I'm kind of disappointed in Tatum as a scorer

[footey]

I think the early comparisons of Tatum to Pierce, while well intentioned, are misleading. They play a much different style of game.  Pierce is much more of a contact/draw fouls through head fakes, etc. kind of guy.  Much craftier than Tatum. Now I'm sure Tatum will pick up some of these things as he matures. But his overall rhythm as a player is different than Pierce's.

[keevsnick]

I don't think disappointment is really fair. He's been good, he's put up very good numbers, and he's only 21. I think the reason there is disappointment at all is because people (fans and analysts) developed some pretty outrageous expectations for him. I remember one podcast after his rookie year where one host stated he would be surprised if Tatum WASN'T a top 5 player in the league eventually. And that is nuts. Development isn't linear and the best players have to improve in so many areas so significantly to reach that level thats its not guaranteed. Tatum could be very, very good this year and still be disappointing compared to some peoples expectations of him. To me, I would be fine if he scores like 1.5ppg more on marginally better efficiency and shows some better passing/foul drawing ability. That would show a clear trendline.

[Spicoli]

Maybe my expectations were too high for him. If it was any other player on the team i wouldn't have this problem. I feel that he misses way too many easy shots. He might be able to clean this up with more seasoning but i'm not sure anymore. I was sure before, now i'm not.

[dannyboy35]

  I never got the hype for Tatum. Can he be an all star one day? Definitely. Maybe he will make it s bunch of times. No idea. But Bostonians ( IMO) get crazy with expectations in players. People kept saying he’ll be a top 10 player in the entire NBA. Many were saying top 5. With 30 teams in the NBA, and so many amazing well rounded players and a peppering of big time prospects every year I don’t see it. To me he is very similar in style to Carmelo Anthony but he’s clearly not the offensive phenom he was. Melo was a monster.

[keevsnick]

Maybe my expectations were too high for him. If it was any other player on the team i wouldn't have this problem. I feel that he misses way too many easy shots. He might be able to clean this up with more seasoning but i'm not sure anymore. I was sure before, now i'm not.

Ya, one thing I've notice is he missed layups quite a bit when he has to absorb contact on the drive. I think that will get better with time/added strength. We will see, its an important year for him.

[Spicoli]

  I never got the hype for Tatum. Can he be an all star one day? Definitely. Maybe he will make it s bunch of times. No idea. But Bostonians ( IMO) get crazy with expectations in players. People kept saying he’ll be a top 10 player in the entire NBA. Many were saying top 5. With 30 teams in the NBA, and so many amazing well rounded players and a peppering of big time prospects every year I don’t see it. To me he is very similar in style to Carmelo Anthony but he’s clearly not the offensive phenom he was. Melo was a monster.

At this current point in time, these are my thoughts as well. He plays very similar to Anthony, but Anthony was better at simply putting the ball through the hole.

[No Nickname]

I think he's a younger version of Kris Middleton.  He'll get craftier and perhaps improve his shooting to match KM over the next few years.

Both are 6'8".  Middleton outweighs Tatum 222 to 208.

Regular Season Stats:
Middleton is a career 45/38/87% shooter.  4.4 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 15.7ppg, 31.7mpg
Tatum is a career 46/40/84% shooter.  5.5 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 14.8ppg, 30.8mpg

Those are kind of uncanny numbers in their similarity.

Middleton is 28, Tatum is 21.  I can see Tatum making a few All Star teams, perhaps more than Middleton will.

[Fierce1]

I don't think the Carmelo Anthony comparison is accurate.

Melo loved to play inside, using his strength against the weaker SFs.

Jayson Tatum is more of a Paul Pierce type player.
He can shoot from anywhere, drive to the basket, and post-up.

Of course we can see Brown's improvement this season.
Brown wasn't a good ball-handler and passer when he entered the NBA.

Tatum was already very good as a rookie.
That's why expectations are high.
By age 23, Tatum will be a beast!

What Tatum lacks now is strength.
He needs to bulk up.
Other than that, he's a complete player.
And it's not far-fetched to expect Jayson Tatum to be a top 10 player in the NBA soon.

[W8ting2McHale]

He is more aggressive going to the basket since FIBA, but he’s still avoiding contact. His length and body control are getting the ball in the hoop though. A couple of his weaving through traffic drives looked very Durant like to me. That kind of skill along with more decisive 3 point shooting would push him to all-star level on offense and he’s gotten better and more engaged on defense. If he can continue that he and draw fouls he will be the player I expected him to be, and soon.

[Muzzy66]

I think he's a younger version of Kris Middleton.  He'll get craftier and perhaps improve his shooting to match KM over the next few years.

Both are 6'8".  Middleton outweighs Tatum 222 to 208.

Regular Season Stats:
Middleton is a career 45/38/87% shooter.  4.4 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 15.7ppg, 31.7mpg
Tatum is a career 46/40/84% shooter.  5.5 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 14.8ppg, 30.8mpg

Those are kind of uncanny numbers in their similarity.

Middleton is 28, Tatum is 21.  I can see Tatum making a few All Star teams, perhaps more than Middleton will.

I really don't think tatum is 6'8". 

Watching him the last couple of plays he definitely looks taller then Hayward.   Height-wise he looks to be somewhere between Theis and Kanter - I'm suspecting he has grown to more like 6'10" by this point.  Even in the USA games he looked significantly taller and longer then guys like Middleton. 

Also, while they may be similar players in terms of shooting ability, I think Tatum has far more natural talent as an outright scorer.  I think his quickness, athleticism and ball handling ability make him far more capable in isolation situations where he's able to create his own shot or get to the basket with relative ease and finish over length.  I also think he's got a much wider array of moves in the post and in the midrange area.  By comparison Middleton has always seemed to me more like a catch and shoot guy who can also get his own shot off against weaker defensive players.

Personally, I think people are just expecting WAY too much from a 21 year old guy who is just entering his third year.  This is like the year there Tatum should make major progress, and i expect him to have progressed significantly by the All-Star break and even moreso by the end of the season, but it takes time for young guys to develop. 

Tatum has the benefit of having a plethora of offensive moves - the challenge for him right now is situational decision making.  Knowing when to the the three, when to post up, when to attack the basket, when to go to the midrange game, when to move the ball and look for teammates, etc. 

The talent is all there and is almost unlimited - but when Tatum struggles is when he forces ISO when he should be passing to the open guy, when he forces a drive into an overly crowded paint, when he passes up an open three, etc.  When he makes the right decisions on the court he is really, really good.  That's something that will just come with age and experience in the league.

People also have to understand that this is a Celtics team that is flooded with perimeter scorers - Kemba, Brown, Tatum, Hayward.  These are all guys who, on many other teams, would be #1 or #2 options.   With that many touches to go around, you probably shouldn't expect Tatum to come out and average 20+ this year.  There are going to be games where he goes off, there are going to be games where other guys play big and he doesn't really need to take a ton of shots. 

[nickagneta]

All players were just measured without shoes and Tatum came in officially at 6'8". I think his actual height was 6' 7 5/8" which was rounded up to 6'8".

Unless he grew 2 inches in a week, Tatum is 6' 8".

[Muzzy66]

At this current point in time, these are my thoughts as well. He plays very similar to Anthony, but Anthony was better at simply putting the ball through the hole.

In Carmello's first two seasons in the NBA he shot:
42.6% FG / 32.2% 3PT / 77.7% FT
43.1% FG / 26.6% 3PT / 79.6% FT

Versus Tatum
47.5% FG / 43.4% 3PT / 82.6% FT
45.0% FG / 37.5% 3PT / 85.5% FT

Carmelo had usage rates of 28.5% and 29.2% in his first two seasons versus 19.5% and 22.1% for Tatum in his first two seasons.   

They are very different players in very different situations. 

Melo was pretty much the #1 scoring option on every team he ever played on - he was in a volume shooting role and initially scored most of his points in the paint and from midrange - it took about 5 or 6 years in the league before he really developed into a consistent threat from three.

Tatum came in to the NBA joining teams that have already had elite scorers in Kyrie and Kemba.  When you are a 19-21 year old with a scorer like Kyrie / Kemba on your team, then you are going to be restricted to a #2 option by default, and you're going to have a lower usage rate as a result.  Hence Tatum really shouldn't have been expected to average 20 PPG+ his first two seasons the way Carmello did.   You'd expect that his outright scoring numbers would be lower, but that his percentages should be higher - which is exactly the case.  Same would probably have been true for Melo if he had a Kyrie / Kemba caliber scorer on the Nuggets roster when he entered the league as a rookie.  Likewise if Tatum had gone to a weak team (like the Suns or Kings) instead of to a stacked Celtics team, he probably would be putting up numbers close to what Melo put up in his first two seasons.

Also Tatum, unlike Melo, is less dependent on strength and more dependent on his quickness, length and shooting ability.  Similar results, but different games.

[Muzzy66]

All players were just measured without shoes and Tatum came in officially at 6'8". I think his actual height was 6' 7 5/8" which was rounded up to 6'8".

Unless he grew 2 inches in a week, Tatum is 6' 8".

You are referring to the new measurements though, as that's what we are used to speaking in.  Once you factor in the measurement changes, it doesn't really change my point that Tatum is taller then he was initially believed to be (relative to other guys).

With the new updates Tatum is actually listed as being an inch taller then guys like Hayward, Butler, Tobias Harris and Kawhi (as I suspected he was).  He's actually listed at the same height as Robert Williams and Daniel Theis, and only an inch shorter then Horford, Simmons and Dwight - all of whom are legitimate NBA bigs.   

The relevance to my original point is that I saw Tatum standing next to Williams (previously listed at 6'10") and Theis (previously listed at 6'9") and neither looked noticeably taller then Tatum.  Hence why I was saying Tatum looks to be 6'9" - 6'10".   As it turns out he isn't, those guys are just shorter then listed.  Albeit the overall key takeaway is the same.  That Tatum has legitimate NBA PF/C height. Meaning that if he bulked up a little he may well have the potential to be able to defend 5 positions on the court.  That's one of THE most valuable (and rare) characteristics for an NBA player, and when you combine that with his offensive potential it starts to become clear why Tatum is so hyped in terms of upside. 

I think this is important, because in the past many claimed Tatum did not have the potential to be able to defend NBA bigs due to him being "only" 6'8" and having to frequently defend guys who are 2"-3" taller then him.  At this point we can see that really isn't the case.

[nickagneta]

All players were just measured without shoes and Tatum came in officially at 6'8". I think his actual height was 6' 7 5/8" which was rounded up to 6'8".

Unless he grew 2 inches in a week, Tatum is 6' 8".

You are referring to the new measuements though, which as you said are measured without shoes.

I'm comparing his height to players based on the old measurements.  in the old measurement systems Dwight was listed at 6'10" - 6'11", Gordon hayward was 6'8" and Jaylen Brown was 6'7".

Now Dwight is 6'9", Hayward is 6"7" and Brown is 6'6". 

This makes Tatum two inches caller then Jaylen Brown, 1" taller then Hayward (who has always been thought of as a 6'8" guy) an only 1" shorter then Dwight Howard, who is a big dude. 

Considering Tatum's shoulder width and his wingspan, and the fact he is only 1" shorter then Dwight under new measurements, that would explain why he looks so big on the court.

Actually looking at the updates heights, Tatum is now listed at the same height as Daniel Theis and Robert Williams, who both have legitimate PF/C size.

All this is fine but really doesn't matter. The league measures in bare feet now. Tatum is 6'8".

[Muzzy66]

All players were just measured without shoes and Tatum came in officially at 6'8". I think his actual height was 6' 7 5/8" which was rounded up to 6'8".

Unless he grew 2 inches in a week, Tatum is 6' 8".

You are referring to the new measuements though, which as you said are measured without shoes.

I'm comparing his height to players based on the old measurements.  in the old measurement systems Dwight was listed at 6'10" - 6'11", Gordon hayward was 6'8" and Jaylen Brown was 6'7".

Now Dwight is 6'9", Hayward is 6"7" and Brown is 6'6". 

This makes Tatum two inches caller then Jaylen Brown, 1" taller then Hayward (who has always been thought of as a 6'8" guy) an only 1" shorter then Dwight Howard, who is a big dude. 

Considering Tatum's shoulder width and his wingspan, and the fact he is only 1" shorter then Dwight under new measurements, that would explain why he looks so big on the court.

Actually looking at the updates heights, Tatum is now listed at the same height as Daniel Theis and Robert Williams, who both have legitimate PF/C size.

All this is fine but really doesn't matter. The league measures in bare feet now. Tatum is 6'8".

Apologies - not intending to be shifty with my post edit.  I just edited my post to try to better demonstrate the point I was trying to make, not realising you had already quoted/responded to it.