Enes Kanter to Celtics

[jambr380]

Just to clarify my position yesterday because it might not have been clear: I'm OK with the contract because of the cost and desperation, but you guys need to understand that we didn't get a $15 mil player for $5 mil. We got, at best, a full MLE player for room MLE. The word "elite" shouldn't be used anywhere near him in any attribute. He ranges from poor to above average depending on the attribute. My hope is that he gets packaged with other assets for a Dedmon like $12 mil player as Dangercart suggested by the trade deadline.

Enes finished 4th, 5th, 13th, 4th and 6th in total offensive rebounds the last 5 years while never averaging above 25.8 minutes a game in any year. In those last five years he has finished 3rd, 1st, 3rd, 1st and 2nd in offensive rebounding percentage. And in total rebound percentage he has finished 15th, 4th, 17th, 3rd and 6th.

He has been a top 5 offensive rebounder in the entire league the last 5 years, any way you look at it, maybe probably top 3. That is elite. And his ability to get rebounds is top ten in that time.

If he had been putting in starter minutes, like 30-36 minutes a game, he probably would have had counting rebounding numbers that would have put him in the top 5 in the league in rebounds per game. That is an elite ability.

He’s also top-20 among active players in career FG%, eFG%, and TS%.  He’s got the 28th best career FG% of all time.

28th best ever is probably elite.

The rebounding #s are very impressive and something we should all be excited about.

But, Kanter probably needs to have some t-shirts made up that say "28th best career FG% all-time" because that is just ridiculous and something very few people know about him. He clearly knows what shots he should be taking (offensive put-backs are the best shots) - which is a very good attribute.

[keevsnick]

Just to clarify my position yesterday because it might not have been clear: I'm OK with the contract because of the cost and desperation, but you guys need to understand that we didn't get a $15 mil player for $5 mil. We got, at best, a full MLE player for room MLE. The word "elite" shouldn't be used anywhere near him in any attribute. He ranges from poor to above average depending on the attribute. My hope is that he gets packaged with other assets for a Dedmon like $12 mil player as Dangercart suggested by the trade deadline.

Enes finished 4th, 5th, 13th, 4th and 6th in total offensive rebounds the last 5 years while never averaging above 25.8 minutes a game in any year. In those last five years he has finished 3rd, 1st, 3rd, 1st and 2nd in offensive rebounding percentage. And in total rebound percentage he has finished 15th, 4th, 17th, 3rd and 6th.

He has been a top 5 offensive rebounder in the entire league the last 5 years, any way you look at it, maybe probably top 3. That is elite. And his ability to get rebounds is top ten in that time.

If he had been putting in starter minutes, like 30-36 minutes a game, he probably would have had counting rebounding numbers that would have put him in the top 5 in the league in rebounds per game. That is an elite ability.

He’s also top-20 among active players in career FG%, eFG%, and TS%.  He’s got the 28th best career FG% of all time.

28th best ever is probably elite.

The rebounding #s are very impressive and something we should all be excited about.

But, Kanter probably needs to have some t-shirts made up that say "28th best career FG% all-time" because that is just ridiculous and something very few people know about him. He clearly knows what shots he should be taking (offensive put-backs are the best shots) - which is a very good attribute.

The problem with Kanter isn't that he doesn't have any skills, as others have pointed out he is elite or near elite at a couple things like post scoring and rebounding. The problem is he is extremely weak in the one area where centers derive their most value, and which the Celtics as a team would probably derive the most value: defense. ESPN's RPM is a perfect stat, but it is useful for getting a rough idea of where a player stands. Of 72 qualifying centers Kanter was 71st in defensive RPM. And one of his best skills, post scoring, is one that brad Stevens has never shown any particular affinity for and the league has moved away from. He may start bombing threes next year but to this point hasn't shown any inclination to do so that hurts our spacing. The post scoring will help on the second unit, but the bottom line is you get what you pay for. I'd say he's close to properly valued at 5 million. He will help, but its a far from perfect solution.

[nickagneta]

Just to clarify my position yesterday because it might not have been clear: I'm OK with the contract because of the cost and desperation, but you guys need to understand that we didn't get a $15 mil player for $5 mil. We got, at best, a full MLE player for room MLE. The word "elite" shouldn't be used anywhere near him in any attribute. He ranges from poor to above average depending on the attribute. My hope is that he gets packaged with other assets for a Dedmon like $12 mil player as Dangercart suggested by the trade deadline.

Enes finished 4th, 5th, 13th, 4th and 6th in total offensive rebounds the last 5 years while never averaging above 25.8 minutes a game in any year. In those last five years he has finished 3rd, 1st, 3rd, 1st and 2nd in offensive rebounding percentage. And in total rebound percentage he has finished 15th, 4th, 17th, 3rd and 6th.

He has been a top 5 offensive rebounder in the entire league the last 5 years, any way you look at it, maybe probably top 3. That is elite. And his ability to get rebounds is top ten in that time.

If he had been putting in starter minutes, like 30-36 minutes a game, he probably would have had counting rebounding numbers that would have put him in the top 5 in the league in rebounds per game. That is an elite ability.

He’s also top-20 among active players in career FG%, eFG%, and TS%.  He’s got the 28th best career FG% of all time.

28th best ever is probably elite.

The rebounding #s are very impressive and something we should all be excited about.

But, Kanter probably needs to have some t-shirts made up that say "28th best career FG% all-time" because that is just ridiculous and something very few people know about him. He clearly knows what shots he should be taking (offensive put-backs are the best shots) - which is a very good attribute.

The problem with Kanter isn't that he doesn't have any skills, as others have pointed out he is elite or near elite at a couple things like post scoring and rebounding. The problem is he is extremely weak in the one area where centers derive their most value, and which the Celtics as a team would probably derive the most value: defense. ESPN's RPM is a perfect stat, but it is useful for getting a rough idea of where a player stands. Of 72 qualifying centers Kanter was 71st in defensive RPM. And one of his best skills, post scoring, is one that brad Stevens has never shown any particular affinity for and the league has moved away from. He may start bombing threes next year but to this point hasn't shown any inclination to do so that hurts our spacing. The post scoring will help on the second unit, but the bottom line is you get what you pay for. I'd say he's close to properly valued at 5 million. He will help, but its a far from perfect solution.

I find ESPN's RPM stat, a stat they refuse to give the math on, as garbage.

It has a predictive nature to it and the noise due to playing with other players is ridiculous.

Just take a look at their top players with the RPM stat. Danny Green 13th best RPM in the league. Paul Milsap 19th. Kevin Looney 27th best. Meanwhile Kawhi was 31st. It had Serge Ibaka as the 45th best center in the league.

It has always been a complete garbage stat.

[Roy H.]

Just to clarify my position yesterday because it might not have been clear: I'm OK with the contract because of the cost and desperation, but you guys need to understand that we didn't get a $15 mil player for $5 mil. We got, at best, a full MLE player for room MLE. The word "elite" shouldn't be used anywhere near him in any attribute. He ranges from poor to above average depending on the attribute. My hope is that he gets packaged with other assets for a Dedmon like $12 mil player as Dangercart suggested by the trade deadline.

Enes finished 4th, 5th, 13th, 4th and 6th in total offensive rebounds the last 5 years while never averaging above 25.8 minutes a game in any year. In those last five years he has finished 3rd, 1st, 3rd, 1st and 2nd in offensive rebounding percentage. And in total rebound percentage he has finished 15th, 4th, 17th, 3rd and 6th.

He has been a top 5 offensive rebounder in the entire league the last 5 years, any way you look at it, maybe probably top 3. That is elite. And his ability to get rebounds is top ten in that time.

If he had been putting in starter minutes, like 30-36 minutes a game, he probably would have had counting rebounding numbers that would have put him in the top 5 in the league in rebounds per game. That is an elite ability.

He’s also top-20 among active players in career FG%, eFG%, and TS%.  He’s got the 28th best career FG% of all time.

28th best ever is probably elite.

The rebounding #s are very impressive and something we should all be excited about.

But, Kanter probably needs to have some t-shirts made up that say "28th best career FG% all-time" because that is just ridiculous and something very few people know about him. He clearly knows what shots he should be taking (offensive put-backs are the best shots) - which is a very good attribute.

The problem with Kanter isn't that he doesn't have any skills, as others have pointed out he is elite or near elite at a couple things like post scoring and rebounding. The problem is he is extremely weak in the one area where centers derive their most value, and which the Celtics as a team would probably derive the most value: defense. ESPN's RPM is a perfect stat, but it is useful for getting a rough idea of where a player stands. Of 72 qualifying centers Kanter was 71st in defensive RPM. And one of his best skills, post scoring, is one that brad Stevens has never shown any particular affinity for and the league has moved away from. He may start bombing threes next year but to this point hasn't shown any inclination to do so that hurts our spacing. The post scoring will help on the second unit, but the bottom line is you get what you pay for. I'd say he's close to properly valued at 5 million. He will help, but its a far from perfect solution.

I find ESPN's RPM stat, a stat they refuse to give the math on, as garbage.

It has a predictive nature to it and the noise due to playing with other players is ridiculous.

Just take a look at their top players with the RPM stat. Danny Green 13th best RPM in the league. Paul Milsap 19th. Kevin Looney 27th best. Meanwhile Kawhi was 31st. It had Serge Ibaka as the 45th best center in the league.

It has always been a complete garbage stat.

It did find Boogie to be the 8th best defensive center, so there’s that.

[gouki88]

Just to clarify my position yesterday because it might not have been clear: I'm OK with the contract because of the cost and desperation, but you guys need to understand that we didn't get a $15 mil player for $5 mil. We got, at best, a full MLE player for room MLE. The word "elite" shouldn't be used anywhere near him in any attribute. He ranges from poor to above average depending on the attribute. My hope is that he gets packaged with other assets for a Dedmon like $12 mil player as Dangercart suggested by the trade deadline.

Enes finished 4th, 5th, 13th, 4th and 6th in total offensive rebounds the last 5 years while never averaging above 25.8 minutes a game in any year. In those last five years he has finished 3rd, 1st, 3rd, 1st and 2nd in offensive rebounding percentage. And in total rebound percentage he has finished 15th, 4th, 17th, 3rd and 6th.

He has been a top 5 offensive rebounder in the entire league the last 5 years, any way you look at it, maybe probably top 3. That is elite. And his ability to get rebounds is top ten in that time.

If he had been putting in starter minutes, like 30-36 minutes a game, he probably would have had counting rebounding numbers that would have put him in the top 5 in the league in rebounds per game. That is an elite ability.

He’s also top-20 among active players in career FG%, eFG%, and TS%.  He’s got the 28th best career FG% of all time.

28th best ever is probably elite.

The rebounding #s are very impressive and something we should all be excited about.

But, Kanter probably needs to have some t-shirts made up that say "28th best career FG% all-time" because that is just ridiculous and something very few people know about him. He clearly knows what shots he should be taking (offensive put-backs are the best shots) - which is a very good attribute.

The problem with Kanter isn't that he doesn't have any skills, as others have pointed out he is elite or near elite at a couple things like post scoring and rebounding. The problem is he is extremely weak in the one area where centers derive their most value, and which the Celtics as a team would probably derive the most value: defense. ESPN's RPM is a perfect stat, but it is useful for getting a rough idea of where a player stands. Of 72 qualifying centers Kanter was 71st in defensive RPM. And one of his best skills, post scoring, is one that brad Stevens has never shown any particular affinity for and the league has moved away from. He may start bombing threes next year but to this point hasn't shown any inclination to do so that hurts our spacing. The post scoring will help on the second unit, but the bottom line is you get what you pay for. I'd say he's close to properly valued at 5 million. He will help, but its a far from perfect solution.

I find ESPN's RPM stat, a stat they refuse to give the math on, as garbage.

It has a predictive nature to it and the noise due to playing with other players is ridiculous.

Just take a look at their top players with the RPM stat. Danny Green 13th best RPM in the league. Paul Milsap 19th. Kevin Looney 27th best. Meanwhile Kawhi was 31st. It had Serge Ibaka as the 45th best center in the league.

It has always been a complete garbage stat.

It did find Boogie to be the 8th best defensive center, so there’s that.

So if we sign Boogie it's #18 time?

[jacigar]

Add Vincent Poirier  7' center from euroleague . Would give us Poirier ,R.Walker,Theis,Kanter in frontcourt.

[hwangjini_1]

Is Kanter okay in the short-mid? If he is he'll be much more versatile than a center who can't shoot for us on the offensive end.

you can find his chart short for 2018-19 here:

http://www.austinclemens.com/shotcharts/

in brief...

3 point shooting is bad, EXCEPT from the top of the arc, when he shot 14 times and made 36%. small sample size, but encouraging. he took a total of 20 3 pointers last season.

directly under the basket he is money. 58% shooting. that is where most of his shots are, 373 of them to be precise.

mid range has variation, but he took only a total of 39 shots total. so he doesnt think this is a great place to shoot. from the elbows he shot 50%, but on 6 shots total. the remainder of the mid range shots were worse percentage wise.

my conclusions? keep him under the basket so he can score and rebound. maybe see if he can make an occasional 3 pointer from straight on. and if at all possible, make sure he is the scoring big for the second team and avoid starting him.

[Somebody]

Is Kanter okay in the short-mid? If he is he'll be much more versatile than a center who can't shoot for us on the offensive end.

you can find his chart short for 2018-19 here:

http://www.austinclemens.com/shotcharts/

in brief...

3 point shooting is bad, EXCEPT from the top of the arc, when he shot 14 times and made 36%. small sample size, but encouraging. he took a total of 20 3 pointers last season.

directly under the basket he is money. 58% shooting. that is where most of his shots are, 373 of them to be precise.

mid range has variation, but he took only a total of 39 shots total. so he doesnt think this is a great place to shoot. from the elbows he shot 50%, but on 6 shots total. the remainder of the mid range shots were worse percentage wise.

my conclusions? keep him under the basket so he can score and rebound. maybe see if he can make an occasional 3 pointer from straight on. and if at all possible, make sure he is the scoring big for the second team and avoid starting him.

TP for the info. I meant short-mid as in the area where bigs use little hooks or floaters though. If he's effective at that and is decent at the elbows, he'd be much more versatile than a complete non shooter whose sole purpose is a rim runner on offense. Might be enough to mitigate his defensive shortcomings too tbh.

[Silky]

Countering kanter defensive ability means playing brown and smart with him.

Both those 2 can fight through screens limiting the amount of switching kanter will be exposed to.

[Tr1boy]

Is Kanter okay in the short-mid? If he is he'll be much more versatile than a center who can't shoot for us on the offensive end.

you can find his chart short for 2018-19 here:

http://www.austinclemens.com/shotcharts/

in brief...

3 point shooting is bad, EXCEPT from the top of the arc, when he shot 14 times and made 36%. small sample size, but encouraging. he took a total of 20 3 pointers last season.

directly under the basket he is money. 58% shooting. that is where most of his shots are, 373 of them to be precise.

mid range has variation, but he took only a total of 39 shots total. so he doesnt think this is a great place to shoot. from the elbows he shot 50%, but on 6 shots total. the remainder of the mid range shots were worse percentage wise.

my conclusions? keep him under the basket so he can score and rebound. maybe see if he can make an occasional 3 pointer from straight on. and if at all possible, make sure he is the scoring big for the second team and avoid starting him.

Kanter has good shooting form/solid at the FT line.  OKC, Knicks, Blazers didn't ask him to shoot the ball

But Kanter 3 point highlights below shows that he has good form.  IMO Celts will ask him to shoot it more.  He can also give you quality scoring chances near the basket.  If Kanter can get more reps and have the green light to shoot 3s, it not only helps the team (CBS system) but also benefit/enhance Kanter game/career

https://youtu.be/IgUHF2tI5zg?t=30

[footey]

Is Kanter okay in the short-mid? If he is he'll be much more versatile than a center who can't shoot for us on the offensive end.

you can find his chart short for 2018-19 here:

http://www.austinclemens.com/shotcharts/

in brief...

3 point shooting is bad, EXCEPT from the top of the arc, when he shot 14 times and made 36%. small sample size, but encouraging. he took a total of 20 3 pointers last season.

directly under the basket he is money. 58% shooting. that is where most of his shots are, 373 of them to be precise.

mid range has variation, but he took only a total of 39 shots total. so he doesnt think this is a great place to shoot. from the elbows he shot 50%, but on 6 shots total. the remainder of the mid range shots were worse percentage wise.

my conclusions? keep him under the basket so he can score and rebound. maybe see if he can make an occasional 3 pointer from straight on. and if at all possible, make sure he is the scoring big for the second team and avoid starting him.

Kanter has good shooting form/solid at the FT line.  OKC, Knicks, Blazers didn't ask him to shoot the ball

But Kanter 3 point highlights below shows that he has good form.  IMO Celts will ask him to shoot it more.  He can also give you quality scoring chances near the basket.  If Kanter can get more reps and have the green light to shoot 3s, it not only helps the team (CBS system) but also benefit/enhance Kanter game/career

https://youtu.be/IgUHF2tI5zg?t=30

Of course he spends so much time crashing the offensive boards, so who has time to take 3's??

[keevsnick]

Just to clarify my position yesterday because it might not have been clear: I'm OK with the contract because of the cost and desperation, but you guys need to understand that we didn't get a $15 mil player for $5 mil. We got, at best, a full MLE player for room MLE. The word "elite" shouldn't be used anywhere near him in any attribute. He ranges from poor to above average depending on the attribute. My hope is that he gets packaged with other assets for a Dedmon like $12 mil player as Dangercart suggested by the trade deadline.

Enes finished 4th, 5th, 13th, 4th and 6th in total offensive rebounds the last 5 years while never averaging above 25.8 minutes a game in any year. In those last five years he has finished 3rd, 1st, 3rd, 1st and 2nd in offensive rebounding percentage. And in total rebound percentage he has finished 15th, 4th, 17th, 3rd and 6th.

He has been a top 5 offensive rebounder in the entire league the last 5 years, any way you look at it, maybe probably top 3. That is elite. And his ability to get rebounds is top ten in that time.

If he had been putting in starter minutes, like 30-36 minutes a game, he probably would have had counting rebounding numbers that would have put him in the top 5 in the league in rebounds per game. That is an elite ability.

He’s also top-20 among active players in career FG%, eFG%, and TS%.  He’s got the 28th best career FG% of all time.

28th best ever is probably elite.

The rebounding #s are very impressive and something we should all be excited about.

But, Kanter probably needs to have some t-shirts made up that say "28th best career FG% all-time" because that is just ridiculous and something very few people know about him. He clearly knows what shots he should be taking (offensive put-backs are the best shots) - which is a very good attribute.

The problem with Kanter isn't that he doesn't have any skills, as others have pointed out he is elite or near elite at a couple things like post scoring and rebounding. The problem is he is extremely weak in the one area where centers derive their most value, and which the Celtics as a team would probably derive the most value: defense. ESPN's RPM is a perfect stat, but it is useful for getting a rough idea of where a player stands. Of 72 qualifying centers Kanter was 71st in defensive RPM. And one of his best skills, post scoring, is one that brad Stevens has never shown any particular affinity for and the league has moved away from. He may start bombing threes next year but to this point hasn't shown any inclination to do so that hurts our spacing. The post scoring will help on the second unit, but the bottom line is you get what you pay for. I'd say he's close to properly valued at 5 million. He will help, but its a far from perfect solution.

I find ESPN's RPM stat, a stat they refuse to give the math on, as garbage.

It has a predictive nature to it and the noise due to playing with other players is ridiculous.

Just take a look at their top players with the RPM stat. Danny Green 13th best RPM in the league. Paul Milsap 19th. Kevin Looney 27th best. Meanwhile Kawhi was 31st. It had Serge Ibaka as the 45th best center in the league.

It has always been a complete garbage stat.

It ranks guys like Greene, Smart, Millsap very favorably and all three are guys with a reputation of contributing more to winning than their box score stats indicate. I'd say that is kind of a point in its favor if anything. But you are right in principal, we shouldn't rely exclusively on  it to determine a guys valye. In this case however the stat very closely matches the actual scouting. Kanter is garbage, or at least garbage adjacent on defense.

[footey]

Is Kanter okay in the short-mid? If he is he'll be much more versatile than a center who can't shoot for us on the offensive end.

you can find his chart short for 2018-19 here:

http://www.austinclemens.com/shotcharts/

in brief...

3 point shooting is bad, EXCEPT from the top of the arc, when he shot 14 times and made 36%. small sample size, but encouraging. he took a total of 20 3 pointers last season.

directly under the basket he is money. 58% shooting. that is where most of his shots are, 373 of them to be precise.

mid range has variation, but he took only a total of 39 shots total. so he doesnt think this is a great place to shoot. from the elbows he shot 50%, but on 6 shots total. the remainder of the mid range shots were worse percentage wise.

my conclusions? keep him under the basket so he can score and rebound. maybe see if he can make an occasional 3 pointer from straight on. and if at all possible, make sure he is the scoring big for the second team and avoid starting him.

I completely agree with this. Even if we fail to sign another big, Kanter should come off the bench and give us instant offense and rebounding. But we need a more defensive oriented starting center, and I would include Time Lord as a candidate for that spot. Assuming he proves himself during training camp.

[bellerephon]

Is Kanter okay in the short-mid? If he is he'll be much more versatile than a center who can't shoot for us on the offensive end.

you can find his chart short for 2018-19 here:

http://www.austinclemens.com/shotcharts/

in brief...

3 point shooting is bad, EXCEPT from the top of the arc, when he shot 14 times and made 36%. small sample size, but encouraging. he took a total of 20 3 pointers last season.

directly under the basket he is money. 58% shooting. that is where most of his shots are, 373 of them to be precise.

mid range has variation, but he took only a total of 39 shots total. so he doesnt think this is a great place to shoot. from the elbows he shot 50%, but on 6 shots total. the remainder of the mid range shots were worse percentage wise.

my conclusions? keep him under the basket so he can score and rebound. maybe see if he can make an occasional 3 pointer from straight on. and if at all possible, make sure he is the scoring big for the second team and avoid starting him.

I completely agree with this. Even if we fail to sign another big, Kanter should come off the bench and give us instant offense and rebounding. But we need a more defensive oriented starting center, and I would include Time Lord as a candidate for that spot. Assuming he proves himself during training camp.

Unless Time Lord has made major strides this summer or they add a starting quality big, Kanter is clearly the front runner to start. His flaws don't change the fact that he is clearly their best option at the five right now.

[Tr1boy]

Just to clarify my position yesterday because it might not have been clear: I'm OK with the contract because of the cost and desperation, but you guys need to understand that we didn't get a $15 mil player for $5 mil. We got, at best, a full MLE player for room MLE. The word "elite" shouldn't be used anywhere near him in any attribute. He ranges from poor to above average depending on the attribute. My hope is that he gets packaged with other assets for a Dedmon like $12 mil player as Dangercart suggested by the trade deadline.

Enes finished 4th, 5th, 13th, 4th and 6th in total offensive rebounds the last 5 years while never averaging above 25.8 minutes a game in any year. In those last five years he has finished 3rd, 1st, 3rd, 1st and 2nd in offensive rebounding percentage. And in total rebound percentage he has finished 15th, 4th, 17th, 3rd and 6th.

He has been a top 5 offensive rebounder in the entire league the last 5 years, any way you look at it, maybe probably top 3. That is elite. And his ability to get rebounds is top ten in that time.

If he had been putting in starter minutes, like 30-36 minutes a game, he probably would have had counting rebounding numbers that would have put him in the top 5 in the league in rebounds per game. That is an elite ability.

He’s also top-20 among active players in career FG%, eFG%, and TS%.  He’s got the 28th best career FG% of all time.

28th best ever is probably elite.

The rebounding #s are very impressive and something we should all be excited about.

But, Kanter probably needs to have some t-shirts made up that say "28th best career FG% all-time" because that is just ridiculous and something very few people know about him. He clearly knows what shots he should be taking (offensive put-backs are the best shots) - which is a very good attribute.

The problem with Kanter isn't that he doesn't have any skills, as others have pointed out he is elite or near elite at a couple things like post scoring and rebounding. The problem is he is extremely weak in the one area where centers derive their most value, and which the Celtics as a team would probably derive the most value: defense. ESPN's RPM is a perfect stat, but it is useful for getting a rough idea of where a player stands. Of 72 qualifying centers Kanter was 71st in defensive RPM. And one of his best skills, post scoring, is one that brad Stevens has never shown any particular affinity for and the league has moved away from. He may start bombing threes next year but to this point hasn't shown any inclination to do so that hurts our spacing. The post scoring will help on the second unit, but the bottom line is you get what you pay for. I'd say he's close to properly valued at 5 million. He will help, but its a far from perfect solution.

Lets see how it all fits together/plays out

before over worrying about xyz

if Kanter nor Robert Williams can be dependable starting centers..... then Danny can make a trade

Not worried