i was basically agreeing that rondo shouldnt be traded, for any superstar, cp3 was just a name drop(people consider him a superstar)and theres too much trade rondo for cp3 talks. in my opinion rondos a better all around player, as where cp3 is a good passer but most of his assist come from his ability to score, people sag off rondo and he is still able to make assist after assist, no its not because of the players around him i believe he can do this on any team, he makes these old guys on our team look good (not downing any of them). our offense struggles without rondo and the only other person that can create his shot is pierce. rondo and pierce are our superstars and thats all we need honestly its all about the supporting cast.
but my argument is dirk isnt the best player in the nba. the other guy basically try to say that dirk is a superstar, dirks superstar years are over hes a great clutch scorer thats a mismatch and thats about it.
also it takes good teamplay to not get blownout in that first half when your best player is struggling
superstars sell jerseys, TEAMS WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS
Dirk isn't the best player in the NBA, but he is a superstar. How is he not?? even our very own KG can't contain him and he's freakin' KG! i'm not too much of a stat junkie but i'll throw these out right now: 27.7/8.1/2.5, shooting 49% from the field, 46% from 3 and 94% from the FT. That's Dirk's stats in the playoffs. he is a mismatch every time he's on the floor. he's a superstar.
a lot of the Rondo backers here are touting Rondo's team-mentality, and that one poster was saying how it's great he shoots 41% from mid-range jumpers and if he could up that to 45% then he'd be terrific. Those are all true, and Rondo is a good player. Meanwhile, CP3 already shoots better AND has a team-mentality as well. Rondo is a better defender than CP3 but not by much. CP3 is a much better offensive player.
Their court vision is about equal though. You don't think CP3 can run our offense? It's a complicated offense and Rondo gets so many assists from running it, but it's also a product of our personnel. We couldn't run this type of offense in the Big Al days, even if they had Rondo's experience then. As you've said so many times, TEAMS matter so much. and i agree.
If you watched every game of that NOH-LAL series, whenever the ball was out of CP3's hands, the team looked absolutely lost. absolutely NO ONE could make a play, though Ariza would sometimes hit a lucky shot. but of course, let's all conveniently forget to mention that CP3 has no other playmaker on his team. Give CP3 other high BBIQ players (like RA,PP,KG) and he'd do great. Give Rondo a team of Bellinelli, Ariza, Landry and Okafor and he won't get past LAL either. They're both great players. CP3 is just better.
CP3 is a good player right now hes got the edge over rondo, and only because of his scoring ability. but rondo will be better then him by the end of his career and he still does everything else better then cp3. their court vision is not equal rondo is the second best passer in the league after steve nash.
the numbers rondo put up in the beginning of the season were insane john stockton numbers. give rondo an athletic team and a dominant big man and he would average 15 assist a game garunteed! i dont wanna here that rondo got a better team excuse its killin me. because our offense is terrible without rondo on the floor. our vets had career highs in shooting this year because of rondo. the same rondo that averaged a triple double against the bulls without kg. everyone said it was one of the best playoff performances ever!
rondo made shaq look good this year **** you gotta give ariza and david west some credit they are good too. that hornets team aint all bad. david west would probly be the second best scorer on the celtics if he were here and they have a better center then us in okafor lets be real here.
ok, let's conveniently drop the Dirk argument.
back to Rondo and CP3...
Rondo is not the 2nd best passer. As a matter of fact, i'd put him up there equal with Nash. Along with Kidd and CP3. They're players who have excellent court vision and will make the correct play almost every single time. To say one is better than the other is negligible. Once you're at an elite level, you're elite. Minimal differences don't make a difference.
david west (injured) and ariza are alright. but see, we're comparing them to guys like Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett. not Delonte West, Jeff Green and Big Baby. David West has got a nice jumpshot but let's be honest, David West would not be starting on our team. Ariza was downright terrible in Houston. The fact that CP3 made him look good again is a testament to his skill. That NOH team (except PG) is inferior to our team in every single spot, and depending on who we have for Center, a healthy Shaq is better than Okafor and JO is about the same as Okafor.
as for defense and rebounding, it's all about what you present in an argument. You'll say stuff like Rondo racks up steals like crazy and has toughness blah blah. So i'll pre-empt that and say that CP3 racks up a bunch of steals as well (led the league a couple of times i think) and is also plenty tough. Then you'll say Rondo is an extremely talented rebounder for his position, so i'll pre-empt that and say that CP3 is a fine rebounder for a PG as well with a rebounding rate of 6.9 (rondo is 7.2). Then you're gonna say Rondo is a much better OFFENSIVE rebounder and i'll concede that point. However, the C's were 30th in offensive rebounding so i dunno. you lose a little on Rondo's strengths of rebounding and D, but gain so much on offense.
i don't wanna hear about crap like Rondo having an athletic team and all of a sudden we're great. Our team is great. Put Rondo with guys like Iguodala, Gerald Wallace and J-Smoove and you would have a regular season-team. That means, they do great in the regular season (maybe win 55 games?) and then flame out once the playoffs hit. Simply because there's no spacing. The game slows down and if you're put in a half-court setting, the team will have a hard time producing points. Much harder than our current team, that's for sure.
Put CP3 in with PP-RA-KG and you have a champion. Terrific D and terrific O. i don't see how CP3's impact on our offense would be zero (as you claim). Teams sag off Rondo so much that it hurts everyone else. It may not be evident as much during the regular season, but come playoff time, it matters. that's why we want him taking that 15-18 foot jumper even if it misses. You can read it in many game threads. It's just to make the opponents respect the shot. You think they'd give CP3 that much space to shoot an 18 foot jumper?
Our team has to work so, so, so hard to get a decent look. everything has to run perfectly. Luckily for us, we have the personnel to be able to run things perfectly and that's why we're contenders. RA,PP,KG are all brilliant. I hate it when posters short-change our vets, as if they're replaceable by some athletic dunker. Josh Smith will not make us a contender. Our big 3 are crazy smart and skilled. Props to Rondo for knowing how to run that offense, but our players are extremely smart. Guys like Ariza, Bellinelli and Carl Landry can't do that.
It's not like i'm trading Rondo for just anyone. This isn't Devin Harris or Raymond Felton we're talking about. It's Chris Paul. The usage argument can go both ways. You can say that one player becomes less of a focal point and his raw stats will suffer. Or you can say that his usage goes down and his efficiency shoots up (ala Paul Pierce).
and one last thing, if the passes you've seen him make aren't as flashy as some of the passes you've seen Rondo makes, then i'm sorry you think that matters. because i'll always go for substance over style, and wins over highlights any day.
Topic: Trade ideas: Rondo should be untouchable (Read 31591 times)