Woj: Brooklyn trades Crabbe and two 1sts to Atlanta for Prince and a 2nd

[ObjectivityOverBias]

Well, if it’s Irving and Durant to Brooklyn, I get it and can see him moving there, though that’s clearly still not the best team in the East. I think they’re still behind both Toronto and Milwaukee and right there in that grouping with Philly, Boston, and Indiana, though likely the best of that group dependent upon what everyone else does.

Otherwise, what would make Brooklyn more desirable than Boston? Outside of him being spiteful at Boston and Brooklyn being a bigger market, it makes no sense for him to go there if he’s wanting to win.

And that’s why I’ll be fine moving on from Kyrie if he goes to one of the NYK teams by himself. All of his talk about staying here, wanting his name in the rafters, blah, blah, blah, will all prove to be just hollow talk, demonstrating that his head isn’t in the right place to begin with and he’s not the one to lead us to banner 18.

I thought about this, jp and posted about it in the Kyrie complaint thread. I always thought that of Boston, Brooklyn, NY and even the Lakers, Boston would have offered Kyrie the best chance to win now, in terms of assets both that we have and that we could get. Even if he teamed up with KD at the Nets or Knicks, would they still be a better team than Boston with him, AD, Hayward, Brown, Horford etc? I couldn't see them being better, I just don't think they have the personnel outside their Big 2 (both of whom have had their share of injuries over the years). If you look at things dispassionately I think the Celtics come out the logical team that offers the best chance to win now.

BUT...the two factors not associated to competitiveness I always thought might sway the decision would be a) how accepted he feels with the Celtics and the fans; and b) his chemistry with Brad Stevens and Brad's style of play.

Earlier in the season and through most of last season he was relatively well-received by the fans, and he said all the right things about wanting to be here, wanting to get his number retired, about the team's history, etc. But as the season deteriorated the fan perception of him just became more and more negative to the point where for most people his playoff flameout was unforgivable and he was the root cause of everything wrong with the team (certainly he bears his share of the blame as the leader but I don't think it's all his fault). Kyrie says he doesn't do social media but I think even he would find it hard not to feel all the hate and anger from the fanbase. Who wants to play for fans who hate you anyway?

The other thing is whether he feels that Brad's schemes and playing philosophy will get the best out of him. The team can move asset pieces around to build him the team he wants but if he feels there's incompatibility of lack of chemistry between him and Brad then it would make sense for him to move somewhere else where the style of play is more suitable to his skill set.

I disagree

Boston fans and media say Irving does not fit, so why would he have a better chance of winning on a team he does not fit?

Many Boston fans are looking at last year's luck driven run and believe that will correlate to the following year. That is false thinking, unless you feel once Kyrie leaves, next year's Celtics will once again be in a game 7 win all situation for a trip to the finals .

ATL Hawks had a 60 win season a few years ago, never replicated that success since.

When Kyrie leaves, expectations will leave as-well. Boston with no Kyrie does not beat the new Sixers, Nets, Raptors,  Pacers or Bucks; unless you get another star.

The Nets with Kyrie and and KD wins the east easily .

[RJ87]

People need to remember something. Teams opened up a lot of space to add two or more stars back when LeBron, Bosh, Wade, Amar'e and others were free agents and Melo was forcing his way out of Denver. A few teams that did that didn't have very good results

This is no guarantee of Brooklyn landing anyone. It's just the Nets doing what they have to do to make themselves a possible landing spot. Clearly, this trade made way more sense to Brooklyn than any sign and trade with GSW or Boston.

I think they have made themselves an alternative to the Knicks. Knicks are still the Knicks and the allure of turning that franchise around could still lure Kyrie and Durant or really any huge talent, but the Nets have a core in place to compliment two stars.

I am not convinced this is a sign of anyone signing anywhere. It's just Brooklyn doing what they have to do to make themselves an excellent option.

Gotta wonder how happy Kyrie would be with most of a team under 26 years old. He wasn't happy with so many young players this year(given his comments criticizing youth and comments about having good vets on the team).

Or with Butler, who seems like he would fit.... awkwardly with someone like Kyrie.

But if reports are to be believed, he and Jimmy are friends.

But like I said earlier in the thread, I don't think it's solely about basketball if he goes to the Nets. His sister is in NY and they're tight. And I believe his daughter and her mom are based there too (again, heard that but can't substantiate it).

[bellerephon]

Well, if it’s Irving and Durant to Brooklyn, I get it and can see him moving there, though that’s clearly still not the best team in the East. I think they’re still behind both Toronto and Milwaukee and right there in that grouping with Philly, Boston, and Indiana, though likely the best of that group dependent upon what everyone else does.

Otherwise, what would make Brooklyn more desirable than Boston? Outside of him being spiteful at Boston and Brooklyn being a bigger market, it makes no sense for him to go there if he’s wanting to win.

And that’s why I’ll be fine moving on from Kyrie if he goes to one of the NYK teams by himself. All of his talk about staying here, wanting his name in the rafters, blah, blah, blah, will all prove to be just hollow talk, demonstrating that his head isn’t in the right place to begin with and he’s not the one to lead us to banner 18.

I thought about this, jp and posted about it in the Kyrie complaint thread. I always thought that of Boston, Brooklyn, NY and even the Lakers, Boston would have offered Kyrie the best chance to win now, in terms of assets both that we have and that we could get. Even if he teamed up with KD at the Nets or Knicks, would they still be a better team than Boston with him, AD, Hayward, Brown, Horford etc? I couldn't see them being better, I just don't think they have the personnel outside their Big 2 (both of whom have had their share of injuries over the years). If you look at things dispassionately I think the Celtics come out the logical team that offers the best chance to win now.

BUT...the two factors not associated to competitiveness I always thought might sway the decision would be a) how accepted he feels with the Celtics and the fans; and b) his chemistry with Brad Stevens and Brad's style of play.

Earlier in the season and through most of last season he was relatively well-received by the fans, and he said all the right things about wanting to be here, wanting to get his number retired, about the team's history, etc. But as the season deteriorated the fan perception of him just became more and more negative to the point where for most people his playoff flameout was unforgivable and he was the root cause of everything wrong with the team (certainly he bears his share of the blame as the leader but I don't think it's all his fault). Kyrie says he doesn't do social media but I think even he would find it hard not to feel all the hate and anger from the fanbase. Who wants to play for fans who hate you anyway?

The other thing is whether he feels that Brad's schemes and playing philosophy will get the best out of him. The team can move asset pieces around to build him the team he wants but if he feels there's incompatibility of lack of chemistry between him and Brad then it would make sense for him to move somewhere else where the style of play is more suitable to his skill set.

I disagree

Boston fans and media say Irving does not fit, so why would he have a better chance of winning on a team he does not fit?

Many Boston fans are looking at last year's luck driven run and believe that will correlate to the following year. That is false thinking, unless you feel once Kyrie leaves, next year's Celtics will once again be in a game 7 win all situation for a trip to the finals .

ATL Hawks had a 60 win season a few years ago, never replicated that success since.

When Kyrie leaves, expectations will leave as-well. Boston with no Kyrie does not beat the new Sixers, Nets, Raptors,  Pacers or Bucks; unless you get another star.

The Nets with Kyrie and and KD wins the east easily .

I think the Bucks and Raptors (if they keep Kawhi) can't be counted out.

[Never Nervous Pervis]

People need to remember something. Teams opened up a lot of space to add two or more stars back when LeBron, Bosh, Wade, Amar'e and others were free agents and Melo was forcing his way out of Denver. A few teams that did that didn't have very good results

This is no guarantee of Brooklyn landing anyone. It's just the Nets doing what they have to do to make themselves a possible landing spot. Clearly, this trade made way more sense to Brooklyn than any sign and trade with GSW or Boston.

I think they have made themselves an alternative to the Knicks. Knicks are still the Knicks and the allure of turning that franchise around could still lure Kyrie and Durant or really any huge talent, but the Nets have a core in place to compliment two stars.

I am not convinced this is a sign of anyone signing anywhere. It's just Brooklyn doing what they have to do to make themselves an excellent option.

Gotta wonder how happy Kyrie would be with most of a team under 26 years old. He wasn't happy with so many young players this year(given his comments criticizing youth and comments about having good vets on the team).

Or with Butler, who seems like he would fit.... awkwardly with someone like Kyrie.

But if reports are to be believed, he and Jimmy are friends.

But like I said earlier in the thread, I don't think it's solely about basketball if he goes to the Nets. His sister is in NY and they're tight. And I believe his daughter and her mom are based there too (again, heard that but can't substantiate it).

He grew up in New Jersey and calls the greater New York metro area home. It could be as simple as that.

[Pvictor11]

I think we will be fine. Can't wait for all this drama to end so we can have a fresh start next season. I have a lot of Faith in Brown, Tatum, Stevens etc and think a lot of people saying 6-8 seed or lotto are going to eat their words. Have a little faith in what we do have and forget about what we Never truly had. Kyrie was Never really really a celtic in my eyes. I don't think he was all in at any moment in the last 2 seasons. For me he was waiting to see if everything would go his way, thinking all the time that if any tiny little thing happened, he would use this particular thing as an excuse to bolt

[JBcat]

Well, if it’s Irving and Durant to Brooklyn, I get it and can see him moving there, though that’s clearly still not the best team in the East. I think they’re still behind both Toronto and Milwaukee and right there in that grouping with Philly, Boston, and Indiana, though likely the best of that group dependent upon what everyone else does.

Otherwise, what would make Brooklyn more desirable than Boston? Outside of him being spiteful at Boston and Brooklyn being a bigger market, it makes no sense for him to go there if he’s wanting to win.

And that’s why I’ll be fine moving on from Kyrie if he goes to one of the NYK teams by himself. All of his talk about staying here, wanting his name in the rafters, blah, blah, blah, will all prove to be just hollow talk, demonstrating that his head isn’t in the right place to begin with and he’s not the one to lead us to banner 18.

The Nets won 7 less games than Boston this year and that is with LeVert playing only 40 games.  Before his injury LeVert liked a real monster in the making.  Russell came into his own this year.  Allen looks like a real star in the making down low.  RHJ is 24, Dinwiddie just turned 26, and Harris is only 27.  They just added Prince who is 25.  There is a lot of young talent on that team.  More than Boston (though Tatum certainly has the highest ceiling, he isn't currently as good as Russell is right now).  Boston obviously has Horford and Hayward, but Hayward isn't back yet and may never be and Horford is getting old.  In other words, Irving might believe that the Nets are set up to win far longer than Boston is and he might not be wrong.

Thinking about the Nets roster more I can see why Irving might think this.  I think he could play alongside Russell or Dinwiddie like he does with Smart.  This is a bummer if it actually happens.

[PhoSita]

Either way, it sucks. It sucks to be so close to pairing All-NBA talents in Kyrie and AD together for their primes (not on the backend like KG/Paul/Ray) and to have it all fall apart. I don't want to be a scrappy underdog that overachieves. That storyline was fun. But I want Banner 18.

It does suck.

Problem is, Kyrie is not the person / personality that KG was.  He's not even Paul Pierce.  AD isn't on the level of those guys, either.

That's one of the issues with targeting guys who are still on the younger side.  They are less likely to have the willingness to sacrifice in favor of winning as part of a team.

[PhoSita]

Well, if it’s Irving and Durant to Brooklyn, I get it and can see him moving there, though that’s clearly still not the best team in the East. I think they’re still behind both Toronto and Milwaukee and right there in that grouping with Philly, Boston, and Indiana, though likely the best of that group dependent upon what everyone else does.

Otherwise, what would make Brooklyn more desirable than Boston? Outside of him being spiteful at Boston and Brooklyn being a bigger market, it makes no sense for him to go there if he’s wanting to win.

And that’s why I’ll be fine moving on from Kyrie if he goes to one of the NYK teams by himself. All of his talk about staying here, wanting his name in the rafters, blah, blah, blah, will all prove to be just hollow talk, demonstrating that his head isn’t in the right place to begin with and he’s not the one to lead us to banner 18.

The Nets won 7 less games than Boston this year and that is with LeVert playing only 40 games.  Before his injury LeVert liked a real monster in the making.  Russell came into his own this year.  Allen looks like a real star in the making down low.  RHJ is 24, Dinwiddie just turned 26, and Harris is only 27.  They just added Prince who is 25.  There is a lot of young talent on that team.  More than Boston (though Tatum certainly has the highest ceiling, he isn't currently as good as Russell is right now).  Boston obviously has Horford and Hayward, but Hayward isn't back yet and may never be and Horford is getting old.  In other words, Irving might believe that the Nets are set up to win far longer than Boston is and he might not be wrong.

Classic Moranis.


The Nets have more young talent than Boston.


K.

[jpotter33]

People need to remember something. Teams opened up a lot of space to add two or more stars back when LeBron, Bosh, Wade, Amar'e and others were free agents and Melo was forcing his way out of Denver. A few teams that did that didn't have very good results

This is no guarantee of Brooklyn landing anyone. It's just the Nets doing what they have to do to make themselves a possible landing spot. Clearly, this trade made way more sense to Brooklyn than any sign and trade with GSW or Boston.

I think they have made themselves an alternative to the Knicks. Knicks are still the Knicks and the allure of turning that franchise around could still lure Kyrie and Durant or really any huge talent, but the Nets have a core in place to compliment two stars.

I am not convinced this is a sign of anyone signing anywhere. It's just Brooklyn doing what they have to do to make themselves an excellent option.

Gotta wonder how happy Kyrie would be with most of a team under 26 years old. He wasn't happy with so many young players this year(given his comments criticizing youth and comments about having good vets on the team).

Or with Butler, who seems like he would fit.... awkwardly with someone like Kyrie.

But if reports are to be believed, he and Jimmy are friends.

But like I said earlier in the thread, I don't think it's solely about basketball if he goes to the Nets. His sister is in NY and they're tight. And I believe his daughter and her mom are based there too (again, heard that but can't substantiate it).

He grew up in New Jersey and calls the greater New York metro area home. It could be as simple as that.

No, he’s specifically said in the past that NY is NOT his home, as he’s from Jersey. He may be going there for other reasons with his family as RJ has detailed (which is fine - just makes his actions this past year look stupid between his verbal commitment and his banner commercial), but I don’t think it’s because of him wanting to go “home”.

[Silky]

Just draft NAW and Samanic and we will push 50 wins.

Sign Vince Carter and through the entire full MLE at Thomas Bryant/Whiteside (If he opts out)/Dedmon..Backload the contract for Bryant so that it makes it really hard for Washington to match(Like the Tyler Johnson contract from a few years ago)



Smart/NAW/Wannamaker
Brown/Vince Carter/
Tatum/Hayward/Semi
Horford/Samanic/Yabuselle
MLE/Baynes/Williams

Can shop Hayward at deadline once he improves his value.


***note - According to an article I just found, theMost Washington could offer Bryant is 9.28 million, non taxpayer MLE is valued at 9.26million this season. So If Boston offered a 3 year deal starting at the Full MLE and a final year of 15 million, I cannot see Washington being able to match, especially with Wall on the Supermax.

Bryant in 20 minutes
61% FG
33.4% 3pt (on 1.5shots per game)

Improving defender, improving passer, only 21 years old.  Big and super high energy. Be a great front court mate to Horford.

[Pvictor11]

Someone on Reddit claimed the Nets are going to sign Kyrie and Jimmy Butler while the Knicks are signing Durant and Kemba.

Imagine if that happened?  Boston could reasonably be behind the Sixers, Bucks, Raptors (if kawhi stays), Knicks, Nets... maybe also the Pacers.   6-8 seed ... maybe lotto.

Unless some kids make a leap, our peers will be the Magic and Pistons.

I'm willing to bet you the few tp that I have that this will not happen at all.

Durant is coming back in game 4 and GSW are winning the title. KD stays to try and go for 4 straight titles, which MJ and Kobe do not have.

Butler made pretty clear that he wants money and Philly will offer him the max.  He will stay in Philly.

Kemba is not getting a supermax from the Hornets, but will receive a very good offer, bigger than any other team, and is gonna stay too.

Kyrie is going to the Nets alone, because he doesn't want to be the follower of anybody. He made it pretty clear already.

The trick of next season is Anthony Davis and I have no Idea where he is going. I thought we had the best shot, but I don't think Danny will go for it.

This offseason will have a lot less noise than people are expecting

[celticinorlando]

I don't think Boston returns to 40 wins without Kyrie. I actually think Boston will be ok. They will play team basketball and be better on defense.

Kyrie does not fit Brad Stevens system. He does not play team basketball and he is a liability on defense.

Cs won't be flashy but they will play harder. I also think that Hayward will return to his Utah numbers and he will be an All Star.

My only question is what do they do with the draft picks.

[Never Nervous Pervis]

People need to remember something. Teams opened up a lot of space to add two or more stars back when LeBron, Bosh, Wade, Amar'e and others were free agents and Melo was forcing his way out of Denver. A few teams that did that didn't have very good results

This is no guarantee of Brooklyn landing anyone. It's just the Nets doing what they have to do to make themselves a possible landing spot. Clearly, this trade made way more sense to Brooklyn than any sign and trade with GSW or Boston.

I think they have made themselves an alternative to the Knicks. Knicks are still the Knicks and the allure of turning that franchise around could still lure Kyrie and Durant or really any huge talent, but the Nets have a core in place to compliment two stars.

I am not convinced this is a sign of anyone signing anywhere. It's just Brooklyn doing what they have to do to make themselves an excellent option.

Gotta wonder how happy Kyrie would be with most of a team under 26 years old. He wasn't happy with so many young players this year(given his comments criticizing youth and comments about having good vets on the team).

Or with Butler, who seems like he would fit.... awkwardly with someone like Kyrie.

But if reports are to be believed, he and Jimmy are friends.

But like I said earlier in the thread, I don't think it's solely about basketball if he goes to the Nets. His sister is in NY and they're tight. And I believe his daughter and her mom are based there too (again, heard that but can't substantiate it).

He grew up in New Jersey and calls the greater New York metro area home. It could be as simple as that.

No, he’s specifically said in the past that NY is NOT his home, as he’s from Jersey. He may be going there for other reasons with his family as RJ has detailed (which is fine - just makes his actions this past year look stupid between his verbal commitment and his banner commercial), but I don’t think it’s because of him wanting to go “home”.

There are multiple factors that go into any company/job change but going home is definitely part of the narrative here, and he has referred to the NY metro area as home:

Irving, who grew up in West Orange, NJ, and had the Knicks on his list of preferred destinations last season before getting dealt to the Celtics, also referred to the New York metro area as "home."

"[The metro area] will always be home to me," he said. "I'm from New Jersey - to just be clear. This is where I grew up, man."

https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/potential-knicks-target-kyrie-irving-talks-rumors-calls-new-york-area-home/282995494

[Pvictor11]

I don't think Boston returns to 40 wins without Kyrie. I actually think Boston will be ok. They will play team basketball and be better on defense.

Kyrie does not fit Brad Stevens system. He does not play team basketball and he is a liability on defense.

Cs won't be flashy but they will play harder. I also think that Hayward will return to his Utah numbers and he will be an All Star.

My only question is what do they do with the draft picks.

I'm with you. I think a lot of celtics fans are sleeping on our players

[celticinorlando]

I don't think Boston returns to 40 wins without Kyrie. I actually think Boston will be ok. They will play team basketball and be better on defense.

Kyrie does not fit Brad Stevens system. He does not play team basketball and he is a liability on defense.

Cs won't be flashy but they will play harder. I also think that Hayward will return to his Utah numbers and he will be an All Star.

My only question is what do they do with the draft picks.

I'm with you. I think a lot of celtics fans are sleeping on our players

I just think Kyrie demanded so much of the attention that guys had to defer. This created some serious rifts on this team.