Would you do this deal for Eddy Curry?

[Who]

You honestly think Donny Walsh would turn down $9mil in additional 2010 cap space over Danilo Gallinari? You think James Dolan would let him do that, after 15 years without any? You think Lebron or Wade or wheoever is going to pick the Knicks due to Gallinari?

Yes, I definitely think Donnie Walsh and the Knicks turn down a trade that involves Gallinari + Jeffries in a salary dump. I also think he turns a trade that involves Gallinari + Jeffries + Curry in a salary dump.

I disagree that it would be worthwhile for the Knicks to turn down the Jeffries + Gallinari option. I agree that it would be worthwhile for the Knicks to do the Jeffries + Gallinari + Curry option.

Unfortunately, despite the clear value that's there (the added likelihood of top players joining when there's the capacity for other top players to arrive with them), I cannot see Donnie Walsh going that route.

[ssspence]

You honestly think Donny Walsh would turn down $9mil in additional 2010 cap space over Danilo Gallinari? You think James Dolan would let him do that, after 15 years without any? You think Lebron or Wade or wheoever is going to pick the Knicks due to Gallinari?

Yes, I definitely think Donnie Walsh and the Knicks turn down a trade that involves Gallinari + Jeffries in a salary dump. I also think he turns a trade that involves Gallinari + Jeffries + Curry in a salary dump.

I disagree that it would be worthwhile for the Knicks to turn down the Jeffries + Gallinari option. I agree that it would be worthwhile for the Knicks to do the Jeffries + Gallinari + Curry option.

Unfortunately, despite the clear value that's there (the added likelihood of top players joining when there's the capacity for other top players to arrive with them), I cannot see Donnie Walsh going that route.

They wouldn't give up Danilo Gallinari to shed BOTH Curry and Jeffries?

You're misunderstanding of the Knicks priorities (i.e, to keep Gallinari over shedding salary) seems to go hand in hand with your projection of his game. And if the Knicks in fact turned down a deal like that, D'Antoni is out of the there as soon as he can find a way out.

Again, reaching...

[Chris]

I would be pretty surprised if Donny Walsh would turn down the ability to shed Jared Jeffries over Gallinari.

There was a strong rumour last year that had Donnie Walsh turning down a Jeffries salary dump over Nate Robinson. A player that doesn't figure in their long term plans, unlike Gallinari.

I think Donnie values Gallinari above anyone else on that Knicks team. Plus, that Gallo's development is one of the biggest keys to his free agency plan (since they want some talent on the roster to entice FAs).

Yeah, I think Donnie values talent over a little extra cap space.  They have so little talent already, he is not going to give up the little that they have just to get a little more room. 

That's the thing, the $10-13 million (DG+JJ or DG+EC) more in space could mean the difference is signing that 2nd or 3rd major piece for the Knicks next off-season.

Except they would then have to fill the entire rest of their roster with vet minimum players.  Do you think Lebron and Bosh are going to go there to play with Jordan Hill, Willson Chandler, and 9 vet minimum players?

 

Some pretty [dang] good players are going to sign those deals to play with those guys. And they'll use the MLE every year and the LLE every other year in the process.

Look at it this way: is Lebron going to resign with the Cavs current roster? How much better are they? Take him off that team and they're one of the worst teams in the league.

But they are still better than the Knicks.  

And its not about the Cavs.  It is about teams like the Heat and the Nets.  The Nets have a much better core than the Knicks.  Put Lebron on a team with Harris, Lopez, Courtney Lee, CDR, Yi, Terrence Williams, and it is much better than a team with Bosh, and a bunch of garbage players.

And I think Donnie Walsh is smart enough to know this.  Isiah put him in a big hole, but he is not going to compound the problem by throwing away every decent player they have.

[Who]

I've gotten a little lost here. Let me try and get my ducks in order here ...

(1) I'm a big fan of Gallinari. I think he has the potential to be a perennial All-Star (possibly more).

(2) Gallinari is currently a worse player than Ray Allen because of his defense. I reckon he can come close to Ray's offensive value + provide better rebounding.

(3) Main reason for acquiring Gallo over Ray would be 3-5 years from now rather than the next two seasons. Plus, going forward beyond those next five years.

(4) I don't think the Knicks do this trade. My interest in the trade idea is whether there's value here for the Celtics in this specific trade + whether a similar trade with the same principles in mind (large salary payout for good long term talent with a small decrease in current talent) would have value for the Celtics.

The question is, is that team better than if they simply resigned Ray for $8 million, House for $3 million, and then used the MLE (and the salary would still be lower than the one you proposed)?  Personally, I think it is significantly worse.  

(1) House for $3 million + MLE + filling out the rest of the roster ... is equal in my mind to filling out the C's roster for $10 million (similar cost, little less) + Gallinari.

(2) Jeffries is roughly the same cost as Ray Allen

(3) Difference in team's salaries is basically Eddy Curry's contract.

(4) I expect the gap to close again between Ray and Gallinari next season. That would make the team comparable talent wise under either scenario. If Gallinari can make a large improvement, then he can pass out Ray Allen as an individual player and improve the Celtics in the process.

(5) The cost of Eddy Curry's contract ($22.5 million after luxury taxes) will provide no added benefit to this year's Celtics team and possibly no benefit to next year's team. I do expect it to make this year's team worse, but by a small margin, but do not expect it to make next year's team worse. The benefits from this added cost will arrive in subsequent seasons.

(6) I don't know whether the Celtics brass would be willing to take on that financial cost with no definite benefit for the next two seasons. I don't think the finances are so far out of hand ($85 mil similar to this season's wage bill) that they definitely reject it ... but it is a large cost. Benefit worth the cost? Depends on their willingness to take on those losses. Could go either way, 67-33 against would be my guess.

[Who]

The Knicks could shed Jeffries contract by coupling Jeffries with David Lee and shopping that package to a contender for an expiring contract.

There's no sign that they've done this.

The Knicks could have + could still get rid of Jeffries contract by offering up their 2009 lottery pick for an expiring contract.

There's no sign that they've done this.

The Knicks could get rid of Jeffries contract by offering up Gallinari in a trade.

There's no sign that they've done this.

Nothing that Donnie Walsh has done has indicated a willingness to sacrifice his talent, particularly his young talent, to create additional cap space.

---------------------------------------------------------

I've wanted Donnie to dump Nate + Lee + lottery pick since the start of the 2008/09 season for cap space.

I think it's the Knicks best play and quite possibly his only play for the 2010 free agency. But Donnie continues to show no intent in any moves along these lines. It's a shame, and it's a mistake, but it's what he's doing.

[ssspence]

I would be pretty surprised if Donny Walsh would turn down the ability to shed Jared Jeffries over Gallinari.

There was a strong rumour last year that had Donnie Walsh turning down a Jeffries salary dump over Nate Robinson. A player that doesn't figure in their long term plans, unlike Gallinari.

I think Donnie values Gallinari above anyone else on that Knicks team. Plus, that Gallo's development is one of the biggest keys to his free agency plan (since they want some talent on the roster to entice FAs).

Yeah, I think Donnie values talent over a little extra cap space.  They have so little talent already, he is not going to give up the little that they have just to get a little more room. 

That's the thing, the $10-13 million (DG+JJ or DG+EC) more in space could mean the difference is signing that 2nd or 3rd major piece for the Knicks next off-season.

Except they would then have to fill the entire rest of their roster with vet minimum players.  Do you think Lebron and Bosh are going to go there to play with Jordan Hill, Willson Chandler, and 9 vet minimum players?

 

Some pretty [dang] good players are going to sign those deals to play with those guys. And they'll use the MLE every year and the LLE every other year in the process.

Look at it this way: is Lebron going to resign with the Cavs current roster? How much better are they? Take him off that team and they're one of the worst teams in the league.

But they are still better than the Knicks.  

And its not about the Cavs.  It is about teams like the Heat and the Nets.  The Nets have a much better core than the Knicks.  Put Lebron on a team with Harris, Lopez, Courtney Lee, CDR, Yi, Terrence Williams, and it is much better than a team with Bosh, and a bunch of garbage players.

And I think Donnie Walsh is smart enough to know this.  Isiah put him in a big hole, but he is not going to compound the problem by throwing away every decent player they have.

Do the Nets have a better core than the Knicks? Yes. Either way. So if that's what it's about, this discussion is moot. And you're discounting the difference between playing in mid-town, and playing at the Meadowlands. I don't want to hear this Brooklyn stuff. It will take just as long if longer to get there as it would the Knicks to improve their role players.

Don't discount the fact that after all these years of junk he's played with, Lebron -- an egomaniac -- would likely enjoy choosing out the players put around him.

Let's say he goes to Walsh and Dolan and agrees to sign with the Knicks provide he has sign off on personnel decisions. The Knicks will do anything to get him to come there. They agree -- he, Bosh and Wade all agree to sign for a reasonable % of their market value (that they make back in endorsements anyway). The Knicks have the 3 of them, Toney Douglas at the point, Jordan Hill starts at C (why not on a D'Antoni team), Wilson Chandler off the bench whoever they can resign from this years team and 3, 4 guys they convince to come play on vet min deals. That's just year one. 

Look, to think this isn't possible because of one fragile lottery pick is just naive. Get in Lebron's head -- he loves himself. He wants to do it his way, and The Knicks will give him that.

If they can't even sign one other guy to a deal worth more than 15mil, he's not going. It's over.

Meanwhile, I wold be shocked if any team much less the Celtics takes Jeffries or Curry off The Knicks' hands. If you were an NBA GM, would you for anything less than a high level prospect, and if so, why?

[ssspence]

The Knicks could shed Jeffries contract by coupling Jeffries with David Lee and shopping that package to a contender for an expiring contract.

There's no sign that they've done this.

The Knicks could have + could still get rid of Jeffries contract by offering up their 2009 lottery pick for an expiring contract.

There's no sign that they've done this.

The Knicks could get rid of Jeffries contract by offering up Gallinari in a trade.

There's no sign that they've done this.

Nothing that Donnie Walsh has done has indicated a willingness to sacrifice his talent, particularly his young talent, to create additional cap space.

---------------------------------------------------------

I've wanted Donnie to dump Nate + Lee + lottery pick since the start of the 2008/09 season for cap space.

I think it's the Knicks best play and quite possibly his only play for the 2010 free agency. But Donnie continues to show no intent in any moves along these lines. It's a shame, and it's a mistake, but it's what he's doing.

They don't have their pick -- Utah does. You don't think he's tried to dump Jeffries or Curry? What about all that talk about moving their pick last year to get rid of Jeffries? Might have had something to do with where they were picking...

[ssspence]

Good conversation, gents.

Either way I think it's clear that the Knicks have major major problems. I don't see anyone likely to help them just to get access to their mediocre talent.

Too bad they didn't take Gordon or Jennings!

[Who]

The Knicks could shed Jeffries contract by coupling Jeffries with David Lee and shopping that package to a contender for an expiring contract.

There's no sign that they've done this.

The Knicks could have + could still get rid of Jeffries contract by offering up their 2009 lottery pick for an expiring contract.

There's no sign that they've done this.

The Knicks could get rid of Jeffries contract by offering up Gallinari in a trade.

There's no sign that they've done this.

Nothing that Donnie Walsh has done has indicated a willingness to sacrifice his talent, particularly his young talent, to create additional cap space.

---------------------------------------------------------

I've wanted Donnie to dump Nate + Lee + lottery pick since the start of the 2008/09 season for cap space.

I think it's the Knicks best play and quite possibly his only play for the 2010 free agency. But Donnie continues to show no intent in any moves along these lines. It's a shame, and it's a mistake, but it's what he's doing.

They don't have their pick -- Utah does. You don't think he's tried to dump Jeffries or Curry? What about all that talk about moving their pick last year to get rid of Jeffries? Might have had something to do with where they were picking...

I was referring to their 2009 lottery pick. The one used to select Jordan Hill.

There were a few rumours about the Knicks trying to trade a pick. More ideas from sports writers than actual rumours. Anyway, those trade idea/rumours were trades for talent rather than a salary dump. And most of those rumours had Donnie Walsh rejecting offers from other teams or trying an outrageous bid for a very good player/prospect that he couldn't pull off. Not salary dumps.

The Jeffries/Hughes + lottery pick trade that I remember most of all was with the Washington Wizards in exchange for the Wizards pick + some hanger on's. Anyway, the trade had the Knicks trading up in the draft to get a better prospect. Not sacrificing it in a salary dump, but using it to acquire a more talent.
 

You don't think he's tried to dump Jeffries or Curry?

Donnie Walsh has definitely tried to move both players ... but I don't think he's been willing to sacrifice his young talent in order to move those players.

There's no question that Donnie would have been able to find a trade partner if he was willing to offer Gallinari or the lottery pick + Jeffries for an expiring contract. No question. None at all. The Knicks definitely would have found a trade partner for that type of package.

If Donnie wanted to make that deal then he would have had ample opportunity to make it by now.

* Will Donnie couple Gallinari with Jeffries in a trade for talent? Definitely. If it improves their talent base he'll make that trade.
* Will he do it for cap flexibility? He's shown no intent. He's shown a lack of interest in that idea.

[ssspence]

The Knicks could shed Jeffries contract by coupling Jeffries with David Lee and shopping that package to a contender for an expiring contract.

There's no sign that they've done this.

The Knicks could have + could still get rid of Jeffries contract by offering up their 2009 lottery pick for an expiring contract.

There's no sign that they've done this.

The Knicks could get rid of Jeffries contract by offering up Gallinari in a trade.

There's no sign that they've done this.

Nothing that Donnie Walsh has done has indicated a willingness to sacrifice his talent, particularly his young talent, to create additional cap space.

---------------------------------------------------------

I've wanted Donnie to dump Nate + Lee + lottery pick since the start of the 2008/09 season for cap space.

I think it's the Knicks best play and quite possibly his only play for the 2010 free agency. But Donnie continues to show no intent in any moves along these lines. It's a shame, and it's a mistake, but it's what he's doing.

They don't have their pick -- Utah does. You don't think he's tried to dump Jeffries or Curry? What about all that talk about moving their pick last year to get rid of Jeffries? Might have had something to do with where they were picking...

I was referring to their 2009 lottery pick. The one used to select Jordan Hill.

There were a few rumours about the Knicks trying to trade a pick. More ideas from sports writers than actual rumours. Anyway, those trade idea/rumours were trades for talent rather than a salary dump. And most of those rumours had Donnie Walsh rejecting offers from other teams or trying an outrageous bid for a very good player/prospect that he couldn't pull off. Not salary dumps.

The Jeffries/Hughes + lottery pick trade that I remember most of all was with the Washington Wizards in exchange for the Wizards pick + some hanger on's. Anyway, the trade had the Knicks trading up in the draft to get a better prospect. Not sacrificing it in a salary dump, but using it to acquire a more talent.
 

You don't think he's tried to dump Jeffries or Curry?

Donnie Walsh has definitely tried to move both players ... but I don't think he's been willing to sacrifice his young talent in order to move those players.

There's no question that Donnie would have been able to find a trade partner if he was willing to offer Gallinari or the lottery pick + Jeffries for an expiring contract. No question. None at all. The Knicks definitely would have found a trade partner for that type of package.

If Donnie wanted to make that deal then he would have had ample opportunity to make it by now.

* Will Donnie couple Gallinari with Jeffries in a trade for talent? Definitely. If it improves their talent base he'll make that trade.
* Will he do it for cap flexibility? He's shown no intent. He's shown a lack of interest in that idea.

Disagree that such a deal is the slam dunk you make it out to be, but it doesn't really make a difference. When the trading deadline approaches the Knicks are going to have some tough choices to make regarding that... talent.

[ToppersBsktball10]

Pray for Boston Chauffeur's around that this does not happen.

[slamtheking]

In response to the original OP's suggestion of making the deal to get a len bias type of draft pick:

The idea of taking on NY's garbage to help them unload contracts to buy big FA's all for the prospect of getting a future first from them is ludicrous.  One very big reason not to do it---the big name FA's!!  NY signs 2 top level FA's with their available money and their future pick is outside the lottery making the deal a bust both financially for the C's but talent wise as well.  You've netted a middle of the road draft pick for the C's if you're lucky and enabled an in-division rival the opportunity to sign multiple high quality FA's which at that time could make them better than the C's.

Horrible, horrible move.