The Good Rondo / Bad Rondo Conundrum

[Fafnir]

If you look at Pierce's stats you seem the same effect.

He shoots or gets to the line slightly more on a per minute basis in losses but shoots a worse percentage from the field.

I didn't say Pierce doesn't suffer from the same problem at his stage of his career. The fact that he does is actually what will ultimately expose Rondo. We're already seeing some of that.

The same FG% woes also show up for LBJ and Kevin Durant. Though Durant shoots less in losses and LBJ shoots around the same (both shoot a heck of a lot more than Pierce/Rondo)

The idea that the FG% of your primary offensive players in a W/L split tells you anything seems rather silly to me. TS% or more crudely FG% is the number one stat that correlates to wins in the league.

Especially when in several of Rondo's big scoring games it was the overall team defensive effort that was lacking. One more team stop here or there and the splits would look a lot different as far as PPG and amount of shots. (and the FG% would be skewed even more)

[kozlodoev]

If you look at Pierce's stats you seem the same effect.

He shoots or gets to the line slightly more on a per minute basis in losses but shoots a worse percentage from the field.

I didn't say Pierce doesn't suffer from the same problem at his stage of his career. The fact that he does is actually what will ultimately expose Rondo. We're already seeing some of that.

The same FG% woes also show up for LBJ and Kevin Durant. Though Durant shoots less in losses and LBJ shoots around the same (both shoot a heck of a lot more than Pierce/Rondo)

You mean the same LBJ that we laughed at for not being able to do it himself in Cleveland?

[Celtics4ever]

Paul would not have wanted to come here regardless or how many wanted him here.

[kozlodoev]

Paul would not have wanted to come here regardless or how many wanted him here.

Just like Kevin Garnett, right?

Regardless, this discussion is about Rondo, not about Paul.

[BballTim]

If you look at Pierce's stats you seem the same effect.

He shoots or gets to the line slightly more on a per minute basis in losses but shoots a worse percentage from the field.

I didn't say Pierce doesn't suffer from the same problem at his stage of his career. The fact that he does is actually what will ultimately expose Rondo. We're already seeing some of that.

  It's not this stage of his career, look at the career stats for the people I cited. It's something that would obviously happen to most key players, not just Rondo.

[BballTim]

So, Rondo?

A guy named Paul Pierce who averaged 19 pts, 6 rebounds and 3.5 assists per game feels left out.

  I don't think that 19/6/3 really beats out 16/6/9. Rondo also had the better +/-. You'd have had a better case going with KG.

[anthony83]

The Rondo we saw yesterday vs Bulls is the Rondo that we want, with energy, with determination and motivation.

[OmarSekou]

Rondo is our best player. Can we win a championship where Rondo is the best player? Yes. We were a game away 2 years ago and he was arguably the best guy on the team then (or in a similar role to the one he's in now).

Can he ever be the single driving force that leads us to a title? Probably not. Not a lot of players can. Kobe's done it, Wade's done it, Dirk's done it, and Lebron and Howard got their teams to the championship. There hasn't been a recent point guard whose done it. I think we have to go back to Magic and Isiah to find one.

Rondo's a natural facilitator and not a guy who can put up points night in and night out or close out games. It would be great if he could develop that, but with the tools he has right now, he's the ideal fit for our team. If we could get one of those elite elite guys for Rondo then we should do it. But even trading for another elite PG (Westbrook, Parker, Rose, Nash, Williams, Paul) might not be worth it, let alone a consistently solid player (Lawson, Nelson, Duhon, Jennings, Teague) or a younger guy with upside.

[PosImpos]

He's done nothing in his career to indicate he couldn't lead a team with Blake Griffin, Jordan, Butler and Billups/Williams to at least as good a record as they have now.

Except for, you know, be awful at jumpshooting (such a team would have terrible floor spacing problems with Rondo at point) and defer in crunch time (CP3 takes a lot of the crunch time shots for that team).

[EJPLAYA]

The Rondo we saw yesterday vs Bulls is the Rondo that we want, with energy, with determination and motivation.

You mean the Rondo who lined up against CJ Watson instead of Derrick Rose?! You give me that stat line against their star instead of their bench guy and I might believe he could lead us to a championship. Also, you give me a little consistency from him when it matters rather than every once in awhile and I'd be a little more inclined to believe as well.  Rondo can't lead us anywhere because they'll just stick Lebron, or Deng, or Kobe on him in crunch time an he'll fade away in the fourth as usual.

[PosImpos]

I read Jeff's post on the front page, and I appreciate a lot of what he had to say in it.  I think he may be right that part of Rondo's difficulty in realizing his potential is that the team around him isn't really tailored to suit his talents.  When he looked best last night is when the younger, quicker guys were in to run with him.

On the other hand, as nice as the quick, athletic team of "young black stallions" he envisions sounds, I'm still skeptical about how truly competitive such a team would be.  I think you'd still need to grab an elite athletic scorer to run the floor with Rondo, and we aren't getting that without tanking.

But I suppose it's possible we could tank / rebuild even if we keep Rondo.  Surround him with young role players and the team will be exciting, but they probably won't win much.

[kozlodoev]

So, a question.

Did you see how pumped up Garnett was when Rondo made those 4 consecutive FTs in the end of the Bulls game? No idea what he was saying, but I suppose it was good rather than bad.

Rondo, though, looked like he wanted no part of it at all. Moreover, at halftime he sprinted to the Bulls exit, avoiding the media and his teammates.

What the heck is going on?!

[BballTim]

He's done nothing in his career to indicate he couldn't lead a team with Blake Griffin, Jordan, Butler and Billups/Williams to at least as good a record as they have now.

Except for, you know, be awful at jumpshooting (such a team would have terrible floor spacing problems with Rondo at point) and defer in crunch time (CP3 takes a lot of the crunch time shots for that team).

  First of all, Rondo's not, you know, an awful jumpshooter. Secondly, the spacing wouldn't be too bad. Billups/Williams/Foye and the like as well as Butler all provide spacing, in fact Griffin takes about as many long jumpers as KG. What you would get is a better version of what we saw yesterday, with Griffin and Jordan providing better support on the break than Wilcox/Johnson. We had 33 fast break points yesterday because Rondo is devastating on the break when he actually has people who can run with him. Stick him on a team where he doesn't have to choose between going alone against the transition defense or pulling it back while his older teammates make their way up court and you'll see a lot more out of him than you do now.

[Donoghus]

So, a question.

Did you see how pumped up Garnett was when Rondo made those 4 consecutive FTs in the end of the Bulls game? No idea what he was saying, but I suppose it was good rather than bad.

Rondo, though, looked like he wanted no part of it at all. Moreover, at halftime he sprinted to the Bulls exit, avoiding the media and his teammates.

What the heck is going on?!

IMO, he's never had the thickest of skins.  Think the media and criticisms get to him at times.

[Eddie20]

So, a question.

Did you see how pumped up Garnett was when Rondo made those 4 consecutive FTs in the end of the Bulls game? No idea what he was saying, but I suppose it was good rather than bad.

Rondo, though, looked like he wanted no part of it at all. Moreover, at halftime he sprinted to the Bulls exit, avoiding the media and his teammates.

What the heck is going on?!

He's difficult to put it mildly.

After yesterday's game:

Reporters waited patiently for both Rondo and Garnett following Sunday's win, but 75 minutes after the final buzzer, the media was informed that Rondo would not be talking. Without his voice, we're left to analyze what Garnett and coach Doc Rivers said about his effort.