Does Hayward pickup his player option or leave for a longer contract?

[RJ87]

Think the Hayward opts in and Cs try to extend him for a lower AAV.

I don’t think ownership will let danny do that. Unless Hayward takes a 7-8 M a year contract after next season I think he’s gone sooner or later before next season starts.

Huh?? You really think Hayward is only worth $8 mil per??? I think the Cs can get Hayward on an 3 year extension worth around $20 mil per. I think that’s roughly what he’s worth.

If he opts in and has another year like this one he is a MLE player.

He averaged 18,6,5 as the 4th option on the Cs while shooting at a 50/38/86 clip. He’s worth significantly more than the MLE and he’ll get it in this league.

And can't stay healthy. What is the point of being good for 40 games when the season is 82+.

Hayward has only once played 40 games or less, it was when he broke his ankle.

I said being good not games played.

And you're still wrong, because he played really well this season, and he played 52 games in a shortened season. Regardless of any of this, there is a zero percent chance he's only gonna get the MLE, unless some catastrophic injury happens.

I absolutely feel Im right. Just like with Al last year when I said I wouldn't pay him more than the MLE and got heat. Just because a guy might get more doesn't mean that player is worth that money come season time. If Hayward misses any time due to injury and plays like he has here he is a MLE player. Let someone else make the mistake of paying him more.

I don't think Hayward is a max player, but trying to say he's an MLE guy is kind of a joke. He averaged 17.5/6.7/4.1 while flirting with 50/40/90 percentages this season. He's worth at least Reddick/Hardaway Jr. money.

Hayward can average all he wants but if I had to choose between him and rondo for the ECF series against heat I’m picking Rajon and not thinking twice. Rondo makes a third of the MLE

Well yeah, I'd pick the healthy player too. But if they were both healthy, Gordon is far and away the better player.

I know everyone's emotional after being eliminated, but some of these takes are not based in logic.

[NKY fan]

My logic was that playoff rondo is still a thing and he costs very little. He’s the worse player though.
He also was outcoaching Stevens two years ago before he got injured before game 3

[RJ87]

My logic was that playoff rondo is still a thing and he costs very little. He’s the worse player though.
He also was outcoaching Stevens two years ago before he got injured before game 3

Sure playoff Rondo is still a thing, but that's because he mostly coasts during the regular season to the point of being unplayable and only shows up during the playoffs. If Gordon is healthy - a big "if", I know - he is the superior player and you don't have to question which version of him will show up.

[Csfan1984]

Think the Hayward opts in and Cs try to extend him for a lower AAV.

I don’t think ownership will let danny do that. Unless Hayward takes a 7-8 M a year contract after next season I think he’s gone sooner or later before next season starts.

Huh?? You really think Hayward is only worth $8 mil per??? I think the Cs can get Hayward on an 3 year extension worth around $20 mil per. I think that’s roughly what he’s worth.

If he opts in and has another year like this one he is a MLE player.

He averaged 18,6,5 as the 4th option on the Cs while shooting at a 50/38/86 clip. He’s worth significantly more than the MLE and he’ll get it in this league.

And can't stay healthy. What is the point of being good for 40 games when the season is 82+.

Hayward has only once played 40 games or less, it was when he broke his ankle.

I said being good not games played.

And you're still wrong, because he played really well this season, and he played 52 games in a shortened season. Regardless of any of this, there is a zero percent chance he's only gonna get the MLE, unless some catastrophic injury happens.

I absolutely feel Im right. Just like with Al last year when I said I wouldn't pay him more than the MLE and got heat. Just because a guy might get more doesn't mean that player is worth that money come season time. If Hayward misses any time due to injury and plays like he has here he is a MLE player. Let someone else make the mistake of paying him more.

I don't think Hayward is a max player, but trying to say he's an MLE guy is kind of a joke. He averaged 17.5/6.7/4.1 while flirting with 50/40/90 percentages this season. He's worth at least Reddick/Hardaway Jr. money.

If he keeps getting hurt and he can't be counted on then even with those numbers he is a MLE guy. If you want to overpay him be my guest. As I said I took heat for Al and I'm sitting pretty good right now. You ain't moving my opinion.

[RJ87]

Think the Hayward opts in and Cs try to extend him for a lower AAV.

I don’t think ownership will let danny do that. Unless Hayward takes a 7-8 M a year contract after next season I think he’s gone sooner or later before next season starts.

Huh?? You really think Hayward is only worth $8 mil per??? I think the Cs can get Hayward on an 3 year extension worth around $20 mil per. I think that’s roughly what he’s worth.

If he opts in and has another year like this one he is a MLE player.

He averaged 18,6,5 as the 4th option on the Cs while shooting at a 50/38/86 clip. He’s worth significantly more than the MLE and he’ll get it in this league.

And can't stay healthy. What is the point of being good for 40 games when the season is 82+.

Hayward has only once played 40 games or less, it was when he broke his ankle.

I said being good not games played.

And you're still wrong, because he played really well this season, and he played 52 games in a shortened season. Regardless of any of this, there is a zero percent chance he's only gonna get the MLE, unless some catastrophic injury happens.

I absolutely feel Im right. Just like with Al last year when I said I wouldn't pay him more than the MLE and got heat. Just because a guy might get more doesn't mean that player is worth that money come season time. If Hayward misses any time due to injury and plays like he has here he is a MLE player. Let someone else make the mistake of paying him more.

I don't think Hayward is a max player, but trying to say he's an MLE guy is kind of a joke. He averaged 17.5/6.7/4.1 while flirting with 50/40/90 percentages this season. He's worth at least Reddick/Hardaway Jr. money.

If he keeps getting hurt and he can't be counted on then even with those numbers he is a MLE guy. If you want to overpay him be my guest. As I said I took heat for Al and I'm sitting pretty good right now. You ain't moving my opinion.

I don't care about moving your opinion, but you keep throwing things out that aren't actually facts. First, he doesn't play in half of the season's game, then the goalposts were moved that he wasn't good in those games. Again, the stats - surface stats or advanced - don't back you up. If you just don't like the guy, fine. But just say so and say it with your chest lol.

[jambr380]

Think the Hayward opts in and Cs try to extend him for a lower AAV.

I don’t think ownership will let danny do that. Unless Hayward takes a 7-8 M a year contract after next season I think he’s gone sooner or later before next season starts.

Huh?? You really think Hayward is only worth $8 mil per??? I think the Cs can get Hayward on an 3 year extension worth around $20 mil per. I think that’s roughly what he’s worth.

If he opts in and has another year like this one he is a MLE player.

He averaged 18,6,5 as the 4th option on the Cs while shooting at a 50/38/86 clip. He’s worth significantly more than the MLE and he’ll get it in this league.

And can't stay healthy. What is the point of being good for 40 games when the season is 82+.

Hayward has only once played 40 games or less, it was when he broke his ankle.

I said being good not games played.

And you're still wrong, because he played really well this season, and he played 52 games in a shortened season. Regardless of any of this, there is a zero percent chance he's only gonna get the MLE, unless some catastrophic injury happens.

I absolutely feel Im right. Just like with Al last year when I said I wouldn't pay him more than the MLE and got heat. Just because a guy might get more doesn't mean that player is worth that money come season time. If Hayward misses any time due to injury and plays like he has here he is a MLE player. Let someone else make the mistake of paying him more.

I don't think Hayward is a max player, but trying to say he's an MLE guy is kind of a joke. He averaged 17.5/6.7/4.1 while flirting with 50/40/90 percentages this season. He's worth at least Reddick/Hardaway Jr. money.

If he keeps getting hurt and he can't be counted on then even with those numbers he is a MLE guy. If you want to overpay him be my guest. As I said I took heat for Al and I'm sitting pretty good right now. You ain't moving my opinion.

I don't care about moving your opinion, but you keep throwing things out that aren't actually facts. First, he doesn't play in half of the season's game, then the goalposts were moved that he wasn't good in those games. Again, the stats - surface stats or advanced - don't back you up. If you just don't like the guy, fine. But just say so and say it with your chest lol.

He probably should be wording his opinion in a different way, but there is a legitimate discussion to be had about Hayward moving forward. I'd love him to be that shiny 27 y/o all-star we signed back in 2017, but time has not been kind to Hayward. Looking ahead, not only is he on the wrong side of 30, but he has had one devastating injury and - just this year - a couple of others that turned out a lot worse than they actually looked on the court.

Of course a healthy Hayward is worth $20M+ over the next 4 years, but it isn't unreasonable to think that Hayward's best days are behind him. The question becomes, will he age gracefully into his mid-late 30s continuing his crafty all-around game, or will his body continue to let him down? I am pushing for the guy and hope he can put these injuries behind him. These past couple of years must have been really hard on him mentally.

[mrceltics2013]

Think the Hayward opts in and Cs try to extend him for a lower AAV.

I don’t think ownership will let danny do that. Unless Hayward takes a 7-8 M a year contract after next season I think he’s gone sooner or later before next season starts.

Huh?? You really think Hayward is only worth $8 mil per??? I think the Cs can get Hayward on an 3 year extension worth around $20 mil per. I think that’s roughly what he’s worth.

If he opts in and has another year like this one he is a MLE player.

He averaged 18,6,5 as the 4th option on the Cs while shooting at a 50/38/86 clip. He’s worth significantly more than the MLE and he’ll get it in this league.

And can't stay healthy. What is the point of being good for 40 games when the season is 82+.

Hayward has only once played 40 games or less, it was when he broke his ankle.

I said being good not games played.

And you're still wrong, because he played really well this season, and he played 52 games in a shortened season. Regardless of any of this, there is a zero percent chance he's only gonna get the MLE, unless some catastrophic injury happens.

I absolutely feel Im right. Just like with Al last year when I said I wouldn't pay him more than the MLE and got heat. Just because a guy might get more doesn't mean that player is worth that money come season time. If Hayward misses any time due to injury and plays like he has here he is a MLE player. Let someone else make the mistake of paying him more.

I don't think Hayward is a max player, but trying to say he's an MLE guy is kind of a joke. He averaged 17.5/6.7/4.1 while flirting with 50/40/90 percentages this season. He's worth at least Reddick/Hardaway Jr. money.

If he keeps getting hurt and he can't be counted on then even with those numbers he is a MLE guy. If you want to overpay him be my guest. As I said I took heat for Al and I'm sitting pretty good right now. You ain't moving my opinion.

I don't care about moving your opinion, but you keep throwing things out that aren't actually facts. First, he doesn't play in half of the season's game, then the goalposts were moved that he wasn't good in those games. Again, the stats - surface stats or advanced - don't back you up. If you just don't like the guy, fine. But just say so and say it with your chest lol.

He probably should be wording his opinion in a different way, but there is a legitimate discussion to be had about Hayward moving forward. I'd love him to be that shiny 27 y/o all-star we signed back in 2017, but time has not been kind to Hayward. Looking ahead, not only is he on the wrong side of 30, but he has had one devastating injury and - just this year - a couple of others that turned out a lot worse than they actually looked on the court.

Of course a healthy Hayward is worth $20M+ over the next 4 years, but it isn't unreasonable to think that Hayward's best days are behind him. The question becomes, will he age gracefully into his mid-late 30s continuing his crafty all-around game, or will his body continue to let him down? I am pushing for the guy and hope he can put these injuries behind him. These past couple of years must have been really hard on him mentally.

The best ability is availability and Hayward hasn’t been available not one playoff run since he’s been here. So I agree a discussion can definitely be had about Hayward. He is good because he brings a little bit of maturity to our immature offense, but he honestly would be better off elsewhere for the sake of his own career. He’s had nothing but bad luck here and if he leaves he doesn’t have to feel bad because they had to do so much without him already. I’m not trying to be mean or harsh but it’s just the truth.

Lastly I think it’s time for Danny to trust himself and believe he can bring a young time to a championship. The vets we get don’t help us much in the times we need them.

[Smartacus]

https://tradenba.com/trades/LIHzJUNob

DeMar DeRozan + Derrick White for Hayward + the 26th Pick

San Antonio resets while still remaining watchable and retains the option to re-sign Hayward

Pro
DeRozan adds a new dimension of shot creation at the end of games and Derrick White is an accomplished shooter.
DeRozan can be extended if he does well or just cut ties if it doesn't.

Con
Many will feel DeRozan will just gunk up the offense and take shots away from Tatum and Brown.

Edit: Not saying I am for or against the trade but its an interesting concept.

[mrceltics2013]

https://tradenba.com/trades/LIHzJUNob

Demar DeRozan + Derrick White for Hayward + the 26th Pick

San Antonio resets while still remaining watchable and retains the option to re-sign Hayward

Pro
DeRozan adds a new dimension of shot creation at the end of games and Derrick White is an accomplished shooter.
DeRozan can be extended if he does well or just cut ties if it doesn't.

Con
Many will feel DeRozan will just gunk up the offense and take shots away from Tatum and Brown.

After seeing the playoff stinker Kemba put up, I don’t trust any other pure scorer. Derozen and Tatum on the same team going 2-88 in 1 game I’m completely not down for. If you have ever watched them play you know what I just said isn’t too far fetched.

[Csfan1984]

Think the Hayward opts in and Cs try to extend him for a lower AAV.

I don’t think ownership will let danny do that. Unless Hayward takes a 7-8 M a year contract after next season I think he’s gone sooner or later before next season starts.

Huh?? You really think Hayward is only worth $8 mil per??? I think the Cs can get Hayward on an 3 year extension worth around $20 mil per. I think that’s roughly what he’s worth.

If he opts in and has another year like this one he is a MLE player.

He averaged 18,6,5 as the 4th option on the Cs while shooting at a 50/38/86 clip. He’s worth significantly more than the MLE and he’ll get it in this league.

And can't stay healthy. What is the point of being good for 40 games when the season is 82+.

Hayward has only once played 40 games or less, it was when he broke his ankle.

I said being good not games played.

And you're still wrong, because he played really well this season, and he played 52 games in a shortened season. Regardless of any of this, there is a zero percent chance he's only gonna get the MLE, unless some catastrophic injury happens.

I absolutely feel Im right. Just like with Al last year when I said I wouldn't pay him more than the MLE and got heat. Just because a guy might get more doesn't mean that player is worth that money come season time. If Hayward misses any time due to injury and plays like he has here he is a MLE player. Let someone else make the mistake of paying him more.

I don't think Hayward is a max player, but trying to say he's an MLE guy is kind of a joke. He averaged 17.5/6.7/4.1 while flirting with 50/40/90 percentages this season. He's worth at least Reddick/Hardaway Jr. money.

If he keeps getting hurt and he can't be counted on then even with those numbers he is a MLE guy. If you want to overpay him be my guest. As I said I took heat for Al and I'm sitting pretty good right now. You ain't moving my opinion.

I don't care about moving your opinion, but you keep throwing things out that aren't actually facts. First, he doesn't play in half of the season's game, then the goalposts were moved that he wasn't good in those games. Again, the stats - surface stats or advanced - don't back you up. If you just don't like the guy, fine. But just say so and say it with your chest lol.

Point out what fact I stated that was wrong? I didn't say he only plays 40 games. I said plays good as in actually puts up a good performance. You jumped on it being 40 games played. It clearly says plays good. I didn't move the goal post. And the facts do back me up, in he is always hurt with the C's and couldn't be depended on.

[RJ87]

Think the Hayward opts in and Cs try to extend him for a lower AAV.

I don’t think ownership will let danny do that. Unless Hayward takes a 7-8 M a year contract after next season I think he’s gone sooner or later before next season starts.

Huh?? You really think Hayward is only worth $8 mil per??? I think the Cs can get Hayward on an 3 year extension worth around $20 mil per. I think that’s roughly what he’s worth.

If he opts in and has another year like this one he is a MLE player.

He averaged 18,6,5 as the 4th option on the Cs while shooting at a 50/38/86 clip. He’s worth significantly more than the MLE and he’ll get it in this league.

And can't stay healthy. What is the point of being good for 40 games when the season is 82+.

Hayward has only once played 40 games or less, it was when he broke his ankle.

I said being good not games played.

And you're still wrong, because he played really well this season, and he played 52 games in a shortened season. Regardless of any of this, there is a zero percent chance he's only gonna get the MLE, unless some catastrophic injury happens.

I absolutely feel Im right. Just like with Al last year when I said I wouldn't pay him more than the MLE and got heat. Just because a guy might get more doesn't mean that player is worth that money come season time. If Hayward misses any time due to injury and plays like he has here he is a MLE player. Let someone else make the mistake of paying him more.

I don't think Hayward is a max player, but trying to say he's an MLE guy is kind of a joke. He averaged 17.5/6.7/4.1 while flirting with 50/40/90 percentages this season. He's worth at least Reddick/Hardaway Jr. money.

If he keeps getting hurt and he can't be counted on then even with those numbers he is a MLE guy. If you want to overpay him be my guest. As I said I took heat for Al and I'm sitting pretty good right now. You ain't moving my opinion.

I don't care about moving your opinion, but you keep throwing things out that aren't actually facts. First, he doesn't play in half of the season's game, then the goalposts were moved that he wasn't good in those games. Again, the stats - surface stats or advanced - don't back you up. If you just don't like the guy, fine. But just say so and say it with your chest lol.

He probably should be wording his opinion in a different way, but there is a legitimate discussion to be had about Hayward moving forward. I'd love him to be that shiny 27 y/o all-star we signed back in 2017, but time has not been kind to Hayward. Looking ahead, not only is he on the wrong side of 30, but he has had one devastating injury and - just this year - a couple of others that turned out a lot worse than they actually looked on the court.

Of course a healthy Hayward is worth $20M+ over the next 4 years, but it isn't unreasonable to think that Hayward's best days are behind him. The question becomes, will he age gracefully into his mid-late 30s continuing his crafty all-around game, or will his body continue to let him down? I am pushing for the guy and hope he can put these injuries behind him. These past couple of years must have been really hard on him mentally.

A discussion can be had - I'm far from a Hayward apologist. But he's definitely worth more than an MLE salary and he'd command above that under normal circumstances in free agency, even with his injury history. As far as those injuries, I'd be more concerned if he had chronic, recurrent issues that suggests he's breaking down. He's had some freak accidents that have cost him time that no one could've foreseen or predicted.

[gouki88]

Think the Hayward opts in and Cs try to extend him for a lower AAV.

I don’t think ownership will let danny do that. Unless Hayward takes a 7-8 M a year contract after next season I think he’s gone sooner or later before next season starts.

Huh?? You really think Hayward is only worth $8 mil per??? I think the Cs can get Hayward on an 3 year extension worth around $20 mil per. I think that’s roughly what he’s worth.

If he opts in and has another year like this one he is a MLE player.

He averaged 18,6,5 as the 4th option on the Cs while shooting at a 50/38/86 clip. He’s worth significantly more than the MLE and he’ll get it in this league.

And can't stay healthy. What is the point of being good for 40 games when the season is 82+.

Hayward has only once played 40 games or less, it was when he broke his ankle.

I said being good not games played.

And you're still wrong, because he played really well this season, and he played 52 games in a shortened season. Regardless of any of this, there is a zero percent chance he's only gonna get the MLE, unless some catastrophic injury happens.

I absolutely feel Im right. Just like with Al last year when I said I wouldn't pay him more than the MLE and got heat. Just because a guy might get more doesn't mean that player is worth that money come season time. If Hayward misses any time due to injury and plays like he has here he is a MLE player. Let someone else make the mistake of paying him more.

I don't think Hayward is a max player, but trying to say he's an MLE guy is kind of a joke. He averaged 17.5/6.7/4.1 while flirting with 50/40/90 percentages this season. He's worth at least Reddick/Hardaway Jr. money.

If he keeps getting hurt and he can't be counted on then even with those numbers he is a MLE guy. If you want to overpay him be my guest. As I said I took heat for Al and I'm sitting pretty good right now. You ain't moving my opinion.

Your opinion might be locked in, but it's ludicrous. In no world, and in no market, were either Al Horford or Hayward now MLE guys. Simply never ever. You deserve to take heat for these ideas.

Horford is overpaid, undoubtedly, but he's still a durable 12/7/4 guy with versatile defence, the ability to space the floor and a vast amount of playoff experience. There's a middle ground between earning $30m and being an MLE guy that you're ignoring for some reason, and it just makes the argument you're presenting come off as ridiculously out there - which it is.

[pearljammer10]

There is literally zero chance Hayward opts out of this 34 million dollar deal, mainly because no one is going to offer him another max deal or a hefty long term deal.

Take the money, prove your healthy, cash in on a long term deal next year.

But that's just it. If the Celtics offered him a 4 year, 20 million dollar  a year deal if he opted out, he might consider it. If he opted in, he would be betting that he'd be able to get at least 46 million in the three years following this year's contract, or roughly 15 million a year. He might get that. I think that's roughly what he is worth for the Celtics because of their roster construction. But he might feel like he is worth more--indeed, he probably could get a bigger contract from a lottery team wanting to get into the playoffs.

But there is another complication. The salary cap will adjust with Covid from this year, and there will be a ton of free agents available in the summer 2021, which means he would have competition for his next contract. He could find himself with nothing more than an MLE, especially if he has ankle problems this year. In that case, by opting in to his 34 million dollars, and getting a 3 year MLE, he would have lost roughly 15 million dollars compared to the 4 year, 20 million dollar a year extension that the Cs might offer him this off-season.

Opting in, but only getting an MLE next off-season because of competition: 2021, 34 million, 2022 10m, 2023 10m, 2024 10m for a total of 64 million over 4 years.

Opting out and resigning with Cs for 4 years 20 million would give him 80 million over the next four years.

Yeah and opting in this year already gives him almost half that. He plays like he did during the season, before the ankle sprain in the playoffs, he comes out in 2021 FA and signs a 4yr/100 mil deal and he makes 54 million than he would in your scenario.

No brainer.

[Csfan1984]

Think the Hayward opts in and Cs try to extend him for a lower AAV.

I don’t think ownership will let danny do that. Unless Hayward takes a 7-8 M a year contract after next season I think he’s gone sooner or later before next season starts.

Huh?? You really think Hayward is only worth $8 mil per??? I think the Cs can get Hayward on an 3 year extension worth around $20 mil per. I think that’s roughly what he’s worth.

If he opts in and has another year like this one he is a MLE player.

He averaged 18,6,5 as the 4th option on the Cs while shooting at a 50/38/86 clip. He’s worth significantly more than the MLE and he’ll get it in this league.

And can't stay healthy. What is the point of being good for 40 games when the season is 82+.

Hayward has only once played 40 games or less, it was when he broke his ankle.

I said being good not games played.

And you're still wrong, because he played really well this season, and he played 52 games in a shortened season. Regardless of any of this, there is a zero percent chance he's only gonna get the MLE, unless some catastrophic injury happens.

I absolutely feel Im right. Just like with Al last year when I said I wouldn't pay him more than the MLE and got heat. Just because a guy might get more doesn't mean that player is worth that money come season time. If Hayward misses any time due to injury and plays like he has here he is a MLE player. Let someone else make the mistake of paying him more.

I don't think Hayward is a max player, but trying to say he's an MLE guy is kind of a joke. He averaged 17.5/6.7/4.1 while flirting with 50/40/90 percentages this season. He's worth at least Reddick/Hardaway Jr. money.

If he keeps getting hurt and he can't be counted on then even with those numbers he is a MLE guy. If you want to overpay him be my guest. As I said I took heat for Al and I'm sitting pretty good right now. You ain't moving my opinion.

Your opinion might be locked in, but it's ludicrous. In no world, and in no market, were either Al Horford or Hayward now MLE guys. Simply never ever. You deserve to take heat for these ideas.

Horford is overpaid, undoubtedly, but he's still a durable 12/7/4 guy with versatile defence, the ability to space the floor and a vast amount of playoff experience. There's a middle ground between earning $30m and being an MLE guy that you're ignoring for some reason, and it just makes the argument you're presenting come off as ridiculously out there - which it is.

Ask the 76ers fan base what they think Al is worth, the MLE might be too much for them.

[NKY fan]

I keep going back and forth on whether we need to trade Hayward for bench reinforcement and such or even Oladipo and turner with picks included.
I think that Miami is so far ahead everyone in the East in terms of the make up of their team and identity and will only going to be getting better.
Maybe trade picks and Hayward only for a real difference maker like Giannis, Durant , lebron or Kawhi. Since those are impossible at this point and without trading the Js... maybe makes the most sense to Just draft 3-4 guys and see if they can make the quick jump in their development the way Heats young players did this year.