Are we Ready on Green Running Our Offense Next Whole Season 26 to 30pts. a game?

[Moranis]

I'm confused by this whole thread.  There seems to be an assumption that a contender needs to be built on a high volume scorer.  That's simply not the case.  The '04 Pistons, all the Spurs Champions, our '08 Celtics are all examples of team's that weren't led by a 25+ PPG scorer. 

With Rondo as our set up guy, likely raising his scoring averages to 15-16 PPG, Green averaging 18-20, and Sully and Bradley continuing to develop, that's a good start.  By no means, am I claiming that I think that's a title contender as is, but it's a good foundation. 

I don't see any reason to expect Jeff Green to all of a sudden start scoring like Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant or Lebron James.  I also don't think that it means that we are in a hopeless situation when he doesn't. 

I do expect Jeff Green to put up 18 to 20 points a game, though, once he becomes a full time starter, playing 36+ minutes per game consistently.  I think asking for more than that is completely out of touch with reality.  Considering our current roster, he'll probably be our top scorer, but there's no way he'll be running the offense.  That job will still fall to our pass first point guard.

But most of those teams had players that were capable of being 25 point per game scorers and most had players that had already done it.  They just didn't the title year because of the overall quality of the team.  I mean people forget that Duncan and Robinson were both 25 point per game scorers during their careers.  Pierce and Allen were both 25 point per game scorers.  Etc.

Basically every title team has at least 1 player that is a go to big time scorer.  Boston doesn't have that player on the roster any more (Pierce is just too old to do it and without him there isn't anyone). 

[Josh88]

if durant james anthony bryant missed a lot of shots, FG's per game don't be surprised if green does the same, even pierce 2-16 FG and green sometimes go much worst 2-20 etc;

I'm not sure that you understand how field goal percentage is calculated, or grasp the concept of averages.

Lebron shot 56% this year, Durant 51%. 56% for a wing player is unheard of. Relatively speaking, I would not consider that "missing a lot of shots." Pierce and Green are both roughly 45% career shooters, but Pierce has managed that percentage as the number one option scoring 20+ PPG for his career. Jeff Green has done it as the 3rd or 4th option on 13 PPG. If he's going to take enough shots to score 17-18 points a night (which I would consider the limit of what he's capable of) then he's almost definitely not doing it on 45% shooting.

It's just absurd to mention Green in the same sentence as LeBron, Durant, Kobe, Carmelo, etc. These are the top scorers in the league and all locks for the hall of fame, Jeff Green will never even make a single all-star game.

[moiso]

Knew it was a Krook thread from the title lol.

As for Green running our offense, I don't mind him being the #2. I was hoping for a stronger shooting guard who can take over to be our #1.

If Green does manage to play 38 minutes which he will I see him averaging 18-20 at the most.

It doesn't matter if teams are geared to guard him... SF are too undersized, and he has long arms. PF are generally too slow to keep up with him.

The only thing is at least this upcoming year, Green knows exactly what hes getting into. Will he morph into an allstar? Maybe. Will his rebounds increase or decrease? Maybe. Will he be consistent? Maybe.

I see him grabbing 4.5 boards next year, with 2.1 APG, and 17-20 PPG.

17-20 PPG is solid, and as long as the bench can contribute, and we have a low post/down low scoring big who can score or separate the defense then we'll have enough offense.

Jeff Green will always have physical advantages against his man.  But a defense geared to stop him will have big men ready to get in Green's way after he blows by his man.

[badshar]

If Green was as good as people in this thread portray him to be that HE would take us to the second round, then we wouldn't have lost in the first round this year.

[RJ87]

I really think people are starting to put to high of expectations on Jeff and I feel bad for the guy - once he undoubtably fails to meet those expectations, some fans are gonna turn on him. I'm still taking a strong "wait & see" approach with Jeff. Can he be a go-to option on a playoff team? I don't know. What I do know is that he needs to work on some areas of his game that can make him a much more useful player:

- Ballhandling and fascillating; he's decent in this area already, but you still can't really give him the ball at the end of the game. It's one thing to be able to score, but you also have to be able to create shots for others at the very least be able to hit the open man when defenses collapse in on you.
- Diversifying his offense; Jeff has a lot of skills that work well for him, but he needs to really work on dribbling going to his left when he drives to the basket, and work on developing a pull-up jumper. If he's the primary offensive option, he's just to easy to gameplan for right now.
- Post Game; he's already shown promise posting up, but he still needs to work on a go-to move or two to really be able to take advantage in that area.

[nickagneta]

I really think people are starting to put to high of expectations on Jeff and I feel bad for the guy - once he undoubtably fails to meet those expectations, some fans are gonna turn on him. I'm still taking a strong "wait & see" approach with Jeff. Can he be a go-to option on a playoff team? I don't know. What I do know is that he needs to work on some areas of his game that can make him a much more useful player:

- Ballhandling and fascillating; he's decent in this area already, but you still can't really give him the ball at the end of the game. It's one thing to be able to score, but you also have to be able to create shots for others at the very least be able to hit the open man when defenses collapse in on you.
- Diversifying his offense; Jeff has a lot of skills that work well for him, but he needs to really work on dribbling going to his left when he drives to the basket, and work on developing a pull-up jumper. If he's the primary offensive option, he's just to easy to gameplan for right now.
- Post Game; he's already shown promise posting up, but he still needs to work on a go-to move or two to really be able to take advantage in that area.

Rebounding.
Using his left hand to start a drive or finish a lay in.
Being aggressive 100% of the time.

[CelticConcourse]

Krook, just stop. You can not just expect him to lead the league in scoring

[Monkhouse]

Knew it was a Krook thread from the title lol.

As for Green running our offense, I don't mind him being the #2. I was hoping for a stronger shooting guard who can take over to be our #1.

If Green does manage to play 38 minutes which he will I see him averaging 18-20 at the most.

It doesn't matter if teams are geared to guard him... SF are too undersized, and he has long arms. PF are generally too slow to keep up with him.

The only thing is at least this upcoming year, Green knows exactly what hes getting into. Will he morph into an allstar? Maybe. Will his rebounds increase or decrease? Maybe. Will he be consistent? Maybe.

I see him grabbing 4.5 boards next year, with 2.1 APG, and 17-20 PPG.

17-20 PPG is solid, and as long as the bench can contribute, and we have a low post/down low scoring big who can score or separate the defense then we'll have enough offense.

Jeff Green will always have physical advantages against his man.  But a defense geared to stop him will have big men ready to get in Green's way after he blows by his man.

Yeah I completely agree.

The only problem with Jeff is I don't care if he only scores 10 PPG.

At least rebound, work your man, make him tired, and try to be more multifaceted.

With Rondo I like the fact he can score at hand, can excel in creating open looks, and especially rebound.

Jeff Green is 5'9. He should be averaging at least 3.5-6 RPG if he wants to be considered the number one option. A number one option isn't just a scorer, look at how improved Durant is now. He's working hard, setting up open looks for the open man, rebounding, all with good defense. Its just a shame OKC really needed Westbrook healthy. A number option isn't just a go to scorer, but someone who can affect the game. I would say Rondo can take over games, where Jeff Green who is as passive as a puppy dog at times can't.

4 things Green needs to work on to really impress us.

1) Rebound. Rebound. Rebound. If Jeff can average 4-7 rebounds per game, that's all I ask of him. I was hoping J-Smoove would come here, the duo of Jeff Green and Josh Smith will be something special in my eyes.

2) Use his left. He needs to start learning how to go left. Its just getting really predictable for certain defenses to know what type of drive hes going to do.

3) Learn some new moves. He needs to learn how to do the pull up jumper, with his speed and athleticism, pulling up for the jumper would knock off the defender like *snaps* that.

4) BE AGGRESSIVE! This is mainly what I want. I want Jeff Green to be like the water boy. Play with the intent to kill. I don't care if he plays like Perkins with no smile. Jeff Green needs to play like he just got out jail, be aggressive! Pulling up for the 3 is good if you think you got it, but if not drive in, and hammer that son of !@#$!
A man with Jeff Green's athleticism, and skill its amazing to me how he isn't any more aggressive, and he needs to be!

[badshar]

These are the thing that I think Jeff Green needs to improve on:

• Handle the ball more properly. Countless times I have seen you getting all nervous and passing away when the the defensive pressure increases.
• Take the initiative of rebounding. You can rebound. You have the height and when you actually try to rebound, its pretty easy for you to out-jump others and grab the ball, so please do it. If not for the team, at least do it for your own stats.
• Improve handles when driving. There have been so many times that I saw you driving and losing the ball because someone tapped it away. Come on, you are not the only person that drives to the rim. Rondo, Pierce, Terry, LeBron, Durant, Kobe etc. all do it. Learn from them. You have the height, so put the ball high above so they can't reach.
• Improve your left hand. Having another hand opens up a whole new world of possibilities. Look at Rondo. If he doesn't have anything available on his right side, he easily switches on his left hand and scores or completes the play. Being able to do on the left hand everything that you do on the right hand makes it twice as easy for you to complete the play and twice as hard for anyone to defend you.
• Don't just ask for the ball and just pass it back. If you are asking for the ball, then do something. Find an open man or score. I saw you so many times ask for the ball and when you got it, all you did was dribble for 5 seconds and then pass it back. If I am running a play and I see you asking for the ball, then I break up the play and trust you to do something instead. But if you will just ask for the ball to pass it back in a matter of 5 seconds, then not only did you just waste time, but you also broke the entire play that was being executed initially.
• Man up and toughen up. Get that competitive mentality to win at all costs like KG, Pierce and Rondo have (Terry has it too). Kobe, LeBron and others all have it. Trying to be nice will not get you anywhere on the court, if you want to be a big name or be known. Don't try to be like Durant. He is nice and all, but that "play nice and we are all friends" mentality is not getting him anywhere nor will it ever get him anywhere. Be nice off the court, but on the court, your goal is to win and beat your opponent. If that is not your goal, then don't even step on the court. We need winners, not losers. If nothing else, sit down and think about where this mentality has gotten KG, Pierce, Rondo, Kobe, LeBron, Terry and others alike in their basketball careers. If you want to have a list of achievements by the end of your career, get that mentality. Rondo is so young, but he already has a pretty long list of achievements.

I think these things will easily catapult him to the top.

[Geo123]

for the last time...on green
do we really expect him to score consistently as pierce can do game per game

example 26 points a game consistently?
are we ready on green running our offense for the whole season?

what if green had a minor injury...who is your second option on scoring?
(pierce is gone)

come playoffs with big 3 of miami heat and new york knicks
without pp and kg, what we expect from green, he will take us to 2nd round playoffs?

is 18points a game from green enough to win us game per game the whole season?

That's crazy to expect Green to give us 26ppg.  Check out how many people score 26 ppg a game consistantly now a days.  The answer is very few.  Green should be able to give you between 17 and 20 ppg especially with a healthy Rondo getting out on the break.  Is that good enough?  It depends on the pieces aroudn him... 

[D.o.s.]

Knew it was a Krook thread from the title lol.

As for Green running our offense, I don't mind him being the #2. I was hoping for a stronger shooting guard who can take over to be our #1.

If Green does manage to play 38 minutes which he will I see him averaging 18-20 at the most.

It doesn't matter if teams are geared to guard him... SF are too undersized, and he has long arms. PF are generally too slow to keep up with him.

The only thing is at least this upcoming year, Green knows exactly what hes getting into. Will he morph into an allstar? Maybe. Will his rebounds increase or decrease? Maybe. Will he be consistent? Maybe.

I see him grabbing 4.5 boards next year, with 2.1 APG, and 17-20 PPG.

17-20 PPG is solid, and as long as the bench can contribute, and we have a low post/down low scoring big who can score or separate the defense then we'll have enough offense.

Jeff Green will always have physical advantages against his man.  But a defense geared to stop him will have big men ready to get in Green's way after he blows by his man.

Yeah I completely agree.

The only problem with Jeff is I don't care if he only scores 10 PPG.

At least rebound, work your man, make him tired, and try to be more multifaceted.

With Rondo I like the fact he can score at hand, can excel in creating open looks, and especially rebound.

Jeff Green is 5'9. He should be averaging at least 3.5-6 RPG if he wants to be considered the number one option. A number one option isn't just a scorer, look at how improved Durant is now. He's working hard, setting up open looks for the open man, rebounding, all with good defense. Its just a shame OKC really needed Westbrook healthy. A number option isn't just a go to scorer, but someone who can affect the game. I would say Rondo can take over games, where Jeff Green who is as passive as a puppy dog at times can't.

4 things Green needs to work on to really impress us.

1) Rebound. Rebound. Rebound. If Jeff can average 4-7 rebounds per game, that's all I ask of him. I was hoping J-Smoove would come here, the duo of Jeff Green and Josh Smith will be something special in my eyes.

2) Use his left. He needs to start learning how to go left. Its just getting really predictable for certain defenses to know what type of drive hes going to do.

3) Learn some new moves. He needs to learn how to do the pull up jumper, with his speed and athleticism, pulling up for the jumper would knock off the defender like *snaps* that.

4) BE AGGRESSIVE! This is mainly what I want. I want Jeff Green to be like the water boy. Play with the intent to kill. I don't care if he plays like Perkins with no smile. Jeff Green needs to play like he just got out jail, be aggressive! Pulling up for the 3 is good if you think you got it, but if not drive in, and hammer that son of !@#$!
A man with Jeff Green's athleticism, and skill its amazing to me how he isn't any more aggressive, and he needs to be!

Nate Robinson is 5'9, bro.

As far as Jeff Green's aggression, I think it's a bit of a lost cause at this point in his career. But he'll probably benefit by having Rondo feed him in the spots he likes it and in transition, right?

[Monkhouse]

Knew it was a Krook thread from the title lol.

As for Green running our offense, I don't mind him being the #2. I was hoping for a stronger shooting guard who can take over to be our #1.

If Green does manage to play 38 minutes which he will I see him averaging 18-20 at the most.

It doesn't matter if teams are geared to guard him... SF are too undersized, and he has long arms. PF are generally too slow to keep up with him.

The only thing is at least this upcoming year, Green knows exactly what hes getting into. Will he morph into an allstar? Maybe. Will his rebounds increase or decrease? Maybe. Will he be consistent? Maybe.

I see him grabbing 4.5 boards next year, with 2.1 APG, and 17-20 PPG.

17-20 PPG is solid, and as long as the bench can contribute, and we have a low post/down low scoring big who can score or separate the defense then we'll have enough offense.

Jeff Green will always have physical advantages against his man.  But a defense geared to stop him will have big men ready to get in Green's way after he blows by his man.

Yeah I completely agree.

The only problem with Jeff is I don't care if he only scores 10 PPG.

At least rebound, work your man, make him tired, and try to be more multifaceted.

With Rondo I like the fact he can score at hand, can excel in creating open looks, and especially rebound.

Jeff Green is 5'9. He should be averaging at least 3.5-6 RPG if he wants to be considered the number one option. A number one option isn't just a scorer, look at how improved Durant is now. He's working hard, setting up open looks for the open man, rebounding, all with good defense. Its just a shame OKC really needed Westbrook healthy. A number option isn't just a go to scorer, but someone who can affect the game. I would say Rondo can take over games, where Jeff Green who is as passive as a puppy dog at times can't.

4 things Green needs to work on to really impress us.

1) Rebound. Rebound. Rebound. If Jeff can average 4-7 rebounds per game, that's all I ask of him. I was hoping J-Smoove would come here, the duo of Jeff Green and Josh Smith will be something special in my eyes.

2) Use his left. He needs to start learning how to go left. Its just getting really predictable for certain defenses to know what type of drive hes going to do.

3) Learn some new moves. He needs to learn how to do the pull up jumper, with his speed and athleticism, pulling up for the jumper would knock off the defender like *snaps* that.

4) BE AGGRESSIVE! This is mainly what I want. I want Jeff Green to be like the water boy. Play with the intent to kill. I don't care if he plays like Perkins with no smile. Jeff Green needs to play like he just got out jail, be aggressive! Pulling up for the 3 is good if you think you got it, but if not drive in, and hammer that son of !@#$!
A man with Jeff Green's athleticism, and skill its amazing to me how he isn't any more aggressive, and he needs to be!

Nate Robinson is 5'9, bro.

As far as Jeff Green's aggression, I think it's a bit of a lost cause at this point in his career. But he'll probably benefit by having Rondo feed him in the spots he likes it and in transition, right?

Whoops

As far as aggression, you can teach that winning mentality especially if the person believes he can truly be dominant. Its just a mental game.

These are the thing that I think Jeff Green needs to improve on:

• Handle ball more properly. Countless times I have seen you getting all nervous and passing away when the the defensive pressure increases.
• Take the initiative of rebound. You can rebound. You have the height and when you actually try to rebound, its pretty easy for you to out-jump others and grab the ball, so please do it. If not for the team, at least do it for your own stats.
• Improve handles when driving. There have been so many times that I saw you driving and losing the ball because someone tapped it away. Come on, you are not the only person that drives to the rim. Rondo, Pierce, Terry, LeBron, Durant, Kobe etc. all do it. Learn from them. You have the height, so put the ball high above so they can't reach.
• Improve your left hand. Having another hand opens up a whole new world of possibilities. Look at Rondo. If he doesn't have anything available on his right side, he easily switches on his left hand and scores or completes the play. Being able to do on the left hand everything that you do on the ring hand makes it twice as easy for you to complete the play and twice as hard for anyone to defend you.
• Don't just ask for the ball and just pass it back. If you are asking for the ball, then do something. Find an open man or score. I saw you so many times ask for the ball and when you got it, all you did was dribble for 5 seconds and then pass it back. If I am running a play and I see you asking for the ball, then I break up the play and trust you to do something instead. But if you will just ask for the ball to pass it back in a matter of 5 seconds, then not only did you just waste time, but you also broke the entire play that was being executed initially.
• Man up and toughen up. Get that competitive mentality to win at all costs like KG, Pierce and Rondo have (Terry has it too). Kobe, LeBron and others all have it. Trying to be nice will not get you anywhere on the court, if you want to be a big name or be known. Don't try to be like Durant. He is nice and all, but that "play nice and we are all friends" mentality is getting him anywhere nor will it ever get him anywhere. Be nice off the court, but on the court, your goal is to win and beat your opponent. If that is not your goal, then don't even step on the court. We need winners, not losers. If nothing else, sit down and think about where this mentality has gotten KG, Pierce, Rondo, Kobe, LeBron, Terry and others alike in their basketball careers. If you want to have a list of achievements by the end of your career, get that mentality. Rondo is so young, but he already has a pretty long list of achievements.

I think these things will easily catapult him to the top.

Agreed on all points.

[snively]

I'm confused by this whole thread.  There seems to be an assumption that a contender needs to be built on a high volume scorer.  That's simply not the case.  The '04 Pistons, all the Spurs Champions, our '08 Celtics are all examples of team's that weren't led by a 25+ PPG scorer. 

With Rondo as our set up guy, likely raising his scoring averages to 15-16 PPG, Green averaging 18-20, and Sully and Bradley continuing to develop, that's a good start.  By no means, am I claiming that I think that's a title contender as is, but it's a good foundation. 

I don't see any reason to expect Jeff Green to all of a sudden start scoring like Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant or Lebron James.  I also don't think that it means that we are in a hopeless situation when he doesn't. 

I do expect Jeff Green to put up 18 to 20 points a game, though, once he becomes a full time starter, playing 36+ minutes per game consistently.  I think asking for more than that is completely out of touch with reality.  Considering our current roster, he'll probably be our top scorer, but there's no way he'll be running the offense.  That job will still fall to our pass first point guard.

But most of those teams had players that were capable of being 25 point per game scorers and most had players that had already done it.  They just didn't the title year because of the overall quality of the team.  I mean people forget that Duncan and Robinson were both 25 point per game scorers during their careers.  Pierce and Allen were both 25 point per game scorers.  Etc.

Basically every title team has at least 1 player that is a go to big time scorer.  Boston doesn't have that player on the roster any more (Pierce is just too old to do it and without him there isn't anyone).

The one counter to your argument is the 04 Pistons (a pretty rare breed of team, but still) - Billups, Hamilton and Sheed were all in the 15-20ppg range as scorers, Prince   a step below and then Wallace was an offensive zero.

You can build a contender without a dominant single scorer as long as you have a great defensive foundation and a well-balanced, robust offensive attack.

This was arguably the model that we employed in our 2010 final run - the Big 3 were no longer big time (i.e. capable of 25ppg) scorers, but with Rondo providing All-Star level support and a dominant defense, they were a bonafide contender and came a few bad breaks away from a title.

[fanofgreen]

I've seen a lot of posts in this thread, talking about what Jeff Green needs to work on for next year.

A lot of good points are being made: being aggressive, hit the glass and rebound, work on ball-handling, learn to go left, new offensive moves, pull-up jumpers, etc.

Those are all things he needs to work on no doubt, but with regards to his ball-handling, new offensive moves, pull-up jumpers, going left, etc. it all is connected to one thing.

That one thing is: FOOTWORK!

Jeff Greens foot-mechanics are terrible. That is why he doesnt really have a pull-up jumper game, and struggles with his ball handling. His footwork is "wonky" "off" "awkward", it's why he has trouble turning the corner offensively in the halfcourt, especially on isolation playes (its why Doc started putting Jeff Green in dribble hand-offs on the left side of the floor, catching it on the go going right).It is why Jeff Green rarely successfully pulls of the Euro-step move, and insteads gets a charge/block call.

I also believe that is why, if you noticed, he hits the ground a lot after his air-born parlays to the rim; because he takes awkward contact in the air, his balance is "off" while in the air because of the way he jumps off the ground.

All this to say, that Jeff Green has a boat load of talent in him, but part of why he doesn't "tap" in to that source of talent is probably 40% mentally not being in "attack""aggressive" mode, and 60% physical mechanics,specifically his footwork. His poor footwork, severley limits him offensively.

I'd rather he spend most of the summer, not even picking up a ball, and instead work on tweaking his foot mechanics

[ManUp]

Green isn't going to develop a left hand dribble at the age of 27. He's decent finishing around the rim with it and that's good enough for me. IMO, to score more efficiently when defenses lock in he has to learn to take advantage of spacing, off the ball movement, and using picks. Green is a big athletic guy he could be a perfect off the ball weapon with Rondo controlling the ball.

...he also should be grabbing AT LEAST 5 boards a night if he's going to play 38 minutes.