Author Topic: NBA Playoffs 2019-2020  (Read 243427 times)

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Re: NBA Playoffs 2019-2020
« Reply #1995 on: October 02, 2020, 11:32:27 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Lowest viewership in NBA history..I’m not racist or anything but I’m thinking the BLM thing is the reason why with kneeling for anthem, sayings on back of jerseys and Black Lives Matters on the court..and  think goes for all sports is reason why ratings are down..I got lot of friends saying they never watch NFL or NBA again

I get the NFL - there are fans with some pretty unsavory views and the movement might lower revenue due to lower viewership; but I highly doubt the NBA lost many fans over this. The NBA has always been at the forefront of racial equality and the majority of the league is black. Who really was watching before, but isn't now due to BLM?


I agree; I don't think BLM has anything to do with it.

The viewership is down because casual fans like superteams and the Heat aren't that.  Even the Lakers aren't that -- they're 2 guys and a bunch of role players.  Also there are several other sports happening right now, which diffuses attention.

Finally, I think the election stuff getting hot right now is grabbing a lot of attention that might otherwise go to watching the Finals.
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Re: NBA Playoffs 2019-2020
« Reply #1996 on: October 02, 2020, 11:36:34 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Lowest viewership in NBA history..I’m not racist or anything but I’m thinking the BLM thing is the reason why with kneeling for anthem, sayings on back of jerseys and Black Lives Matters on the court..and  think goes for all sports is reason why ratings are down..I got lot of friends saying they never watch NFL or NBA again

I get the NFL - there are fans with some pretty unsavory views and the movement might lower revenue due to lower viewership; but I highly doubt the NBA lost many fans over this. The NBA has always been at the forefront of racial equality and the majority of the league is black. Who really was watching before, but isn't now due to BLM?


I agree; I don't think BLM has anything to do with it.

The viewership is down because casual fans like superteams and the Heat aren't that.  Even the Lakers aren't that -- they're 2 guys and a bunch of role players.  Also there are several other sports happening right now, which diffuses attention.

Finally, I think the election stuff getting hot right now is grabbing a lot of attention that might otherwise go to watching the Finals.

I'm sure its had *some* impact but certainly not the level that the Clay Travis' of the world would hope & want you to believe.

Like I mentioned earlier, it's a combination of factors & its not just the NBA. 

Also, FWIW,  Game 1 still won the night from a ratings standpoint.


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Re: NBA Playoffs 2019-2020
« Reply #1997 on: October 02, 2020, 11:38:14 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Why does winning a title matter?  The only way to answer that is to provide an explanation of what it means to win a title.  That's inherently subjective.

Because that's the goal of the sport: a championship. Do you run a race for the experience or do you run the race to win it?



That's a really interesting analogy to bring up, actually.

I'm a runner.  I love running.  I enjoy participating in half marathons, marathons, etc.  I've never once won any of those races I've participated in.  Often, though, I get a personal best or I come in ahead of some people I was chasing during the race.  Other times, I don't manage those things but it's a tough course and I feel like I do a good job.  Still other times, I just have a really good time and feel great afterward because I did an athletic endeavor, I ran on an unusual or particularly beautiful course, I got to run with a large group of people participating in a race together, and I expended all of my energy.  That alone can leave me feeling accomplished at the end.


So no, I don't think "winning the race" is all there is to it.

By your logic, if you offered to give me amnesia during the race that would cause me to run very fast and win, I should be happy to take the deal.  I should wake up after the race is over, with the trophy in my hands, and feel amazing.

But I would never accept that offer.  Winning doesn't have any real meaning in and of itself unless you're a person who just gets off on the idea that you've come in ahead of somebody else.  To me, what gives winning significance is the road you take to get there. 


So yes, not all victories are equal.  Some mean more than others.  There's no way around that, and I think it's completely nonsensical to suggest otherwise. 


But you're allowed to value whatever you like as a fan.
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Re: NBA Playoffs 2019-2020
« Reply #1998 on: October 02, 2020, 11:41:02 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Lowest viewership in NBA history..I’m not racist or anything but I’m thinking the BLM thing is the reason why with kneeling for anthem, sayings on back of jerseys and Black Lives Matters on the court..and  think goes for all sports is reason why ratings are down..I got lot of friends saying they never watch NFL or NBA again

I get the NFL - there are fans with some pretty unsavory views and the movement might lower revenue due to lower viewership; but I highly doubt the NBA lost many fans over this. The NBA has always been at the forefront of racial equality and the majority of the league is black. Who really was watching before, but isn't now due to BLM?


I agree; I don't think BLM has anything to do with it.

The viewership is down because casual fans like superteams and the Heat aren't that.  Even the Lakers aren't that -- they're 2 guys and a bunch of role players.  Also there are several other sports happening right now, which diffuses attention.

Finally, I think the election stuff getting hot right now is grabbing a lot of attention that might otherwise go to watching the Finals.

I'm sure its had *some* impact but certainly not the level that the Clay Travis' of the world would hope & want you to believe.

Like I mentioned earlier, it's a combination of factors & its not just the NBA. 

Also, FWIW,  Game 1 still won the night from a ratings standpoint.



I'm willing to bet that whatever negative effect there is on the league supporting BLM is counterbalanced by positive effects, if not in terms of the raw numbers of fans than in terms of the fans that are engaged being more engaged and having a higher impression of the league and the sport.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: NBA Playoffs 2019-2020
« Reply #1999 on: October 02, 2020, 11:43:40 AM »

Offline footey

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Why does winning a title matter?  The only way to answer that is to provide an explanation of what it means to win a title.  That's inherently subjective.

Because that's the goal of the sport: a championship. Do you run a race for the experience or do you run the race to win it?



That's a really interesting analogy to bring up, actually.

I'm a runner.  I love running.  I enjoy participating in half marathons, marathons, etc.  I've never once won any of those races I've participated in.  Often, though, I get a personal best or I come in ahead of some people I was chasing during the race.  Other times, I don't manage those things but it's a tough course and I feel like I do a good job.  Still other times, I just have a really good time and feel great afterward because I did an athletic endeavor, I ran on an unusual or particularly beautiful course, I got to run with a large group of people participating in a race together, and I expended all of my energy.  That alone can leave me feeling accomplished at the end.


So no, I don't think "winning the race" is all there is to it.

By your logic, if you offered to give me amnesia during the race that would cause me to run very fast and win, I should be happy to take the deal.  I should wake up after the race is over, with the trophy in my hands, and feel amazing.

But I would never accept that offer.  Winning doesn't have any real meaning in and of itself unless you're a person who just gets off on the idea that you've come in ahead of somebody else.  To me, what gives winning significance is the road you take to get there. 


So yes, not all victories are equal.  Some mean more than others.  There's no way around that, and I think it's completely nonsensical to suggest otherwise. 


But you're allowed to value whatever you like as a fan.

Great perspective, PhoSita. TP.  How long have you been running races?  How old are you if I may ask?

Re: NBA Playoffs 2019-2020
« Reply #2000 on: October 02, 2020, 12:12:17 PM »

Offline RJ87

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Why does winning a title matter?  The only way to answer that is to provide an explanation of what it means to win a title.  That's inherently subjective.

Because that's the goal of the sport: a championship. Do you run a race for the experience or do you run the race to win it?



That's a really interesting analogy to bring up, actually.

I'm a runner.  I love running.  I enjoy participating in half marathons, marathons, etc.  I've never once won any of those races I've participated in.  Often, though, I get a personal best or I come in ahead of some people I was chasing during the race.  Other times, I don't manage those things but it's a tough course and I feel like I do a good job.  Still other times, I just have a really good time and feel great afterward because I did an athletic endeavor, I ran on an unusual or particularly beautiful course, I got to run with a large group of people participating in a race together, and I expended all of my energy.  That alone can leave me feeling accomplished at the end.


So no, I don't think "winning the race" is all there is to it.

By your logic, if you offered to give me amnesia during the race that would cause me to run very fast and win, I should be happy to take the deal.  I should wake up after the race is over, with the trophy in my hands, and feel amazing.

But I would never accept that offer.  Winning doesn't have any real meaning in and of itself unless you're a person who just gets off on the idea that you've come in ahead of somebody else.  To me, what gives winning significance is the road you take to get there. 


So yes, not all victories are equal.  Some mean more than others.  There's no way around that, and I think it's completely nonsensical to suggest otherwise. 


But you're allowed to value whatever you like as a fan.

I think that's an interesting perspective to take as hobbyist who runs marathons as a personal goal as opposed to say an Olympic athlete who trains their entire life for the opportunity to win.

But we're going back & forth for no reason. I just don't put the same stock into moral victories and narratives that you do. If I need to feel fuzzy I'll put on a Disney movie or something. I enjoy basketball for the competition - the best players in the world competing at the highest level and at the end there's a winner. Sometimes that's your team, sometimes it's not. This year, it looks like it's going to be Lebron and the Lakers. You can try ascribe whatever meaning you want to it or try to detract from it so it doesn't sting too badly, but I don't think LA fans are going to turn their nose up at a new banner because it "doesn't mean as much" as some of the previous ones. And I don't see Lebron chucking this ring into the scrap pile because it "doesn't mean as much" as his other 3. The goal is a championship and they're going to accomplish said goal.

Thank you for giving me permission to value what I like as a fan, though.
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Re: NBA Playoffs 2019-2020
« Reply #2001 on: October 02, 2020, 03:16:16 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I enjoy basketball for the competition - the best players in the world competing at the highest level and at the end there's a winner. Sometimes that's your team, sometimes it's not. This year, it looks like it's going to be Lebron and the Lakers. You can try ascribe whatever meaning you want to it or try to detract from it so it doesn't sting too badly, but I don't think LA fans are going to turn their nose up at a new banner because it "doesn't mean as much" as some of the previous ones. And I don't see Lebron chucking this ring into the scrap pile because it "doesn't mean as much" as his other 3. The goal is a championship and they're going to accomplish said goal.


LeBron and his fans can put whatever meaning they want on it.

It's just a lamer, weaker victory than many others we've seen LeBron achieve in his career and that we've witnessed in the last decade.

That's how it is to me, for all the reasons I've laid out.  I don't buy into the "titles are the only thing that matters" mentality because I think if you go down that road it makes sports fandom toxic and ultimately unfulfilling.  It makes all of this that we're talking about into a cardboard cutout caricature of what it ought to be.


I honestly don't understand why it's so important to you to defend the Lakers and Bron.  Why does it bother you so much for others to downplay it?  Why must we worship at the altar?

Sure, you can say it's sour grapes. You can say it's just that we didn't win and they're going to win.  And you could also ask why it's important to me to qualify the Lakers winning in a way that in some ways detracts from it, rather than bowing down and accepting that they won, we didn't, they're better, we're worse.


Well, I like basketball. I like the stories that grow around it.  This was a fun season that's ending in a disappointing, anticlimactic way.  For me as a fan, given what I value, it's a p--- poor ending.  That's all there is to it. 
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: NBA Playoffs 2019-2020
« Reply #2002 on: October 02, 2020, 03:23:33 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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https://youtu.be/dJBHBbnhpSQ?t=197


JJ Redick before Game 1 on why he wanted to see the Heat win.  Really says it well.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: NBA Playoffs 2019-2020
« Reply #2003 on: October 02, 2020, 03:35:51 PM »

Offline footey

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https://youtu.be/dJBHBbnhpSQ?t=197


JJ Redick before Game 1 on why he wanted to see the Heat win.  Really says it well.

Yeah, that was nice. But he also said in that take that the Heat had a much better chance of beating the Lakers than the Celtics, that Boston would have gotten wiped out in 4 to 5 games. I don't agree with that take at all. (not to mention that right now it looks like the Heat could get spanked, although injuries will contribute to that likely outcome).

Re: NBA Playoffs 2019-2020
« Reply #2004 on: October 02, 2020, 04:10:47 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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The cakewalk continues....

Quote
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Miami Heat All-Star Bam Adebayo (shoulder) will miss Game 2 of the NBA Finals vs. Lakers tonight, but there remains hope that he could return for Game 3 on Sunday, sources tell ESPN. The Heat have listed him as doubtful for tonight.


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Re: NBA Playoffs 2019-2020
« Reply #2005 on: October 02, 2020, 05:06:02 PM »

Offline cman88

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of course, now that the heat play the lakers they lose 2 of their bet players to injury and Herro/Robinson turn back into a pumpkin from playing like Ray allen/reggie miller against the celtics

Re: NBA Playoffs 2019-2020
« Reply #2006 on: October 02, 2020, 05:31:36 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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This is gonna be one of the least competitive Finals ever.  Sheesh.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: NBA Playoffs 2019-2020
« Reply #2007 on: October 02, 2020, 06:03:45 PM »

Offline gouki88

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This is gonna be one of the least competitive Finals ever.  Sheesh.
Trying to think of ones that come close and not many spring to mind. Even the sweeps have had many single-digit victories
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Re: NBA Playoffs 2019-2020
« Reply #2008 on: October 02, 2020, 06:14:01 PM »

Offline footey

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Laker wins in early 00's pretty one sided, at least one of them, right?

Re: NBA Playoffs 2019-2020
« Reply #2009 on: October 02, 2020, 06:17:54 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Laker wins in early 00's pretty one sided, at least one of them, right?

First one that came to mind for me was '89.   That Lakers team was beat up and Kareem was a walking corpse at that point but 3 of the 4 games were actually single digits.  Pistons were peaking.

'02 Finals were pretty bad.  That was a formality when it started.


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