Romeo Langford(merged threads)

[W8ting2McHale]

Yeah, young kids adopt a lot of bad habits when they start shooting from distance too soon. Habits that don’t get corrected in high school because the kid’s a star and he or she is scoring, so don’t fix what isn’t broken, until it is.

The fact that Romeo’s shot was broken wasn’t exposed in high school, but it was in college, and certainly would have been in the pros. As mentioned earlier, he’s been shooting like this since grade school, so it won’t be a quick fix, and he has to trust that what got him this far isn’t good enough and he needs to train to correct it. He seems to understand that and is doing it, but it’s going to take time, just like a pitcher that’s been relying on his fastball needs to add a second and third pitch to make it in the majors, otherwise he’s either stuck in the bullpen or 2A.

[hwangjini_1]

Don't put alot of faith in opinions ,   Young had a beautiful release and he could not hit a bull in the butt during a game.

if he can hit the shots , i don't care how he does it.  he can stand on his head for all I care. 

Beside nobody can out shoot % the Tacko Mania man !   

just put up points on the board thats all.

i agree with your sentiments, but the bolded is exactly the point isnt it? as it now stands, romeo can NOT hit his shots from outside. he has a lot of talent and can score inside, ala evan turner.

if romeo develops a credible outside shot he has the potential to be a very good player.

[droopdog7]

Romeo has some funky mechanics to be sure.  And if anyone has been paying attention, these things are generally not all that fixable.  That said, thumb flicking isn't generally an issue judging by the fact that both Kyrie and Steph Curry flick the ball with their thumb.

[footey]

Don't put alot of faith in opinions ,   Young had a beautiful release and he could not hit a bull in the butt during a game.

if he can hit the shots , i don't care how he does it.  he can stand on his head for all I care. 

Beside nobody can out shoot % the Tacko Mania man !   

just put up points on the board thats all.

Yeah, well, he shot 25% last year from 3. That is pretty bad for a lottery "shooting" guard.   So I don't think your point works here, SA.

[nickagneta]

Don't put alot of faith in opinions ,   Young had a beautiful release and he could not hit a bull in the butt during a game.

if he can hit the shots , i don't care how he does it.  he can stand on his head for all I care. 

Beside nobody can out shoot % the Tacko Mania man !   

just put up points on the board thats all.

Yeah, well, he shot 25% last year from 3. That is pretty bad for a lottery "shooting" guard.   So I don't think your point works here, SA.

He also played through a badly hurting hand all year, so I think we will need to judge him more going forward than how he shot in his one year in college.

[Somebody]

Not a big fan of Carlin. His over abundant use of very short video clips to try to prove that what he is saying is happening all the time drives me nuts, though I should say, this seems to be all the rage on blogs with people trying to play scouts.

Then would you like him throwing a whole game or compilation out there? I don't know much about Carlin, but short clips are usually posted to indicate a trend out of the extensive tape the person is watching, they've got much more material than those short clips. Not to say that you should take their word for it 100%, but I don't think dismissing them as trying to play scouts should be the way to go. They've watched as much (if not way more) tape as an invested NBA fan and base their conclusions on those observations.

[nickagneta]

Not a big fan of Carlin. His over abundant use of very short video clips to try to prove that what he is saying is happening all the time drives me nuts, though I should say, this seems to be all the rage on blogs with people trying to play scouts.

Then would you like him throwing a whole game or compilation out there? I don't know much about Carlin, but short clips are usually posted to indicate a trend out of the extensive tape the person is watching, they've got much more material than those short clips. Not to say that you should take their word for it 100%, but I don't think dismissing them as trying to play scouts should be the way to go. They've watched as much (if not way more) tape as an invested NBA fan and base their conclusions on those observations.

My experience with the whole short clip thing is that I have found that way, way, way too many times these blogger scout types tend to come to conclusions first then find clips to prove their point and whether the conclusion is right or wrong....and again, I find lots have wrong conclusions. It's no different than when a few posters here made definitive statements about players then showed a YouTube clip of video of the player doing what they said and tried to play off that that was definitive proof the player did something all the time when they clearly didn't.

[Somebody]

Not a big fan of Carlin. His over abundant use of very short video clips to try to prove that what he is saying is happening all the time drives me nuts, though I should say, this seems to be all the rage on blogs with people trying to play scouts.

Then would you like him throwing a whole game or compilation out there? I don't know much about Carlin, but short clips are usually posted to indicate a trend out of the extensive tape the person is watching, they've got much more material than those short clips. Not to say that you should take their word for it 100%, but I don't think dismissing them as trying to play scouts should be the way to go. They've watched as much (if not way more) tape as an invested NBA fan and base their conclusions on those observations.

My experience with the whole short clip thing is that I have found that way, way, way too many times these blogger scout types tend to come to conclusions first then find clips to prove their point and whether the conclusion is right or wrong....and again, I find lots have wrong conclusions. It's no different than when a few posters here made definitive statements about players then showed a YouTube clip of video of the player doing what they said and tried to play off that that was definitive proof the player did something all the time when they clearly didn't.

I won't deny that some bloggers do that, but I've seen you rail on even the best of such bloggers who pore through tons of tape and have a good reputation on sites like RealGM due to their body of work (eg. Ben Taylor of Backpicks), and are unlikely to do what you have suggested. I'm more inclined to believe that you might have a bias of your own rather than doubt all bloggers being faulty by throwing out short clips. I do agree with your point about posters throwing out definitive statements based on a few cherry picked clips though.

[nickagneta]

Not a big fan of Carlin. His over abundant use of very short video clips to try to prove that what he is saying is happening all the time drives me nuts, though I should say, this seems to be all the rage on blogs with people trying to play scouts.

Then would you like him throwing a whole game or compilation out there? I don't know much about Carlin, but short clips are usually posted to indicate a trend out of the extensive tape the person is watching, they've got much more material than those short clips. Not to say that you should take their word for it 100%, but I don't think dismissing them as trying to play scouts should be the way to go. They've watched as much (if not way more) tape as an invested NBA fan and base their conclusions on those observations.

My experience with the whole short clip thing is that I have found that way, way, way too many times these blogger scout types tend to come to conclusions first then find clips to prove their point and whether the conclusion is right or wrong....and again, I find lots have wrong conclusions. It's no different than when a few posters here made definitive statements about players then showed a YouTube clip of video of the player doing what they said and tried to play off that that was definitive proof the player did something all the time when they clearly didn't.

I won't deny that some bloggers do that, but I've seen you rail on even the best of such bloggers who pore through tons of tape and have a good reputation on sites like RealGM due to their body of work (eg. Ben Taylor of Backpicks), and are unlikely to do what you have suggested. I'm more inclined to believe that you might have a bias of your own rather than doubt all bloggers being faulty by throwing out short clips. I do agree with your point about posters throwing out definitive statements based on a few cherry picked clips though.

Have no idea who Ben Taylor is and never railed against him, unless he is Max Carlin or has some username here I don't know about.

[Somebody]

Not a big fan of Carlin. His over abundant use of very short video clips to try to prove that what he is saying is happening all the time drives me nuts, though I should say, this seems to be all the rage on blogs with people trying to play scouts.

Then would you like him throwing a whole game or compilation out there? I don't know much about Carlin, but short clips are usually posted to indicate a trend out of the extensive tape the person is watching, they've got much more material than those short clips. Not to say that you should take their word for it 100%, but I don't think dismissing them as trying to play scouts should be the way to go. They've watched as much (if not way more) tape as an invested NBA fan and base their conclusions on those observations.

My experience with the whole short clip thing is that I have found that way, way, way too many times these blogger scout types tend to come to conclusions first then find clips to prove their point and whether the conclusion is right or wrong....and again, I find lots have wrong conclusions. It's no different than when a few posters here made definitive statements about players then showed a YouTube clip of video of the player doing what they said and tried to play off that that was definitive proof the player did something all the time when they clearly didn't.

I won't deny that some bloggers do that, but I've seen you rail on even the best of such bloggers who pore through tons of tape and have a good reputation on sites like RealGM due to their body of work (eg. Ben Taylor of Backpicks), and are unlikely to do what you have suggested. I'm more inclined to believe that you might have a bias of your own rather than doubt all bloggers being faulty by throwing out short clips. I do agree with your point about posters throwing out definitive statements based on a few cherry picked clips though.

Have no idea who Ben Taylor is and never railed against him, unless he is Max Carlin or has some username here I don't know about.

Well you did say that you think his website is garbage and is very much wrong when it comes to analysing players when he's earned praise from people like Zach Lowe with his approach.

[footey]

Not a big fan of Carlin. His over abundant use of very short video clips to try to prove that what he is saying is happening all the time drives me nuts, though I should say, this seems to be all the rage on blogs with people trying to play scouts.

Then would you like him throwing a whole game or compilation out there? I don't know much about Carlin, but short clips are usually posted to indicate a trend out of the extensive tape the person is watching, they've got much more material than those short clips. Not to say that you should take their word for it 100%, but I don't think dismissing them as trying to play scouts should be the way to go. They've watched as much (if not way more) tape as an invested NBA fan and base their conclusions on those observations.

My experience with the whole short clip thing is that I have found that way, way, way too many times these blogger scout types tend to come to conclusions first then find clips to prove their point and whether the conclusion is right or wrong....and again, I find lots have wrong conclusions. It's no different than when a few posters here made definitive statements about players then showed a YouTube clip of video of the player doing what they said and tried to play off that that was definitive proof the player did something all the time when they clearly didn't.

The video doesn't lie, Nick.  There is video going back to his high school days that show you how he shoots the ball. 

I think Romeo has a gift for getting to the hoop and finishing plays through contact, something this team sorely lacked last season. But I don't think he will be a threat from deep over the long term unless he fixes his shot. And it will take time.

[Hoopvortex]

Looking at the clips I’ve seen from Training Camp, I’d say I see most of the issues that Carlin mentions.

One that I do NOT see is the elbow going lateral. Whatever other issues there are, getting wrist + elbow + shoulder lined up consistently can overcome other quirks and habits.

Yes, he’s definitely flexing the elbow a lot, meaning that it’s got to travel a long way, that the elbow and forearm muscles play a bigger role in the shot - and there’s therefore less steadying from the legs, spine, and shoulder girdle. It would be telling to track his effectiveness as he gets fatigued, as fatigue and contact are more likely to disturb a shot like his.

Bringing the ball over to the left is an issue for more than one reason. He partly corrects for it by bringing his right shoulder forward, meaning he’s got to do more adjusting with his wrist, etc. (so that the shot isn’t always wide left). But it’s not as drastic a move as, say, Lonzo Ball’s, and no worse than Vincent Poirier, btw, who is shown calmly sinking one corner three after another in a recent TC video.

Looking at a bigger picture, the arc of his jumper is a thing of beauty, and his touch is nice and soft, and finely tuned. Rebuilding a jump shot is a huge deal and might not pay off with results this season, but work and being coachable should get him a consistent, effective shot in the near-future.

I’m cautiously optimistic about his future; but how he fits in this season is hard to see.

[IDreamCeltics]

Danny's on record saying anyone can learn to shoot.  I don't know what the evidence for this is (maybe Aaron Baynes?) but the Celtics certainly seem to draft with this philosophy in mind.  Langford's jumper looks awful to me, but perhaps there's a shot coach out there who can see the silver lining in it. 

[Celtics4ever]

The recent video clips Carlin used were just in practice.  But again, Romeo has probably taken more shots in a week then I've taken in my life, so I'll defer to people with more playing experience.

These threads are always so funny, I bet over half the guys in it never shot well in their lives or even made to College to play hoops but "their Shot experts." 

I watched this video:   https://twitter.com/GwashburnGlobe/status/1179084536413589504/video/1

The thing is a guy can have a non perfect shot and still put in the hole sometimes.   Kevin Martin's shots was horrific but he could shoot as an example

I noticed two things about his shot less obvious than the "thumbing the ball" and I shot over 51% from downtown the last year (though I only took  60 threes that year) I played in 1995 for an Army Team in Europe.
1)When he follow through correctly, he shoots better but when he follow through veers to fight so does his shot.   (25 secs in)
2) I don't care for the bringing the legs together after he jumps, which twists his hip and can cause extra motion that is not needed. ( 1st shot he takes)

I know they are working and rebuilding his shot but he does not have good muscle memory yet and there is a lot of variety from shot to shot.   It will come in time, Lord only knows how much he altered his shot last year to protect that thumb ligament.  But until the muscle memory gets there and he can do it at game speed, I think the video I watched was useless in terms of predicating in game shooting.

Danny's on record saying anyone can learn to shoot.

Where 's the Beeff?  Basic shooting principles.

Balance
Eyes on Target
Elbow
Follow through Properly
Feet

Now advanced shooters can shoot off balance, and still make it but a lot of them square up at some point of their delivery of the shot.

[Hoopvortex]

The thing is a guy can have a non perfect shot and still put in the hole sometimes.   Kevin Martin's shots was horrific but he could shoot as an example

Good point.

Kevin Martin is a great example of a shooter who brings the ball way over to the left (farther than Romeo), in a weird corkscrew motion - who was still highly effective.

2) I don't care for the bringing the legs together after he jumps, which twists his hip and can cause extra motion that is not needed. ( 1st shot he takes)

There's plenty of extra motion, that's for sure.

I'd quibble that bringing his legs together is a result, not a cause, of bringing his right hip forward; and that bringing his right hip forward is of a piece with bringing the ball over to his left. He does not square up, he shoots with both right shoulder and right hip in front.