4. Slight reach. Bird has a top 5 offensive peak but it didn’t match with his best defensive seasons in 80-84. Not sure if all time offense and above average defense (not elite or great) equals top 4.
Not sure how old you are Somebody, but this take makes me think you are fairly young and never got to see Bird.
Bird was all-time great offensively, from his sophomore season on and was a great team defender up until he got hurt in 1988. His All-Defense 2nd team selections were based not on Bird's individual defense but how, in an era of illegal defense calls and straight man to man defense, he was able to funnel his man into help, play passing lanes off ball, double team hard at the right time and help from the weak side. This was especially important as teams during that time used to love sticking one man on one side of the floor and four men on the other and let the player iso. Helping at the right time was huge.
Bird could score in an elite manner from everywhere. And he was already playing great defense in a team oriented style, something done way more after the defensive rule changes. His passing was better than LeBron's as was his rebounding.
Then you have his intangibles. He was as clutch as there was in this league ever. He was an incredible team leader that commanded respect. He made everyone who played with him better, something a lot of current stars don't really do. And he could blend styles of play like no other.
Bird was far from a reach at 4.
I'm going to be starting college this fall so you got me lol. Bird was not all-time great offensively starting from his sophomore season-from what I've seen and read he was a bit too rash in decision making and took a bit too many tough shots, which hampered his efficiency. His offensive tendencies to shoot outside and finish with crafty moves also limited his free throw attempts, which spike efficiency, and Bird's lack of them hurts him relative to other great scorers. He became all time great offensively from the 84-85 season by cleaning up his shot selection and improving his shot making, but unfortunately wasn't the same defensive savant by then. Really think he's a stretch to be picked at #4, just my opinion.
You are viewing only Bird's scoring here when rating his overall offense. Add the scoring and passing together and you have one of the best offensive player ever.
Right from day one.
...............
* 3 straight MVPs 84-86
* Runner up for MVP 81-83
* Legit MVP candidate as a rookie (finished 4th, was overlooked at 4 and should have been either 1 or 2 next to Kareem)
Then 3rd in 87 and 2nd again in 88.
That is an incredible run of individual dominance over his first 9 years. 3 times the best. 4 times second best. Once 3rd and once 4th (and he was overlooked being as low as four) .... heck, the year Bird was 3rd in 1987 he should have finished 2nd ahead of MJ (MJ still to selfish at that point).
Scoring is very important lol. Bird wasn't miles ahead of the other all time offensive greats when it comes to passing to make up for his deficiencies in scoring, especially in his earlier days when he wasn't as good at making inefficient shots compared to his prime with no real way of ramping it up if he's cold (can't draw 10+ FTs like other offensive greats even if he has a bad game shooting wise). Does offense that's a rung below all time great combined with all-time creation skills push his offense in the early days to top 5 all time, where he's competing against amazing scoring/efficiency/creation profiles in the primes of Jordan/LeBron/Magic ,an unmatched combination of volume and high efficiency scoring in 2000 Shaq, and finally the complete package of our very own prime Larry Bird? I'm talking about 81-84 Bird offensively, not 85-88 Bird.
Top 5 offensive peak ever ... now that is something that is going to require some thinking.
If using only season per player, I reckon Bird (81-84) would come pretty close to that. Maybe just outside the top 5.
Not sure how to rate him against Shaq. Bird did more to help his teammates and make them better offensively than Shaq did. Then there are two other guards along with Magic. MJ. Hmm ...
Tough question.
Not too sure about that, here's a comparison of his scoring plus creation with Magic and Jordan:
His seasons before his offensive peak lag quite a bit behind the peaks of Jordan and Magic, which probably doesn't put him close to top 5 lol. And 2000 Shaq was absolutely better than young Bird offensively, his scoring plus creation profile was absolutely insane when you factor in how efficient he was with so many touches.
Know who was better than young shaq offensively?
and defensively?
Hakeem
Pffft offensively? No way lol. Hakeem only truly reached all time level offensively in his peak stretch in the
playoffs. Here's how his RS peak compares to other big men:
He was dominant in that playoff stretch though, although it still wasn't as crazy as Shaq's 2000 season.
He was leagues better than Shaq defensively, I'll give you that.
Topic: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(TIME TO REVEAL THE WINNER!!!) (Read 280244 times)