YABU being waived

[Kuberski33]

Adam Himmelsbach
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@AdamHimmelsbach
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Per source, the Cs in the coming weeks could fill the 15th roster spot created by Guerschon's departure, but there's still a good chance that there will be more change before opening night.

This is ominous in my opinion.  The only holdovers who did not get brought back in free agency from last year’s roster are now:

Hayward
Smart
Tatum
Brown
Ojeleye
Williams

Presumably none of them are getting cut, with the small exception of Robert Williams if it’s just not working out and they don’t want to pick up his option for next year.  You wouldn’t expect anyone just signed or drafted to be cut.  So that means a good chance of a significant trade, since only these guys plus the draftees can be traded before opening night.

Here's the thing, right now this team can't defend a pick and roll which is the go to action for most teams.  Heard Ordway speculate on air today that it could be they're unsure of their ability to re-sign Jaylen long term and that Danny may be looking to move him in a pre-emptive strike as a way to address the current 4-5 situation.

I do think it's safe to say that Ainge is up to something, the question being what exactly?

[GreenEnvy]

When that dude showed up with red and then yellow hair, last year, I knew he was a joke.

You’re crazy! I LOVED the red hair. Not even joking.

Yabu was so much fun. Wasn’t a rotation player, but seemed like a great teammate.

[Kuberski33]

Timing is weird. They must be royally p!ssed that after they picked up his option he came into his last chance to make the team at Summer League in the horrible physical shape he did. You would figure Ainge might try to salary dump him but decided neither the cap space nor the second rounder nor the money you might need to send along in the trade was worth it. He also must not have seen losing a $3 million salary filler contract was worth keeping Yabu on the roster.

I also find it interesting that in Game 1, Yabu looked out of shape. Game 2 he seemed to be playing with some desperation in his game.  We was flying all over the court, contesting layups - really looked to be pressing. On the play he hurt his finger, he was diving for a loose ball.  I wonder whether Ainge read him the riot act after Game 1 and just said screw it, he's not making the team anyway?

Whether it's this or Ainge has something major in mind, the timing of this move is just really strange.

[Alleyoopster]

Timing is weird. They must be royally p!ssed that after they picked up his option he came into his last chance to make the team at Summer League in the horrible physical shape he did. You would figure Ainge might try to salary dump him but decided neither the cap space nor the second rounder nor the money you might need to send along in the trade was worth it. He also must not have seen losing a $3 million salary filler contract was worth keeping Yabu on the roster.

I also find it interesting that in Game 1, Yabu looked out of shape. Game 2 he seemed to be playing with some desperation in his game.  We was flying all over the court, contesting layups - really looked to be pressing. On the play he hurt his finger, he was diving for a loose ball.  I wonder whether Ainge read him the riot act after Game 1 and just said screw it, he's not making the team anyway?

Whether it's this or Ainge has something major in mind, the timing of this move is just really strange.

Don't think Danny needed to read him the riot act. He saw the competition closing in. And, the digital media foretold the inevitable. He didn't need to read between the lines - everything was in black and white. 

[Kuberski33]

Timing is weird. They must be royally p!ssed that after they picked up his option he came into his last chance to make the team at Summer League in the horrible physical shape he did. You would figure Ainge might try to salary dump him but decided neither the cap space nor the second rounder nor the money you might need to send along in the trade was worth it. He also must not have seen losing a $3 million salary filler contract was worth keeping Yabu on the roster.

I also find it interesting that in Game 1, Yabu looked out of shape. Game 2 he seemed to be playing with some desperation in his game.  We was flying all over the court, contesting layups - really looked to be pressing. On the play he hurt his finger, he was diving for a loose ball.  I wonder whether Ainge read him the riot act after Game 1 and just said screw it, he's not making the team anyway?

Whether it's this or Ainge has something major in mind, the timing of this move is just really strange.

Don't think Danny needed to read him the riot act. He saw the competition closing in. And, the digital media foretold the inevitable. He didn't need to read between the lines - everything was in black and white.

Except his salary had some trade value and it means acknowledging that you punted on a 1st round draft pick.  Dumping him now is a pretty significant move.

[Jiri Welsch]

Timing is weird. They must be royally p!ssed that after they picked up his option he came into his last chance to make the team at Summer League in the horrible physical shape he did. You would figure Ainge might try to salary dump him but decided neither the cap space nor the second rounder nor the money you might need to send along in the trade was worth it. He also must not have seen losing a $3 million salary filler contract was worth keeping Yabu on the roster.

I also find it interesting that in Game 1, Yabu looked out of shape. Game 2 he seemed to be playing with some desperation in his game.  We was flying all over the court, contesting layups - really looked to be pressing. On the play he hurt his finger, he was diving for a loose ball.  I wonder whether Ainge read him the riot act after Game 1 and just said screw it, he's not making the team anyway?

Whether it's this or Ainge has something major in mind, the timing of this move is just really strange.

Don't think Danny needed to read him the riot act. He saw the competition closing in. And, the digital media foretold the inevitable. He didn't need to read between the lines - everything was in black and white.

Either way, the timing is certainly strange.

[TheSundanceKid]

https://twitter.com/dangercart/status/1149343418931449856?s=09
Thread from dangercart. Suggests one of two things from the sequencing:

Because we waived Yab before signing Edwards, we won't have the cap space unless we stretch Yab. So either a trade is coming before we sign people or Yab will be stretched to make room for Edwards and maybe another signing.

Interesting

[tstorey_97]

Gotta be one of the worst mid-1st round picks I can remember.  He never came close to looking like an NBA player.

It was a bad pick, no doubt, but it hardly stands alone. Just in the same year as Yabu, the 13th pick was Georgios Papagiannis (still the highest-picked Greek!) who got minutes in only 39 games during his three-year nba career, despite playing on some bad teams, and was Yabu-level in his production (12 mpg, 4 ppg) before washing out. Henry Ellenson was picked 18th, played in 71 games over his four years, averaging under 10 mpg and putrid stats before being waived by the Knicks (now that’s a bad sign!).

Now hold on a minute with "missed draft picks."

Every GM in the NBA passed on this one player twice and....didn't even pick him up as an UDFA for a few days.

Tacko

Ainge has made up for every bad pick he has ever made (except for Melo) by signing Tacko to a 34 day conditional "we'll pay the bus fare to Portland only if you can't get a ride from someone, contract" and even then, you owe us the bus fare if you don't make the team)

My guess is they paid Irving's personal security guy more than Tacko and that security guy's wingspan isn't 10'2"...at least I don't think it was.

[MattyIce]

Gotta be one of the worst mid-1st round picks I can remember.  He never came close to looking like an NBA player.

It was a bad pick, no doubt, but it hardly stands alone. Just in the same year as Yabu, the 13th pick was Georgios Papagiannis (still the highest-picked Greek!) who got minutes in only 39 games during his three-year nba career, despite playing on some bad teams, and was Yabu-level in his production (12 mpg, 4 ppg) before washing out. Henry Ellenson was picked 18th, played in 71 games over his four years, averaging under 10 mpg and putrid stats before being waived by the Knicks (now that’s a bad sign!).

Now hold on a minute with "missed draft picks."

Every GM in the NBA passed on this one player twice and....didn't even pick him up as an UDFA for a few days.

Tacko

Ainge has made up for every bad pick he has ever made (except for Melo) by signing Tacko to a 34 day conditional "we'll pay the bus fare to Portland only if you can't get a ride from someone, contract" and even then, you owe us the bus fare if you don't make the team)

My guess is they paid Irving's personal security guy more than Tacko and that security guy's wingspan isn't 10'2"...at least I don't think it was.

what personal security guy are you referring to? 

[saltlover]

https://twitter.com/dangercart/status/1149343418931449856?s=09
Thread from dangercart. Suggests one of two things from the sequencing:

Because we waived Yab before signing Edwards, we won't have the cap space unless we stretch Yab. So either a trade is coming before we sign people or Yab will be stretched to make room for Edwards and maybe another signing.

Interesting

I’ve been too busy to update my spreadsheet at home, but I’ve got us still having some room for Edwards with cap space, and without a stretch, in the quick version I made during lunch.  My understanding is that Poirier hasn’t signed yet, and that gives us just enough space.

[W8ting2McHale]

Missed draft picks. Even Red had ‘em.

Michael Young was selected by the Boston Celtics with the 24th overall pick (1st round) of the 1984 NBA draft. He played in three NBA seasons: 1984–85 with the Phoenix Suns, 1985–86 with the Philadelphia 76ers, and 1989–90 with the Los Angeles Clippers.

Red cut him before the season started. KC thought he “showed a little bit,” but it wasn’t enough. Young was the only first round pick in 5 years that didn’t make his team on opening day. He spent most of his career overseas after being a star along side Olajuwon with Phi Slamma Jamma. Boston was a contender and didn’t have time to develop a late 1st round pick that wasn’t ready.

[Csfan1984]

https://twitter.com/dangercart/status/1149343418931449856?s=09
Thread from dangercart. Suggests one of two things from the sequencing:

Because we waived Yab before signing Edwards, we won't have the cap space unless we stretch Yab. So either a trade is coming before we sign people or Yab will be stretched to make room for Edwards and maybe another signing.

Interesting

Rookies are cap exempt unless the team plans on going over rookie scale. All things indicated are Edwards wants to hit FA and isn't looking for more years so the C's will end up at the rookie scale only with him.

[saltlover]

https://twitter.com/dangercart/status/1149343418931449856?s=09
Thread from dangercart. Suggests one of two things from the sequencing:

Because we waived Yab before signing Edwards, we won't have the cap space unless we stretch Yab. So either a trade is coming before we sign people or Yab will be stretched to make room for Edwards and maybe another signing.

Interesting

Rookies are cap exempt unless the team plans on going over rookie scale. All things indicated are Edwards wants to hit FA and isn't looking for more years so the C's will end up at the rookie scale only with him.

This is wrong on many levels.

1) 1st round draftees have a cap hold equal to 120% of their rookie scale amount until they sign, at which point their actual salary is in the cap (in practice virtually all 1st round picks sign for 120%.)

2) Edwards is a second round pick.  There is no rookie scale.  This means that in order to sign him, they must do one of the following: a) use cap space, b) use a mid-level exception of some sort, or c) use the minimum-exception.

Presumably the Celtics would prefer to use cap space, because then they can sign Edwards to a deal of up to 4 years, as they have done with many of their second rounders in the past few seasons (Demetrius Jackson, Abdel Nader, Jordan Mickey, and Semi Ojeleye were all signed to four year deals).  These deals were always more than the rookie minimum in year 1, and had varying amounts of guaranteed salary in year 2, which were at the second year minimum for all except Mickey, since the cap spike had far outpaced the minimum salaries by that point.

With all of these signings, the push and pull was between the amount of guaranteed money a player was willing to take in exchange for putting off free agency.  That is presumably at issue here as well.  I think the C’s will need to at least guarantee two full years to get Edwards to signing a deal of at least 3 years

[Csfan1984]

https://twitter.com/dangercart/status/1149343418931449856?s=09
Thread from dangercart. Suggests one of two things from the sequencing:

Because we waived Yab before signing Edwards, we won't have the cap space unless we stretch Yab. So either a trade is coming before we sign people or Yab will be stretched to make room for Edwards and maybe another signing.

Interesting

Rookies are cap exempt unless the team plans on going over rookie scale. All things indicated are Edwards wants to hit FA and isn't looking for more years so the C's will end up at the rookie scale only with him.

This is wrong on many levels.

1) 1st round draftees have a cap hold equal to 120% of their rookie scale amount until they sign, at which point their actual salary is in the cap (in practice virtually all 1st round picks sign for 120%.)

2) Edwards is a second round pick.  There is no rookie scale.  This means that in order to sign him, they must do one of the following: a) use cap space, b) use a mid-level exception of some sort, or c) use the minimum-exception.

Presumably the Celtics would prefer to use cap space, because then they can sign Edwards to a deal of up to 4 years, as they have done with many of their second rounders in the past few seasons (Demetrius Jackson, Abdel Nader, Jordan Mickey, and Semi Ojeleye were all signed to four year deals).  These deals were always more than the rookie minimum in year 1, and had varying amounts of guaranteed salary in year 2, which were at the second year minimum for all except Mickey, since the cap spike had far outpaced the minimum salaries by that point.

With all of these signings, the push and pull was between the amount of guaranteed money a player was willing to take in exchange for putting off free agency.  That is presumably at issue here as well.  I think the C’s will need to at least guarantee two full years to get Edwards to signing a deal of at least 3 years

That makes no sense. A rookie could in theory ask for 10 million or not sign if he is a 2nd round pick and doesn't want to play for a team. If the team doesn't sign him they would have to trade him or forfeit his rights if there was no scale.

[Fafnir]

That makes no sense. A rookie could in theory ask for 10 million or not sign if he is a 2nd round pick and doesn't want to play for a team. If the team doesn't sign him they would have to trade him or forfeit his rights if there was no scale.

There is no scale beyond the minimum and maximum salaries for all NBA players of a given years of experience on second round picks.

Below are the relevant larry coon sections to your question. If the player and the team cannot agree the player would need to sit out a full year and re-enter next years draft. Otherwise the drafting team will retain his rights as long as they offer the required tender.

48. What about second round draft picks? What rules do they operate under?
Unlike first round picks, who have a scale salary (see question number 47), second round picks do not have any specific salary restrictions. They may sign for any amount from the minimum to the maximum, but players who last to the second round of the draft seldom command more than the minimum salary. A second round picks may also be signed to a Two-Way contract1 (see question number 82).

Also unlike first round picks, teams do not receive a salary cap exception specifically for their second round picks. These players must be signed using cap room or an available exception (see question number 25), such as the Minimum Player Salary exception or the Mid-Level exception. It is most common for a second round pick to receive the minimum salary and be signed using the Minimum Player Salary exception. However, since the Minimum Player Salary exception limits contracts to two seasons, it is not uncommon for teams to use a portion of their Mid-Level exception in order to sign the player for three seasons. This gives the team full Bird rights at the end of the contract, and avoids the Gilbert Arenas provision (see question number 43).

Unsigned second round draft picks do not have a cap hold.

1   If a player is a second-round pick, his team submits a required tender (retaining its draft rights to the player), the player signs his required tender, and the team subsequently waives the player, then that team is the only team that can sign or convert (see question number 83) that player to a Two-Way contract in that season.

49. What if the team and their drafted player can't agree to a contract? What options does the player have? How long does the team keep his draft rights?
The player's options are limited. What happens depends on a number of factors:

If the player is already under contract to, or signs a contract with a non-NBA team, the drafting team retains the player's draft rights for one year after the player's obligation to the non-NBA team ends. Essentially, the clock stops as long as the player plays pro ball outside the NBA. Players are not included in team salary during the regular season while the player is under contract with a non-NBA team.
If the player goes on to play college ball after he was drafted, then the team retains the player's draft rights until one year following the draft the player would have entered had he not declared early. For example, if a team drafts a college sophomore in 2017 and he returns to college and plays intercollegiate basketball, then they retain his draft rights until the 2020 draft. Note that the NCAA rules state that players lose their NCAA eligibility if they are drafted, so the player currently cannot return or go on to play college ball. This rule exists in the CBA in the event the NCAA rules ever change.
If the player was eligible to play in college before he was drafted but does not go on to play college basketball, then the team retains the player's draft rights until the draft the player would have entered had he not declared early. For example, if a team drafts a college sophomore in 2017 and he does not return to college and play intercollegiate basketball, they retain his draft rights until the 2019 draft.
For all other players, the team retains the player's draft rights until the date of the next draft.
In any of the above cases, if the team does not sign the player in the allotted time, the player can enter the next draft. If the team that selects the player in the next draft doesn't sign him either, he becomes a rookie free agent on the date of the following draft.

When a team signs a first round draft pick within three years after he is drafted, they use the salary scale for the year in which he signs (usually the player signs in the same year he is drafted). After three years they have the option of either using the salary scale or signing him as if he was a free agent -- using their cap room or any available exception, with the standard raises. They can only do the latter if the player did not play intercollegiately in the interim. Such a contract must be for at least three seasons, and the salary in the first season must be greater than 120% of the applicable rookie scale amount.