The Good Rondo / Bad Rondo Conundrum

[BballTim]

I read Jeff's post on the front page, and I appreciate a lot of what he had to say in it.  I think he may be right that part of Rondo's difficulty in realizing his potential is that the team around him isn't really tailored to suit his talents.  When he looked best last night is when the younger, quicker guys were in to run with him.

On the other hand, as nice as the quick, athletic team of "young black stallions" he envisions sounds, I'm still skeptical about how truly competitive such a team would be.  I think you'd still need to grab an elite athletic scorer to run the floor with Rondo, and we aren't getting that without tanking.

But I suppose it's possible we could tank / rebuild even if we keep Rondo.  Surround him with young role players and the team will be exciting, but they probably won't win much.

  We haven't had an elite athletic scorer over the last few years yet we've been contenders. So, competitive enough to look like the best team in the league for stretches and make a lot of noise in the playoffs. Rondo won't win the title surrounded only by young role players, but then neither will almost anyone else. Surround him with decent talent and they'll win, just like with anyone else.

[RAcker]

Just like Paul, we have to always take the good with the bad with Rondo.  Not many players are completely without significant weaknesses either on the floor or off.  Wherever Rondo goes, he's so talented that whenever he doesn't play at a certain level consistently he 's going to deal with this type of criticism and I think that's fair.

Not that Rondo would ever read this blog, but if he did I highly doubt this type of argument would bother him.

[PosImpos]

I read Jeff's post on the front page, and I appreciate a lot of what he had to say in it.  I think he may be right that part of Rondo's difficulty in realizing his potential is that the team around him isn't really tailored to suit his talents.  When he looked best last night is when the younger, quicker guys were in to run with him.

On the other hand, as nice as the quick, athletic team of "young black stallions" he envisions sounds, I'm still skeptical about how truly competitive such a team would be.  I think you'd still need to grab an elite athletic scorer to run the floor with Rondo, and we aren't getting that without tanking.

But I suppose it's possible we could tank / rebuild even if we keep Rondo.  Surround him with young role players and the team will be exciting, but they probably won't win much.

  We haven't had an elite athletic scorer over the last few years yet we've been contenders. So, competitive enough to look like the best team in the league for stretches and make a lot of noise in the playoffs. Rondo won't win the title surrounded only by young role players, but then neither will almost anyone else. Surround him with decent talent and they'll win, just like with anyone else.

I think it's fairly well established that any team that wants to seriously contend needs to be built in a complementary way.  There's a reason why the Heat, though impressive, have not been nearly as dominant as many first thought.

[BballTim]

I read Jeff's post on the front page, and I appreciate a lot of what he had to say in it.  I think he may be right that part of Rondo's difficulty in realizing his potential is that the team around him isn't really tailored to suit his talents.  When he looked best last night is when the younger, quicker guys were in to run with him.

On the other hand, as nice as the quick, athletic team of "young black stallions" he envisions sounds, I'm still skeptical about how truly competitive such a team would be.  I think you'd still need to grab an elite athletic scorer to run the floor with Rondo, and we aren't getting that without tanking.

But I suppose it's possible we could tank / rebuild even if we keep Rondo.  Surround him with young role players and the team will be exciting, but they probably won't win much.

  We haven't had an elite athletic scorer over the last few years yet we've been contenders. So, competitive enough to look like the best team in the league for stretches and make a lot of noise in the playoffs. Rondo won't win the title surrounded only by young role players, but then neither will almost anyone else. Surround him with decent talent and they'll win, just like with anyone else.

I think it's fairly well established that any team that wants to seriously contend needs to be built in a complementary way.  There's a reason why the Heat, though impressive, have not been nearly as dominant as many first thought.

  Of course a team that wants to contend needs to be built in a complementary way. Decent shooters/scorers complement Rondo well, so do players that can run the court. A mix of both would be super. Rondo's already shown that he can get a team without a dominant scorer to the finals. You're trying to show that he needs that dominant scorer by trying to come up with non-complementary lineups that, frankly, anyone would have a hard time winning with.

  Paul and Ray played around 36 minutes each in the last game and KG played 30. It's not like we need a lineup of *only* people who can get out and run, just that it makes a big difference if we have at least 1 player besides Rondo that can.

[CelticG1]

Whatd you guys think of Rondo "not feeling like talking" to reporters yesterday?

I dont really care but its a little lame. Hes a supposed leader on the team, we just had a decent win, he had a huge game, and he refused to talk to anyone?

Admittedly I dont know how often that happens

[Celtics4ever]

Just like Kevin Garnett, right?

Didn't Paul nix the deal and state that he didn't want to come here.

http://celticshub.com/2011/11/30/broussard-chris-paul-wouldnt-sign-extension-with-celtics/

[kozlodoev]

Rondo's already shown that he can get a team without a dominant scorer to the finals.

That, or the Big 3 have already shown that sacrificing rather than taking turns to dominate the ball is the best recipe to get a team with multiple dominant scorers to the finals.

[Kuberski1]

Most of us, myself included, don't believe Rondo can be the lead guy on a contender.  In fairness, when's the last time that the 21st pick in the draft lead a team to a title?

But, it's also clear that Rondo can be a major piece on a contender - he's already done so.  The $64M question remains...who might those other pieces be now that the Big 3, perhaps save Pierce, can no longer hold that status?

[cman88]

He's done nothing in his career to indicate he couldn't lead a team with Blake Griffin, Jordan, Butler and Billups/Williams to at least as good a record as they have now.

Except for, you know, be awful at jumpshooting (such a team would have terrible floor spacing problems with Rondo at point) and defer in crunch time (CP3 takes a lot of the crunch time shots for that team).

Rondo really hasnt been that awful at jump-shooting this year...I see him nail at least 2 jumpers a game coming off screens...I think its greatly exaggerated...now, if you want to say he acts passive in the 4th quarter at times i'll agree..

and couldnt we find that "young athletic scoere" in free agency too?? the draft isnt necessarily the only way to build a team...I mean say Rondo/eric Gordon would be a nice guard tandem

[Celtics18]

Just like Kevin Garnett, right?

Didn't Paul nix the deal and state that he didn't want to come here.

http://celticshub.com/2011/11/30/broussard-chris-paul-wouldnt-sign-extension-with-celtics/

I can't believe they pay these guys and call them reporters.

[BballTim]

Rondo's already shown that he can get a team without a dominant scorer to the finals.

That, or the Big 3 have already shown that sacrificing rather than taking turns to dominate the ball is the best recipe to get a team with multiple dominant scorers to the finals.

  The big three were dominant scorers a few years ago, but they haven't been since 2009 or so. If they were still dominant scorers we would have won the title in 2010, and they would have put up more of a fight against the Heat last year.

[PosImpos]

I read Jeff's post on the front page, and I appreciate a lot of what he had to say in it.  I think he may be right that part of Rondo's difficulty in realizing his potential is that the team around him isn't really tailored to suit his talents.  When he looked best last night is when the younger, quicker guys were in to run with him.

On the other hand, as nice as the quick, athletic team of "young black stallions" he envisions sounds, I'm still skeptical about how truly competitive such a team would be.  I think you'd still need to grab an elite athletic scorer to run the floor with Rondo, and we aren't getting that without tanking.

But I suppose it's possible we could tank / rebuild even if we keep Rondo.  Surround him with young role players and the team will be exciting, but they probably won't win much.

  We haven't had an elite athletic scorer over the last few years yet we've been contenders. So, competitive enough to look like the best team in the league for stretches and make a lot of noise in the playoffs. Rondo won't win the title surrounded only by young role players, but then neither will almost anyone else. Surround him with decent talent and they'll win, just like with anyone else.

I think it's fairly well established that any team that wants to seriously contend needs to be built in a complementary way.  There's a reason why the Heat, though impressive, have not been nearly as dominant as many first thought.

  Of course a team that wants to contend needs to be built in a complementary way. Decent shooters/scorers complement Rondo well, so do players that can run the court. A mix of both would be super. Rondo's already shown that he can get a team without a dominant scorer to the finals. You're trying to show that he needs that dominant scorer by trying to come up with non-complementary lineups that, frankly, anyone would have a hard time winning with.

  Paul and Ray played around 36 minutes each in the last game and KG played 30. It's not like we need a lineup of *only* people who can get out and run, just that it makes a big difference if we have at least 1 player besides Rondo that can.

Again I have to go back to the basic argument I have to reiterate so often . . . we're not getting that elite talent with which to win a title, whether we're putting it around Rondo or somebody else, unless at some point we get high draft picks.

A team with Rondo as its best player and a bunch of complementary scorers (the kind you get in free agency or the late lottery / middle of the 1st round) would not be any better than the current Nuggets, or the Hawks of the past few years.

So I guess I don't disagree with you that if you put the right amount and kind of talent around Rondo, the team will be one of the best in the league.  But I disagree with the notion that you can build around Rondo specifically, as the centerpiece and best player on the team, and expect to go far.

[BballTim]

I read Jeff's post on the front page, and I appreciate a lot of what he had to say in it.  I think he may be right that part of Rondo's difficulty in realizing his potential is that the team around him isn't really tailored to suit his talents.  When he looked best last night is when the younger, quicker guys were in to run with him.

On the other hand, as nice as the quick, athletic team of "young black stallions" he envisions sounds, I'm still skeptical about how truly competitive such a team would be.  I think you'd still need to grab an elite athletic scorer to run the floor with Rondo, and we aren't getting that without tanking.

But I suppose it's possible we could tank / rebuild even if we keep Rondo.  Surround him with young role players and the team will be exciting, but they probably won't win much.

  We haven't had an elite athletic scorer over the last few years yet we've been contenders. So, competitive enough to look like the best team in the league for stretches and make a lot of noise in the playoffs. Rondo won't win the title surrounded only by young role players, but then neither will almost anyone else. Surround him with decent talent and they'll win, just like with anyone else.

I think it's fairly well established that any team that wants to seriously contend needs to be built in a complementary way.  There's a reason why the Heat, though impressive, have not been nearly as dominant as many first thought.

  Of course a team that wants to contend needs to be built in a complementary way. Decent shooters/scorers complement Rondo well, so do players that can run the court. A mix of both would be super. Rondo's already shown that he can get a team without a dominant scorer to the finals. You're trying to show that he needs that dominant scorer by trying to come up with non-complementary lineups that, frankly, anyone would have a hard time winning with.

  Paul and Ray played around 36 minutes each in the last game and KG played 30. It's not like we need a lineup of *only* people who can get out and run, just that it makes a big difference if we have at least 1 player besides Rondo that can.

Again I have to go back to the basic argument I have to reiterate so often . . . we're not getting that elite talent with which to win a title, whether we're putting it around Rondo or somebody else, unless at some point we get high draft picks.

A team with Rondo as its best player and a bunch of complementary scorers (the kind you get in free agency or the late lottery / middle of the 1st round) would not be any better than the current Nuggets, or the Hawks of the past few years.

So I guess I don't disagree with you that if you put the right amount and kind of talent around Rondo, the team will be one of the best in the league.  But I disagree with the notion that you can build around Rondo specifically, as the centerpiece and best player on the team, and expect to go far.

  That's mainly semantics. According to you, the league's chock full of players better than Rondo. Grab 1, maybe two of them and you'll be doing the same thing only not trying to label it "building around Rondo" or "making Rondo your centerpiece". Lets face it, if we keep Rondo we're probably going to have at least 1 player who scores more than him, so many of the posters here will think that player's better than Rondo no matter what.

[OmarSekou]

So, a question.

Did you see how pumped up Garnett was when Rondo made those 4 consecutive FTs in the end of the Bulls game? No idea what he was saying, but I suppose it was good rather than bad.

Rondo, though, looked like he wanted no part of it at all. Moreover, at halftime he sprinted to the Bulls exit, avoiding the media and his teammates.

What the heck is going on?!

A good thing about KG is it's easy to read his lips. He was saying something like "It's all you baby!!! You got this Rondo!!! Do your thing Rondo!!!" And Rondo wanted no part of it because he's just not that type of dude. I bet he hates being touched or yelled at even if it's positive. He low key. Rondo's a wallflower who happens to double as the best dancer in the school.

[Celtics18]

I read Jeff's post on the front page, and I appreciate a lot of what he had to say in it.  I think he may be right that part of Rondo's difficulty in realizing his potential is that the team around him isn't really tailored to suit his talents.  When he looked best last night is when the younger, quicker guys were in to run with him.

On the other hand, as nice as the quick, athletic team of "young black stallions" he envisions sounds, I'm still skeptical about how truly competitive such a team would be.  I think you'd still need to grab an elite athletic scorer to run the floor with Rondo, and we aren't getting that without tanking.

But I suppose it's possible we could tank / rebuild even if we keep Rondo.  Surround him with young role players and the team will be exciting, but they probably won't win much.

  We haven't had an elite athletic scorer over the last few years yet we've been contenders. So, competitive enough to look like the best team in the league for stretches and make a lot of noise in the playoffs. Rondo won't win the title surrounded only by young role players, but then neither will almost anyone else. Surround him with decent talent and they'll win, just like with anyone else.

I think it's fairly well established that any team that wants to seriously contend needs to be built in a complementary way.  There's a reason why the Heat, though impressive, have not been nearly as dominant as many first thought.

  Of course a team that wants to contend needs to be built in a complementary way. Decent shooters/scorers complement Rondo well, so do players that can run the court. A mix of both would be super. Rondo's already shown that he can get a team without a dominant scorer to the finals. You're trying to show that he needs that dominant scorer by trying to come up with non-complementary lineups that, frankly, anyone would have a hard time winning with.

  Paul and Ray played around 36 minutes each in the last game and KG played 30. It's not like we need a lineup of *only* people who can get out and run, just that it makes a big difference if we have at least 1 player besides Rondo that can.

Again I have to go back to the basic argument I have to reiterate so often . . . we're not getting that elite talent with which to win a title, whether we're putting it around Rondo or somebody else, unless at some point we get high draft picks.

A team with Rondo as its best player and a bunch of complementary scorers (the kind you get in free agency or the late lottery / middle of the 1st round) would not be any better than the current Nuggets, or the Hawks of the past few years.

So I guess I don't disagree with you that if you put the right amount and kind of talent around Rondo, the team will be one of the best in the league.  But I disagree with the notion that you can build around Rondo specifically, as the centerpiece and best player on the team, and expect to go far.

If I remember correctly, we were able to use a bunch of of late first rounders and second rounders to get Kevin Garnett to team up with the late lottery Paul Pierce. 

Luckily, though, we were able to tank for the rights to the transcendent talent known as Jeff Green and turn him into Ray Allen.

Rondo's personality, however, I guess prevents us from getting any talented players to come play alongside him.  Never mind the fact that he's half as cheap as the other elite point guards in the league.