Boston Globe: Kyrie quit on the Celtics in games 4 and 5

[mmmmm]

Ultimately, this is where a lack of leadership comes into play.  Most reports indicate that the locker room was quiet and full of awkward tension.  It's frustrating because the solution seems pretty straightforward from the outside looking in.  Hayward accepted the bench role like he should have.  As soon as that happened, his teammates should have collectively made an effort to help him find his confidence.  Instead, it appears that Gordon was on an island by himself, while the rest of the team was having separate conflicts with each other.

FWIW:  My impression is that Gordon and Jaylen worked very well together.   Gordon fed more of Jaylen's assisted shots than any other passer.  Further, they seemed to work very smoothly together on defensive switches.

I also don't completely buy that either of the Jays had any reason to resent Gordon.  Neither Jaylen nor Jayson lost minutes to Gordon.   Jaylen lost minutes to Morris and Smart.   Was he supposed to resent them?   

The 5-man lineups that included all three of Gordon+Jay+Jayson that did NOT include either Kyrie or Al actually performed fantastic last year.   Even the ones with 'supposedly-bad-apple' Rozier in them.   All of those lineups were net positive by large margins.

Really, the guy that seemingly got baby-fed a lot more minutes than his performance warranted was really Morris, who after his incredibly red-hot shooting in November-December cooled off dramatically (regression is real, folks) and was just horrible through Jan, Feb & March.   Yet he didn't lose his starting spot the way Gordon and Jaylen did when they started out the season in slumps.

I just don't get why Brad stuck with Morris after his hot streak wore off and he inevitably returned to the same old average guy that he has always been.    Especially when (a) both Jaylen and Jayson were playing MUCH better by then and (b) Morris isn't someone the team has a long-term commitment to.

When you talk about leadership coming into play, I think Brad clearly messed up with some of his decisions like this.   At least Brad has publicly owned that, though.  I expect he will learned a lot from this -- his first real difficult coaching year -- and be better for it.

[Green-18]

Ultimately, this is where a lack of leadership comes into play.  Most reports indicate that the locker room was quiet and full of awkward tension.  It's frustrating because the solution seems pretty straightforward from the outside looking in.  Hayward accepted the bench role like he should have.  As soon as that happened, his teammates should have collectively made an effort to help him find his confidence.  Instead, it appears that Gordon was on an island by himself, while the rest of the team was having separate conflicts with each other.

FWIW:  My impression is that Gordon and Jaylen worked very well together.   Gordon fed more of Jaylen's assisted shots than any other passer.  Further, they seemed to work very smoothly together on defensive switches.

I also don't completely buy that either of the Jays had any reason to resent Gordon.  Neither Jaylen nor Jayson lost minutes to Gordon.   Jaylen lost minutes to Morris and Smart.   Was he supposed to resent them?   

The 5-man lineups that included all three of Gordon+Jay+Jayson that did NOT include either Kyrie or Al actually performed fantastic last year.   Even the ones with 'supposedly-bad-apple' Rozier in them.   All of those lineups were net positive by large margins.

Really, the guy that seemingly got baby-fed a lot more minutes than his performance warranted was really Morris, who after his incredibly red-hot shooting in November-December cooled off dramatically (regression is real, folks) and was just horrible through Jan, Feb & March.   Yet he didn't lose his starting spot the way Gordon and Jaylen did when they started out the season in slumps.

I just don't get why Brad stuck with Morris after his hot streak wore off and he inevitably returned to the same old average guy that he has always been.    Especially when (a) both Jaylen and Jayson were playing MUCH better by then and (b) Morris isn't someone the team has a long-term commitment to.

When you talk about leadership coming into play, I think Brad clearly messed up with some of his decisions like this.   At least Brad has publicly owned that, though.  I expect he will learned a lot from this -- his first real difficult coaching year -- and be better for it.

TP, very well put.  I do believe there was general frustration over Hayward at the beginning of the season, but it certainly wasn't the primary reason for the issues that plagued the team towards the end.  Tatum wasn't really affected, and Brown got better every single month.  Tatum, Brown, and Hayward should have no issues next season. 

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

Kyrie Irving didn't quit. I watched the whole series - as well as most of the regular season.

MIL played Stellar Defense against him - didn't Bledsoe win Defensive first team? And EB showed it.

MIL knew that Kyrie was going to be the focal point and they made it a point to stop him.

The team tried but couldn't step up to help him.

Was he frustrated? You betcha. I could tell it in his body language. Quit? Heck no.

I know we want to pile on and make him look like the main reason for this team's failures this season but I never bought it and ain't buying it now or EVER.

Just stop with the hot takes.

Keep this divorce as pleasant, classy and respectful as we can. How we handle his probable departure will define some of us as a fan base.

GOOD LUCK WITH THE BASE HERE THAT LOATHES HIM!

[droopdog7]

Quit?  I doubt it.  Stink?  To high heaven.

[mmmmm]

https://twitter.com/globechadfinn/status/1143696099515019270?s=21

Boston Globes Chad Finn: "He quit in Games 4 and 5, and I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a thing like it. He literally was not playing defense. His disobeyed the coach and pretended to guard Giannis. Borderline insubordinate. You can make excuses, but Celtics fans I know saw what he did."

In Game 4 especially, Kyrie's ball-possession time and touches went through the roof.  He was never a ball-hog type PG before.  In fact, he's always well behind the leaders in ball-dominance like Harden, John Wall, Westbrook. 

But in this series and in that game in particular he just wouldn't let anyone else touch the ball.    In particular, he seemed to 'ice out' Hayward, who only touched the ball a tiny 27 touches in that critical game DESPITE playing almost 27 minutes.   That's half the rate of touches per game that Gordon was averaging down the stretch of the last few games of the regular season.  People wondering why Gordon took just 5 shots -- well, there is your answer.

But it should be pointed out that Kyrie's bizarre, weirdly different offense and atrocious defense wasn't just in Games 4 & 5.

This video breaks down Kyrie's play mainly in Game 3 and a little in Game 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUBsqfkBmYE

Caution:  Some scenes in this are not suitable for children.   There is some frighteningly ugly basketball on display.

This one includes plays from Game 4 as well, but focuses mostly on the bad offense.  It does include some defensive plays near the end.  Overlaps with a lot of the plays in the above.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVLZyLU7pnk

There is another vid somewhere that focuses just on Kyrie's defense in this series (including the later games) that floated around for a bit that is even more disturbing.  I can't seem to find it yet.  If I do I'll post it.  Or if anyone else has it already, please share.

Folks should just watch these and decide for themselves if it was a case of "quit" or not.

[PhoSita]

If anyone thinks that this info, the info regarding his relationships on the team, the info regarding the team being "ghosted", the info that #11 was available to the rookies and other such stuff isn't coming out from the team as damage control over Kyrie's leaving, they would be fooling themselves.

I am not saying the information isn't true, it most likely is, but since Ainge now feels Kyrie is gone, he is letting the fandom and season ticket buyers know, not through him but by "leaks", what a real pain in the ass and major cancer Kyrie was behind the scenes. He is definitely trying to soften the blow of Kyrie's leaving by letting everyone know what a problem Kyrie is/was.

Another way you could spin this is that the information that is coming out now was held back all this time because the team still hoped that the would come back.

Now that it's clear he's gone, the team is not going to hold that stuff back anymore.  It doesn't benefit them to hold back the negative stuff, so why would they?


The negative reports about Kyrie aren't based on info that was just discovered last week.  The team and the reporters around it have known this stuff for months.  Now that Kyrie is gone -- and not just gone, but has basically thumbed his nose at the team on his way out -- they're going to open the floodgates so people know exactly what sort of guy Kyrie was in Boston.

[Donoghus]

If anyone thinks that this info, the info regarding his relationships on the team, the info regarding the team being "ghosted", the info that #11 was available to the rookies and other such stuff isn't coming out from the team as damage control over Kyrie's leaving, they would be fooling themselves.

I am not saying the information isn't true, it most likely is, but since Ainge now feels Kyrie is gone, he is letting the fandom and season ticket buyers know, not through him but by "leaks", what a real pain in the ass and major cancer Kyrie was behind the scenes. He is definitely trying to soften the blow of Kyrie's leaving by letting everyone know what a problem Kyrie is/was.

Another way you could spin this is that the information that is coming out now was held back all this time because the team still hoped that the would come back.

Now that it's clear he's gone, the team is not going to hold that stuff back anymore.  It doesn't benefit them to hold back the negative stuff, so why would they?


The negative reports about Kyrie aren't based on info that was just discovered last week.  The team and the reporters around it have known this stuff for months.  Now that Kyrie is gone -- and not just gone, but has basically thumbed his nose at the team on his way out -- they're going to open the floodgates so people know exactly what sort of guy Kyrie was in Boston.

I believe that's called a "smear" campaign.

The Red Sox via the Boston Globe are notorious for this.

[nickagneta]

If anyone thinks that this info, the info regarding his relationships on the team, the info regarding the team being "ghosted", the info that #11 was available to the rookies and other such stuff isn't coming out from the team as damage control over Kyrie's leaving, they would be fooling themselves.

I am not saying the information isn't true, it most likely is, but since Ainge now feels Kyrie is gone, he is letting the fandom and season ticket buyers know, not through him but by "leaks", what a real pain in the ass and major cancer Kyrie was behind the scenes. He is definitely trying to soften the blow of Kyrie's leaving by letting everyone know what a problem Kyrie is/was.

Another way you could spin this is that the information that is coming out now was held back all this time because the team still hoped that the would come back.

Now that it's clear he's gone, the team is not going to hold that stuff back anymore.  It doesn't benefit them to hold back the negative stuff, so why would they?


The negative reports about Kyrie aren't based on info that was just discovered last week.  The team and the reporters around it have known this stuff for months.  Now that Kyrie is gone -- and not just gone, but has basically thumbed his nose at the team on his way out -- they're going to open the floodgates so people know exactly what sort of guy Kyrie was in Boston.

I believe that's called a "smear" campaign.

The Red Sox via the Boston Globe are notorious for this.

Yup, and I have no doubt that is what's happening now with the Celtics.

[wiley]

Ultimately, this is where a lack of leadership comes into play.  Most reports indicate that the locker room was quiet and full of awkward tension.  It's frustrating because the solution seems pretty straightforward from the outside looking in.  Hayward accepted the bench role like he should have.  As soon as that happened, his teammates should have collectively made an effort to help him find his confidence.  Instead, it appears that Gordon was on an island by himself, while the rest of the team was having separate conflicts with each other.

FWIW:  My impression is that Gordon and Jaylen worked very well together.   Gordon fed more of Jaylen's assisted shots than any other passer.  Further, they seemed to work very smoothly together on defensive switches.

I also don't completely buy that either of the Jays had any reason to resent Gordon.  Neither Jaylen nor Jayson lost minutes to Gordon.   Jaylen lost minutes to Morris and Smart.   Was he supposed to resent them?   

The 5-man lineups that included all three of Gordon+Jay+Jayson that did NOT include either Kyrie or Al actually performed fantastic last year.   Even the ones with 'supposedly-bad-apple' Rozier in them.   All of those lineups were net positive by large margins.

Really, the guy that seemingly got baby-fed a lot more minutes than his performance warranted was really Morris, who after his incredibly red-hot shooting in November-December cooled off dramatically (regression is real, folks) and was just horrible through Jan, Feb & March.   Yet he didn't lose his starting spot the way Gordon and Jaylen did when they started out the season in slumps.

I just don't get why Brad stuck with Morris after his hot streak wore off and he inevitably returned to the same old average guy that he has always been.    Especially when (a) both Jaylen and Jayson were playing MUCH better by then and (b) Morris isn't someone the team has a long-term commitment to.

When you talk about leadership coming into play, I think Brad clearly messed up with some of his decisions like this.   At least Brad has publicly owned that, though.  I expect he will learned a lot from this -- his first real difficult coaching year -- and be better for it.

Excellent post in all respects!  I saw nothing but good vibes between Brown and Hayward from about a quarter of the season in until the end.  Tatum and Hayward too seemed to be enjoying each other.  If Brown was upset in the beginning he got over it in mature and respectable fashion, and we don't know if we was upset at Hayward or not (maybe just upset at Brad or upset in general at the situation).  IMO Brown was one of the top 3 players on the team at the end.  And teammates like playing with Gordon because he is an unselfish player. 

If Brown is not a starter I'll be disappointed.  I even think he should start over Tatum if it came down to those two.  But IMO Hayward should continue coming off the bench, and should be an incredible bench asset this year.  There is NO REASON to try to force Hayward back to his best year in Utah, when you've got studs like Tatum and Brown on the team.  Forget the salary....sh...t happens, things change, injuries do their damage.  If Hayward does start, I don't want it to be instead of Brown. 

I hope for one of the following starting units:

A.
Smart/Rozier/Or free agent
Brown
Tatum
Hayward
Hulk


B.
PG stud
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Hulk

C.
Rozier
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Hullk


Basically, if Hayward is to start it should be at PF next to a space eating center....Otherwise he should be backing up at SF.  And he should not be starting unless Brown is also starting.  I could tolerate Hayward starting instead of Smart, but do like Smart as a starter as well. 


People complaining about the criticism of Kyrie by saying why doesn't Hayward get more criticism? LOL!
Different animals....one guy accepted a bench role and is not burdened by superstardom and the expectation that come with it, and went an entire year without playing.  Another left Lebron to be the man, IS burdened by superstardom, and claimed the C's couldn't be beat because he was on the team, and then....when the going got rough....he quit. 

I saw Hayward trashed so much thoughout the year...I had to defend him a couple of times...this despite thinking he should not be starting until he is ALL the way back (if he can get there).

[PhoSita]

I believe that's called a "smear" campaign.

The Red Sox via the Boston Globe are notorious for this.

You can call it that.

I'm just pointing out that this "smear" campaign is not a bunch of made up stuff.

You can focus on the fact that they're only releasing the info now.

But part of this is that they had this information all along.  The Celtics were dealing with Kyrie all this time, they just had reason to hold back the negative stuff because they still hoped to salvage the relationship.



There's no particular reason why the Celtics should remain quiet regarding how much of a problem a guy was once he's torched the bridge.


"Smear campaign" to me implies that the Celts are contacting people like Finn and MacMullan and saying, "Hey, you should publish a story talking about how Kyrie did X, Y, & Z."


When in reality I think the way it goes is that Finn, Bulpett, MacMullan, etc are reporters.  Their job is to cultivate sources and gather information about what's going on with the team.  But they also want to protect their access.  So when they find out sensitive info they don't just go ahead and publish it.  They talk to people associated with the team, and if the team prefers they hold off on publishing that stuff unless / until things turn sour, maybe they do so in order to preserve that valuable relationship.


Once the guy is out the door, and especially if he's shown himself to be a real horse's behind in doing so, the team lets the reporters know "Hey, go ahead and publish whatever you want."


That's a little different than a "smear campaign," if you ask me.

[nickagneta]

I think the reporters got the okay to go forward with the information from the team with the info they had been withholding. And so, to me, that says smear campaign. If the reporters were withholding info, they most likely were told that they would be told when to go public with the information. Once told, it's a smear campaign.

Or call it damage control to give the ticket buying fans a scapegoat other than blaming those that will still be around(Ainge, Stevens, the other coaches, the remaining players) next season. Either or, it's still the same thing.

[PhoSita]

I think the reporters got the okay to go forward with the information from the team with the info they had been withholding. And so, to me, that says smear campaign. If the reporters were withholding info, they most likely were told that they would be told when to go public with the information. Once told, it's a smear campaign.

Or call it damage control to give the ticket buying fans a scapegoat other than blaming those that will still be around(Ainge, Stevens, the other coaches, the remaining players) next season. Either or, it's still the same thing.

I guess you can call it what you want.


Bottom line for me is I have no reason to think any of the info that's coming out is inaccurate. 


What responsibility or obligation does the team have to withhold negative information about a player once that player is gone?


They're not "smearing" Horford right now.  Horford was a model teammate and a leader on the team.  He was a great Celtic in his short time here.  If the team was releasing a bunch of negative info about Horford, that would be a different situation.


Why should the Celtics do Kyrie any favors?  Kyrie really put the Celts in a bad spot with his behavior over the last year.

[Kuberski33]

In the coming weeks everyone who had an axe to grind with Kyrie be it in the media or affiliated with the Celtics is going to take their shot at him.  Guaranteed.  There will be more stuff like this. 

Not that he doesn't deserve it but I think people have been holding back till it was certain he's out of here.

[RJ87]

In the coming weeks everyone who had an axe to grind with Kyrie be it in the media or affiliated with the Celtics is going to take their shot at him.  Guaranteed.  There will be more stuff like this. 

Not that he doesn't deserve it but I think people have been holding back till it was certain he's out of here.

I kinda want Kyrie to pull a Terry Rozier and do media rounds trashing everyone. If people are going to paint him as a villain despite him keeping a relatively low profile and keeping his friends/family from making comments on social media like other players, why bother being polite? Blow it all up.

[Sketch5]

Ultimately, this is where a lack of leadership comes into play.  Most reports indicate that the locker room was quiet and full of awkward tension.  It's frustrating because the solution seems pretty straightforward from the outside looking in.  Hayward accepted the bench role like he should have.  As soon as that happened, his teammates should have collectively made an effort to help him find his confidence.  Instead, it appears that Gordon was on an island by himself, while the rest of the team was having separate conflicts with each other.

FWIW:  My impression is that Gordon and Jaylen worked very well together.   Gordon fed more of Jaylen's assisted shots than any other passer.  Further, they seemed to work very smoothly together on defensive switches.

I also don't completely buy that either of the Jays had any reason to resent Gordon.  Neither Jaylen nor Jayson lost minutes to Gordon.   Jaylen lost minutes to Morris and Smart.   Was he supposed to resent them?   

The 5-man lineups that included all three of Gordon+Jay+Jayson that did NOT include either Kyrie or Al actually performed fantastic last year.   Even the ones with 'supposedly-bad-apple' Rozier in them.   All of those lineups were net positive by large margins.

Really, the guy that seemingly got baby-fed a lot more minutes than his performance warranted was really Morris, who after his incredibly red-hot shooting in November-December cooled off dramatically (regression is real, folks) and was just horrible through Jan, Feb & March.   Yet he didn't lose his starting spot the way Gordon and Jaylen did when they started out the season in slumps.

I just don't get why Brad stuck with Morris after his hot streak wore off and he inevitably returned to the same old average guy that he has always been.    Especially when (a) both Jaylen and Jayson were playing MUCH better by then and (b) Morris isn't someone the team has a long-term commitment to.

When you talk about leadership coming into play, I think Brad clearly messed up with some of his decisions like this.   At least Brad has publicly owned that, though.  I expect he will learned a lot from this -- his first real difficult coaching year -- and be better for it.

Excellent post in all respects!  I saw nothing but good vibes between Brown and Hayward from about a quarter of the season in until the end.  Tatum and Hayward too seemed to be enjoying each other.  If Brown was upset in the beginning he got over it in mature and respectable fashion, and we don't know if we was upset at Hayward or not (maybe just upset at Brad or upset in general at the situation).  IMO Brown was one of the top 3 players on the team at the end.  And teammates like playing with Gordon because he is an unselfish player. 

If Brown is not a starter I'll be disappointed.  I even think he should start over Tatum if it came down to those two.  But IMO Hayward should continue coming off the bench, and should be an incredible bench asset this year.  There is NO REASON to try to force Hayward back to his best year in Utah, when you've got studs like Tatum and Brown on the team.  Forget the salary....sh...t happens, things change, injuries do their damage.  If Hayward does start, I don't want it to be instead of Brown. 

I hope for one of the following starting units:

A.
Smart/Rozier/Or free agent
Brown
Tatum
Hayward
Hulk


B.
PG stud
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Hulk

C.
Rozier
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Hullk


Basically, if Hayward is to start it should be at PF next to a space eating center....Otherwise he should be backing up at SF.  And he should not be starting unless Brown is also starting.  I could tolerate Hayward starting instead of Smart, but do like Smart as a starter as well. 


People complaining about the criticism of Kyrie by saying why doesn't Hayward get more criticism? LOL!
Different animals....one guy accepted a bench role and is not burdened by superstardom and the expectation that come with it, and went an entire year without playing.  Another left Lebron to be the man, IS burdened by superstardom, and claimed the C's couldn't be beat because he was on the team, and then....when the going got rough....he quit. 

I saw Hayward trashed so much thoughout the year...I had to defend him a couple of times...this despite thinking he should not be starting until he is ALL the way back (if he can get there).

Wait....

We're in the market for Hylk?

SWEET!