Patriots 2019 Season

[Moranis]

I am all for extracting value out of players and/or starting a new era when it is time, but Brady plays as long as he wants in a Patriots uniform...period. Some of the comments here are blasphemous. If we need to endure a couple of mediocre seasons before Brady finally calls it quits, then we'll survive. It's not like we have this incredible influx of young talent that is just bursting at the seams and it's all Brady's fault.

When you have a 42 year old qb, you don't give him a shaky offensive line and questionable receivers. We lost all of our big threats a couple of games into the season. I am perfectly willing to re-group and try again next year. If the organization isn't satisfied with Stidham, then draft another qb, but Brady shouldn't be going anywhere.

There is a reason players don't play at 42.  They just aren't very good.  It is fine if the Patriots don't want to win and are fine being a crappy team (and let's be clear they aren't far away from the Giants and Eli type situation), but if the Patriots want to win, they have to move on from Brady.  He is done.  He might have a game or two of elite play left in him, but he can't do it over the course of a season or even a playoff run any more.

[Fafnir]

I guess a lot can happen in 4 or 5 weeks, and the situation changed drastically with Garapalo.

Isn't it clear that Brady/Kraft forced Belicheck to trade Garapalo when he didn't want to?

I think the power struggle was ongoing till the very last second.

[footey]

I guess a lot can happen in 4 or 5 weeks, and the situation changed drastically with Garapalo.

Isn't it clear that Brady/Kraft forced Belicheck to trade Garapalo when he didn't want to?

I think the power struggle was ongoing till the very last second.

Yes, that is reportedly what happened.

[Roy H.]

I am all for extracting value out of players and/or starting a new era when it is time, but Brady plays as long as he wants in a Patriots uniform...period. Some of the comments here are blasphemous. If we need to endure a couple of mediocre seasons before Brady finally calls it quits, then we'll survive. It's not like we have this incredible influx of young talent that is just bursting at the seams and it's all Brady's fault.

When you have a 42 year old qb, you don't give him a shaky offensive line and questionable receivers. We lost all of our big threats a couple of games into the season. I am perfectly willing to re-group and try again next year. If the organization isn't satisfied with Stidham, then draft another qb, but Brady shouldn't be going anywhere.

There is a reason players don't play at 42.  They just aren't very good.  It is fine if the Patriots don't want to win and are fine being a crappy team (and let's be clear they aren't far away from the Giants and Eli type situation), but if the Patriots want to win, they have to move on from Brady.  He is done.  He might have a game or two of elite play left in him, but he can't do it over the course of a season or even a playoff run any more.

I don’t think he’s “done”, but I think he’s in the bottom half of starting QBs.

[Moranis]

I am all for extracting value out of players and/or starting a new era when it is time, but Brady plays as long as he wants in a Patriots uniform...period. Some of the comments here are blasphemous. If we need to endure a couple of mediocre seasons before Brady finally calls it quits, then we'll survive. It's not like we have this incredible influx of young talent that is just bursting at the seams and it's all Brady's fault.

When you have a 42 year old qb, you don't give him a shaky offensive line and questionable receivers. We lost all of our big threats a couple of games into the season. I am perfectly willing to re-group and try again next year. If the organization isn't satisfied with Stidham, then draft another qb, but Brady shouldn't be going anywhere.

There is a reason players don't play at 42.  They just aren't very good.  It is fine if the Patriots don't want to win and are fine being a crappy team (and let's be clear they aren't far away from the Giants and Eli type situation), but if the Patriots want to win, they have to move on from Brady.  He is done.  He might have a game or two of elite play left in him, but he can't do it over the course of a season or even a playoff run any more.

I don’t think he’s “done”, but I think he’s in the bottom half of starting QBs.

I think that makes him "done".  You can't win with a QB that is in the bottom half and only going to get worse. 

You give the Patriots a tougher schedule and I'm not sure they make the playoffs this year as the only playoff teams they beat were the Bills (twice) and the Eagles (who only made it by default) and they won those games by scoring 16, 17, and 24 points.  The Bills are a bottom 10 offense and the Eagles are a middle of the road one.  The Patriots played so many games against the dregs of the league, I think you give them a reasonably difficult schedule instead of one of the easiest ones and they are an 8 or 9 win team. 

[PhoSita]

I don't think it's true that Brady "isn't very good."

Give him time to throw and solid receiving options, he'll make plays.  He can be relied on to drive you down the field.  If he trusts his receiving options and isn't forcing it to much too one guy (Edelman), he won't throw many picks.


Put him behind a piecemeal offensive line and give him only one or two guys he trusts to catch his passes and he's not going to look great.


Brady can't elevate a team anymore, but he's still good enough not to drag down an otherwise elite team.



"Done" to me is Peyton Manning in his last season with the Broncos.  Even though they won a title, he had a noodle arm and only a historically amazing defense and a lot of luck got them to a title.  Brady has more juice at this point than Peyton did back then.

[Moranis]

I don't think it's true that Brady "isn't very good."

Give him time to throw and solid receiving options, he'll make plays.  He can be relied on to drive you down the field.  If he trusts his receiving options and isn't forcing it to much too one guy (Edelman), he won't throw many picks.


Put him behind a piecemeal offensive line and give him only one or two guys he trusts to catch his passes and he's not going to look great.


Brady can't elevate a team anymore, but he's still good enough not to drag down an otherwise elite team.



"Done" to me is Peyton Manning in his last season with the Broncos.  Even though they won a title, he had a noodle arm and only a historically amazing defense and a lot of luck got them to a title.  Brady has more juice at this point than Peyton did back then.

He has a bit more than Manning did that season, but yesterday he wouldn't throw the ball downfield.  He was way off on several passes, some even to open guys.  I just don't think he has it anymore.  He could probably play the game manager role, but that requires a commitment to the run, something New England hasn't done in a decade.  And if you are going the game manager route, why not just move on. 

[nickagneta]

I don't think it's true that Brady "isn't very good."

Give him time to throw and solid receiving options, he'll make plays.  He can be relied on to drive you down the field.  If he trusts his receiving options and isn't forcing it to much too one guy (Edelman), he won't throw many picks.


Put him behind a piecemeal offensive line and give him only one or two guys he trusts to catch his passes and he's not going to look great.


Brady can't elevate a team anymore, but he's still good enough not to drag down an otherwise elite team.



"Done" to me is Peyton Manning in his last season with the Broncos.  Even though they won a title, he had a noodle arm and only a historically amazing defense and a lot of luck got them to a title.  Brady has more juice at this point than Peyton did back then.

He has a bit more than Manning did that season, but yesterday he wouldn't throw the ball downfield.  He was way off on several passes, some even to open guys.  I just don't think he has it anymore.  He could probably play the game manager role, but that requires a commitment to the run, something New England hasn't done in a decade.  And if you are going the game manager route, why not just move on.

There is the very real possibility that yesterday's performance was due more to Brady being hurt than Brady declining. He was on and off the injury report for the last part of the year with an elbow issue.

Brady was still top 10 in the league in passing yards, attempts, completions and interception percentage.

And that's all while leading the league in throw aways which helped to make sure he was sacked as little as any QB in the league given the amount of drop backs he had. And he did this because and in spite of a patchwork, atrocious offensive line.

Then add in the fact the Patriots led the league in drop passes and the context of Brady's season starts to come into better focus, especially given the lack of quality receiving targets other than Edelman and White(who did not have a good year).

Rebuild that offensive line, get a half decent receiving TE, let Harry develop a year with Brady and add another quality WR and Brady could easily be a top 10 QB statistically again next year.

[PhoSita]

I don't think it's true that Brady "isn't very good."

Give him time to throw and solid receiving options, he'll make plays.  He can be relied on to drive you down the field.  If he trusts his receiving options and isn't forcing it to much too one guy (Edelman), he won't throw many picks.


Put him behind a piecemeal offensive line and give him only one or two guys he trusts to catch his passes and he's not going to look great.


Brady can't elevate a team anymore, but he's still good enough not to drag down an otherwise elite team.



"Done" to me is Peyton Manning in his last season with the Broncos.  Even though they won a title, he had a noodle arm and only a historically amazing defense and a lot of luck got them to a title.  Brady has more juice at this point than Peyton did back then.

He has a bit more than Manning did that season, but yesterday he wouldn't throw the ball downfield.  He was way off on several passes, some even to open guys.  I just don't think he has it anymore.  He could probably play the game manager role, but that requires a commitment to the run, something New England hasn't done in a decade.  And if you are going the game manager route, why not just move on.

I think he's hurt.

Even so, I've already said that I think it could make sense for both sides to move on.

Brady should go to a team that is just a competent QB away from being a SB contender.

The Pats need a guy who can make all the basic throws while also having the ability to pick up yards or even TDs on the ground when the defense leaves an opening.



My perspective on the Patriots' receiving core is not that it is terribly lacking in quality options, except at TE.  The lack of good pass catching TEs is a big issue that I hope they address this offseason.

The receiving core is not that bad.  Meyers, Harry, and Dorsett have all shown that they can catch balls and make plays.  James White has been strangely underutilized this season.  Burkhead can catch passes as well.


The issue is rather that Brady doesn't trust hardly any of these guys other than Edelman.  This results in Brady over-relying on Edelman, especially when he has less time to throw because the offensive line is a mess.


If there's one complaint / weakness I would mention about Brady over the last 10+ years, it's that he has a tendency to lean too much on guys that he trusts (Gronk and Edelman especially) when things get tough.  But Brady is the GOAT, irrespective of whatever flaws he has.

[Vermont Green]

I sat in my house and watch every play of the game against Miami, as I am sure many others did.  The pass for the pick-6 was a bad pass and was fully on Brady.  He overthrew on a couple of others but overall, he was not bad, in fact I thought he was pretty good.  There were several drops.  The O-line was decent but not great.

The reason that we lost was because the defense could not stop Fitzpatrick, most importantly, on their last drive.  I think this was a result of him playing out of his mind, a predictable scheme, a couple of key corners being injured, but mostly simply not being able to make the big play to get the stop.

The Pick-6 was an impactful play.  We gifted them 6 points but overall, Brady was not that bad.  Fitzpatrick was just better.  He made every read (albeit our scheme was predictable) and put every pass in there.  It was a great game for him.  If we let Tannehill play that well, we are going to have trouble with the Titans too.

[gouki88]

I don't think it's true that Brady "isn't very good."

Give him time to throw and solid receiving options, he'll make plays.  He can be relied on to drive you down the field.  If he trusts his receiving options and isn't forcing it to much too one guy (Edelman), he won't throw many picks.


Put him behind a piecemeal offensive line and give him only one or two guys he trusts to catch his passes and he's not going to look great.


Brady can't elevate a team anymore, but he's still good enough not to drag down an otherwise elite team.



"Done" to me is Peyton Manning in his last season with the Broncos.  Even though they won a title, he had a noodle arm and only a historically amazing defense and a lot of luck got them to a title.  Brady has more juice at this point than Peyton did back then.

He has a bit more than Manning did that season, but yesterday he wouldn't throw the ball downfield.  He was way off on several passes, some even to open guys.  I just don't think he has it anymore.  He could probably play the game manager role, but that requires a commitment to the run, something New England hasn't done in a decade.  And if you are going the game manager route, why not just move on.

There is the very real possibility that yesterday's performance was due more to Brady being hurt than Brady declining. He was on and off the injury report for the last part of the year with an elbow issue.

Brady was still top 10 in the league in passing yards, attempts, completions and interception percentage.

And that's all while leading the league in throw aways which helped to make sure he was sacked as little as any QB in the league given the amount of drop backs he had. And he did this because and in spite of a patchwork, atrocious offensive line.

Then add in the fact the Patriots led the league in drop passes and the context of Brady's season starts to come into better focus, especially given the lack of quality receiving targets other than Edelman and White(who did not have a good year).

Rebuild that offensive line, get a half decent receiving TE, let Harry develop a year with Brady and add another quality WR and Brady could easily be a top 10 QB statistically again next year.

That's a pretty good rationalisation of it, I gotta say. I had no idea about some of those stats, like the dropped passes one. I agree that Brady is quite obviously hurting, and with that as the case I'm not sure we can win it all this year. Gotta keep reminding myself to never count out Brady and Bill though.

Tennessee could certainly give us problems - Henry is an absolute machine. Wonder if being sent home early would be the worst thing. Give us a bit longer rest, get Brady in peak condition for next year, get our receiving group healthy, and try and bring in some other weapons. Jalen Reagor would be an interesting target for my mind.

Or, Brady could move on. That would absolutely suck, as I want him to retire in New England. However, I still think he has a bit left in the tank

[Moranis]

I don't think it's true that Brady "isn't very good."

Give him time to throw and solid receiving options, he'll make plays.  He can be relied on to drive you down the field.  If he trusts his receiving options and isn't forcing it to much too one guy (Edelman), he won't throw many picks.


Put him behind a piecemeal offensive line and give him only one or two guys he trusts to catch his passes and he's not going to look great.


Brady can't elevate a team anymore, but he's still good enough not to drag down an otherwise elite team.



"Done" to me is Peyton Manning in his last season with the Broncos.  Even though they won a title, he had a noodle arm and only a historically amazing defense and a lot of luck got them to a title.  Brady has more juice at this point than Peyton did back then.

He has a bit more than Manning did that season, but yesterday he wouldn't throw the ball downfield.  He was way off on several passes, some even to open guys.  I just don't think he has it anymore.  He could probably play the game manager role, but that requires a commitment to the run, something New England hasn't done in a decade.  And if you are going the game manager route, why not just move on.

There is the very real possibility that yesterday's performance was due more to Brady being hurt than Brady declining. He was on and off the injury report for the last part of the year with an elbow issue.

Brady was still top 10 in the league in passing yards, attempts, completions and interception percentage.

And that's all while leading the league in throw aways which helped to make sure he was sacked as little as any QB in the league given the amount of drop backs he had. And he did this because and in spite of a patchwork, atrocious offensive line.

Then add in the fact the Patriots led the league in drop passes and the context of Brady's season starts to come into better focus, especially given the lack of quality receiving targets other than Edelman and White(who did not have a good year).

Rebuild that offensive line, get a half decent receiving TE, let Harry develop a year with Brady and add another quality WR and Brady could easily be a top 10 QB statistically again next year.

That's a pretty good rationalisation of it, I gotta say. I had no idea about some of those stats, like the dropped passes one. I agree that Brady is quite obviously hurting, and with that as the case I'm not sure we can win it all this year. Gotta keep reminding myself to never count out Brady and Bill though.

Tennessee could certainly give us problems - Henry is an absolute machine. Wonder if being sent home early would be the worst thing. Give us a bit longer rest, get Brady in peak condition for next year, get our receiving group healthy, and try and bring in some other weapons. Jalen Reagor would be an interesting target for my mind.

Or, Brady could move on. That would absolutely suck, as I want him to retire in New England. However, I still think he has a bit left in the tank

He is 42.  It is over.  If they beat the Titans, they won't realistically get by the Chiefs, but let's just say Mahomes is injured early in the game and they get by the Chiefs, they aren't winning in Baltimore so they have to hope the Ravens lose and they get a better matchup, like say the Bills go on a miracle run.  They then would have to beat one of the juggernauts in the NFC.  It isn't happening and given Brady is 42 and has looked awful much of the year, the run is over.  They are done being a contender with Brady under center.  Father time has arrived and he is undefeated.

[gouki88]

I don't think it's true that Brady "isn't very good."

Give him time to throw and solid receiving options, he'll make plays.  He can be relied on to drive you down the field.  If he trusts his receiving options and isn't forcing it to much too one guy (Edelman), he won't throw many picks.


Put him behind a piecemeal offensive line and give him only one or two guys he trusts to catch his passes and he's not going to look great.


Brady can't elevate a team anymore, but he's still good enough not to drag down an otherwise elite team.



"Done" to me is Peyton Manning in his last season with the Broncos.  Even though they won a title, he had a noodle arm and only a historically amazing defense and a lot of luck got them to a title.  Brady has more juice at this point than Peyton did back then.

He has a bit more than Manning did that season, but yesterday he wouldn't throw the ball downfield.  He was way off on several passes, some even to open guys.  I just don't think he has it anymore.  He could probably play the game manager role, but that requires a commitment to the run, something New England hasn't done in a decade.  And if you are going the game manager route, why not just move on.

There is the very real possibility that yesterday's performance was due more to Brady being hurt than Brady declining. He was on and off the injury report for the last part of the year with an elbow issue.

Brady was still top 10 in the league in passing yards, attempts, completions and interception percentage.

And that's all while leading the league in throw aways which helped to make sure he was sacked as little as any QB in the league given the amount of drop backs he had. And he did this because and in spite of a patchwork, atrocious offensive line.

Then add in the fact the Patriots led the league in drop passes and the context of Brady's season starts to come into better focus, especially given the lack of quality receiving targets other than Edelman and White(who did not have a good year).

Rebuild that offensive line, get a half decent receiving TE, let Harry develop a year with Brady and add another quality WR and Brady could easily be a top 10 QB statistically again next year.

That's a pretty good rationalisation of it, I gotta say. I had no idea about some of those stats, like the dropped passes one. I agree that Brady is quite obviously hurting, and with that as the case I'm not sure we can win it all this year. Gotta keep reminding myself to never count out Brady and Bill though.

Tennessee could certainly give us problems - Henry is an absolute machine. Wonder if being sent home early would be the worst thing. Give us a bit longer rest, get Brady in peak condition for next year, get our receiving group healthy, and try and bring in some other weapons. Jalen Reagor would be an interesting target for my mind.

Or, Brady could move on. That would absolutely suck, as I want him to retire in New England. However, I still think he has a bit left in the tank

He is 42.  It is over.  If they beat the Titans, they won't realistically get by the Chiefs, but let's just say Mahomes is injured early in the game and they get by the Chiefs, they aren't winning in Baltimore so they have to hope the Ravens lose and they get a better matchup, like say the Bills go on a miracle run.  They then would have to beat one of the juggernauts in the NFC.  It isn't happening and given Brady is 42 and has looked awful much of the year, the run is over.  They are done being a contender with Brady under center.  Father time has arrived and he is undefeated.

Given that he's had a worse season than this one and then gone on to win the Superbowl the very next season, I think it's premature to try and call it quits before he does.

[RPGenerate]

I'm never counting out the GOAT duo until the very end. It's a bit weird we have such a skeptical fanbase after seeing the possibly most improbable dynasty in sports history. It's almost as if we like eating crow. If Eli Manning and the derping Giants could go on that ridiculous Super Bowl run as wild cards twice, anything could happen.

[Moranis]

I don't think it's true that Brady "isn't very good."

Give him time to throw and solid receiving options, he'll make plays.  He can be relied on to drive you down the field.  If he trusts his receiving options and isn't forcing it to much too one guy (Edelman), he won't throw many picks.


Put him behind a piecemeal offensive line and give him only one or two guys he trusts to catch his passes and he's not going to look great.


Brady can't elevate a team anymore, but he's still good enough not to drag down an otherwise elite team.



"Done" to me is Peyton Manning in his last season with the Broncos.  Even though they won a title, he had a noodle arm and only a historically amazing defense and a lot of luck got them to a title.  Brady has more juice at this point than Peyton did back then.

He has a bit more than Manning did that season, but yesterday he wouldn't throw the ball downfield.  He was way off on several passes, some even to open guys.  I just don't think he has it anymore.  He could probably play the game manager role, but that requires a commitment to the run, something New England hasn't done in a decade.  And if you are going the game manager route, why not just move on.

There is the very real possibility that yesterday's performance was due more to Brady being hurt than Brady declining. He was on and off the injury report for the last part of the year with an elbow issue.

Brady was still top 10 in the league in passing yards, attempts, completions and interception percentage.

And that's all while leading the league in throw aways which helped to make sure he was sacked as little as any QB in the league given the amount of drop backs he had. And he did this because and in spite of a patchwork, atrocious offensive line.

Then add in the fact the Patriots led the league in drop passes and the context of Brady's season starts to come into better focus, especially given the lack of quality receiving targets other than Edelman and White(who did not have a good year).

Rebuild that offensive line, get a half decent receiving TE, let Harry develop a year with Brady and add another quality WR and Brady could easily be a top 10 QB statistically again next year.

That's a pretty good rationalisation of it, I gotta say. I had no idea about some of those stats, like the dropped passes one. I agree that Brady is quite obviously hurting, and with that as the case I'm not sure we can win it all this year. Gotta keep reminding myself to never count out Brady and Bill though.

Tennessee could certainly give us problems - Henry is an absolute machine. Wonder if being sent home early would be the worst thing. Give us a bit longer rest, get Brady in peak condition for next year, get our receiving group healthy, and try and bring in some other weapons. Jalen Reagor would be an interesting target for my mind.

Or, Brady could move on. That would absolutely suck, as I want him to retire in New England. However, I still think he has a bit left in the tank

He is 42.  It is over.  If they beat the Titans, they won't realistically get by the Chiefs, but let's just say Mahomes is injured early in the game and they get by the Chiefs, they aren't winning in Baltimore so they have to hope the Ravens lose and they get a better matchup, like say the Bills go on a miracle run.  They then would have to beat one of the juggernauts in the NFC.  It isn't happening and given Brady is 42 and has looked awful much of the year, the run is over.  They are done being a contender with Brady under center.  Father time has arrived and he is undefeated.

Given that he's had a worse season than this one and then gone on to win the Superbowl the very next season, I think it's premature to try and call it quits before he does.

This is Brady's worst season in his career in many meaningful metrics.  Now sure early on the Patriots were run-centric and didn't pass nearly as much, but Brady never had a 9 game stretch with a passer rating under 100 at any time in his career until this season.  He has the lowest TD% in his career.  His yards/attempt is the 2nd worst of his career.  He hasn't had this few yards in a full season in a decade (2010) when he had 36 TD's and just 4 INT's. 

HE IS 42.  You don't get better when you are his age you only get worse and this is Brady's worst season in his career (the only real argument for a worse season is 2002 when Brady was 25).  And this didn't just arise out of the blue, Brady has statistically been getting worse in each of the last 4 seasons.  It was more subtle than this year, but this has been the trend for awhile. 

I get wanting to hold on to hope and being optimistic, but that is just setting you up for heartbreak.  The Patriots are done as a contender with Brady.  The run was a lot longer than anyone could have reasonably anticipated, but it had to happen eventually and that time is now.