Ainge's no-trade promise to Hayward will determine Gordon's fate as Celtic

[ozgod]

I think that Gordon’s agent is going to illegally illicit offers on Gordon before his opt out deadline, because that’s what every team and agent engages in.

If there is $100 million or so on the table, he’ll opt out.  Whether he stays in Boston depends on whether Danny will come reasonably close to matching salary.

I think you are oversimplifying the process.  It is more nuanced, and other factors than $$ are involved.

As I said, the money has to be reasonably close.

I don’t think it’s all that much more complicated than that.  The other factors usually don’t come into play if the money isn’t there.

So if Charlotte offers Gordon 4 years for $110 mm, and Boston tells Gordon best we can do is 4 years at $90 mm, Gordon signs up with Charlotte, and plays out his career with an awful team, while his mates play deep in the playoffs those for years. 

Got it.

Probably.  $20 million is a lot of money, and he already signed in Charlotte once if memory serves.  They were pretty terrible back then, but it didn’t stop GH from signing an offer sheet.

I know that it shocks some, but people generally don’t like to work for significantly less than their market value:

It could also be that there's usually a disconnect between the player's market value and fans' perceptions of his market value 

[Roy H.]

Hayward will not be giving the C's any home town discounts...He could have signed here for a little less 3 years ago and helped the team's roster...but he got the absolute Max that he could.

Eh, he took less money than he would have gotten in Utah.  Did his signing cost us anybody?  I can’t remember.

[NKY fan]

Hayward will not be giving the C's any home town discounts...He could have signed here for a little less 3 years ago and helped the team's roster...but he got the absolute Max that he could.

Eh, he took less money than he would have gotten in Utah.  Did his signing cost us anybody?  I can’t remember.

Olynyk was let go and Bradley plus a second round pick were traded to Detroit for Marcus Morris. Also Demetrius Jackson contract was stretched over 7 years. All these moves or non moves were done to clear 30% of the cap at the time

[Roy H.]

Hayward will not be giving the C's any home town discounts...He could have signed here for a little less 3 years ago and helped the team's roster...but he got the absolute Max that he could.

Eh, he took less money than he would have gotten in Utah.  Did his signing cost us anybody?  I can’t remember.

Olynyk was let go and Bradley plus a second round pick were traded to Detroit for Marcus Morris. Also Demetrius Jackson contract was stretched over 7 years. All these moves or non moves were done to clear 30% of the cap at the time

Thanks for the reminder.

As I recall, there were some cap machinations we could have done to keep KO, but Danny declined.  We did have to trade AB, but that saved us about $4 million.  Over the course of a four year deal, that would have cost Hayward $18 million or so, in addition to what he gave up by leaving Utah.   I don’t see $18 million as a “little less”, especially with Miami also having a full max contract on the table.

[NKY fan]

Hayward will not be giving the C's any home town discounts...He could have signed here for a little less 3 years ago and helped the team's roster...but he got the absolute Max that he could.

Eh, he took less money than he would have gotten in Utah.  Did his signing cost us anybody?  I can’t remember.

Olynyk was let go and Bradley plus a second round pick were traded to Detroit for Marcus Morris. Also Demetrius Jackson contract was stretched over 7 years. All these moves or non moves were done to clear 30% of the cap at the time

Thanks for the reminder.

As I recall, there were some cap machinations we could have done to keep KO, but Danny declined.  We did have to trade AB, but that saved us about $4 million.  Over the course of a four year deal, that would have cost Hayward $18 million or so, in addition to what he gave up by leaving Utah.   I don’t see $18 million as a “little less”, especially with Miami also having a full max contract on the table.

You welcome !
I

[footey]

Hayward will not be giving the C's any home town discounts...He could have signed here for a little less 3 years ago and helped the team's roster...but he got the absolute Max that he could.

Eh, he took less money than he would have gotten in Utah.  Did his signing cost us anybody?  I can’t remember.

Thanks for reminding me that he took less money to sign with Celtics rather than Jazz.  Not always just about the money.

[LilRip]

Hayward will not be giving the C's any home town discounts...He could have signed here for a little less 3 years ago and helped the team's roster...but he got the absolute Max that he could.

Eh, he took less money than he would have gotten in Utah.  Did his signing cost us anybody?  I can’t remember.

Thanks for reminding me that he took less money to sign with Celtics rather than Jazz.  Not always just about the money.

Isn’t that misleading? Didn’t the C’s give the max they could give but it’s just that the CBA allows incumbent teams to pay their free agents more?

[footey]

Hayward will not be giving the C's any home town discounts...He could have signed here for a little less 3 years ago and helped the team's roster...but he got the absolute Max that he could.

Eh, he took less money than he would have gotten in Utah.  Did his signing cost us anybody?  I can’t remember.

Thanks for reminding me that he took less money to sign with Celtics rather than Jazz.  Not always just about the money.

Isn’t that misleading? Didn’t the C’s give the max they could give but it’s just that the CBA allows incumbent teams to pay their free agents more?

That's not the point.  Hayward could have signed for more money, extra year, if he re-signed with Jazz 3 years ago, but decided to sign for less money with Boston.   My original point is that Hayward will still consider other factors than just a monetary decision on his next deal. 

[td450]

I think that Gordon’s agent is going to illegally illicit offers on Gordon before his opt out deadline, because that’s what every team and agent engages in.

If there is $100 million or so on the table, he’ll opt out.  Whether he stays in Boston depends on whether Danny will come reasonably close to matching salary.

I think you are oversimplifying the process.  It is more nuanced, and other factors than $$ are involved.

As I said, the money has to be reasonably close.

I don’t think it’s all that much more complicated than that.  The other factors usually don’t come into play if the money isn’t there.

So if Charlotte offers Gordon 4 years for $110 mm, and Boston tells Gordon best we can do is 4 years at $90 mm, Gordon signs up with Charlotte, and plays out his career with an awful team, while his mates play deep in the playoffs those for years. 

Got it.

We owe Hayward $34M for one year. It seems odd to me that the C's wouldn't match a deal for $110M. Marginally, that's a 3 year $76M extension. I think it would be pretty dumb to pass on that.

If money matters that much, it's a bad basketball decision to let Hayward go for these numbers and keep Kemba. If I have to give away a draft choice or two to move Kemba instead of Hayward, I'd rather do that any day of the week. He's a very good two way basketball player with excellent size at the wing, and he's a passer.

[tenn_smoothie]

I find it absurd that Hayward is "seeking long-term security."

If his paydays from what would be four years in Boston at $30M+ per season have not secured his future financial security, his children's future, their children's future and so on, then he has badly mis-managed his money, which I doubt. Even one year @ $30M should do the trick quite nicely.

[philr13]

3. Opt in, on a sign a trade, in which Celts agree to trade him to a team that Hayward wants to go to. Indiana comes up the most here, logically, since he and his wife grew up there, they own a house there, and the Pacers have some interesting trade capital (Daniels, Oladipo).   

Technically, he would have to opt-out to make a sign-and-trade happen.

I only see this happening if Hayward requests it. Otherwise, I think the most likely outcome is that he opts-out and signs a new multi-year deal with Boston.

If he simply opts-in without negotiating a new contract, I think he gets traded to who ever the Celts get the best deal from.

[Big333223]

Hayward's stock must be pretty low right now, doesn't it? Another injury at the end of a season where he was maybe the 4th best player on his team.

He'll only be 31 at the end of next season. It feels, to me, like the offers he'll get a year from now (if he opts in) are going to be pretty much the same as what he'll get this year, unless he has another bad injury.

[tstorey_97]

He was signed as part of Ainge's attempt at setting up for Anthony Davis.

The above fell through....Kyrie departed. He was not brought here to be an integral part of the resulting Celtics core which, at this moment is Brown, Tatum and to a lesser extent Smart.

Take a look at the roster for the last two years....your center is Daniel Theis. There is no core or structure or basis for a front court because that process got chucked trying to get Anthony Davis.

Hayward was part of "that"... he is not part of this.

Ainge's only "promise" is to the billion dollar team ownership group and that is to win.

If you don't agree? How does Hayward have a "player option?"
It was a safety valve set for him and his agent. Today's "Hayward scenario" was planned for when he signed the deal. Every team/agent/GM in the league knows and has known about Hayward's situation from day one. They are paid a lot of money to know everything about every player and they do.

"If the Celtics don't sign Davis it's a rebuild." And that is exactly what happened.

Gambling occurs in lots of venues, not just casinos.

[LilRip]

Hayward will not be giving the C's any home town discounts...He could have signed here for a little less 3 years ago and helped the team's roster...but he got the absolute Max that he could.

Eh, he took less money than he would have gotten in Utah.  Did his signing cost us anybody?  I can’t remember.

Thanks for reminding me that he took less money to sign with Celtics rather than Jazz.  Not always just about the money.

Isn’t that misleading? Didn’t the C’s give the max they could give but it’s just that the CBA allows incumbent teams to pay their free agents more?

That's not the point.  Hayward could have signed for more money, extra year, if he re-signed with Jazz 3 years ago, but decided to sign for less money with Boston.   My original point is that Hayward will still consider other factors than just a monetary decision on his next deal.

I guess but if another team offers Hayward the max and we match it (even if we could go higher), that’s not the same thing.

I guess you’re right in the sense that money isn’t the only thing, where more $ isn’t a guarantee someone signs with you. But money talks and there’s no denying that. Hayward isn’t going to sign with us for peanuts or for a discount because of some of the narrative-driven reasons I’ve read on here (aka he loves CBS, he has unfinished business, he owes it to us for being injured so often, there’s nowhere else he can win, etc.)

The money has to be right. Then the other stuff will follow

[footey]

I think that Gordon’s agent is going to illegally illicit offers on Gordon before his opt out deadline, because that’s what every team and agent engages in.

If there is $100 million or so on the table, he’ll opt out.  Whether he stays in Boston depends on whether Danny will come reasonably close to matching salary.

I think you are oversimplifying the process.  It is more nuanced, and other factors than $$ are involved.

As I said, the money has to be reasonably close.

I don’t think it’s all that much more complicated than that.  The other factors usually don’t come into play if the money isn’t there.

So if Charlotte offers Gordon 4 years for $110 mm, and Boston tells Gordon best we can do is 4 years at $90 mm, Gordon signs up with Charlotte, and plays out his career with an awful team, while his mates play deep in the playoffs those for years. 

Got it.

Probably.  $20 million is a lot of money, and he already signed in Charlotte once if memory serves.  They were pretty terrible back then, but it didn’t stop GH from signing an offer sheet.

I know that it shocks some, but people generally don’t like to work for significantly less than their market value:

TP for Roy.