Boston Globe: Kyrie quit on the Celtics in games 4 and 5

[mmmmm]

The local press hold negative info on players all the time as a favor to the team and to still have inside access to other important info. It happens with every local media person in every city across every sport. It's even done with media who cover Division I college programs across the country.

Once a local guy leaks inside negative info that makes a team or player look bad, their access to interviews of the players, the coach, and Ainge will cease to exist and render them unable to be a proper reporter on the team. So they withhold the info until they get the okay for it to be released.

This is pretty much "How to be a Beat Reporter 101" if there was a class on how to be a beat Reporter. You don't bite the hand that is feeding you the inside scoop.

Totally correct.


So why is it a "smear campaign" if the team lets the beat reporters (and other insider folks) know that it's OK to run whatever stories they have about a player who has burned a bridge with the team?

As I said, call it whatever you want smear campaign, scapegoating, damage control...it's all semantics. It's the spreading of info to make Kyrie look bad and to make people sympathetic to the people that remain within the organization. I think it's definitely a concerted effort on the team's part to make people see Kyrie differently. It really doesn't matter to me that the info is true, it's still the team putting out negative info on Kyrie. And I don't see anything wrong with the reporters knowing and withholding the info. That's part of being in the profession they are in.

Well, it certainly matters to me if the info is true or not.

Putting out negative information that was false would be a terrible, awful thing.   I think it is a false equivalence to suggest that whether it is true or not doesn't matter.

I totally understand _why_ reporters who rely on regular access (whether this is to a sports team or to a government administration or a police department or a movie production set or whatever) needs to refrain from 'burning' their sources.   So I don't really blame any of the reporters for holding back on this 'negative' info.

But it is fact that the result of them having done so was in Kyrie's favor.

For them to release it now, assuming it is true, doesn't strike me as 'wrong' because it would not be fair to the fans or the Celtics or the other players if this information were to continue to be held back.  People would be passing judgement on all the parties with incomplete information.   That would be unfair to all parties.  So long as the information is true, then it helps people understand what really happened in the situation.

If the information were false, then it would definitely be a wrong thing.  That would essentially be slander.  And totally unfair to Kyrie in that case.

So I don't see how we can say that it doesn't matter whether it is true or not.

[No Nickname]

You reap what you sew and Kyrie sewed a lot of oats this year.

You might be mixing some metaphors there, but I get what you're saying. Ha!

[nickagneta]

The local press hold negative info on players all the time as a favor to the team and to still have inside access to other important info. It happens with every local media person in every city across every sport. It's even done with media who cover Division I college programs across the country.

Once a local guy leaks inside negative info that makes a team or player look bad, their access to interviews of the players, the coach, and Ainge will cease to exist and render them unable to be a proper reporter on the team. So they withhold the info until they get the okay for it to be released.

This is pretty much "How to be a Beat Reporter 101" if there was a class on how to be a beat Reporter. You don't bite the hand that is feeding you the inside scoop.

Totally correct.


So why is it a "smear campaign" if the team lets the beat reporters (and other insider folks) know that it's OK to run whatever stories they have about a player who has burned a bridge with the team?

As I said, call it whatever you want smear campaign, scapegoating, damage control...it's all semantics. It's the spreading of info to make Kyrie look bad and to make people sympathetic to the people that remain within the organization. I think it's definitely a concerted effort on the team's part to make people see Kyrie differently. It really doesn't matter to me that the info is true, it's still the team putting out negative info on Kyrie. And I don't see anything wrong with the reporters knowing and withholding the info. That's part of being in the profession they are in.

Well, it certainly matters to me if the info is true or not.

Putting out negative information that was false would be a terrible, awful thing.   I think it is a false equivalence to suggest that whether it is true or not doesn't matter.

I totally understand _why_ reporters who rely on regular access (whether this is to a sports team or to a government administration or a police department or a movie production set or whatever) needs to refrain from 'burning' their sources.   So I don't really blame any of the reporters for holding back on this 'negative' info.

But it is fact that the result of them having done so was in Kyrie's favor.

For them to release it now, assuming it is true, doesn't strike me as 'wrong' because it would not be fair to the fans or the Celtics or the other players if this information were to continue to be held back.  People would be passing judgement on all the parties with incomplete information.   That would be unfair to all parties.  So long as the information is true, then it helps people understand what really happened in the situation.

If the information were false, then it would definitely be a wrong thing.  That would essentially be slander.  And totally unfair to Kyrie in that case.

So I don't see how we can say that it doesn't matter whether it is true or not.

You are taking that statement out of context. We were discussing the term smear campaign. If the info was false, it's a smear campaign by it's very literal definition. I am used the term smear campaign but in this instance to me it doesn't matter if the info is true or not, it's still a smear campaign because they are using the release of the negativity of the info to make themselves look better. As I said, call it what you will smear campaign, public relations, scapegoating. It doesn't matter to me.

And, btw, withholding of negative stuff is in Kyrie's favor but it also is done to help the team. If that info got out, maybe the fans get miffed and stop renewing season tickets. It would lower Kyrie's trade value if Danny wanted to move Kyrie, again, hurting the franchise. It could sew even more distrust between the players, coaches and management causing even worse chemistry issues and more losses.

Kyrie wasn't the only beneficiary of the press holding back that information.

[PhoSita]

You reap what you sew and Kyrie sewed a lot of oats this year.

You might be mixing some metaphors there, but I get what you're saying. Ha!

What I did was use the incorrect spelling of the word.

It's "sow" not "sew."

 

[nickagneta]

You reap what you sew and Kyrie sewed a lot of oats this year.

You might be mixing some metaphors there, but I get what you're saying. Ha!

What I did was use the incorrect spelling of the word.

It's "sow" not "sew."

 

It was autocorrect!!! It was autocorrect!!!(No need to ever admit a spelling error ever....LOL)

[Ogaju]

Independent of this Finn tweet, Bill Simmons said he felt Kyrie quit in the Bucks series in the BS podcast with his dad (posted yesterday). Also, there are those reports Kyrie was doing odd things like requesting to guard Giannis and predictably getting destroyed.

I see more than a few people quick to defend Kyrie in this thread so far, and I think it's because "quit" is such a strong term, especially in sports. It almost seems to suggest intentional tanking of a play, which is not what I think happened, but if you tell me his heart wasn't totally into it (especially when the Celtics fell behind) I would agree with that statement without any reservation.

Even something as simple as taking more pullup 3s because you don't want to spend the extra effort to drive or get hit can be an example of being checked out mentally. Not to mention, not wanting to get injured because you know you're not going to re-sign leads to more cautious play.

I just really wish Stevens had benched him at the end. If you're going to lose the series anyway, play the players who are actually listening to the coach.

that  is probably what he wanted so that he would not look like a malcontent when he opted out and jumped into free agency.

[IDreamCeltics]

This is a video that highlights his play in the Bucks series

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUBsqfkBmYE&t=47s

[Ogaju]

I'm glad the guy is gone. Good riddance!

you can see some here are still hanging on to the malcontent, I figured this guy out a long time ago.

[No Nickname]

You reap what you sew and Kyrie sewed a lot of oats this year.

You might be mixing some metaphors there, but I get what you're saying. Ha!

What I did was use the incorrect spelling of the word.

It's "sow" not "sew."

 

Well I didn’t want to correct you in a misspelling. Everyone does that and many times it’s an autocorrect issue.

But sowing your wild oats has to do with sexual promiscuity and not anything Kyrie has done with the Celtics. 

[Ogaju]

I don't think he quit, but it's clear he gave up on trying to believe in his teammates. He knew they weren't going to show up so he tried to do everything himself which played directly into the Bucks' gameplan.

Its still amazing to me that people will come for Kyrie, but Gordon can pout and take 5 shots in a critical playoff game and no one says a word. Yeah, i know "but his ankle...." that doesn't effect body language and effort.

Who have you actually witnessed that wasn't critical of Gordon? You post a lot about how nobody criticises him, which is something I find to be simply false

I don't see nearly at the level that Kyrie gets it - who btw also had a second unplanned procedure on his knee that affected his offseason. The bending over backwards to make excuses for Gordon is also quite ridiculous at this point. Yes Gordon got hurt. Yes it sucked. But if he's out there he should be held to the same standard. It's pretty obvious he's been handled with kid gloves by management, the coaching staff, fans and media.

I've always said that if Kyrie had suffered an injury at the level of severity and put up the season Gordon did, the vitriol would be next level.

Kyrie is a far more polarizing figure than Hayward.  All of us would have liked Hayward to play better against Milwaukee, especially after his resurgence during the last month of the regular season.  That said, there were a ton of chemistry issues that tore the team apart.

Gordon should certainly receive his fair share of criticism.  However, let's not forget that he was mentally broken for a good chunk of the season.  I'm sure the subtle resentment in the locker room was wearing him down.  He needed touches and freedom in order find his confidence.  At the same time, those touches were making his teammates second guess the priorities of the coaching staff.  No wonder the guy needed to see a sports psychologist.  It was a [dang]ed if you do, [dang]ed if you don't type of situation. 

Ultimately, this is where a lack of leadership comes into play.  Most reports indicate that the locker room was quiet and full of awkward tension.  It's frustrating because the solution seems pretty straightforward from the outside looking in.  Hayward accepted the bench role like he should have.  As soon as that happened, his teammates should have collectively made an effort to help him find his confidence.  Instead, it appears that Gordon was on an island by himself, while the rest of the team was having separate conflicts with each other.

And this is exactly what I'm referring to.

" All of us would have liked Hayward to play better against Milwaukee, especially after his resurgence during the last month of the regular season.  That said, there were a ton of chemistry issues that tore the team apart."

Okay and? I'm sorry, but that is applicable to every member of the team. Gordon isn't the one affected by chemistry issues. He's not a victim. Especially considering the favoritism of him by the coaching staff reportedly contributed to the issues. Especially when his wife is on social media after he takes 5 shots in a game claiming he's unappreciated and the team won't let him be great. Imagine if Kyrie's fiancee did the same thing? This whole board would be in ashes.

""However, let's not forget that he was mentally broken for a good chunk of the season."

Again, woe is me. If he's that mentally fragile from game to game, we're in for a world of trouble. Are we not expecting our max players to have a little mental fortitude? Or just certain ones?

Jeez

She defends Kyrie, but sure does not have a problem dumping on Hayward. Jeeze is right.

[CoachBS#1]

I hope dude Kyrie gets boo by all Celtics fans the day he comes to Boston when playing for whoever, I trust you up there, worst Celtic ever!!!

[Ogaju]

I don't think he quit, but it's clear he gave up on trying to believe in his teammates. He knew they weren't going to show up so he tried to do everything himself which played directly into the Bucks' gameplan.

Its still amazing to me that people will come for Kyrie, but Gordon can pout and take 5 shots in a critical playoff game and no one says a word. Yeah, i know "but his ankle...." that doesn't effect body language and effort.

I agree completely...you have this guy still tweeting about Kyrie in the playoffs and that happened more than a month ago. No comments about Hayward’s no show.

Just look at how little reaction Jackie MacMullan’s statement about Hayward’s playing time received. She stated it was the beginning of the problems with the C’s and yet it was mostly ignored when compared to the continued demonization of Kyrie Irving. You would think Irving committed a violent crime the way some people act.

Regardless the one thing the Celtics, Boston media, and the fans can not control is how other players view the double standard between Irving and Hayward. Irving is pretty well liked by some of the best players in the game. I bet some of those players have a different viewpoint.

lol did Hayward insert himself in the starting lineup? Did Hayward pout when he was sent to the bench? Did Hayward throw his team mates under the bus? Did Hayward call the team's #1 nemesis to apologize and then tell the press about it to slight his team mates? Did Hayward  ever say he did not owe anybody anything while taking millions from the team? Did Hayward take turnaround fade away threes in the closeout game of a playoff series?

[nickagneta]

I hope dude Kyrie gets boo by all Celtics fans the day he comes to Boston when playing for whoever, I trust you up there, worst Celtic ever!!!

My prediction is he has at least one load management day off against Boston and will not even travel with the team to Boston.

Why I predict this? Since the game in which Hayward broke his leg, Kyrie's 1st game as a Celtic, Kyrie didn't play another game at Cleveland for the rest of his Celtic career.

[Ogaju]

In the coming weeks everyone who had an axe to grind with Kyrie be it in the media or affiliated with the Celtics is going to take their shot at him.  Guaranteed.  There will be more stuff like this. 

Not that he doesn't deserve it but I think people have been holding back till it was certain he's out of here.

I kinda want Kyrie to pull a Terry Rozier and do media rounds trashing everyone. If people are going to paint him as a villain despite him keeping a relatively low profile and keeping his friends/family from making comments on social media like other players, why bother being polite? Blow it all up.

maybe he does not want to lie.

[Ogaju]

I think the reporters got the okay to go forward with the information from the team with the info they had been withholding. And so, to me, that says smear campaign. If the reporters were withholding info, they most likely were told that they would be told when to go public with the information. Once told, it's a smear campaign.

Or call it damage control to give the ticket buying fans a scapegoat other than blaming those that will still be around(Ainge, Stevens, the other coaches, the remaining players) next season. Either or, it's still the same thing.

Pretty soon were going to find out Kyrie was the 2nd shooter in the JFK assassination.

If during the Bucks' series, he would have missed.

TP