Author Topic: Patriots 2020 Season  (Read 18459 times)

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Re: Patriots 2020 Season
« Reply #270 on: October 26, 2020, 02:17:10 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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So in my entire life, I'll admit, I don't think I've felt that bad and disappointed after a Pats game. Like they've had bad losses over the years, including that 2014 beatdown at Arrowhead (leading to "On to Cincinatti") and the 2009 Wild Card game. But at least those games you still felt they could bounceback, had the talent and that the other team just looked better that game. It wasn't like you questioned their characters or effort-levels.

But this one? SF played fantastic but our team looked like they didn't want to be there. Terrible effort on both sides, and even Belichick looks like he's checked out over the last few weeks. Edelman isn't 100% and he's also mentally checked out. Just bad stuff all around. Really not many bright spots at the moment.

Good news is, they do have cash to spend in FA and maybe this is a "bridge year", though the QB picture going forward is still murky and will be the biggest question mark.

They've lost 3 in a row for the first time in the longest time. Sigh, hate to say it but Boston Sports is looking to be very depressing for years to come.
It’s depressing relative to the 20 years we’ve enjoyed winning 12 titles over the 4 major sports, but that’s a silly bar.

The Pats still have the best coach in the NFL and get to hit a hard reset this offseason. Not ideal as anyone without a QB is in for a bumpy ride, but I trust Bill more than anyone in the recent history to have this team competing in short order.

The Bruins probably have to hit a bit of a reset but their outlook falls short of depressing imo. The Celtics are primed for years of contention. Probably the third or fourth brightest future in the league.

The Red Sox will be back soon too. Bloom put together this Rays team and we’ve already seen a lot of his moves panning out. I expect Boston to be sustainably back in the 90+ win range the year after next.
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Re: Patriots 2020 Season
« Reply #271 on: October 26, 2020, 02:27:37 AM »

Online ozgod

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The Cardinals seem to me like an obvious example of how big a difference it makes in the modern NFL to draft the right player at QB.  Without a dynamic superstar at QB your team is irrelevant, bound to struggle.  With one, you have a chance to do exciting things.

At the same time, it's clear that outright tanking in the NFL doesn't really work.  The best QBs are often not taken in the top 10 of the draft.  I don't know where that leaves fans of teams without a clear answer at QB.  At least in the NBA you can try to get excited about ping pong balls.

Your comment made me do some research on where all the starting QBs in 2020 have been taken. Exactly 16 of the 32 starting QBs were taken in the top 10. Whether they are the top QBs in the league is another story though. Of those 16 the only ones that have won SuperBowls are: Nick Foles (88), Aaron Rodgers (24), Patrick Mahomes (10), Cam Newton (1), Drew Brees (32), Ben Roethlisberger (11), Russell Wilson (75), and Tom Brady (199). Incidentally Tom is the lowest picked starting QB in the league right now. And Murray, Allen, Burrow, Mayfield, Tue, Jones and Darnold have been in the league for less than 4 years. They could still turn into franchise QBs but the jury is still out on them.

That said, it's still probably worth Tanking for Trevor  :angel:

Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Patriots 2020 Season
« Reply #272 on: October 26, 2020, 07:22:50 AM »

Offline jbpats

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I love the Pats but I find myself angrily rooting against them this season. Not to tank for Trevor, although that would be nice, but because I’ve been on Brady’s side of this divorce from day 1.

Bill did Brady dirty, the man sacrificed for this team for 20 years and brought us to 9 Super Bowls. I know part of Brady wanted to leave also but I have no doubt he would have stayed for a fair and well earned contract.

Bill just feels he’s above it all, the players, the media, everyone.. and this year we might be seeing first hand that Tom is not a systems QB and maybe just maybe he had a helluva lot to do with all those years of success.

I wish I could be one of those fans that can put the shield before the player but I haven’t been able to in this situation and just can’t bring myself to root for the Patriots this year. In a way Bill put himself in front of the team this year to prove he can win without Brady. Looks like he was wrong.

Re: Patriots 2020 Season
« Reply #273 on: October 26, 2020, 11:48:49 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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The Cardinals seem to me like an obvious example of how big a difference it makes in the modern NFL to draft the right player at QB.  Without a dynamic superstar at QB your team is irrelevant, bound to struggle.  With one, you have a chance to do exciting things.

At the same time, it's clear that outright tanking in the NFL doesn't really work.  The best QBs are often not taken in the top 10 of the draft.  I don't know where that leaves fans of teams without a clear answer at QB.  At least in the NBA you can try to get excited about ping pong balls.

Your comment made me do some research on where all the starting QBs in 2020 have been taken. Exactly 16 of the 32 starting QBs were taken in the top 10. Whether they are the top QBs in the league is another story though. Of those 16 the only ones that have won SuperBowls are: Nick Foles (88), Aaron Rodgers (24), Patrick Mahomes (10), Cam Newton (1), Drew Brees (32), Ben Roethlisberger (11), Russell Wilson (75), and Tom Brady (199). Incidentally Tom is the lowest picked starting QB in the league right now. And Murray, Allen, Burrow, Mayfield, Tue, Jones and Darnold have been in the league for less than 4 years. They could still turn into franchise QBs but the jury is still out on them.

That said, it's still probably worth Tanking for Trevor  :angel:




You make a good point that the evidence does seem to be strong that picking in the top 10 or so of the draft is the best way to get a long term starter at the QB position, even if that guy doesn't become top 5 in the league.


I think my fear is seeing the Pats turn into the Dolphins, Bears, or Browns -- shuffling through QBs endlessly for decades.
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Re: Patriots 2020 Season
« Reply #274 on: October 28, 2020, 11:58:48 PM »

Offline Moranis

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The Cardinals seem to me like an obvious example of how big a difference it makes in the modern NFL to draft the right player at QB.  Without a dynamic superstar at QB your team is irrelevant, bound to struggle.  With one, you have a chance to do exciting things.

At the same time, it's clear that outright tanking in the NFL doesn't really work.  The best QBs are often not taken in the top 10 of the draft.  I don't know where that leaves fans of teams without a clear answer at QB.  At least in the NBA you can try to get excited about ping pong balls.

Your comment made me do some research on where all the starting QBs in 2020 have been taken. Exactly 16 of the 32 starting QBs were taken in the top 10. Whether they are the top QBs in the league is another story though. Of those 16 the only ones that have won SuperBowls are: Nick Foles (88), Aaron Rodgers (24), Patrick Mahomes (10), Cam Newton (1), Drew Brees (32), Ben Roethlisberger (11), Russell Wilson (75), and Tom Brady (199). Incidentally Tom is the lowest picked starting QB in the league right now. And Murray, Allen, Burrow, Mayfield, Tue, Jones and Darnold have been in the league for less than 4 years. They could still turn into franchise QBs but the jury is still out on them.

That said, it's still probably worth Tanking for Trevor  :angel:




You make a good point that the evidence does seem to be strong that picking in the top 10 or so of the draft is the best way to get a long term starter at the QB position, even if that guy doesn't become top 5 in the league.


I think my fear is seeing the Pats turn into the Dolphins, Bears, or Browns -- shuffling through QBs endlessly for decades.
I don't know that that is necessarily true because you have to account for all the failures.  Teams reach tremendously for QB's so they, by and large, go a lot higher than they should. 

2008 - Ryan went 3rd, Flacco 18th. Henne in the 2nd round.  13 drafted overall
2009 - Stafford and Sanchez were the top 10 picks. Josh Freeman went mid 1st. No one else worth mentioning.  11 drafted overall.
2010 - Bradford went 1, Tebow went 25 as the only 1st rounders.  Clausen was the only 2nd rounder.  Colt McCoy went in the 3rd.  Rest of the draft was garbage.  13 QB's overall.
2011 - Cam, Locker and Gabbert were all top ten picks (so just 1 of 3 hitting).  Ponder went 12th (another miss).  Dalton and Kaepernick were solid 2nd round selections.  Tyrod Taylor went in the 6th round.  12 taken overall.
2012 - Luck and RG3 were the first two picks and Tannehill came in at 8th (and look what he turned into like a decade later).  Weedon went 22nd and Osweiler was the only 2nd round pick.  The 3rd round was fantastic though with Russell Wilson and Nick Foles, and Kirk Cousins coming in the early 4th.  11 taken overall
2013 - No top 10 QB and only EJ Manual went in the 1st.  Geno Smith was the only 2nd rounder. 11 QB's taken and seemingly unchallenged as the worst QB draft ever.
2014 - Bortles went 3rd.  Manziel 22nd before Bridgewater was the last pick in the 1st round.  Carr and Grappolo were both 2nd round picks. 14 QB's drafted overall. 
2015 - the first 2 picks were QB's (Winston & Mariotta), the next QB taken was in round 3 (Garrett Grayson who basically didn't play in the league) and there were only 7 taken
2016 - the first 2 picks were again QB's (Goff & Wentz) - Lynch went at the end of the 1st, Hackenberg in the 2nd, Brissett and Kessler in the 3rd, Dak Prescott in the 4th, and a bunch of other players mixed in with 15 total drafted
2017 - the first QB was Trubisky and Mahomes went 10th.  Watson 12th.  Peterman went in the 5th round. 10 QB's were taken no one else really worth mentioning
2018 - 4 top 10 QB picks - Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Rosen.  Lamar Jackson went at the end of the 1st.  The next QB taken was Rudolph in the 3rd.  14 QB's ended being drafted
2019 - Murray and Daniel Jones went in the top 6.  Haskins went 15th.  Drew Lock in the 2nd, Ryan Finley and Jarrett Stidham in the 4th

You can go back further and see similar patterns.  There are a lot of misses at the top of the draft.  Sure you get a lot of great players, but the bust rate is high.  Even guys that seem ok like Mayfield and Darnold, you wonder if the Browns were better off going in a different direction (either trading the pick or taking Barkley, Ward, Chubb, etc.) and the Jets would have been better off not trading up.  The year before Chicago traded up for Trubisky.  That obviously was a terrible move.  Teams do crazy things for QB's and it quite often back fires.

All that said, Trevor Lawrence is a monster.  The best QB prospect since Peyton Manning.  He could dominate the league for years.  Though they said the same thing about Andrew Luck who walked away after 6 injury riddle seasons without making a Superbowl (and just 1 conference final). 
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Re: Patriots 2020 Season
« Reply #275 on: October 29, 2020, 12:51:31 AM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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I feel like QB is the biggest draft risk, as there have been LOTS of QBs drafted first or second who didn't pan out, including several who were "can't miss" prospects. And there have been some QBs taken in the second round or later (including our very own Tom Brady) who turned out pretty dang well. For my money, I wouldn't use a No. 1 or 2 pick on a QB.
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Re: Patriots 2020 Season
« Reply #276 on: October 29, 2020, 10:24:43 AM »

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John Harbaugh and Mike Tomlin will coach against each for the 25th time in the regular season on Sunday.  That will set the all time record of regular season matchups in the Superbowl era and the way they are going they might do it 25 more times before they are done.
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Re: Patriots 2020 Season
« Reply #277 on: October 29, 2020, 10:55:14 AM »

Online RPGenerate

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The Cardinals seem to me like an obvious example of how big a difference it makes in the modern NFL to draft the right player at QB.  Without a dynamic superstar at QB your team is irrelevant, bound to struggle.  With one, you have a chance to do exciting things.

At the same time, it's clear that outright tanking in the NFL doesn't really work.  The best QBs are often not taken in the top 10 of the draft.  I don't know where that leaves fans of teams without a clear answer at QB.  At least in the NBA you can try to get excited about ping pong balls.

Your comment made me do some research on where all the starting QBs in 2020 have been taken. Exactly 16 of the 32 starting QBs were taken in the top 10. Whether they are the top QBs in the league is another story though. Of those 16 the only ones that have won SuperBowls are: Nick Foles (88), Aaron Rodgers (24), Patrick Mahomes (10), Cam Newton (1), Drew Brees (32), Ben Roethlisberger (11), Russell Wilson (75), and Tom Brady (199). Incidentally Tom is the lowest picked starting QB in the league right now. And Murray, Allen, Burrow, Mayfield, Tue, Jones and Darnold have been in the league for less than 4 years. They could still turn into franchise QBs but the jury is still out on them.

That said, it's still probably worth Tanking for Trevor  :angel:




You make a good point that the evidence does seem to be strong that picking in the top 10 or so of the draft is the best way to get a long term starter at the QB position, even if that guy doesn't become top 5 in the league.


I think my fear is seeing the Pats turn into the Dolphins, Bears, or Browns -- shuffling through QBs endlessly for decades.
I don't know that that is necessarily true because you have to account for all the failures.  Teams reach tremendously for QB's so they, by and large, go a lot higher than they should. 

2008 - Ryan went 3rd, Flacco 18th. Henne in the 2nd round.  13 drafted overall
2009 - Stafford and Sanchez were the top 10 picks. Josh Freeman went mid 1st. No one else worth mentioning.  11 drafted overall.
2010 - Bradford went 1, Tebow went 25 as the only 1st rounders.  Clausen was the only 2nd rounder.  Colt McCoy went in the 3rd.  Rest of the draft was garbage.  13 QB's overall.
2011 - Cam, Locker and Gabbert were all top ten picks (so just 1 of 3 hitting).  Ponder went 12th (another miss).  Dalton and Kaepernick were solid 2nd round selections.  Tyrod Taylor went in the 6th round.  12 taken overall.
2012 - Luck and RG3 were the first two picks and Tannehill came in at 8th (and look what he turned into like a decade later).  Weedon went 22nd and Osweiler was the only 2nd round pick.  The 3rd round was fantastic though with Russell Wilson and Nick Foles, and Kirk Cousins coming in the early 4th.  11 taken overall
2013 - No top 10 QB and only EJ Manual went in the 1st.  Geno Smith was the only 2nd rounder. 11 QB's taken and seemingly unchallenged as the worst QB draft ever.
2014 - Bortles went 3rd.  Manziel 22nd before Bridgewater was the last pick in the 1st round.  Carr and Grappolo were both 2nd round picks. 14 QB's drafted overall. 
2015 - the first 2 picks were QB's (Winston & Mariotta), the next QB taken was in round 3 (Garrett Grayson who basically didn't play in the league) and there were only 7 taken
2016 - the first 2 picks were again QB's (Goff & Wentz) - Lynch went at the end of the 1st, Hackenberg in the 2nd, Brissett and Kessler in the 3rd, Dak Prescott in the 4th, and a bunch of other players mixed in with 15 total drafted
2017 - the first QB was Trubisky and Mahomes went 10th.  Watson 12th.  Peterman went in the 5th round. 10 QB's were taken no one else really worth mentioning
2018 - 4 top 10 QB picks - Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Rosen.  Lamar Jackson went at the end of the 1st.  The next QB taken was Rudolph in the 3rd.  14 QB's ended being drafted
2019 - Murray and Daniel Jones went in the top 6.  Haskins went 15th.  Drew Lock in the 2nd, Ryan Finley and Jarrett Stidham in the 4th

You can go back further and see similar patterns.  There are a lot of misses at the top of the draft.  Sure you get a lot of great players, but the bust rate is high.  Even guys that seem ok like Mayfield and Darnold, you wonder if the Browns were better off going in a different direction (either trading the pick or taking Barkley, Ward, Chubb, etc.) and the Jets would have been better off not trading up.  The year before Chicago traded up for Trubisky.  That obviously was a terrible move.  Teams do crazy things for QB's and it quite often back fires.

All that said, Trevor Lawrence is a monster.  The best QB prospect since Peyton Manning.  He could dominate the league for years.  Though they said the same thing about Andrew Luck who walked away after 6 injury riddle seasons without making a Superbowl (and just 1 conference final).
Tbf, that only happened because the Colts completely wrecked Luck by not giving him an O-line until it was way too late. If Luck went to a team that wasn't run by morons at the time, we could be having a very different conversation.
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Re: Patriots 2020 Season
« Reply #278 on: October 30, 2020, 07:27:00 AM »

Online ozgod

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Julian has undergone a knee procedure and is expected to miss some time. Also, N'Keal Harry is expected to miss the game vs. the Bills.

Quote
FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- New England Patriots wide receiver Julian Edelman underwent a precautionary standard knee procedure Thursday morning, a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter, and is expected to miss Sunday's road game against the Buffalo Bills.

The Patriots are practicing in the rain Thursday and Edelman is not on the field with his teammates. He practiced on a limited basis Wednesday.

Edelman, 34, has been limited all season because of his knee, and a source told ESPN he is expected to be sidelined for "some period of time." He leads the team with 21 receptions for 315 yards.

The Patriots also could be without receiver N'Keal Harry on Sunday, as he remains sidelined because of a concussion. That would leave the Patriots with just Damiere Byrd, Jakobi Meyers and Gunner Olszewski at receiver, likely leading to the team promoting someone from the practice squad.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30217833/source-new-england-patriots-julian-edelman-precautionary-knee-procedure-sunday

Cam sucks at throwing it anyway...maybe he can go 200+ yards rushing this weekend  :laugh:
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Patriots 2020 Season
« Reply #279 on: October 31, 2020, 04:57:24 AM »

Online gouki88

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Julian has undergone a knee procedure and is expected to miss some time. Also, N'Keal Harry is expected to miss the game vs. the Bills.

Quote
FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- New England Patriots wide receiver Julian Edelman underwent a precautionary standard knee procedure Thursday morning, a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter, and is expected to miss Sunday's road game against the Buffalo Bills.

The Patriots are practicing in the rain Thursday and Edelman is not on the field with his teammates. He practiced on a limited basis Wednesday.

Edelman, 34, has been limited all season because of his knee, and a source told ESPN he is expected to be sidelined for "some period of time." He leads the team with 21 receptions for 315 yards.

The Patriots also could be without receiver N'Keal Harry on Sunday, as he remains sidelined because of a concussion. That would leave the Patriots with just Damiere Byrd, Jakobi Meyers and Gunner Olszewski at receiver, likely leading to the team promoting someone from the practice squad.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30217833/source-new-england-patriots-julian-edelman-precautionary-knee-procedure-sunday

Cam sucks at throwing it anyway...maybe he can go 200+ yards rushing this weekend  :laugh:
Jeesh. Gotta wonder how much Jules has left in the tank. He's 34, and from 2013-2019 he was a solid 90 catch 1000 yard a season guy. Been really beaten up over a long great career.

Not much in the way of positives this year, but how great of a pick has Michael Onwenu been? Steal of the draft so far! So far he's lined up as a jumbo TE, RT, RG and LG. He's also been statistically the second best offensive lineman in the whole competition, allowing just four pressures in 138 snaps. He's routinely ragdolling D-line players. He is putting up a legitimate All-Pro campaign!

Not a flashy silver lining, but it still is one
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Re: Patriots 2020 Season
« Reply #280 on: October 31, 2020, 08:43:40 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Julian has undergone a knee procedure and is expected to miss some time. Also, N'Keal Harry is expected to miss the game vs. the Bills.

Quote
FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- New England Patriots wide receiver Julian Edelman underwent a precautionary standard knee procedure Thursday morning, a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter, and is expected to miss Sunday's road game against the Buffalo Bills.

The Patriots are practicing in the rain Thursday and Edelman is not on the field with his teammates. He practiced on a limited basis Wednesday.

Edelman, 34, has been limited all season because of his knee, and a source told ESPN he is expected to be sidelined for "some period of time." He leads the team with 21 receptions for 315 yards.

The Patriots also could be without receiver N'Keal Harry on Sunday, as he remains sidelined because of a concussion. That would leave the Patriots with just Damiere Byrd, Jakobi Meyers and Gunner Olszewski at receiver, likely leading to the team promoting someone from the practice squad.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30217833/source-new-england-patriots-julian-edelman-precautionary-knee-procedure-sunday

Cam sucks at throwing it anyway...maybe he can go 200+ yards rushing this weekend  :laugh:

I think they got to start using their gameplan from Miami again. Even if it means Newton having to run like 10-15 times, so be it. I know people will say it's not sustainable in a season, and my response to that is, "who cares??". Even Newton knows his job could be in legit jeopardy with another bad performance, and the Pats are currently 2-4. If they want to actually compete and potentially fight for a playoff spot or even the division, they need to unleash Cam in the RPO and run-game again. Otherwise, just keep trying what you did in Denver and SF, sure that'll work!

Also I feel for Edelman, and I think he's done. It seems the knee injury is always going to exist now in some capacity and he's taken a lot of beatings over the year. I'm not ready to say he's done for good, as he could pull a Gronk by taking 1 year off, but his days as a Patriot could be numbered. In football terms though, it was clear he wasn't right and it's not like they'll miss him going forward because frankly he wasn't doing anything the last few games anyways. Maybe this opens up opportunities for the young guys and they feel a bit more urgency now to produce.
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Re: Patriots 2020 Season
« Reply #281 on: October 31, 2020, 09:23:26 AM »

Online ozgod

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Julian has undergone a knee procedure and is expected to miss some time. Also, N'Keal Harry is expected to miss the game vs. the Bills.

Quote
FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- New England Patriots wide receiver Julian Edelman underwent a precautionary standard knee procedure Thursday morning, a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter, and is expected to miss Sunday's road game against the Buffalo Bills.

The Patriots are practicing in the rain Thursday and Edelman is not on the field with his teammates. He practiced on a limited basis Wednesday.

Edelman, 34, has been limited all season because of his knee, and a source told ESPN he is expected to be sidelined for "some period of time." He leads the team with 21 receptions for 315 yards.

The Patriots also could be without receiver N'Keal Harry on Sunday, as he remains sidelined because of a concussion. That would leave the Patriots with just Damiere Byrd, Jakobi Meyers and Gunner Olszewski at receiver, likely leading to the team promoting someone from the practice squad.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30217833/source-new-england-patriots-julian-edelman-precautionary-knee-procedure-sunday

Cam sucks at throwing it anyway...maybe he can go 200+ yards rushing this weekend  :laugh:

I think they got to start using their gameplan from Miami again. Even if it means Newton having to run like 10-15 times, so be it. I know people will say it's not sustainable in a season, and my response to that is, "who cares??". Even Newton knows his job could be in legit jeopardy with another bad performance, and the Pats are currently 2-4. If they want to actually compete and potentially fight for a playoff spot or even the division, they need to unleash Cam in the RPO and run-game again. Otherwise, just keep trying what you did in Denver and SF, sure that'll work!

Also I feel for Edelman, and I think he's done. It seems the knee injury is always going to exist now in some capacity and he's taken a lot of beatings over the year. I'm not ready to say he's done for good, as he could pull a Gronk by taking 1 year off, but his days as a Patriot could be numbered. In football terms though, it was clear he wasn't right and it's not like they'll miss him going forward because frankly he wasn't doing anything the last few games anyways. Maybe this opens up opportunities for the young guys and they feel a bit more urgency now to produce.

Also if we're not planning on keeping Cam after this year, who cares how many miles we put on his knees. Like a rental car we should stomp on his accelerator.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Patriots 2020 Season
« Reply #282 on: November 01, 2020, 02:49:05 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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14-6 3rd quarter

Bills leading

Patriots pretty much, must win


Re: Patriots 2020 Season
« Reply #283 on: November 01, 2020, 02:50:59 PM »

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Newton is terrible


Re: Patriots 2020 Season
« Reply #284 on: November 01, 2020, 03:20:22 PM »

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Pats look so sad