Author Topic: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft - VOTES ARE IN  (Read 222368 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #345 on: November 30, 2020, 01:29:26 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • Moderator
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48121
  • Tommy Points: 8800
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
Maybe with just ten GMs we should have gone 2 rounds from the start. This went awfully fast

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #346 on: November 30, 2020, 01:31:32 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • Moderator
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48121
  • Tommy Points: 8800
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
Willing to discuss trading my 2(9) and another pick for a 3th and 4th rounder. PM me.

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #347 on: November 30, 2020, 01:32:12 PM »

Offline Darth_Yoda

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1129
  • Tommy Points: 52
Maybe with just ten GMs we should have gone 2 rounds from the start. This went awfully fast

Lets let it roll. Keep going!
'21 Historical Draft
PG: Kyle Lowry / Mookie Blaylock / Mark Jackson
SG: Reggie Miller / Jeff Hornacek / Nick Anderson
SF: George Gervin / George McGinnis / Kyle Korver
PF: Connie Hawkins / Serge Ibaka / Josh Smith
C: Clint Capela / Bill Laimbeer / Jusuf Nurkic

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #348 on: November 30, 2020, 01:48:54 PM »

Offline Somebody

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7819
  • Tommy Points: 562
  • STAND FIRM, SAY NO TO VIBE MEN
Maybe with just ten GMs we should have gone 2 rounds from the start. This went awfully fast

Lets let it roll. Keep going!
Gouki is currently asleep and I will soon follow.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #349 on: November 30, 2020, 01:50:51 PM »

Offline Darth_Yoda

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1129
  • Tommy Points: 52
Maybe with just ten GMs we should have gone 2 rounds from the start. This went awfully fast

Lets let it roll. Keep going!
Gouki is currently asleep and I will soon follow.

Tough it out!
'21 Historical Draft
PG: Kyle Lowry / Mookie Blaylock / Mark Jackson
SG: Reggie Miller / Jeff Hornacek / Nick Anderson
SF: George Gervin / George McGinnis / Kyle Korver
PF: Connie Hawkins / Serge Ibaka / Josh Smith
C: Clint Capela / Bill Laimbeer / Jusuf Nurkic

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #350 on: November 30, 2020, 01:56:18 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34434
  • Tommy Points: 1593
Put together a list finally.  Some really great players still around.  Everyone should have 3 very good players at least and then some nice quality depth after that.  Very difficult to really gauge what I want do around Malone and even more difficult to anticipate how this draft will go.  Just so many unique skill sets out there with the more flawed players at the top than we usually see in these.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #351 on: November 30, 2020, 02:09:48 PM »

Offline Darth_Yoda

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1129
  • Tommy Points: 52
Put together a list finally.  Some really great players still around.  Everyone should have 3 very good players at least and then some nice quality depth after that.  Very difficult to really gauge what I want do around Malone and even more difficult to anticipate how this draft will go.  Just so many unique skill sets out there with the more flawed players at the top than we usually see in these.

I dont think I will end up with 3 "very good players" I need to try and round out the roster with the good players.

I have to wait 19 picks after my next one, I dont belive there will be very good players left at 30, but I have a plan, so will see I guess. Gonna be a really hard wait.

Smart thing is just to keep the thread closed after my pick tomorrow until about 30 mins before my 3rd pick on Wednesday so I dont go crazy.
'21 Historical Draft
PG: Kyle Lowry / Mookie Blaylock / Mark Jackson
SG: Reggie Miller / Jeff Hornacek / Nick Anderson
SF: George Gervin / George McGinnis / Kyle Korver
PF: Connie Hawkins / Serge Ibaka / Josh Smith
C: Clint Capela / Bill Laimbeer / Jusuf Nurkic

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #352 on: November 30, 2020, 02:14:25 PM »

Online Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 52405
  • Tommy Points: 2554
I didn't have Jokic this high and thought he would be a perfect 5 alongside Giannis as a possible drop down the draft type player. Like maybe high 3rd round but I most likely would have taken him late in the 2nd round as I wouldn't have trusted Who not to grab him.

Oh yeah, definitely! I love Jokic.

I had Jokic in my tier 1 list of 8 players (top 6 plus Nash and Jokic). Jokic is fantastic. I love the way he passes the ball. He single handedly gives you an offense. How many centers can do that? Very few. How many high post centers can do that? Even fewer. Jokic and Bill Walton. 

Jokic makes everyone around him better. He is that Larry Bird like quality of making people around him be more unselfish because he himself is so unselfish. Creation of team spirit / brotherhood / shared commitment.

I love all that.

Jokic is a great guy to build around. I love players who make people around them better and Jokic does that better offensively than any non-PG in this draft.

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #353 on: November 30, 2020, 02:18:16 PM »

Offline Darth_Yoda

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1129
  • Tommy Points: 52
I didn't have Jokic this high and thought he would be a perfect 5 alongside Giannis as a possible drop down the draft type player. Like maybe high 3rd round but I most likely would have taken him late in the 2nd round as I wouldn't have trusted Who not to grab him.

Oh yeah, definitely! I love Jokic.

I had Jokic in my tier 1 list of 8 players (top 6 plus Nash and Jokic). Jokic is fantastic. I love the way he passes the ball. He single handedly gives you an offense. How many centers can do that? Very few. How many high post centers can do that? Even fewer. Jokic and Bill Walton. 

Jokic makes everyone around him better. He is that Larry Bird like quality of making people around him be more unselfish because he himself is so unselfish. Creation of team spirit / brotherhood / shared commitment.

I love all that.

Jokic is a great guy to build around. I love players who make people around them better and Jokic does that better offensively than any non-PG in this draft.

Jokic is a tough defensive assignment for many of, if not all of, the centers available.
'21 Historical Draft
PG: Kyle Lowry / Mookie Blaylock / Mark Jackson
SG: Reggie Miller / Jeff Hornacek / Nick Anderson
SF: George Gervin / George McGinnis / Kyle Korver
PF: Connie Hawkins / Serge Ibaka / Josh Smith
C: Clint Capela / Bill Laimbeer / Jusuf Nurkic

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #354 on: November 30, 2020, 02:36:38 PM »

Offline Jvalin

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3739
  • Tommy Points: 737
Seems a bit early for Jokic.  Certainly could end up in the pantheon one day, but seems a bit early for me for a guy that isn't an elite scorer nor a very good defender.  Certainly an excellent all around offensive player and the best passing big man available, I just think it was a touch early for him.

Not many multiple MVP's available, though I do worry about Nash's defense.  Pair him with some strong wing defenders and I think he could be all right, they just have to fit with him offensively which is far more difficult in this given the dearth of excellent 2-way players. 

But these last two picks are why I think this draft will be like no other.  Even the 1st round picks have real flaws, which makes this so exciting and interesting.
I would argue he's a better defender than Moses. He ain't quick enough to defend the perimeter, but he's a massively underrated PnR defender.

https://fadeawayworld.net/2020/02/27/nba-expert-nikola-jokic-is-the-best-pick-and-roll-defender-in-the-league/

He's also a big presence in the paint thanks to his length/strength. He allowed 0.71 PPP when posted up last season, which ranks in the 83.9th percentile. Moses had short hands, which held him back on the defensive side of the ball.
While the sample size is pretty good, I think it doesn't quite capture Jokic's defensive weaknesses. Jokic's anticipation and hands make him pretty good at defending the PnR as long as the ballhandler isn't great at shooting off the dribble to force him to step outside. Most teams in the NBA don't have ballhandlers who can Steph Curry Denver to death, so Jokic gets some really good PnR numbers as result. But I think we'll have a good amount of teams who'll select guards who can do that and Jokic will likely struggle guarding such offensive dynamos. Jokic is also weak at defending the PnP: his lack of quickness makes it difficult for him to close out on popping bigs effectively in such actions.
So basically he can't defend guys like Steph on the perimeter. Not many bigs can do that anyway.

There are 3 ways to defend the pick n roll:

1. go under the pick
2. go over the pick
3. switch (This is what the C's do whenever our starting Center is on the court. Can't name him cause he's eligible to be drafted. :P)

How do the Nuggets defend the PnR against guys like Steph?

- Going under the pick vs Steph would be a terrible choice cause he'd just shoot an open 3. Option 1 is off the table.
- Switching isn't an option either cause Jokic ain't quick enough to stay in front of Steph on the perimeter.
- That leaves them with the 2nd option: go over the pick. Their guard defender denies the open shot for Steph. At the same time, Jokic drops back to protect the rim in case Steph passes the ball to the roller. It's a perfectly viable defensive scheme. In fact, the Nuggets allowed 0.84 PPP when defending the PnR ball handler last season (7th best in the league). Just because the C's switch, it doesn't mean that all teams should do the same thing. Fwiw, the C's allowed 0.86 PPP (8th in the league).
« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 03:07:08 PM by Jvalin »

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #355 on: November 30, 2020, 02:51:42 PM »

Online Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 52405
  • Tommy Points: 2554
It is going to be very hard to switch on defense in this historical league anyway. Almost all the top PGs are small PGs who will die on switches. Several of the centers (like Moses or Karl Malone) are far too big and strong for even wings to (frequently) switch onto.

So guys are going to be stuck playing man D most of the time.

I expect team defenses to more resemble the 2008 Celtics than the the 2020 Celtics. Two bigs. Shot blockers. Close the paint. Show or trap on PnRs then recover.

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #356 on: November 30, 2020, 02:52:24 PM »

Offline Jvalin

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3739
  • Tommy Points: 737
I didn't have Jokic this high and thought he would be a perfect 5 alongside Giannis as a possible drop down the draft type player. Like maybe high 3rd round but I most likely would have taken him late in the 2nd round as I wouldn't have trusted Who not to grab him.
Judging by Yoda's reaction, he wouldn't have made it past #11. I had him as a surefire first rounder. Would have been perfectly happy with either Jokic or Stockton at #8. Both elite playmakers. Jokic is a more unique talent. If it were up to me, I would have probably opted for Stockton, mainly because it is easier to build a team around him. He simply had zero weaknesses. Can't say the same thing about any other player drafted in the 1st round.

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #357 on: November 30, 2020, 02:59:17 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34434
  • Tommy Points: 1593
Put together a list finally.  Some really great players still around.  Everyone should have 3 very good players at least and then some nice quality depth after that.  Very difficult to really gauge what I want do around Malone and even more difficult to anticipate how this draft will go.  Just so many unique skill sets out there with the more flawed players at the top than we usually see in these.

I dont think I will end up with 3 "very good players" I need to try and round out the roster with the good players.

I have to wait 19 picks after my next one, I dont belive there will be very good players left at 30, but I have a plan, so will see I guess. Gonna be a really hard wait.

Smart thing is just to keep the thread closed after my pick tomorrow until about 30 mins before my 3rd pick on Wednesday so I dont go crazy.
I think you will end up pleasantly surprised.  There are plenty of HOFers left and plenty more that had HOF peaks (though didn't last long enough for various reasons to make the HOF).  There are definitely different tiers in that group, but still will be plenty of talent on the board at 30.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #358 on: November 30, 2020, 03:01:58 PM »

Offline Jvalin

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3739
  • Tommy Points: 737
Quote from: Adrian Wojnarowski
The Bucks are open to the idea of trading their 13th pick, league sources tell ESPN.

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #359 on: November 30, 2020, 03:05:51 PM »

Online Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 52405
  • Tommy Points: 2554
Put together a list finally.  Some really great players still around.  Everyone should have 3 very good players at least and then some nice quality depth after that.  Very difficult to really gauge what I want do around Malone and even more difficult to anticipate how this draft will go.  Just so many unique skill sets out there with the more flawed players at the top than we usually see in these.

I dont think I will end up with 3 "very good players" I need to try and round out the roster with the good players.

I have to wait 19 picks after my next one, I dont belive there will be very good players left at 30, but I have a plan, so will see I guess. Gonna be a really hard wait.

Smart thing is just to keep the thread closed after my pick tomorrow until about 30 mins before my 3rd pick on Wednesday so I dont go crazy.
I think you will end up pleasantly surprised.  There are plenty of HOFers left and plenty more that had HOF peaks (though didn't last long enough for various reasons to make the HOF).  There are definitely different tiers in that group, but still will be plenty of talent on the board at 30.

Yeah I got All-Stars on the board until rounds 9 or 10.

Even then there will be some still left around. It will just be a choice between them or a guy just below that level who may be more well rounded or a better fit.

It is basically an All-Star squad.