Author Topic: Woj: Brooklyn trades Crabbe and two 1sts to Atlanta for Prince and a 2nd  (Read 24074 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline MaxAMillion

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 458
  • Tommy Points: 16
Hey Cap people, if Brooklyn renounces Russell's rights and he becomes a UFA would there be anything stopping us going after him if Kyrie walks?

Yeah, being able to pay him. We could do a S&T with Irving (counts for $20.1M), Yabusele, and pick(s) for a S&T of Russell (counts for $27.5M), but that isn't going to happen.

Anyway, this blows if you're a logical Cs fan and don't want to lose a top 15 player in his prime for nothing. For the rest of you guys, I guess you'll get what you are wishing for.

Exactly...they didn't want him so he leaves (I would do the same thing if I were Irving). At least those fans will have Hayward to cheer for.

Offline celticsclay

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16176
  • Tommy Points: 1407
Some people worry about their wife cheating in them so much distance develops and they eventually do end up cheating

Offline jambr380

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13751
  • Tommy Points: 2061
  • Sometimes there's no sane reason for optimism
I don't think Boston returns to 40 wins without Kyrie. I actually think Boston will be ok. They will play team basketball and be better on defense.

Kyrie does not fit Brad Stevens system. He does not play team basketball and he is a liability on defense.

Cs won't be flashy but they will play harder. I also think that Hayward will return to his Utah numbers and he will be an All Star.

My only question is what do they do with the draft picks.

I'm with you. I think a lot of celtics fans are sleeping on our players

I just think Kyrie demanded so much of the attention that guys had to defer. This created some serious rifts on this team.

I actually think it's more Hayward that took attention and touches away and created rifts. I don't think Kyrie demanded any more attention this year than he did last year when he played his 60 games. It was really Hayward coming in that disrupted everything.

Yeah, but it's against the rules to rag on Gordon. Even though it's just stating the obvious with him at this point, people get super sensitive about it. Nevermind the fact that Brad gives him more leeway than other guys and maybe it was the clear favoritism that upset the dynamic in the locker room. But no no. It's all Kyrie.

What is with people and Hayward? We get it, he wasn't a superstar this season, but he played pretty well. He moved the ball, was reasonably efficient/productive, and only took like 8 shots/game. Just because other players had their panties in a bunch over his presence doesn't mean he was the real problem. In fact, he wasn't a problem at all. This narrative is lame and lazy.

It is becoming quite obvious that the worst thing that could have happened to our team's future was making it to game 7 of the ECF. If we had just lost in round 1 to the Bucks like we should have, players would have better known their roles.

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 37780
  • Tommy Points: 3030
I don't think Boston returns to 40 wins without Kyrie. I actually think Boston will be ok. They will play team basketball and be better on defense.

Kyrie does not fit Brad Stevens system. He does not play team basketball and he is a liability on defense.

Cs won't be flashy but they will play harder. I also think that Hayward will return to his Utah numbers and he will be an All Star.

My only question is what do they do with the draft picks.

I'm with you. I think a lot of celtics fans are sleeping on our players

I just think Kyrie demanded so much of the attention that guys had to defer. This created some serious rifts on this team.

I actually think it's more Hayward that took attention and touches away and created rifts. I don't think Kyrie demanded any more attention this year than he did last year when he played his 60 games. It was really Hayward coming in that disrupted everything.

Brad needed to sit Hayward when he came into the game cold. You could tell in the first few minutes he was in weather he was going to be aggressive or not. Hayward was not earning his minutes and neither was Rozier.

yup....i noticed that about Hayward too....about his early game play ....his confidence was soooooooo shakey .  Great Paragraph Liam !

Offline MaxAMillion

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 458
  • Tommy Points: 16
Well, if it’s Irving and Durant to Brooklyn, I get it and can see him moving there, though that’s clearly still not the best team in the East. I think they’re still behind both Toronto and Milwaukee and right there in that grouping with Philly, Boston, and Indiana, though likely the best of that group dependent upon what everyone else does.

Otherwise, what would make Brooklyn more desirable than Boston? Outside of him being spiteful at Boston and Brooklyn being a bigger market, it makes no sense for him to go there if he’s wanting to win.

And that’s why I’ll be fine moving on from Kyrie if he goes to one of the NYK teams by himself. All of his talk about staying here, wanting his name in the rafters, blah, blah, blah, will all prove to be just hollow talk, demonstrating that his head isn’t in the right place to begin with and he’s not the one to lead us to banner 18.

Absolutely no need to stay where he is hated by fans and media. I wouldn't want to stay either.

Offline celticsclay

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16176
  • Tommy Points: 1407
Well, if it’s Irving and Durant to Brooklyn, I get it and can see him moving there, though that’s clearly still not the best team in the East. I think they’re still behind both Toronto and Milwaukee and right there in that grouping with Philly, Boston, and Indiana, though likely the best of that group dependent upon what everyone else does.

Otherwise, what would make Brooklyn more desirable than Boston? Outside of him being spiteful at Boston and Brooklyn being a bigger market, it makes no sense for him to go there if he’s wanting to win.

And that’s why I’ll be fine moving on from Kyrie if he goes to one of the NYK teams by himself. All of his talk about staying here, wanting his name in the rafters, blah, blah, blah, will all prove to be just hollow talk, demonstrating that his head isn’t in the right place to begin with and he’s not the one to lead us to banner 18.
The Nets won 7 less games than Boston this year and that is with LeVert playing only 40 games.  Before his injury LeVert liked a real monster in the making.  Russell came into his own this year.  Allen looks like a real star in the making down low.  RHJ is 24, Dinwiddie just turned 26, and Harris is only 27.  They just added Prince who is 25.  There is a lot of young talent on that team.  More than Boston (though Tatum certainly has the highest ceiling, he isn't currently as good as Russell is right now).  Boston obviously has Horford and Hayward, but Hayward isn't back yet and may never be and Horford is getting old.  In other words, Irving might believe that the Nets are set up to win far longer than Boston is and he might not be wrong.

7 games is a real lot. We won 8 less than the warriors lol. 

Offline celticsclay

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16176
  • Tommy Points: 1407
Well, if it’s Irving and Durant to Brooklyn, I get it and can see him moving there, though that’s clearly still not the best team in the East. I think they’re still behind both Toronto and Milwaukee and right there in that grouping with Philly, Boston, and Indiana, though likely the best of that group dependent upon what everyone else does.

Otherwise, what would make Brooklyn more desirable than Boston? Outside of him being spiteful at Boston and Brooklyn being a bigger market, it makes no sense for him to go there if he’s wanting to win.

And that’s why I’ll be fine moving on from Kyrie if he goes to one of the NYK teams by himself. All of his talk about staying here, wanting his name in the rafters, blah, blah, blah, will all prove to be just hollow talk, demonstrating that his head isn’t in the right place to begin with and he’s not the one to lead us to banner 18.
The Nets won 7 less games than Boston this year and that is with LeVert playing only 40 games.  Before his injury LeVert liked a real monster in the making.  Russell came into his own this year.  Allen looks like a real star in the making down low.  RHJ is 24, Dinwiddie just turned 26, and Harris is only 27.  They just added Prince who is 25.  There is a lot of young talent on that team.  More than Boston (though Tatum certainly has the highest ceiling, he isn't currently as good as Russell is right now).  Boston obviously has Horford and Hayward, but Hayward isn't back yet and may never be and Horford is getting old.  In other words, Irving might believe that the Nets are set up to win far longer than Boston is and he might not be wrong.

Yeah, that is some complete, grade-A bologna, Moranis lol

Quantity of talent =/= quality of talent. Not counting Russell, because it makes no sense to pair him and Kyrie and that isn’t happening, the overall talent level may be close to equal due to Brooklyn having more overall younger guys, but the top-end talent is dominated by Boston.

Tatum and Brown are clearly the best of that bunch while also being the youngest and not even near their prime, and to be honest it’s not even that close. Top-end talent wins in this league, and just because a team has a similar cumulative amount of talent does not mean they’re in the same boat as a team with top-end talent (see Celtics from 2015 - 2017).

And all that is not even considering the fact that we have two former All-Stars in Horford abd Hayward, significant draft capital, and the best chance at AD moving forward.

So, no, to any logically thinking person those situations are not anywhere close together. Granted, Kyrie has not always been the most logical person, so...

Well said potter. I had the same reaction.

Offline ozgod

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18745
  • Tommy Points: 1527
I don't think Boston returns to 40 wins without Kyrie. I actually think Boston will be ok. They will play team basketball and be better on defense.

Kyrie does not fit Brad Stevens system. He does not play team basketball and he is a liability on defense.

Cs won't be flashy but they will play harder. I also think that Hayward will return to his Utah numbers and he will be an All Star.

My only question is what do they do with the draft picks.

I'm with you. I think a lot of celtics fans are sleeping on our players

I just think Kyrie demanded so much of the attention that guys had to defer. This created some serious rifts on this team.

I actually think it's more Hayward that took attention and touches away and created rifts. I don't think Kyrie demanded any more attention this year than he did last year when he played his 60 games. It was really Hayward coming in that disrupted everything.

Yeah, but it's against the rules to rag on Gordon. Even though it's just stating the obvious with him at this point, people get super sensitive about it. Nevermind the fact that Brad gives him more leeway than other guys and maybe it was the clear favoritism that upset the dynamic in the locker room. But no no. It's all Kyrie.

I don't think it's ragging on Gordon so much as accepting the reality that his arrival disrupted the team much more than Kyrie's return did, because of how far they went without him the year before. But it wasn't just him either, particularly once he went to the bench and was playing 20-24 min. Mook and Smart were the ones who took Jaylen's starting spot.

Problems like what happened to us this year are usually caused by a multitude of factors...usually one or two triggers and a whole bunch of others that cascade off that.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Offline RJ87

  • NCE
  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11954
  • Tommy Points: 1431
  • Let's Go Celtics!
I don't think Boston returns to 40 wins without Kyrie. I actually think Boston will be ok. They will play team basketball and be better on defense.

Kyrie does not fit Brad Stevens system. He does not play team basketball and he is a liability on defense.

Cs won't be flashy but they will play harder. I also think that Hayward will return to his Utah numbers and he will be an All Star.

My only question is what do they do with the draft picks.

I'm with you. I think a lot of celtics fans are sleeping on our players

I just think Kyrie demanded so much of the attention that guys had to defer. This created some serious rifts on this team.

I actually think it's more Hayward that took attention and touches away and created rifts. I don't think Kyrie demanded any more attention this year than he did last year when he played his 60 games. It was really Hayward coming in that disrupted everything.

Yeah, but it's against the rules to rag on Gordon. Even though it's just stating the obvious with him at this point, people get super sensitive about it. Nevermind the fact that Brad gives him more leeway than other guys and maybe it was the clear favoritism that upset the dynamic in the locker room. But no no. It's all Kyrie.

What is with people and Hayward? We get it, he wasn't a superstar this season, but he played pretty well. He moved the ball, was reasonably efficient/productive, and only took like 8 shots/game. Just because other players had their panties in a bunch over his presence doesn't mean he was the real problem. In fact, he wasn't a problem at all. This narrative is lame and lazy.

It is becoming quite obvious that the worst thing that could have happened to our team's future was making it to game 7 of the ECF. If we had just lost in round 1 to the Bucks like we should have, players would have better known their roles.

You kind of proved my point, no?

Gordon was not good this season. He had points where it looked like he was trending in the right direction, but it was usually one step forward two steps back all season. Even in the playoffs, he had the nice game against Indy then straight up ghosted versus Milwaukee. And his on-court demeanor straight up sucked all season. He usually looked annoyed and sulked constantly in a way other players would get flack for. All this talk of "he'll be better next year" - that's what people hope. There's no guarantee that happens. I think his issue is more between the ears than him still being physically limited at this point and that's a red flag for me.

But hey, who knows? Maybe he'll be resurrected from the basketball dead Jesus style and save the souls of Celtics fans site-wide next season.
2021 Houston Rockets
PG: Kyrie Irving/Patty Mills/Jalen Brunson
SG: OG Anunoby/Norman Powell/Matisse Thybulle
SF: Gordon Hayward/Demar Derozan
PF: Giannis Antetokounmpo/Robert Covington
C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Offline celticsclay

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16176
  • Tommy Points: 1407
Someone on Reddit claimed the Nets are going to sign Kyrie and Jimmy Butler while the Knicks are signing Durant and Kemba.

Imagine if that happened?  Boston could reasonably be behind the Sixers, Bucks, Raptors (if kawhi stays), Knicks, Nets... maybe also the Pacers.   6-8 seed ... maybe lotto.

Unless some kids make a leap, our peers will be the Magic and Pistons.

We could be in the lottery with Philly. It would be great

RazzelnoDazzel

  • Guest
I don't think Boston returns to 40 wins without Kyrie. I actually think Boston will be ok. They will play team basketball and be better on defense.

Kyrie does not fit Brad Stevens system. He does not play team basketball and he is a liability on defense.

Cs won't be flashy but they will play harder. I also think that Hayward will return to his Utah numbers and he will be an All Star.

My only question is what do they do with the draft picks.

I'm with you. I think a lot of celtics fans are sleeping on our players

I just think Kyrie demanded so much of the attention that guys had to defer. This created some serious rifts on this team.

I actually think it's more Hayward that took attention and touches away and created rifts. I don't think Kyrie demanded any more attention this year than he did last year when he played his 60 games. It was really Hayward coming in that disrupted everything.

Yeah, but it's against the rules to rag on Gordon. Even though it's just stating the obvious with him at this point, people get super sensitive about it. Nevermind the fact that Brad gives him more leeway than other guys and maybe it was the clear favoritism that upset the dynamic in the locker room. But no no. It's all Kyrie.

What is with people and Hayward? We get it, he wasn't a superstar this season, but he played pretty well. He moved the ball, was reasonably efficient/productive, and only took like 8 shots/game. Just because other players had their panties in a bunch over his presence doesn't mean he was the real problem. In fact, he wasn't a problem at all. This narrative is lame and lazy.

It is becoming quite obvious that the worst thing that could have happened to our team's future was making it to game 7 of the ECF. If we had just lost in round 1 to the Bucks like we should have, players would have better known their roles.

You kind of proved my point, no?

Gordon was not good this season. He had points where it looked like he was trending in the right direction, but it was usually one step forward two steps back all season. Even in the playoffs, he had the nice game against Indy then straight up ghosted versus Milwaukee. And his on-court demeanor straight up sucked all season. He usually looked annoyed and sulked constantly in a way other players would get flack for. All this talk of "he'll be better next year" - that's what people hope. There's no guarantee that happens. I think his issue is more between the ears than him still being physically limited at this point and that's a red flag for me.

But hey, who knows? Maybe he'll be resurrected from the basketball dead Jesus style and save the souls of Celtics fans site-wide next season.

So 1st year after his injury he was up and down, the heck you expect? If he is p--- poor terrible after the all star break next season I”lol TP you every single game we have the following season. I’ll bet whatever on it he will be much much better next season.

Offline ozgod

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18745
  • Tommy Points: 1527
I don't think Boston returns to 40 wins without Kyrie. I actually think Boston will be ok. They will play team basketball and be better on defense.

Kyrie does not fit Brad Stevens system. He does not play team basketball and he is a liability on defense.

Cs won't be flashy but they will play harder. I also think that Hayward will return to his Utah numbers and he will be an All Star.

My only question is what do they do with the draft picks.

I'm with you. I think a lot of celtics fans are sleeping on our players

I just think Kyrie demanded so much of the attention that guys had to defer. This created some serious rifts on this team.

I actually think it's more Hayward that took attention and touches away and created rifts. I don't think Kyrie demanded any more attention this year than he did last year when he played his 60 games. It was really Hayward coming in that disrupted everything.

Yeah, but it's against the rules to rag on Gordon. Even though it's just stating the obvious with him at this point, people get super sensitive about it. Nevermind the fact that Brad gives him more leeway than other guys and maybe it was the clear favoritism that upset the dynamic in the locker room. But no no. It's all Kyrie.

What is with people and Hayward? We get it, he wasn't a superstar this season, but he played pretty well. He moved the ball, was reasonably efficient/productive, and only took like 8 shots/game. Just because other players had their panties in a bunch over his presence doesn't mean he was the real problem. In fact, he wasn't a problem at all. This narrative is lame and lazy.

It is becoming quite obvious that the worst thing that could have happened to our team's future was making it to game 7 of the ECF. If we had just lost in round 1 to the Bucks like we should have, players would have better known their roles.

He wasn't the problem in terms of behavior and trying to find his role in the team, he was an All-Star that accepted a bench role and reduced minutes and tried to be more selfless and subordinate his role to that of his less illustrious teammates. Unlike others here, I certainly don't resent him for coming back the way he was and how they tried to encourage him and build his confidence back. I don't think he was sulking at all, he just looked lost. But his return was the catalyst that triggered off a cascading series of factors that ultimately all led to our failure to meet expectations this season. You could do a root cause analysis and track it all down:

Gordon returns, Stevens puts him in starting lineup to build his confidence = Mook and Smart play well > playing time for young players drops > creates resentment > Gordon and Jaylen struggle, go to bench > team struggles > Kyrie, probably insecure at the fact that the team made the ECF without him, tries to impose his will on unhappy young players by saying they lack experience, need to accept their role > publicly throws them under the bus > leads to disharmony and inconsistency > Ainge does nothing at the trade deadline, trying to keep assets for a run at AD (which may not even happen now if Kyrie leaves)

etc.

It certainly wasn't his fault that he started the season underdone and his return created friction, but it was certainly a catalyst (not the only one, Mook and Smart playing well and being promoted to the starting lineup was another one that derailed things for the young guys) for everything else that happened. It's unfortunate as he's probably the most selfless, team oriented player on the team and the one who tried the most to make the best of his situation.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Offline liam

  • NCE
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 45920
  • Tommy Points: 3340
I don't think Boston returns to 40 wins without Kyrie. I actually think Boston will be ok. They will play team basketball and be better on defense.

Kyrie does not fit Brad Stevens system. He does not play team basketball and he is a liability on defense.

Cs won't be flashy but they will play harder. I also think that Hayward will return to his Utah numbers and he will be an All Star.

My only question is what do they do with the draft picks.

I'm with you. I think a lot of celtics fans are sleeping on our players

I just think Kyrie demanded so much of the attention that guys had to defer. This created some serious rifts on this team.

I actually think it's more Hayward that took attention and touches away and created rifts. I don't think Kyrie demanded any more attention this year than he did last year when he played his 60 games. It was really Hayward coming in that disrupted everything.

Brad needed to sit Hayward when he came into the game cold. You could tell in the first few minutes he was in weather he was going to be aggressive or not. Hayward was not earning his minutes and neither was Rozier.

yup....i noticed that about Hayward too....about his early game play ....his confidence was soooooooo shakey .  Great Paragraph Liam !

THX

Offline cltc5

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7176
  • Tommy Points: 463
What’s the fascination with Ny teams?  It’s not like Boston is in India or something.  You’re still close to your family

Offline liam

  • NCE
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 45920
  • Tommy Points: 3340
What’s the fascination with Ny teams?  It’s not like Boston is in India or something.  You’re still close to your family

The New York press is always connecting The Knicks to a big free agent but the last one I remember them signing was Amare Stoudemire...