didn't play against a lot of players who would go on to be really good players in the Russell/Pettit era save Schayes and a couple of others. It doesn't help that there is little to no footage of him to make a qualitative analysis of his game either (there's a scouting video on him on YouTube, but there's nothing that beats full games against good competition).

I like his game enough that I can see him being a star in this format though, probably something like Vlade who sacrifices shooting and passing for better post scoring on offence, and mobility for rim protection on defence.

Schayes, Foust, and a few others that could technically be drafted, but yeah not many.  They did handle the Knicks in 53 in the Finals and the Knicks did beat the Cousy Celtics in the semis (the beat Schayes' Nationals in 54 who also beat the Cousy Celtics).  Again, that is what is so hard about Mikan and why a guy that was clearly the best player in the league for so many seasons, lasted so long (and may have lasted longer).  For me, I just couldn't pass him up as my 4th big.  Just thought the value was too great to pass up. 

[Darth_Yoda]

Do not like Hedu.

He had a good season offensively, but was abysmal defensively.

Also really bad at turnovers.
5 assists in 2007-2008 and 3 turnovers. (I assume that is the season being picked)