Gordon Hayward Foot Soreness

[ChillyWilly]

So we can't question a players ability to be on the court or we are poor thinking humans?

You won't change my mind by insulting me. RW misses a lot of time for a lot of different reasons. My personal take is dude won't play through any type of discomfort.

Sometimes people get injured a bunch of times. Do you at least see why a player wouldn’t play after diagnosis with a bone marrow edema? Look up the condition. It’s not just very painful, it also means bone strength is compromised.

I'm not questioning his injuries nor do I doubt this is significant but I do question his ability to be available over his 2 seasons here.

Not sure why questioning such things make you some sort of low brow fan.

Best ability in sports is availability.

Saying, man he can't be available is fine. People coming on here for them jokes or comments about "toughness" though. That's a  .

And its kinda all related to it being injuries. No one really minds people joking about teams/players that always seem to collapse or don't have fight in them. (Hi Knicks, Hi Atlanta, Hi "should be all-star 6-24 Trae Young")

I didn't realize my take on RW was done to get lulz. I'm confident my statement was just that a statement the guy is out a lot for lots of different reasons.

I not even sure what Nick's beef is with my comment anyways. Is it tough and heart don't exist or we not allowed to question it?

When I saw him take a second dig at me in another thread over it I started to wonder if he was RW mama. Although Nick comes hard with the insults at any of my takes he doesn't like. Again solidifying my suspicion he's RW mama.

[Somebody]

So we can't question a players ability to be on the court or we are poor thinking humans?

You won't change my mind by insulting me. RW misses a lot of time for a lot of different reasons. My personal take is dude won't play through any type of discomfort.

Sometimes people get injured a bunch of times. Do you at least see why a player wouldn’t play after diagnosis with a bone marrow edema? Look up the condition. It’s not just very painful, it also means bone strength is compromised.

I'm not questioning his injuries nor do I doubt this is significant but I do question his ability to be available over his 2 seasons here.

Not sure why questioning such things make you some sort of low brow fan.

Best ability in sports is availability.

Saying, man he can't be available is fine. People coming on here for them jokes or comments about "toughness" though. That's a  .

And its kinda all related to it being injuries. No one really minds people joking about teams/players that always seem to collapse or don't have fight in them. (Hi Knicks, Hi Atlanta, Hi "should be all-star 6-24 Trae Young")

I mind you questioning Trae's heart tbh although I get your point about making fun of bad teams and players who put up good stats on them. I think Trae's offence is really good, he's no Doncic but his combination of volume scoring on above average efficiency (58.4% TS) and high quality tablesetting (the assists numbers stand out, but the quality of the assists are eye-popping as well: his knack for finding high value inside looks for his teammates is something really valuable when you're comparing passing-oriented offensive engines against each other) is honestly All-Star worthy even though his defence is craptastic. Think of it like this: when have you seen an offensive engine play with only two viable rotation players (Huerter and Hunter) who can shoot passably? That's Trae's situation in Atlanta without Collins, you can't seriously expect anyone but the GOATs to carry two teammates who can't throw it into the ocean when those two guys aren't very good offensive players to begin with (so they can't run any effective offence to alleviate their shooting woes).

But laughing at his situation is definitely something I understand lol, I just don't appreciate laughing at his quality and heart in the landfill known as the Atlanta Hawks.

[MaxAMillion]

So we can't question a players ability to be on the court or we are poor thinking humans?

You won't change my mind by insulting me. RW misses a lot of time for a lot of different reasons. My personal take is dude won't play through any type of discomfort.

Good for you...people criticize Tatum all the time but suddenly we can't question injured players? GH makes $30 million per year but he is off limits while Tatum gets ripped almost daily. At least Tatum gets on the court and contributes.

[nickagneta]

Here are your quotes on the topic:

My personal take is dude won't play through any type of discomfort.

Williams seems to have low pain tolerance....

Some guys only ball when they feel 98%+

These aren't questioning his availability. It's questioning a whole bunch of other stuff, especially when the guy has a bone edema.

Questioning his availability is saying the guy seems injury prone and you wish he was available more.

[Fafnir]

But laughing at his situation is definitely something I understand lol, I just don't appreciate laughing at his quality and heart in the landfill known as the Atlanta Hawks.

He is getting blown up as an all-star guy because of his offensive numbers so I kinda get why he's yelling at the front office for help.

But he's the worst defensive player in the league and gives back essentially everything he gets on the offensive end. Scream about help all you want, but if you can't be worse than IT4 on that end and point fingers at your teammates about "winning".

[Vermont Green]

So we can't question a players ability to be on the court or we are poor thinking humans?

You won't change my mind by insulting me. RW misses a lot of time for a lot of different reasons. My personal take is dude won't play through any type of discomfort.

Good for you...people criticize Tatum all the time but suddenly we can't question injured players? GH makes $30 million per year but he is off limits while Tatum gets ripped almost daily. At least Tatum gets on the court and contributes.

If you call it durability then you can think of this as a physical trait similar to speed or leaping ability or whatever.  Some human bodies are more durable than other human bodies.  If the question is about a players toughness or some other mental attribute that is preventing a player from getting back on the court, then it becomes a different discussion.

I think durability for an athlete is a genetic or "god given" attribute.  Some really great athletes are just not durable.  Their bodies break down more easily than other athletes.  The idea of toughness or mental toughness is a harder attribute to assess in terms of what is the source of it.  Is a really mentally tough athlete tough just because they want to be tough or is this a "god given" attribute too.

I don't have any question about Gordon Hayward's mental toughness or work ethic or whatever you want to call it.  I do question his durability moving forward.

[Fafnir]

Exactly. VG

For me its like questioning a player's work ethic for not becoming a better shooter to me. Plenty of guys bust their ass trying to improve their shot, but they just aren't talented shooters and never become shooters. (Rondo for example genuinely improved over his career but still isn't a shooter at all)

The only areas I really feel justified in criticizing players for effort is what you see the court and physical fitness/weight. You don't know what level of pain, what level of damage, and what sort of treatments they endure to try and play. Pretending that you do know is silly.

[Somebody]

But laughing at his situation is definitely something I understand lol, I just don't appreciate laughing at his quality and heart in the landfill known as the Atlanta Hawks.

He is getting blown up as an all-star guy because of his offensive numbers so I kinda get why he's yelling at the front office for help.

But he's the worst defensive player in the league and gives back essentially everything he gets on the offensive end. Scream about help all you want, but if you can't be worse than IT4 on that end and point fingers at your teammates about "winning".

As I mentioned in my prior post, his numbers aren't "empty" - there's actual quality behind his passing and scoring. He's certainly historically bad on defence, but you can hide him on that end in a heliocentric model that surrounds him with 3 and D wings and rim running defensive bigs who can stretch the floor a bit (cough cough like the Celtics roster) and achieve some really good results with him running the offence imo.

I don't buy the "scream about help all you want, but you need to be at least passable on both ends of the court before you point fingers at your craptastic teammates" argument btw. The cast he currently has is so bad that it makes the tanking Suns teams in the mid-late 2010s look like world beaters, you can't seriously expect every player to show a KG-esque effort in carrying a team before you say he's worthy of contending for an All-Star selection. I think Trae's complaints about his supporting cast are very valid, the guys he's playing with redefine the definition of a bad squad for a young star.

[Fafnir]

I think Trae's complaints about his supporting cast are very valid, the guys he's playing with redefine the definition of a bad squad for a young star.

Well here is the issue then, Trae's teammates complaints about selfishness and finger pointing are as valid as any of Trae's complaints.

They're losing all these games on the defensive end of the court and when you leader doesn't even TRY on that end...well you have the Hawks!

[nickagneta]

Probably best to get back on subject. Trae Young talk can have its own thread if you want to start one.

[Birdman]

I wouldnt rush Hayward back..need him in April..just let him fully heal cause foot problems can get worse

[footey]

According to Boston Globe article today, the 3rd cortisone shot seemed to do the trick.  Its apparently an uncooperative nerve that is the source of the pain. Hayward is convinced it is a by-product of his break back in 2017.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2019/12/24/gordon-hayward-ready-return-action-celtics-christmas-game/4KOnhMF2m7JoxchVHfLzYI/story.html

[hpantazo]

According to Boston Globe article today, the 3rd cortisone shot seemed to do the trick.  Its apparently an uncooperative nerve that is the source of the pain. Hayward is convinced it is a by-product of his break back in 2017.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2019/12/24/gordon-hayward-ready-return-action-celtics-christmas-game/4KOnhMF2m7JoxchVHfLzYI/story.html

That’s a bit worrisome long term. Cortisone shots don’t solve the root of the issue, they just get rid of the pain for a while.

[Fafnir]

According to Boston Globe article today, the 3rd cortisone shot seemed to do the trick.  Its apparently an uncooperative nerve that is the source of the pain. Hayward is convinced it is a by-product of his break back in 2017.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2019/12/24/gordon-hayward-ready-return-action-celtics-christmas-game/4KOnhMF2m7JoxchVHfLzYI/story.html

That’s a bit worrisome long term. Cortisone shots don’t solve the root of the issue, they just get rid of the pain for a while.

Eh it depends on what the "root issue" is. If its inflammation that's pinching the nerve, which causes pain and more inflammation then it might settle it all down.

If there is something else they just missed structurally, then no it won't.

[Mahk E Mahk]

According to Boston Globe article today, the 3rd cortisone shot seemed to do the trick.  Its apparently an uncooperative nerve that is the source of the pain. Hayward is convinced it is a by-product of his break back in 2017.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2019/12/24/gordon-hayward-ready-return-action-celtics-christmas-game/4KOnhMF2m7JoxchVHfLzYI/story.html

That’s a bit worrisome long term. Cortisone shots don’t solve the root of the issue, they just get rid of the pain for a while.

Eh it depends on what the "root issue" is. If its inflammation that's pinching the nerve, which causes pain and more inflammation then it might settle it all down.

If there is something else they just missed structurally, then no it won't.

agreed. i’ve had these exact cortisone shots & it took two shots over a six week period to be fully effective. even after the shots, the doc said the full effect could take a full month to achieve, as the cortisone works over time to reach its full potential. in my case, the inflammation was impinging a nerve, causing considerable pain and weakness. addressing the inflammation directly via the cortisone shots was the solution (i.e. not merely a symptomatic approach). that was nine years ago & i haven’t had a problem since. the mri likely ruled out any structural issue, which is why brad is confident it shouldn’t be an issue going forward.

i honestly don’t get the gordon hate. the ankle dislocation/fracture was a freak injury & hayward has battled back admirably. the broken hand was a wrong place, wrong time injury and gordon worked his way back more quickly than anticipated. he’s been a significant & consistent contributor to the team this year, some of which doesn’t always show up on the stat sheet.