Author Topic: MJs top starting five  (Read 4496 times)

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Re: MJs top starting five
« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2020, 12:19:58 AM »

Offline Somebody

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No Curry at the 1
Steph is hands down the better shooter (imo, the best ever). Magic and Oscar were better at pretty much everything else.
Hm I disagree, I think Steph is infinitely better off-ball and is the best scorer out of the three even though Oscar isn't that far off. Also think Steph is around Oscar's level as a playmaker if not better? Oscar had huge assist numbers but he was more of a facilitator than a creator, the bulk of his offensive impact came from his amazing isolation scoring.
Agreed on the off-ball part. After all, he's by far the better shooter. Should have mentioned his ball handling skills as well. Steph is an amazing ball handler. Imo, Magic and Oscar were better at everything else. Steph can score in bunches from distance, but Magic/Oscar were more versatile scorers (especially Oscar). At the end of the day, size matters. Magic was the better slasher, the better post up player, the better cutter, you name it. Again, Steph is hands down the better shooter. Thing is, his below average height/length is a disadvantage on both ends of the floor, not just on defense.

Don't get me wrong, Steph revolutionized the game. He's an all-time great. I just believe Magic and Oscar were better. But then again, I'm super high on Magic. Imo, he's the GOAT.
Magic probably wasn't the better slasher unless he was somehow a Jordan/LeBron level rim finisher. I don't have the stats right now, but I remember Curry having ridiculous rim finishing numbers on pretty high volume. He's not your traditional athletic guard who dunks over bigs, but his combination of skill and muscle (yes he's pretty strong for a 6'3 guard) makes him incredibly hard to block. And versatility is nice, but Curry's combination of high volume + efficiency in such an additive package blows away whatever edge Magic or Oscar have in that regard imo. But yeah we can agree to disagree.

no West at the 2? Mind if I know your reasoning?
At 6'2''/6'3'', I consider West more of a PG. At the very least, I bet he would have been exclusively a PG in today's game. From what I've read, I'd rather build a team around West rather than around Kobe. Having said that, I've only seen West play in short youtube videos. I don't know enough about his game.
West was actually 6'4.5 without shoes with a 6'9 wingspan lol.

He was also a SG in the 60s and I think it would stay the same even if he played in this era. Also agree with your opinion that peak West>peak Kobe. I haven't watched a ton of his games, but his ability to score and create even in that era always stood out to me from the little I've seen, his jumper was a deadly counter to his driving ability and he balanced it with excellent passing.
West has all the incentive in the world to oversell himself. Players (people in general) do it all the time.

Basketball reference lists him at 6'2''.
DraftExpress lists him at 6'2''.
Wikipedia lists him at 6'3''.
And listing can go wrong as well. West looks like Wade's height in pictures where they stood together, that's pretty much 6'4 to me.

What disrespect? People routinely slot him in their top 10 lists
This is my point right there. The way I see it, Duncan is our generation's Bill Russell. If you say Russ is a top 10 player, you are underselling him. He is a GOAT candidate. Imo, the same goes for Duncan.
No offence, but I don't see it. Russell's 13 years were basically his prime in an era where careers were considerably shorter and he had a stronger peak/prime than Duncan that more than makes up for Duncan's edge in longevity. I see Duncan in the next tier of greats alongside bigs like Shaq/Hakeem/Garnett/Wilt, which is still amazing, just not a GOAT candidate.
No offense taken. My big men tiers are a bit different:

Tier 1
GOAT candidates: Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Duncan

Tier 2
borderline top 10 players: Dream, Shaq

Tier 3
KG, Dirk, David Robinson, Moses, Karl Malone, Chuck, Giannis, possibly a few more guys as well

I could see Giannis moving up to tier 2 in the future. AD is a strong candidate to make tier 3 in the near future.
I'm not sure if Giannis will move to your tier 2, I think his career trajectory screams your tier 3 to me. AD probably will reach that tier as well, I buy the argument that he'll be great for a long time.
Rockets PG: Westbrook, Rivers, Clemons SG: Harden, Gordon, McLemore
SF: House, Carroll, Caboclo PF: Covington, Green, Williams
C: Tucker, Hartenstein, Bender
Warriors PG: Curry, Jackson, Bowman SG: Thompson, Lee, Poole
SF: Wiggins, Okoro, Anderson PF: Green, Paschall, MKG
C: Looney, Chriss, Smiley

Re: MJs top starting five
« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2020, 01:01:27 PM »

Offline Moranis

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And here's Paul Pierce's top 5 (not starting 5):



People hate on PP for not including LeBron. Personally speaking, I got Bron in the same tier as MJ, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Magic, Bird, Oscar and Duncan. I'm fine with opting for MJ/Kareem/Russell/Magic over Bron. My only objection to his list would be Kobe.
Pierce looks like a fool listing Kobe & Magic ahead of Bron. Makes him come off as having been beaten by LeBron in more ways than one, lol.

He’s such a bad analyst it’s not even funny.
his reasoning was pretty bad, basically Lebron created a team in Miami and then again in Cleveland.  Just sounds like a huge hypocrite since you know Pierce's title team was manufactured the prior off season as well (I suspect he wouldn't have the same criticisms of Garnett as he did with Lebron).  The other analysts on the show didn't even really bother with his nonsense as they all just took it as nonsense.  Heck Magic would have gone back to school if the Lakers didn't win the coin toss for the 1st pick.  He has said this several times over the years.  In other words, he wanted to play with Kareem.  Kareem won his title in Milwaukee in Oscar's 1st season (i.e. he joined the team and wasn't on it) and didn't win any others without Magic.  Kobe demanded to go to LA after he was drafted by Charlotte.  He joined a team with Shaq.  His 2nd two, the Lakers were a mid-level team until they acquired Pau at the trade deadline.  They then went on a 3 season tear.  The analysis is just nonsense and that is the problem with it. 

The thing is, I think you could at least argue with a straight face that Lebron is outside the top 5, but Pierce just had this nonsensical argument.  And just to be clear, I don't think it would really be that difficult to argue that MJ, Bill, Wilt, and Kareem were all better for different reasons.  That 5th person is more difficult, but I can see at least reasonable arguments for Oscar, Magic, or Bird.  That said, I think most people have Lebron in the top 3 all time and more and more think he is the best player ever so it is getting harder to make the argument.

How is getting kg and ray due to trades made and planned by your gm the same as talking among yourselves and planning to go to a same team?! Thanks for the laugh as always.
The Celtics were a manufactured team.  No one on that team could win by themselves it took trades for them to do it.  And unlike the 3 C's stars, Lebron had actually taken a craptastic team to the Finals.  Pierce is just a giant a hypocrite with his reasoning. I mean his point was Lebron had to manufacture teams, yet several of the players on his list did that exact same thing.  I mean Kareem asked out of Milwaukee, Magic only stayed in the draft when the Lakers won the coin toss, Kobe refused to play in Charlotte (and basically forced his way to go play with Shaq in LA), etc.  I just find his hypocrisy to be a real problem and he just comes off as petty as a result.
Those examples you listed are entirely different to the formation of Miami’s Big 3, and you know it.
Not really to the point he was making.  He was basically saying Lebron couldn't hack it and had to go form a team to win, but that is very similar to how a lot of title teams have come together.  Not necessarily through free agency, but coming together to win.  And someone like Kareem had won previously (though not until Oscar joined the Bucks), but he still didn't want to toil in Milwaukee.  And Lebron tried to get Bosh to Cleveland.  The Cavs and Raptors had already agreed on a trade to make it happen, but Bosh wouldn't go to Cleveland so he and Lebron went to Miami.  I mean even Jordan had to retire so the Bulls could retool.  I mean seriously the only 2 people on both the 3rd and 4th Bulls titles were Jordan and Pippen.  Teams come together in different ways all of the time, but to dock Lebron because he used free agency to get out of a dumpster fire of an organization to go to a better one and not recognize the countless other players that did the exact same thing and not dock them is just hypocrisy at its finest.
Historical Draft - Portland Trailblazers
PG - Magic Johnson, Tony Parker
SG - Clyde Drexler, Dennis Johnson, Alvin Robertson
SF - James Worthy, Alex English
PF - Charles Barkley, Ben Wallace
C - Moses Malone, George Mikan, Brad Daugherty

Re: MJs top starting five
« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2020, 03:22:07 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I did post and explain my starting five already
Curry, MJ, Bird, KG, Wilt

So my guys off the bench would need to make up weakness or mirror the starters. Kobe mirrors MJ. KD mirrors Bird as a floor spacer. As KG was in for his defense, Russell is in for his defensive range. The hardest thing was how to fit LeBron because I want KD's shooting. Point guard might be good but Magic put up great numbers there and played the position successfully not just in theory. So I slot LeBron at PF

Magic
Kobe
KD
LeBron
Russell

3rd squad
Stockton
Klay Thompson
Leonard
Dirk
Hakeem

Re: MJs top starting five
« Reply #48 on: May 24, 2020, 04:10:53 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Here's an unorthodox small-ball lineup that would have been perfect suited for today's game. Opted to build the team around Magic and Bird. Call me blasphemous, but imo they were both better than Jordan.

PG: Steph
SG: Klay
SF: Kawhi
PF: Bird
C: Magic (C on defense, PG on offense)

Magic revolutionized the PG position in the 80s. I believe he would have revolutionized the Center position in today's game, becoming the first true Point Center in basketball history. After all, he won Finals MVP in 1980 while playing a full game at C.

Alternatively (supremely talented team, but with worse spacing)

PG: Oscar
SG: Jordan
SF: LeBron
PF: Bird
C: Magic
« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 04:59:48 PM by Jvalin »

Re: MJs top starting five
« Reply #49 on: May 24, 2020, 09:33:29 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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There are so many deserving players but I'd settle on the following for an all-time starting 5

Oscar Robinson
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Kevin Garnett
Bill Russell

Re: MJs top starting five
« Reply #50 on: May 24, 2020, 11:50:01 PM »

Offline gouki88

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And here's Paul Pierce's top 5 (not starting 5):



People hate on PP for not including LeBron. Personally speaking, I got Bron in the same tier as MJ, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Magic, Bird, Oscar and Duncan. I'm fine with opting for MJ/Kareem/Russell/Magic over Bron. My only objection to his list would be Kobe.
Pierce looks like a fool listing Kobe & Magic ahead of Bron. Makes him come off as having been beaten by LeBron in more ways than one, lol.

He’s such a bad analyst it’s not even funny.
his reasoning was pretty bad, basically Lebron created a team in Miami and then again in Cleveland.  Just sounds like a huge hypocrite since you know Pierce's title team was manufactured the prior off season as well (I suspect he wouldn't have the same criticisms of Garnett as he did with Lebron).  The other analysts on the show didn't even really bother with his nonsense as they all just took it as nonsense.  Heck Magic would have gone back to school if the Lakers didn't win the coin toss for the 1st pick.  He has said this several times over the years.  In other words, he wanted to play with Kareem.  Kareem won his title in Milwaukee in Oscar's 1st season (i.e. he joined the team and wasn't on it) and didn't win any others without Magic.  Kobe demanded to go to LA after he was drafted by Charlotte.  He joined a team with Shaq.  His 2nd two, the Lakers were a mid-level team until they acquired Pau at the trade deadline.  They then went on a 3 season tear.  The analysis is just nonsense and that is the problem with it. 

The thing is, I think you could at least argue with a straight face that Lebron is outside the top 5, but Pierce just had this nonsensical argument.  And just to be clear, I don't think it would really be that difficult to argue that MJ, Bill, Wilt, and Kareem were all better for different reasons.  That 5th person is more difficult, but I can see at least reasonable arguments for Oscar, Magic, or Bird.  That said, I think most people have Lebron in the top 3 all time and more and more think he is the best player ever so it is getting harder to make the argument.

How is getting kg and ray due to trades made and planned by your gm the same as talking among yourselves and planning to go to a same team?! Thanks for the laugh as always.
The Celtics were a manufactured team.  No one on that team could win by themselves it took trades for them to do it.  And unlike the 3 C's stars, Lebron had actually taken a craptastic team to the Finals.  Pierce is just a giant a hypocrite with his reasoning. I mean his point was Lebron had to manufacture teams, yet several of the players on his list did that exact same thing.  I mean Kareem asked out of Milwaukee, Magic only stayed in the draft when the Lakers won the coin toss, Kobe refused to play in Charlotte (and basically forced his way to go play with Shaq in LA), etc.  I just find his hypocrisy to be a real problem and he just comes off as petty as a result.
Those examples you listed are entirely different to the formation of Miami’s Big 3, and you know it.
Not really to the point he was making.  He was basically saying Lebron couldn't hack it and had to go form a team to win, but that is very similar to how a lot of title teams have come together.  Not necessarily through free agency, but coming together to win.  And someone like Kareem had won previously (though not until Oscar joined the Bucks), but he still didn't want to toil in Milwaukee.  And Lebron tried to get Bosh to Cleveland.  The Cavs and Raptors had already agreed on a trade to make it happen, but Bosh wouldn't go to Cleveland so he and Lebron went to Miami.  I mean even Jordan had to retire so the Bulls could retool.  I mean seriously the only 2 people on both the 3rd and 4th Bulls titles were Jordan and Pippen.  Teams come together in different ways all of the time, but to dock Lebron because he used free agency to get out of a dumpster fire of an organization to go to a better one and not recognize the countless other players that did the exact same thing and not dock them is just hypocrisy at its finest.
Rofl. Ironic beyond belief
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Re: MJs top starting five
« Reply #51 on: May 25, 2020, 02:35:05 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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There are so many deserving players but I'd settle on the following for an all-time starting 5

Oscar Robinson
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Kevin Garnett
Bill Russell
Oscar Robinson would have been the GOAT! A hybrid of Oscar Robertson and David Robinson? That would have been special! :P

Gimme Bill Bird though. Bird's shooting/scoring and basketball IQ + Russell's athleticism, defense and unparalleled winning mentality. Just wow!
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 04:13:58 AM by Jvalin »

Re: MJs top starting five
« Reply #52 on: May 25, 2020, 07:35:47 AM »

Offline Somebody

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There are so many deserving players but I'd settle on the following for an all-time starting 5

Oscar Robinson
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Kevin Garnett
Bill Russell
Oscar Robinson would have been the GOAT! A hybrid of Oscar Robertson and David Robinson? That would have been special! :P

Gimme Bill Bird though. Bird's shooting/scoring and basketball IQ + Russell's athleticism, defense and unparalleled winning mentality. Just wow!
Michael Garnett please 8)
Rockets PG: Westbrook, Rivers, Clemons SG: Harden, Gordon, McLemore
SF: House, Carroll, Caboclo PF: Covington, Green, Williams
C: Tucker, Hartenstein, Bender
Warriors PG: Curry, Jackson, Bowman SG: Thompson, Lee, Poole
SF: Wiggins, Okoro, Anderson PF: Green, Paschall, MKG
C: Looney, Chriss, Smiley

Re: MJs top starting five
« Reply #53 on: May 25, 2020, 09:45:24 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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There are so many deserving players but I'd settle on the following for an all-time starting 5

Oscar Robinson
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Kevin Garnett
Bill Russell
Oscar Robinson would have been the GOAT! A hybrid of Oscar Robertson and David Robinson? That would have been special! :P

Gimme Bill Bird though. Bird's shooting/scoring and basketball IQ + Russell's athleticism, defense and unparalleled winning mentality. Just wow!
Michael Garnett please 8)

Haha!

Looks like I'm yet another victim of auto-correct.  I'm not even going to bother fixing my original post, it's too funny.

Re: MJs top starting five
« Reply #54 on: May 25, 2020, 11:59:43 PM »

Offline Somebody

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There are so many deserving players but I'd settle on the following for an all-time starting 5

Oscar Robinson
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Kevin Garnett
Bill Russell
Oscar Robinson would have been the GOAT! A hybrid of Oscar Robertson and David Robinson? That would have been special! :P

Gimme Bill Bird though. Bird's shooting/scoring and basketball IQ + Russell's athleticism, defense and unparalleled winning mentality. Just wow!
Michael Garnett please 8)

Haha!

Looks like I'm yet another victim of auto-correct.  I'm not even going to bother fixing my original post, it's too funny.
Yeah lol. This is my all-time hybrid starting 5:
Stephen Jordan
Michael Miller
Larry James
Kevin Nowitzki
Bill Abdul-Jabbar
Rockets PG: Westbrook, Rivers, Clemons SG: Harden, Gordon, McLemore
SF: House, Carroll, Caboclo PF: Covington, Green, Williams
C: Tucker, Hartenstein, Bender
Warriors PG: Curry, Jackson, Bowman SG: Thompson, Lee, Poole
SF: Wiggins, Okoro, Anderson PF: Green, Paschall, MKG
C: Looney, Chriss, Smiley

Re: MJs top starting five
« Reply #55 on: May 26, 2020, 02:43:41 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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There are so many deserving players but I'd settle on the following for an all-time starting 5

Oscar Robinson
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Kevin Garnett
Bill Russell
Oscar Robinson would have been the GOAT! A hybrid of Oscar Robertson and David Robinson? That would have been special! :P

Gimme Bill Bird though. Bird's shooting/scoring and basketball IQ + Russell's athleticism, defense and unparalleled winning mentality. Just wow!
Michael Garnett please 8)

Haha!

Looks like I'm yet another victim of auto-correct.  I'm not even going to bother fixing my original post, it's too funny.
Yeah lol. This is my all-time hybrid starting 5:
Stephen Jordan
Michael Miller
Larry James
Kevin Nowitzki
Bill Abdul-Jabbar

Bill Abdul-Jabbar (the former Lewis Russell) is a totally unfair mash-up.

Combining 7-2 height, olympic-track-level jumping athleticism, super instinctual shot contention & team defense and unstoppable scoring touch from within 8 feet.  Averages 30+ points, 25 rebounds, 6 assists, 10 blocks and 5 steals per game.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: MJs top starting five
« Reply #56 on: May 26, 2020, 03:06:00 PM »

Online DefenseWinsChamps

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There are so many deserving players but I'd settle on the following for an all-time starting 5

Oscar Robinson
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Kevin Garnett
Bill Russell
Oscar Robinson would have been the GOAT! A hybrid of Oscar Robertson and David Robinson? That would have been special! :P

Gimme Bill Bird though. Bird's shooting/scoring and basketball IQ + Russell's athleticism, defense and unparalleled winning mentality. Just wow!
Michael Garnett please 8)

Haha!

Looks like I'm yet another victim of auto-correct.  I'm not even going to bother fixing my original post, it's too funny.
Yeah lol. This is my all-time hybrid starting 5:
Stephen Jordan
Michael Miller
Larry James
Kevin Nowitzki
Bill Abdul-Jabbar

Bill Abdul-Jabbar (the former Lewis Russell) is a totally unfair mash-up.

Combining 7-2 height, olympic-track-level jumping athleticism, super instinctual shot contention & team defense and unstoppable scoring touch from within 8 feet.  Averages 30+ points, 25 rebounds, 6 assists, 10 blocks and 5 steals per game.

Do you mean Wilt Chamberlin?
2020 Mock Off-season: Orlando Magic
Starters: Myles Turner, Aaron Gordon, Joe Harris, Bradley Beal, Jamal Murray
Bench: Satoransky, Dunn, Plumlee, Augstine, Ennis
Deep bench: O'Quinn, Birch, Okeke, Hampton, Sumner
Draft picks: All minus 2022 1st and 2024 1st, plus 2022 2nd (most favorable of Chi, Det, LAL)

Re: MJs top starting five
« Reply #57 on: May 26, 2020, 05:27:58 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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There are so many deserving players but I'd settle on the following for an all-time starting 5

Oscar Robinson
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Kevin Garnett
Bill Russell
Oscar Robinson would have been the GOAT! A hybrid of Oscar Robertson and David Robinson? That would have been special! :P

Gimme Bill Bird though. Bird's shooting/scoring and basketball IQ + Russell's athleticism, defense and unparalleled winning mentality. Just wow!
Michael Garnett please 8)

Haha!

Looks like I'm yet another victim of auto-correct.  I'm not even going to bother fixing my original post, it's too funny.
Yeah lol. This is my all-time hybrid starting 5:
Stephen Jordan
Michael Miller
Larry James
Kevin Nowitzki
Bill Abdul-Jabbar

Bill Abdul-Jabbar (the former Lewis Russell) is a totally unfair mash-up.

Combining 7-2 height, olympic-track-level jumping athleticism, super instinctual shot contention & team defense and unstoppable scoring touch from within 8 feet.  Averages 30+ points, 25 rebounds, 6 assists, 10 blocks and 5 steals per game.
Average passing + below average ball handling + no shooting though. :P

Bill Bird would be killin it! Elite shooting + elite scoring + elite passing + elite basketball IQ + elite defense + elite rebounding + elite athleticism + elite work ethic + unparalleled winning mentality! Can't beat that!
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 05:36:20 PM by Jvalin »

Re: MJs top starting five
« Reply #58 on: May 26, 2020, 05:41:53 PM »

Offline Moranis

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honestly if I'm combining players, I'm not sure I'd use Jordan.  I think he would be difficult to pair and still get what made Jordan so great.  So I'd something a bit more unconventional and combine the following

PG - Magic Johnson / John Stockton
SG - Oscar Robertson / Jerry West
SF - Lebron James / Kevin Durant
PF - Tim Duncan / Dirk Nowitzki
C - Wilt Chamberlain / Hakeem Olajuwon

I think that would be an incredible combination of skill sets.  I like Stockton's shooting and tenacity with Magic's size, power, etc.  I like the overall skill set of both Oscar West, and man what a ball handling backcourt that would be when paired with Magic Stockton.  I think Lebron Durant would just mix very well.  You get the shooting of Durant with Lebron's passing, rebounding, durability, etc.  I was clearly taking the Big Fundamental at PF and think that Dirk would provide the correct complimentary skill set.  I think Dirk Duncan would be a near perfect PF for just about any era.  As unstoppable as Wilt was, I think adding in the overall most skilled center would be the perfect mix for his skill set, and Hakeem Chamberlain would be unstoppable on both ends of the court. 
Historical Draft - Portland Trailblazers
PG - Magic Johnson, Tony Parker
SG - Clyde Drexler, Dennis Johnson, Alvin Robertson
SF - James Worthy, Alex English
PF - Charles Barkley, Ben Wallace
C - Moses Malone, George Mikan, Brad Daugherty

Re: MJs top starting five
« Reply #59 on: May 26, 2020, 08:25:52 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Hybrid 5 is a cool concept. For me it's just adding top athletes with more shooting so

Steph Robinson
Klay Jordan
LeBron Bird
Kevin Nowitzki
Wilt Okur