The Big Dissappointment

[Fafnir]

As an aside I keep getting messed up by James Jones, Eddie House, and my memories of Eddie Jones.....

Its Paul Pierce, Ricky Davis, and Ricky Pierce all over again!

[the_Bird]

Joel Anthony and Haslem don't make quite enough to bring back an MLE-level player by themselves, and why the hell is Anthony signed through 2014-2015 anyway? 

They think he has upside.  He's basically, their attempt at a Kendrick Perkins.  If he develops, then he's under contract for not that much.  If he plateaus, it's not an outrageous price (five years at $18 million is a bit more than half the contract that Toronto gave Amir Johnson) for a defensive-minded, shot-blocking back-up center who can be a spot starter.  He does need to work on rebounding, though.

It's not a completely horrible notion.  They're in good shape if either Anthony or their fatboy project big Dexter Pittman becomes close to an average NBA starting center.  I doubt Joel Anthony will be that guy, but it's not the sort of contract that destroys a franchise's flexibility.

I just don't see it.  He's short to play the 5.  Gets some shot blocks, but rebounding numbers are pretty mediocre.  Last year, he played about sixteen minutes a game and averaged 3.1 boards/game.  That's one board every 5.3 minutes.  I know it's not perfect to not adjust for pace....  but that's pretty mediocre for your 5.  I mean, that's worse than Mark Blount averaged over his career.  In Perk's third season, he was playing 19 minutes a game and averaged almost six boards.  

I'm not saying that his contract is an albatros in any way - Miami doesn't care about luxury tax, and with or without Anthony's contract they basically just have the MLE to work with going forward.  I just don't see that as being anything that would *really* be that enticing as a trade asset.

The only real trade assets I see Miami as having are

Bosh (if the experiment fails in the playoffs) - but that would mean Bosh's value would be down

Haslem (29 other teams would find a roster spot for him)

Mike Miller (would have been more if he didn't get hurt AGAIN).

Looks to me like the Miami team we're seeing tonight is going to be pretty much the Miami team we'll see in April/May.  

[the_Bird]

The question in my mind is whether the Wade/LeBron experiment implodes before they can bring in the pieces that they're lacking (a decent PG, a legit, defense-and-rebounding 5). 

They're lacking in trade assets for these kinds of complementary pieces.  Joel Anthony and Haslem don't make quite enough to bring back an MLE-level player by themselves, and why the hell is Anthony signed through 2014-2015 anyway?  They gave away virtually all of their 1st round picks in the S&Ts for Bosh and LeBron.  They aren't exactly loaded up with young guys who might be attractive trade bait.

So, let's say Miami wanted to bring in a better PG or a better C.  Pretty much their only trade assets are Haslem and Mike Miller, both of whom are key bench players for them.  Otherwise, it's basically wait until next summer, when they get to spend the MLE again.

So, how does Miami fill these holes on their roster?  And, if the team isn't dominating, how long until Wade and LeBron start to chaffe?  Bosh will get blamed first, but there's a decent chance we see this whole thing blow up within a year and a half.

Miller is going to stretch the floor when he's back given bigger lanes for wade & lebron.  Haslem is imo their best rebounder.  I wouldn't trade either.  Why not Bosh?  You could get a few good players for him, teams would be interested enough to look at it. 

  One single player isn't enough to really stretch the floor. Don't they already have a 3rd wing that's been hitting most of his threes?

Eddie hasn't made a 3 in the last three games, he's hitting at 35% this year IIRC.  Eddie's a guy that'll play himself into and out of the rotation, he's a great guy to have around when he's hitting shots but you don't dump Mike Miller just because you have Eddie.  

Mike Miller is a very important element to what Miami wants to do, when he's back he'll be taking minutes away from the PGs, not just backing up LeWade.  They aren't going to trade him unless they get something REALLY good in return.

  I meant James Jones, who's hitting 50% on threes.

I keep forgetting James Jones is even on the team.  I blame his name - it's about as generic as it gets.  Almost as bad as "Joe Smith."

It's kind of odd to think - as bad as the Miami team surrounding Wade was last year, James Jones was only getting 14 minute a game.  Now that they've brought in all of this other talent, he's suddenly one of their most important bench players.  We'll see, I still don't think Mike Miller going anywhere, not until they see how the team looks when he's back.

[Fafnir]

Well last year they had Quentin Richardson taking up James Jones's playing time. Plus I believe he was injured for much of the year as well.

[the_Bird]

Well last year they had Quentin Richardson taking up James Jones's playing time. Plus I believe he was injured for much of the year as well.

...  well, injury is one thing, being beaten out by Q-Rich is something else entirely.  James Jones is one of those guys that just strikes me as, well...   "one of those guys" - a player that does some things OK, but ultimately is replaceable.  He's not the reason you unload Mike Miller, whose shooting is good enough where he at least MIGHT be a difference-maker for them in the playoffs.

[kozlodoev]

Joel Anthony and Haslem don't make quite enough to bring back an MLE-level player by themselves, and why the hell is Anthony signed through 2014-2015 anyway? 

They think he has upside.  He's basically, their attempt at a Kendrick Perkins.  If he develops, then he's under contract for not that much.  If he plateaus, it's not an outrageous price (five years at $18 million is a bit more than half the contract that Toronto gave Amir Johnson) for a defensive-minded, shot-blocking back-up center who can be a spot starter.  He does need to work on rebounding, though.

It's not a completely horrible notion.  They're in good shape if either Anthony or their fatboy project big Dexter Pittman becomes close to an average NBA starting center.  I doubt Joel Anthony will be that guy, but it's not the sort of contract that destroys a franchise's flexibility.

The Celtics did exactly the same with Scal and have been roundly criticized for this move around here. It's a matter of perspective, I guess.

[the_Bird]

Joel Anthony and Haslem don't make quite enough to bring back an MLE-level player by themselves, and why the hell is Anthony signed through 2014-2015 anyway? 

They think he has upside.  He's basically, their attempt at a Kendrick Perkins.  If he develops, then he's under contract for not that much.  If he plateaus, it's not an outrageous price (five years at $18 million is a bit more than half the contract that Toronto gave Amir Johnson) for a defensive-minded, shot-blocking back-up center who can be a spot starter.  He does need to work on rebounding, though.

It's not a completely horrible notion.  They're in good shape if either Anthony or their fatboy project big Dexter Pittman becomes close to an average NBA starting center.  I doubt Joel Anthony will be that guy, but it's not the sort of contract that destroys a franchise's flexibility.

The Celtics did exactly the same with Scal and have been roundly criticized for this move around here. It's a matter of perspective, I guess.

... to be fair,

1. *NOBODY* ever thought Scal had any upside, not even his mama

2. It was generally assumed that Celtics ownership was not going to go into the luxury tax, whereas we know that Miami's ownership is willing to spend as much as they are allowed to spend.

[nba is the worst]

Well last year they had Quentin Richardson taking up James Jones's playing time. Plus I believe he was injured for much of the year as well.

...  well, injury is one thing, being beaten out by Q-Rich is something else entirely.  James Jones is one of those guys that just strikes me as, well...   "one of those guys" - a player that does some things OK, but ultimately is replaceable.  He's not the reason you unload Mike Miller, whose shooting is good enough where he at least MIGHT be a difference-maker for them in the playoffs.

Jones has been shooting really well for them with defenders closing and contesting - he's exceeded all expectations so far

[LooseCannon]

Joel Anthony and Haslem don't make quite enough to bring back an MLE-level player by themselves, and why the hell is Anthony signed through 2014-2015 anyway? 

They think he has upside.  He's basically, their attempt at a Kendrick Perkins.  If he develops, then he's under contract for not that much.  If he plateaus, it's not an outrageous price (five years at $18 million is a bit more than half the contract that Toronto gave Amir Johnson) for a defensive-minded, shot-blocking back-up center who can be a spot starter.  He does need to work on rebounding, though.

It's not a completely horrible notion.  They're in good shape if either Anthony or their fatboy project big Dexter Pittman becomes close to an average NBA starting center.  I doubt Joel Anthony will be that guy, but it's not the sort of contract that destroys a franchise's flexibility.

I just don't see it.  He's short to play the 5.  Gets some shot blocks, but rebounding numbers are pretty mediocre.  Last year, he played about sixteen minutes a game and averaged 3.1 boards/game.  That's one board every 5.3 minutes.  I know it's not perfect to not adjust for pace....  but that's pretty mediocre for your 5.  I mean, that's worse than Mark Blount averaged over his career.  In Perk's third season, he was playing 19 minutes a game and averaged almost six boards.  

I'm not saying that his contract is an albatros in any way - Miami doesn't care about luxury tax, and with or without Anthony's contract they basically just have the MLE to work with going forward.  I just don't see that as being anything that would *really* be that enticing as a trade asset.

He's not intended to be a trade asset, although he might be viewed favorably by rebuilding team that wanted a cheap big with upside.  He's intended to be a role player signed at a salary that is appropriate to a role player.  I also think he's the sort of player that Miami fans overvalue in the same way that some Boston fans overvalue Big Baby (who is not that much better than Joel Anthony as a rebounder).

I didn't say it was a good signing, but it's not a horrible one and it actually makes sense when you consider the Heat's salary cap situation.

And it was a given that the team would not have trade assets for the first season or two.  Their hope is to develop young players like Pittman and Chalmers or find second-round steals.

[BballTim]

As an aside I keep getting messed up by James Jones, Eddie House, and my memories of Eddie Jones.....

Its Paul Pierce, Ricky Davis, and Ricky Pierce all over again!

  Funny, I get him mixed up with Jumaine Jones.

[nba is the worst]

Joel Anthony and Haslem don't make quite enough to bring back an MLE-level player by themselves, and why the hell is Anthony signed through 2014-2015 anyway? 

They think he has upside.  He's basically, their attempt at a Kendrick Perkins.  If he develops, then he's under contract for not that much.  If he plateaus, it's not an outrageous price (five years at $18 million is a bit more than half the contract that Toronto gave Amir Johnson) for a defensive-minded, shot-blocking back-up center who can be a spot starter.  He does need to work on rebounding, though.

It's not a completely horrible notion.  They're in good shape if either Anthony or their fatboy project big Dexter Pittman becomes close to an average NBA starting center.  I doubt Joel Anthony will be that guy, but it's not the sort of contract that destroys a franchise's flexibility.

I just don't see it.  He's short to play the 5.  Gets some shot blocks, but rebounding numbers are pretty mediocre.  Last year, he played about sixteen minutes a game and averaged 3.1 boards/game.  That's one board every 5.3 minutes.  I know it's not perfect to not adjust for pace....  but that's pretty mediocre for your 5.  I mean, that's worse than Mark Blount averaged over his career.  In Perk's third season, he was playing 19 minutes a game and averaged almost six boards.  

I'm not saying that his contract is an albatros in any way - Miami doesn't care about luxury tax, and with or without Anthony's contract they basically just have the MLE to work with going forward.  I just don't see that as being anything that would *really* be that enticing as a trade asset.

He's not intended to be a trade asset, although he might be viewed favorably by rebuilding team that wanted a cheap big with upside.  He's intended to be a role player signed at a salary that is appropriate to a role player.  I also think he's the sort of player that Miami fans overvalue in the same way that some Boston fans overvalue Big Baby (who is not that much better than Joel Anthony as a rebounder).

I didn't say it was a good signing, but it's not a horrible one and it actually makes sense when you consider the Heat's salary cap situation.

And it was a given that the team would not have trade assets for the first season or two.  Their hope is to develop young players like Pittman and Chalmers or find second-round steals.

What I don't understand is what Spoelstra is doing. Since their weakness at the 5 is their main issue to address, Pittman should be getting playing time in their blowouts vs bottom feeders. He's not even activated so far. I wonder if the story will ever come out on why Dampier can't get a job - especially with teams like the Heat/Pistons needing height.

Chalmers looked good in the only game he got significant time in (but I hear his ankle isn't 100% yet).