Author Topic: Dombrowski Fired  (Read 2298 times)

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Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2019, 09:16:33 AM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Ringer article today:

https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2019/9/13/20863433/boston-red-sox-mookie-betts-trade-rumors-dave-dombrowski-firing


Some tidbits:

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Now, it bears mentioning that the Red Sox are worth about $3.7 billion, about $3 billion more than owner John Henry (himself a multibillionaire) and his syndicate paid for the club in December 2001. On the heels of their World Series victory, the Red Sox are fifth in MLB in attendance in 2019, despite playing in the fourth-smallest ballpark in the league, and the Red Sox rake in money not only through leaguewide revenue streams but through their stake in NESN, the local cable channel that carries the club’s games.


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In 2019, the Red Sox have exceeded the threshold by $35.7 million, which comes to a tax bill of $12.6 million for a team that’s paying $18.46 million to not have Pablo Sandoval play for it this year. It’s a pittance, and if winning were the goal, and not a byproduct of profit, the Sox would pay it gleefully. And while they can reset the repeater penalty only by getting under the line—$208 million in 2020—the Red Sox could substantially reduce their expenditures in both salary and tax without taking on a full-blown austerity project.


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A team that wants to challenge for the World Series shouldn’t trade Betts to save a few million dollars—in fact, it would be better off not only keeping Betts but extending him, and trading everyone else on the roster.

Betts, who turns 27 next month, is not only the reigning AL MVP, he combines consistency and excellence the way nobody else in the American League does, with the exception of Mike Trout. In each of his five full MLB seasons, Betts has produced at least 5.9 bWAR and appeared in at least 136 games, and given his special combination of athleticism, intelligence, and versatility—i.e., his whole game isn’t predicated on one physical attribute, like foot speed or bat speed, that could fall off a cliff—he seems like the kind of player who will age quite well.

Quote
Last spring, within a few weeks, Nolan Arenado signed a eight-year, $260 million contract extension with the Rockies, Manny Machado signed a 10-year, $300 million deal with the Padres, and Bryce Harper signed a 13-year, $330 million deal with the Phillies. All three are star players in their mid-20s, and worth every bit of those deals. Betts, in addition to being in a similar age bracket, is substantially better than any of them.

Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2019, 10:19:52 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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The Ringer is stealing my stuff. ;)

Agreed completely.
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Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2019, 10:26:14 AM »

Offline Fan from VT

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The Ringer is stealing my stuff. ;)

Agreed completely.

I thought it was very fair.

In order:
- Disingenuous of organization to care about Money.
- IF you accept the premise that you MUST get below the luxury tax, there are way bette ways than trading Mookie, as they outlined.
- Mookie is 27 and will still be really good by the time the Sox want to go over the tax and compete again.

Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2019, 02:19:53 PM »

Offline gpap

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I guess the question is what type of deal is Mookie looking for in money and years?

PS....Eddie Money passed away. Loved his music!

Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2019, 02:44:24 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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One of the big money guys has to go it seems and maybe more than one.  Big money guys would be Mookie, Price, Sale, and JD.  I feel it is very unlikely that Sale is going anywhere so you can probably take him off the list.  JD may walk but I doubt it so that really leaves Price or Mookie.

Price would be the guy you would most like to trade but you have to find someone who wants him.  I actually think Braves or Dodgers or D-Backs or someone would see value in Price and we could get something (but not much) back for him.

No one wants to trade Mookie but there is the possibility that he just does not want to stay in Boston, at any cost.

Not a lot of good options for the Sox.


Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2019, 02:49:40 PM »

Offline gpap

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One of the big money guys has to go it seems and maybe more than one.  Big money guys would be Mookie, Price, Sale, and JD.  I feel it is very unlikely that Sale is going anywhere so you can probably take him off the list.  JD may walk but I doubt it so that really leaves Price or Mookie.

Price would be the guy you would most like to trade but you have to find someone who wants him.  I actually think Braves or Dodgers or D-Backs or someone would see value in Price and we could get something (but not much) back for him.

No one wants to trade Mookie but there is the possibility that he just does not want to stay in Boston, at any cost.

Not a lot of good options for the Sox.

As for Mookie, they should really determine that in the offseason. Make him a sincere and fair offer, however if he's adamant about hitting free agency, then trade him while you can.

That also saves you close to $30 mil (or whatever it would take either to sign him in arbitration or sign him to an extension.)

I don't think anyone will give up anything of remote value for David Price.

Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2019, 03:20:00 PM »

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I guess, if you're the Sox, who are one of the most massively profitable baseball teams and a perennial contender, what is the point of trading a 27 yo MVP? So you can maybe have 75% of that in the next 4 years?

I just don't get the "Have" to language around the Sox.

Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2019, 03:22:13 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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One of the big money guys has to go it seems and maybe more than one.  Big money guys would be Mookie, Price, Sale, and JD.  I feel it is very unlikely that Sale is going anywhere so you can probably take him off the list.  JD may walk but I doubt it so that really leaves Price or Mookie.

Price would be the guy you would most like to trade but you have to find someone who wants him.  I actually think Braves or Dodgers or D-Backs or someone would see value in Price and we could get something (but not much) back for him.

No one wants to trade Mookie but there is the possibility that he just does not want to stay in Boston, at any cost.

Not a lot of good options for the Sox.

As for Mookie, they should really determine that in the offseason. Make him a sincere and fair offer, however if he's adamant about hitting free agency, then trade him while you can.

That also saves you close to $30 mil (or whatever it would take either to sign him in arbitration or sign him to an extension.)

I don't think anyone will give up anything of remote value for David Price.

I think Price could be a solid National League pitcher in a warm place.  I don't expect all that much in return of course but a team like Atlanta could do well with him.

That is exactly right on Mookie.   We have to figure out where his head is at.  Unfortunately if the tea leaves say he wants out, it is a difficult trade as he has high risk of being a rental.  I am OK with a big contract for Mookie, just not crazy big.

Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2019, 09:05:13 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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Not really a Sox fan, but just want to chime in on the discussion.

The San Francisco Giants have four top 100 prospects. Would three of those (including the best Catcher prospect in Joey Bart), plus Brandon Belt, be enough for Mookie?
2019 CStrong Historical Draft Detroit Pistons.

PG: J. Stockton, D. Harper
SG: J. Havlicek, M. Cooper, P. Maravich
SF: K. Leonard, J. Butler
PF: E. Hayes, L. Nance, Sr., H. Turkoglu
C : A. Mourning, D. Mutombo

Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2019, 10:17:02 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Not really a Sox fan, but just want to chime in on the discussion.

The San Francisco Giants have four top 100 prospects. Would three of those (including the best Catcher prospect in Joey Bart), plus Brandon Belt, be enough for Mookie?

HELL YES! I'd do that if it's clear we aren't keeping Mookie long term.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 10:24:49 PM by Phantom255x »
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Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2019, 10:19:20 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I'd love to keep Betts, but I've had my doubts that the Sox would actually re-sign him, and now the Dombrowski firing + recent quotes by ownership and Betts himself only make me feel more confident he won't be here long term.

I think Betts is worth something between 10/330M to 11/360M. Not Trout money, but still more than Harper + Machado.

I have serious doubts the Sox pay him that. And judging by the recent reports/quotes and everything it seems that’ll happen.

Might even decide to deal him this winter instead of paying him the 25M+ in arbitration.

The Sox may try to go into this winter slashing payroll and getting under the luxury tax (208M payroll in 2020) in whatever way they can. Not saying I endorse it, but it looks increasingly likely that that's now the plan. Even if they aren't able to squeeze under, they'll set themselves up well to go under in 2021.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2019, 09:54:37 AM »

Offline JBcat

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IMO with or without Mookie the Sox’s performance for the foreseeable future comes down to our starting pitching which is a scary thought.  For better or worse we are probably stuck with Sale, Price, and Eovaldi unless we eat a significant portion of their contracts in a trade, but what’s the point of that if we are looking to get their contracts off the books.  All 3 have a hard time staying healthy for an entire season, and are in their 30’s.

My idea to remedy this, and lessen the burden on all 3 is to get not 1 but 2 starting pitchers which are hopefully an improvement over Porcello.  Maybe one of the minor leaguers like Houck surprises us, and becomes one of those guys. 

By having 2 additional SPs ready to step in I’d move Eovaldi to a swing role between the bullpen and starter when needed, or at times go with a 6 man rotation if everyone happens to be healthy during the dog days of the season.  (Next year will be the first season with a 26 man roster so it shouldn’t hurt our bullpen if we did this at various times.)

This would lessen the need for the likes of Johnson, Velasquez, Weber ect stepping into the rotation which really hurt us this season.

I haven’t even mentioned Erod yet.  He has quietly turned into our most dependable starter who really wasn’t a part of last year’s post season success.   A big decision will need to be made within the next year or 2 if we extend him, and at what cost.

I do like our starting pitchers on the lower levels of the farm Mata, Song, Groome that I hope we hold onto for the future, and hopefully at least 1 sticks.

Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2019, 07:32:14 PM »

Offline gpap

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IMO with or without Mookie the Sox’s performance for the foreseeable future comes down to our starting pitching which is a scary thought.  For better or worse we are probably stuck with Sale, Price, and Eovaldi unless we eat a significant portion of their contracts in a trade, but what’s the point of that if we are looking to get their contracts off the books.  All 3 have a hard time staying healthy for an entire season, and are in their 30’s.

My idea to remedy this, and lessen the burden on all 3 is to get not 1 but 2 starting pitchers which are hopefully an improvement over Porcello.  Maybe one of the minor leaguers like Houck surprises us, and becomes one of those guys. 

By having 2 additional SPs ready to step in I’d move Eovaldi to a swing role between the bullpen and starter when needed, or at times go with a 6 man rotation if everyone happens to be healthy during the dog days of the season.  (Next year will be the first season with a 26 man roster so it shouldn’t hurt our bullpen if we did this at various times.)

This would lessen the need for the likes of Johnson, Velasquez, Weber ect stepping into the rotation which really hurt us this season.

I haven’t even mentioned Erod yet.  He has quietly turned into our most dependable starter who really wasn’t a part of last year’s post season success.   A big decision will need to be made within the next year or 2 if we extend him, and at what cost.

I do like our starting pitchers on the lower levels of the farm Mata, Song, Groome that I hope we hold onto for the future, and hopefully at least 1 sticks.

Totally agree.

As much as I’d like to keep Mookie, it all begins and ends with starting pitching and our pitching sucked this year.

I would’ve liked loved seeing the Sox signing Gerrit Cole, but I doubt Henry allows the team to offer him the money he’s going to want.

However if they can sign say a Jake Odorizzi or Zack Wheeler, it would boost the rotation. I agree with moving Eovaldi to the bullpen and also as a 6th starter if need be. I also agree with calling all up an arm from Pawtucket to start games. Time to start integrating our minor league arms into our rotation instead starting scrubs like Velasquez and Johnson.

Now if Sale’s elbow needs any kind of surgery, they’ll need to sign another ace like Cole or Bumgarner.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 07:38:39 PM by gpap »

Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #43 on: September 14, 2019, 07:40:21 PM »

Offline gpap

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Not really a Sox fan, but just want to chime in on the discussion.

The San Francisco Giants have four top 100 prospects. Would three of those (including the best Catcher prospect in Joey Bart), plus Brandon Belt, be enough for Mookie?

I’m actually going to see the Sox play the Giants on Tuesday.

 

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