2019 Historical: How Does My Team Look Thread

[Silky]

The more I look at San Antonio the more I wonder if they have enough firepower in their starting lineup. It feels like they have less than most of the other teams in the league.

I think Bernard King needs to be in the starting unit instead of Bob Dandridge. Dandridge and DeBusschere together is relatively (to the rest of the league) lightweight offensively.

They need someone who can give them a little more punch. King can do that.

Honestly they need more glue guys imo. Hakeem and Kobe really need to touch the ball a lot to be effective, and both of them firing on all cylinders is enough offense if you add some deadly snipers from deep.

Dale Ellis 47% from 3 on almost 5 attempts per game.
And Bob and Dave are ultimate glue guys.

[Silky]

There, at least I got this thread pumping again.

The Duo of Kobe and Hakeem with Payton and Bob playing off of that is enough offense in my starting lineup. I needed defense to slow the top scorers on all other teams.

My bench I put against anyones and I firmly believe that mine is one of the top, if not the top scoring wise.

Penny - 21ppg
King 26.3
Carmelo - 27.4
Horford - 13
KAT - 21

I have huge offense from sf and sg, I have huge mismatches at PG and Center and no other center coming off the bench has the mobility to defend KAT on the perimeter, and no bench PG is large enough to defend Penny.


Also the years I chose may not be some of the teams top raw statistics seasons in some areas (like KAT for example) but I chose those years for a reason. Using KAT as an example, the season i chose was his best shooting season (42% from 3 on 3.5 attempts per game) I want to exploit his floorspacing off the bench.
Same with Horford.

For melo, slightly less scoring but alot more efficiency in the season selected.

King's year was chosen for efficiency.

Penny was for more postups that year and for higher 3pt%

Starting lineup I picked Kobes MVP year(also his most efficient season of his career), Paytons DPOY year(also his most efficient season), Bobs best rebounding and scoring year, Daves best rebounding year, Hakeems highest assist, highest scoring and his MVP, FMVP and DPOY year

[nickagneta]

ANNOUNCEMENT

I have ballots in from 5 owners and 2 non-participants. If I get all owners ballots into today by 6:00PM EST, I will do the winner reveal tonight at 8:00PM, otherwise it will be at noon EST tomorrow.

[Who]

Who is better - Penny or Payton?

Both guys in 1995-96. Payton was DPOY but Penny was the PG chosen as First Team All-NBA. Not Payton. Not Stockton. Penny was the PG selected. Penny finished 3rd in MVP voting that year.

[Silky]

Who is better - Penny or Payton?

Both guys in 1995-96. Payton was DPOY but Penny was the PG chosen as First Team All-NBA. Not Payton. Not Stockton. Penny was the PG selected. Penny finished 3rd in MVP voting that year.

Thats a very good question.

Payton shot a bit better, and defended better.

Penny was kind of unstoppable at times.

in 22 games of head to head Payton outperformed penny.



IMO Payton is top 5 PG all time, he is underrated.
Penny is outside that bubble, partially because of his injury history though, but peak, I think Payton brought everything, Penny was better offensively.

[Donoghus]

Who is better - Penny or Payton?

Both guys in 1995-96. Payton was DPOY but Penny was the PG chosen as First Team All-NBA. Not Payton. Not Stockton. Penny was the PG selected. Penny finished 3rd in MVP voting that year.

'95-96 Penny.   That was probably his peak season.  Healthy.  Shot over 50% from the field (for a PG!).  Dishing out 7 assists per game.   Serviceable rebounder. 

Mid 90s Penny was something else.  He was fast-tracking to HOF before the wheels came off due to a variety of factors.  Matchup nightmare.

[Somebody]

Who is better - Penny or Payton?

Both guys in 1995-96. Payton was DPOY but Penny was the PG chosen as First Team All-NBA. Not Payton. Not Stockton. Penny was the PG selected. Penny finished 3rd in MVP voting that year.

'95-96 Penny.   That was probably his peak season.  Healthy.  Shot over 50% from the field (for a PG!).  Dishing out 7 assists per game.   Serviceable rebounder. 

Mid 90s Penny was something else.  He was fast-tracking to HOF before the wheels came off due to a variety of factors.  Matchup nightmare.

^this. Peak Penny was considered to be one of the point forward pioneers of the 90s alongside Grant Hill.

[Somebody]

The more I look at San Antonio the more I wonder if they have enough firepower in their starting lineup. It feels like they have less than most of the other teams in the league.

I think Bernard King needs to be in the starting unit instead of Bob Dandridge. Dandridge and DeBusschere together is relatively (to the rest of the league) lightweight offensively.

They need someone who can give them a little more punch. King can do that.

Honestly they need more glue guys imo. Hakeem and Kobe really need to touch the ball a lot to be effective, and both of them firing on all cylinders is enough offense if you add some deadly snipers from deep.

Dale Ellis 47% from 3 on almost 5 attempts per game.
And Bob and Dave are ultimate glue guys.

Yeah I like that. Would like some more consistent shooting at the PF position though, and a better starting SF than Dandridge. And Ellis is nice, his defense wasn't all that good though.

[Who]

Who is better - Penny or Payton?

Both guys in 1995-96. Payton was DPOY but Penny was the PG chosen as First Team All-NBA. Not Payton. Not Stockton. Penny was the PG selected. Penny finished 3rd in MVP voting that year.

'95-96 Penny.   That was probably his peak season.  Healthy.  Shot over 50% from the field (for a PG!).  Dishing out 7 assists per game.   Serviceable rebounder. 

Mid 90s Penny was something else.  He was fast-tracking to HOF before the wheels came off due to a variety of factors.  Matchup nightmare.

^this. Peak Penny was considered to be one of the point forward pioneers of the 90s alongside Grant Hill.

So who should start - Penny or Payton?

[Donoghus]

Who is better - Penny or Payton?

Both guys in 1995-96. Payton was DPOY but Penny was the PG chosen as First Team All-NBA. Not Payton. Not Stockton. Penny was the PG selected. Penny finished 3rd in MVP voting that year.

'95-96 Penny.   That was probably his peak season.  Healthy.  Shot over 50% from the field (for a PG!).  Dishing out 7 assists per game.   Serviceable rebounder. 

Mid 90s Penny was something else.  He was fast-tracking to HOF before the wheels came off due to a variety of factors.  Matchup nightmare.

^this. Peak Penny was considered to be one of the point forward pioneers of the 90s alongside Grant Hill.

So who should start - Penny or Payton?

On that team?  With Kobe in the backcourt?  I'd lean Payton.   I think they'd mesh better.

It would be fascinating to see how a Hardaway/Kobe backcourt would work, though.   Fast breaks would be fun.

[nickagneta]

So, I finished my ballot. Not going to reveal my order but I have 5 teams I think good enough to compete for the title.
In no particular order they are Atlanta, Boston, Philadelphia, Los Angeles and Portland.

[Silky]

Who is better - Penny or Payton?

Both guys in 1995-96. Payton was DPOY but Penny was the PG chosen as First Team All-NBA. Not Payton. Not Stockton. Penny was the PG selected. Penny finished 3rd in MVP voting that year.

'95-96 Penny.   That was probably his peak season.  Healthy.  Shot over 50% from the field (for a PG!).  Dishing out 7 assists per game.   Serviceable rebounder. 

Mid 90s Penny was something else.  He was fast-tracking to HOF before the wheels came off due to a variety of factors.  Matchup nightmare.

^this. Peak Penny was considered to be one of the point forward pioneers of the 90s alongside Grant Hill.

So who should start - Penny or Payton?

Payton, to allow for a defensive boost against starters
Penny can use that offense to abuse bench players.

Look at opposing teams bench PGs
Iverson
Hardaway
Tiny
Cousy
Harper
Smart
KJ
Nash
Parker
Rose
Price

Thats a field say for Penny.

This way he can play to his absolute strengths off the bench. And Payton can play to his in the starting lineup. Defense.

[Moranis]

I just put my vote in.  Very difficult to separate a lot of the teams.  Everyone did a great job.

[gouki88]

Against Philly.

Bird scored 2ppg more than Bob in head to head. Rebound and got more assist though. Plus 2 to philly.


In 2002-2003 NOT prime payton. Payton outscore kidd 87 to 64. Slight advantage to kidd in rebounds. Advantage in assists. Advantage shooting oercentage to payton. And that was old payton. Payton wins by 1

Lets call kobe and pierce a draw. Its really close

Malone versus dave. Malone wpuldnt bully as much. And malone himeself states that without stockton he wasnt nearly as good. But kidd is as good atvsetting people up as stockton. Advantage malone. Plus 2.

Hakeem smokes patrick ewing. Statistically. Head to head all favor hakeem. Plus 2

Bench

Tiny versus a 6foot8 pg eho can postup yet has the speed to defend tiny. Advantage penny plus 1

Moncrief and king. Draw

Aguirre melo. Slightest of advantages to melo due to size and postup ability. Plus 1

Lucas horford. Horford has mobilty to defend on perimeter and is 4 inches taller and weighs more. Advantage horford. Plus 1

Lanier and kat is interesting. One plays strong inside which is a weakness for kat. One plays outside in which is a weakness for lanier. So draw?

 Head to head spurs win.

But then the arguement will change to fit and chemistry and Kobe will get pointed at for destroying chemistry. But in 2008 olympics he was a true teammate. I know it olympics and not nba but it just proves that the notion that kobe is all about kobe is false. He is about winning and doing what it takes. Problem is he never had real strong teams around him so he had to go mamba. With a team he was fine

Heck i remember once jeremy lin waved off kobe. And kobe didnt kill him.

I don't know if your use of stat categories to determine who wins match-ups is really sensible or conducive to good debate. Especially when you're using head-to-head stats, when the season I'm using for Bird was a season didn't even feature Dandridge in the league. Bird wasn't even a SF when he came up against Dandridge.

Payton vs Kidd is definitely a draw, can't really see how you'd argue otherwise.

Malone would certainly bully the 6'6" 220lbs Debusschere. Malone was one of the most physically imposing big men of all time.

Roy already addressed the Ewing vs Hakeem point you made - Ewing most certainly didn't have his lunch eaten by Hakeem in the season I chose.

I also really don't think you're comprehending just how unstoppable Tiny was in the early 70's. Penny certainly doesn't have the quickness to defend him - nobody did. That's how he nearly averaged 35/11 with double digit FTA numbers.

Melo has the advantage over Aguirre, but I'd like Kirilenko's chances to defend him.

Lucas is also an immeasurably better rebounder than Horford was, more efficient and a comparable passer.

Also really surprised to see you call KAT vs Lanier a draw. Lanier (as well as Kirilenko) is one of 18 players to finish a season with a VORP of over 7.5. Obviously not the be-all and end-all, but I really don't think KAT has the toughness or defensive ability to go with Lanier.

Plus, I have another triple-double threat with all-league defence off the bench in Lever. I really don't see your Spurs taking down my team.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I really think Somebody's team might be the best. I know little about Cowens, but the Curry-Irving-McGrady-Garnett core is unbelievable. Marion, Nash, Green at their best as backups is awesome too. I'm not sure any team could hang with this team offensively. And defensively, Green, Garnett, McGrady, and Marion would be terrifying to go against, even for the best scorers.

I like Brand, but even though his numbers were good, I'm not sure he was ever a great player. Eddie Jones is in the boat in my opinion.

Still, that top 8 is balanced with shooting, playmaking, offense, defensive versatility, and unbelievable tenacity.