Author Topic: Dombrowski Fired  (Read 5171 times)

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Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2019, 04:07:15 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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So I wonder, does this mean Dombrowski wants to trade Mookie but ownership doesn't?  Or the other way around?  Or not something this simple?

I actually am surprised.  The Sox will be fine though.

I say sign Mookie, trade Price, hope Martinez stays, and hope like he11 Sale is OK.

Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2019, 04:27:24 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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I'm guessing Alex Cora was furious that he stood pat at the DL (and got... Cashner) and complained upstairs..

I think the season was lost the moment the team decided to come back with a downgraded roster. Letting Kelly and Kimbrel go, without upgrading elsewhere, sunk the team.

The entire pitching staff needs to look in the mirror as well.
neither one of those pitchers have a had a season that would have turned it around for the sox. Kimbrel has an ERA of 5.68. Kelly has an ERA of 4.47.

the starting pitching tanked. who expect price, sale, porcello to collectively suck? the bull pen has been bad, but kimbrel and kelly were not going to save it.

their hitting is fine. but the starters completely tanked for whatever reason. SoSH has of course overanalyzed all this, but the starting rotation for the Sox has an ERA of over one entire run per game worse when compared to last season. and yes, the bullpen stunk as well.
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Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2019, 04:35:01 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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So I wonder, does this mean Dombrowski wants to trade Mookie but ownership doesn't?  Or the other way around?  Or not something this simple?

I actually am surprised.  The Sox will be fine though.

I say sign Mookie, trade Price, hope Martinez stays, and hope like he11 Sale is OK.


It may be as simple as dombrowski is a guy to empty your asset chest to build a title contender and sucks at or isnt willing to rebuild a farm system. It may be as simple as that.

Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2019, 05:26:15 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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So I wonder, does this mean Dombrowski wants to trade Mookie but ownership doesn't?  Or the other way around?  Or not something this simple?

I actually am surprised.  The Sox will be fine though.

I say sign Mookie, trade Price, hope Martinez stays, and hope like he11 Sale is OK.


It may be as simple as dombrowski is a guy to empty your asset chest to build a title contender and sucks at or isnt willing to rebuild a farm system. It may be as simple as that.
i agree. dombrowski delivered a world series, thank you very much. he makes great trades. but at rebuilding, and especially rebuilding a depleted farm system, and keeping salaries down....well those are not his strengths.

it does appear that the sox have opted to rebuild. if so, they made a good choice. but it is still a shocker. i can't help but think something else took place between dombrowski and ownership.

oh, and Shaughnessy saw this coming:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2019/08/06/after-this-season-something-has-give-with-red-sox/0zHeHWblAak4uxMtPjfWwO/story.html


"Dombrowski did exactly what he was hired to do when the Sox brought him on board in the summer of 2015. He traded prospects for veteran talent. He signed big name free agents. He threw around contract extensions like fun-sized Halloween candies. He ignored draft and development. And he ignored a lot of the people who worked at Fenway Park.

The Sox won every year until this year. And each season, Dombrowski became more isolated inside the walls of Fenway. He holed up with his buddies Frank Wren and Tony La Russa. He insisted that Sam Kennedy have zero input on all baseball decisions and never clicked with the new CEO. Dombrowski was not particularly close to the people in baseball ops. Or Tom Werner.

In the end, Dombrowski did not have much support from Alex Cora. No one in a Sox uniform was happy last week in Anaheim when Dombrowski failed to bring major league arms to California after a 15-inning win on a Friday night at the Big A. The next night, Cora was forced to call on weary, worn-out Ryan Brasier in relief of a critical game. Brasier blew a 4-3 lead, giving up six runs in the eighth inning. It was front office malpractice. Things were coming to a head.

When the team came home from the coast to play the Twins and Yankees, Dombrowski wanted clarity on his situation, and that clarity came after the Sox 10-5 loss to the Yankees late Sunday night."
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Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2019, 05:31:02 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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So I wonder, does this mean Dombrowski wants to trade Mookie but ownership doesn't?  Or the other way around?  Or not something this simple?

I actually am surprised.  The Sox will be fine though.

I say sign Mookie, trade Price, hope Martinez stays, and hope like he11 Sale is OK.


It may be as simple as dombrowski is a guy to empty your asset chest to build a title contender and sucks at or isnt willing to rebuild a farm system. It may be as simple as that.
i agree. dombrowski delivered a world series, thank you very much. he makes great trades. but at rebuilding, and especially rebuilding a depleted farm system, and keeping salaries down....well those are not his strengths.

it does appear that the sox have opted to rebuild. if so, they made a good choice. but it is still a shocker. i can't help but think something else took place between dombrowski and ownership.

oh, and Shaughnessy saw this coming:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2019/08/06/after-this-season-something-has-give-with-red-sox/0zHeHWblAak4uxMtPjfWwO/story.html

Gee.... I wonder where Shaughnessy was getting his information.


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Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2019, 08:03:36 PM »

Offline gpap

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I dont think this signals a rebuild as much as retooling the team.

Fortunately, the Sox have some money coming off the books so they should be able to add another starter and a couple bullpen arms.

The new GM probably does however also prioritize building up the farm system with more of a longer term view than Dombrowski did.

The Sox should still remain competitive, however.

As for Mookie, they may want to explore trading him as he seems determined to hit free agency.

If hes prioritizing his own needs then the team should do the same.


Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2019, 08:40:22 PM »

Online Roy H.

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it does appear that the sox have opted to rebuild. if so, they made a good choice

I'm not sure that it's a good choice.  They're one year removed from a historically strong season.  I'm not of the opinion that it's time to blow it up.

Mookie is a quarter-step below Mike Trout.  Why on earth are we talking about trading him? 

The Sox are worth $3.2 billion, and they'd bring more than that on the open market.    Henry bought the team for $380 million.  The team brought in $516 million in revenue last season alone, and made over $80 million in profit.  They also own 80% of NESN, which is a cash cow.  Despite that, only once since 1990 has the team led MLB in spending.  Yet, that's all we hear about.

Quote
If hes prioritizing his own needs then the team should do the same.

Mookie should be prioritizing his own needs.  The Sox should pay him what he's worth on the market.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 08:47:41 PM by Roy H. »
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Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2019, 08:56:28 PM »

Offline moiso

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it does appear that the sox have opted to rebuild. if so, they made a good choice

I'm not sure that it's a good choice.  They're one year removed from a historically strong season.  I'm not of the opinion that it's time to blow it up.

Mookie is a quarter-step below Mike Trout.  Why on earth are we talking about trading him? 

The Sox are worth $3.2 billion, and they'd bring more than that on the open market.    Henry bought the team for $380 million.  The team brought in $516 million in revenue last season alone, and made over $80 million in profit.  They also own 80% of NESN, which is a cash cow.  Despite that, only once since 1990 has the team led MLB in spending.  Yet, that's all we hear about.

Quote
If hes prioritizing his own needs then the team should do the same.

Mookie should be prioritizing his own needs.  The Sox should pay him what he's worth on the market.
Like Marcus Smart is a quarter step behind Kemba Walker?  I think the difference is a lot greater than a quarter step unless you only look at last season.  If the Sox think its going to take a quarter step less money than Trout makes to resign Mookie they should look to trade him.

Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2019, 09:43:01 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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The Sox are worth $3.2 billion, and they'd bring more than that on the open market.    Henry bought the team for $380 million.  The team brought in $516 million in revenue last season alone, and made over $80 million in profit.  They also own 80% of NESN, which is a cash cow.  Despite that, only once since 1990 has the team led MLB in spending.  Yet, that's all we hear about.
The issue is that the MLB owners have for the most part agreed to treat the luxury tax as a hard cap.

I really think there is a some behind the scenes agreement in place based on team behavior.

Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2019, 10:02:25 AM »

Offline gpap

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Quote
it does appear that the sox have opted to rebuild. if so, they made a good choice

I'm not sure that it's a good choice.  They're one year removed from a historically strong season.  I'm not of the opinion that it's time to blow it up.

Mookie is a quarter-step below Mike Trout.  Why on earth are we talking about trading him? 

The Sox are worth $3.2 billion, and they'd bring more than that on the open market.    Henry bought the team for $380 million.  The team brought in $516 million in revenue last season alone, and made over $80 million in profit.  They also own 80% of NESN, which is a cash cow.  Despite that, only once since 1990 has the team led MLB in spending.  Yet, that's all we hear about.

Quote
If hes prioritizing his own needs then the team should do the same.

Mookie should be prioritizing his own needs.  The Sox should pay him what he's worth on the market.


In my opinion, if I had to choose, I'd prioritize pitching over 10 years/$300 million (if not more) of Mookie Betts. The Sox pitching right now is putrid and although I like Mookie as much as the next guy, he isn't exactly lighting the world on fire right now. Great player, but worthy of north of $300 million? I personally don't think so. It's not my money, but if Sox are going to start placing financial constraints in their payroll,  then that's the direction I'd go.

Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2019, 10:09:21 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Quote
it does appear that the sox have opted to rebuild. if so, they made a good choice

I'm not sure that it's a good choice.  They're one year removed from a historically strong season.  I'm not of the opinion that it's time to blow it up.

Mookie is a quarter-step below Mike Trout.  Why on earth are we talking about trading him? 

The Sox are worth $3.2 billion, and they'd bring more than that on the open market.    Henry bought the team for $380 million.  The team brought in $516 million in revenue last season alone, and made over $80 million in profit.  They also own 80% of NESN, which is a cash cow.  Despite that, only once since 1990 has the team led MLB in spending.  Yet, that's all we hear about.

Quote
If hes prioritizing his own needs then the team should do the same.

Mookie should be prioritizing his own needs.  The Sox should pay him what he's worth on the market.
good points roy and you may be correct. a few items to consider, the sox have something like $60 million/year tied up in two pitchers, both of whom are injured a lot (price and sale). contract extensions/resignings are looming for mookie and xander and JD. the sox are already bumping the salary cap.

something needs to be done unless the sox powers-that-be decide the current roster is fine going forward. i doubt that given the pitching, starting and bullpen, this season.

maybe they will try to retool on the fly. possible. i don't think a full teardown is in order. perhaps a modest rebuild? a punto trade of sale/price?

the next step will be to get a new GM. i think any of these folks would be great to have onboard the Sox:

Andrew Friedman, LAD 
Chaim Bloom, tampa bay
Erik Neander, tampa bay
Kim Ng, baseball ops
or....maybe they think Romero is the guy.


« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 10:17:49 AM by hwangjini_1 »
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2019, 10:52:50 AM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Quote
it does appear that the sox have opted to rebuild. if so, they made a good choice

I'm not sure that it's a good choice.  They're one year removed from a historically strong season.  I'm not of the opinion that it's time to blow it up.

Mookie is a quarter-step below Mike Trout.  Why on earth are we talking about trading him? 

The Sox are worth $3.2 billion, and they'd bring more than that on the open market.    Henry bought the team for $380 million.  The team brought in $516 million in revenue last season alone, and made over $80 million in profit.  They also own 80% of NESN, which is a cash cow.  Despite that, only once since 1990 has the team led MLB in spending.  Yet, that's all we hear about.

Quote
If hes prioritizing his own needs then the team should do the same.

Mookie should be prioritizing his own needs.  The Sox should pay him what he's worth on the market.


In my opinion, if I had to choose, I'd prioritize pitching over 10 years/$300 million (if not more) of Mookie Betts. The Sox pitching right now is putrid and although I like Mookie as much as the next guy, he isn't exactly lighting the world on fire right now. Great player, but worthy of north of $300 million? I personally don't think so. It's not my money, but if Sox are going to start placing financial constraints in their payroll,  then that's the direction I'd go.

The problem with baseball is how often does "prioritizing pitching" actually work out? It sure seems like beyond 1 or 2 guys, teams to well by homegrown talent and/or going by "committee" and catching lightning in a bottle season to season. Dombrowski is NOT the guy to grow homegrown pitching; he's the guy who can get you Sale and Price. I do not think the Sox really need to go out and pay someone for 8 years of pitching for 2 good years of pitching. Position players are much more reliable; Mookie is likely a perennial all-star /fringe MVP candidate the next 8 years. So if you don't want a full rebuild, you keep Betts, Boegarts, Benitendi, Devers; you try to keep Martinez but as a DH, less aggressively if push comes to shove; then you fill in a few years with Eovaldi type flyers in addition to the guys you are obligated to and try to re-stock the farm system; even if you don't add a new Big Name pitcher in the next 2-3 years, in those 2-3 years you might get lucky with a couple low level FAs and make some playoff noise, and all those keepers I mentioned will still be in their prime and you can then re-hire a Dombrowski type to empty your re-stocked farm system to sell out around that core.

Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2019, 11:23:56 AM »

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it does appear that the sox have opted to rebuild. if so, they made a good choice

I'm not sure that it's a good choice.  They're one year removed from a historically strong season.  I'm not of the opinion that it's time to blow it up.

Mookie is a quarter-step below Mike Trout.  Why on earth are we talking about trading him? 

The Sox are worth $3.2 billion, and they'd bring more than that on the open market.    Henry bought the team for $380 million.  The team brought in $516 million in revenue last season alone, and made over $80 million in profit.  They also own 80% of NESN, which is a cash cow.  Despite that, only once since 1990 has the team led MLB in spending.  Yet, that's all we hear about.

Quote
If hes prioritizing his own needs then the team should do the same.

Mookie should be prioritizing his own needs.  The Sox should pay him what he's worth on the market.


In my opinion, if I had to choose, I'd prioritize pitching over 10 years/$300 million (if not more) of Mookie Betts. The Sox pitching right now is putrid and although I like Mookie as much as the next guy, he isn't exactly lighting the world on fire right now. Great player, but worthy of north of $300 million? I personally don't think so. It's not my money, but if Sox are going to start placing financial constraints in their payroll,  then that's the direction I'd go.

The Sox are a great hitting, poor pitching team, mostly due to under-performing starting pitchers.

I don't think the answer to that problem is to substantially weaken the hitting and defense.  The team should play to its strengths while hoping the pitching staff plays like its capable of.  If you start trading off guys like Mookie, you're just left with a less expensive, worse team.
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Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2019, 11:34:49 AM »

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Quote
it does appear that the sox have opted to rebuild. if so, they made a good choice

I'm not sure that it's a good choice.  They're one year removed from a historically strong season.  I'm not of the opinion that it's time to blow it up.

Mookie is a quarter-step below Mike Trout.  Why on earth are we talking about trading him? 

The Sox are worth $3.2 billion, and they'd bring more than that on the open market.    Henry bought the team for $380 million.  The team brought in $516 million in revenue last season alone, and made over $80 million in profit.  They also own 80% of NESN, which is a cash cow.  Despite that, only once since 1990 has the team led MLB in spending.  Yet, that's all we hear about.

Quote
If hes prioritizing his own needs then the team should do the same.

Mookie should be prioritizing his own needs.  The Sox should pay him what he's worth on the market.


In my opinion, if I had to choose, I'd prioritize pitching over 10 years/$300 million (if not more) of Mookie Betts. The Sox pitching right now is putrid and although I like Mookie as much as the next guy, he isn't exactly lighting the world on fire right now. Great player, but worthy of north of $300 million? I personally don't think so. It's not my money, but if Sox are going to start placing financial constraints in their payroll,  then that's the direction I'd go.

The Sox are a great hitting, poor pitching team, mostly due to under-performing starting pitchers.

I don't think the answer to that problem is to substantially weaken the hitting and defense.  The team should play to its strengths while hoping the pitching staff plays like its capable of.  If you start trading off guys like Mookie, you're just left with a less expensive, worse team.

I tend to agree. Probably the best thing is to keep your hitting elite and stop paying 300 million for pitchers in their 30s; instead, if money is actually the issue, augment that hitting with homegrown pitchers and/or season by season lottery ticker fliers, AND resist the urge to subsequently pay for those random career years after they've happened.

Re: Dombrowski Fired
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2019, 11:58:50 AM »

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