Danny on T&R: We're Not Good Enough

[Neurotic Guy]

I heard a soundbite today where Danny is saying he's getting heat for the team needing help via trade and he was saying it can't happen "NOW" because it's too early and we need to wait until closer to the deadline to see who is in it and who is out of it.

Guess what Danny? If you wait until the trade deadline YOU MAY BE OUT OF IT so your logic is ridiculous.

His logic is perfectly sound. Most deals happen at the trade deadline for a reason. Teams are unwilling to lower their asking price prior to the deadline unless they are desperate to make a trade. It's when they run out of time at the deadline that they finally compromise regarding their asking price. To put it another way, trade negotiations are like the game of chicken. Whomever backs down first loses the game. If we make a deal right now, we'll probably get fleeced. At the very least, chances are we'll get a better deal at the deadline.

I think you are correct jvlalin but my guess is hodgys point might be preferring to get fleeced a bit than waiting and potentially getting nothing.  It’s also true that other teams are waiting too and will be making their best offer as the pressure rises. We lose the targeted player and it feels like we should have offered more than whatever the rumors are of what we offered. 

Personally, I don’t want Danny to overpay unless the overpayment means contending (which I don’t see).  Others here might feel overpayment is the right thing to do in order to secure a missing piece of the puzzle.

[Moranis]

I heard a soundbite today where Danny is saying he's getting heat for the team needing help via trade and he was saying it can't happen "NOW" because it's too early and we need to wait until closer to the deadline to see who is in it and who is out of it.

Guess what Danny? If you wait until the trade deadline YOU MAY BE OUT OF IT so your logic is ridiculous.

His logic is perfectly sound. Most deals happen at the trade deadline for a reason. Teams are unwilling to lower their asking price prior to the deadline unless they are desperate to make a trade. It's when they run out of time at the deadline that they finally compromise regarding their asking price. To put it another way, trade negotiations are like the game of chicken. Whomever backs down first loses the game. If we make a deal right now, we'll probably get fleeced. At the very least, chances are we'll get a better deal at the deadline.

I think you are correct jvlalin but my guess is hodgys point might be preferring to get fleeced a bit than waiting and potentially getting nothing.  It’s also true that other teams are waiting too and will be making their best offer as the pressure rises. We lose the targeted player and it feels like we should have offered more than whatever the rumors are of what we offered. 

Personally, I don’t want Danny to overpay unless the overpayment means contending (which I don’t see).  Others here might feel overpayment is the right thing to do in order to secure a missing piece of the puzzle.

I thought he was meaning that if you wait another month Boston might be so far out of it that there would be no point in doing a move.  That if you make the move now you get an extra month, which might mean the difference between winning a playoff series or two vs. not winning any series because you end up with a much lower seed.

And Danny's point wasn't about value it was about having more options open to you because more teams decide to be sellers.  With extra teams making the playoffs this year there are less teams that are clearly in seller mode right now so there just aren't very many players available.  As the deadline gets closer teams will have a more realistic view of their team and be more open to be sellers.  I mean look at the Cavs, a month ago they were in the top 8 in the East, now they are the 2nd worst team in the conference and 3rd worst team in the league.  But they are still only 2.5 games out of 10th and only 4 games out of 7th.  Another month they may very well be more like 7 or 8 games out of 10th and way more open to move on from non-core players (like the Osman's of the world). 

[hodgy03038]

Several of you make very good points and YES I do understand his logic for waiting but my point is that by waiting an extra month you aren't guaranteed to actually be in the playoffs. The earlier you get that player and I am thinking Harrison Barnes the better off you are in having the attained player meld with the team (rotations, defense, roles, etc.). By waiting you have less time to make the transition and then there are the excuses of not enough time together, no practice time, etc.

Every year at trade deadline time I wait and wait for this to be the year when we give up these valuable assets to get an actual player that will help. And every year I am disappointed. I just don't know why it's so hard for Danny to pull the trigger. As other teams flourish with trades and free agents we sit by and hope that the Grant Williams', Carsen Edwards' and (gag) Tremont Waters can step up and make contributions like a Duncan Robinson on Miami. Romeo Langford - not sure what year he will play. I am seeing improvement with Nesmith so I would trade Langford in a heartbeat if anyone wanted him along with other stuff. Danny holds onto these TPEs like he has a plan but as far as I can see he is gun shy and just won't do it.

Watch Brooklyn and Lakers and Clippers at the buyout pick up these players like Drummond and unless we TRADE for a player I don't see the desire to go to Boston and wallow in mediocrity.

Danny needs to put his big boy pants on and take a chance. Yes he could fail but I would rather fail trying than do nothing and fail as our stars get older and detached.

[Jvalin]

Danny's point wasn't about value

Here's the exact quote:

Trades during the season typically go closer to the trade deadline. Like, yeah, of course people would love to make trades earlier but you don't get the deals you want. Teams that don't care as much or they have a player (inaudible) the entire team or waiting for the best deal. Like for example, you know Isaiah Thomas. We got Isaiah Thomas in a deal during the season and it was a good trade, it was a fair trade under the circumstances and it turned out to be a really good deal for us. But at the beginning, you know, the price was way too high. Like 2 months before we weren't gonna do that deal. And so you know the deal came to us in a way. You can't force deals to happen. You can't give up too much right out of the gate and that's typically what teams are trying to do.

[GreenWarrior]

Yeah that right there tells me he hasn't learned anything from his mistakes, and just simply overvalues what he has to offer... Which is why we're in this spot to begin with.

Ugh this is so bad. Teams know we need to make a move, this has been a bad spot for ainge in the past.

We lost our bargaining positioning when we referred to our  stock pile of draft picks as assets in recent history. And danny failed to move any of em and we were forced to draft players.

Now I have no faith that he will get anything done. Danny has to win the deal and there are no deals out there for us to win... We don't have the chips.

[Vermont Green]

Danny's point wasn't about value

Here's the exact quote:

Trades during the season typically go closer to the trade deadline. Like, yeah, of course people would love to make trades earlier but you don't get the deals you want. Teams that don't care as much or they have a player (inaudible) the entire team or waiting for the best deal. Like for example, you know Isaiah Thomas. We got Isaiah Thomas in a deal during the season and it was a good trade, it was a fair trade under the circumstances and it turned out to be a really good deal for us. But at the beginning, you know, the price was way too high. Like 2 months before we weren't gonna do that deal. And so you know the deal came to us in a way. You can't force deals to happen. You can't give up too much right out of the gate and that's typically what teams are trying to do.

I trust Danny to make good deals.  At times, he makes big trades and people criticize him for being "Trader Danny".  Other times he passes and he get criticized for not pulling the trigger.  At this particular point in time for the team, I see no reason to reach or stretch to do a deal just to do a deal.  There is no deal that is going to make us an automatic title contender but there are deals that can make us better.  If the choice is to stretch and do a risky or bad deal vs. erring on the safe side and just go forward with the core team to the off season, I am fine with the safe route.  There is no need to get trigger happy on a deal right now.  Do a deal if it is a good deal.  Otherwise pass.

[NKY fan]

Danny's point wasn't about value

Here's the exact quote:

Trades during the season typically go closer to the trade deadline. Like, yeah, of course people would love to make trades earlier but you don't get the deals you want. Teams that don't care as much or they have a player (inaudible) the entire team or waiting for the best deal. Like for example, you know Isaiah Thomas. We got Isaiah Thomas in a deal during the season and it was a good trade, it was a fair trade under the circumstances and it turned out to be a really good deal for us. But at the beginning, you know, the price was way too high. Like 2 months before we weren't gonna do that deal. And so you know the deal came to us in a way. You can't force deals to happen. You can't give up too much right out of the gate and that's typically what teams are trying to do.

I trust Danny to make good deals.  At times, he makes big trades and people criticize him for being "Trader Danny".  Other times he passes and he get criticized for not pulling the trigger.  At this particular point in time for the team, I see no reason to reach or stretch to do a deal just to do a deal.  There is no deal that is going to make us an automatic title contender but there are deals that can make us better.  If the choice is to stretch and do a risky or bad deal vs. erring on the safe side and just go forward with the core team to the off season, I am fine with the safe route.  There is no need to get trigger happy on a deal right now.  Do a deal if it is a good deal.  Otherwise pass.

This logic applies 99% of the time. It is also at least partially the reason why we lost to Miami in the ECF where our lack of depth was exposed. I am not sure I trust Danny's judgement as he was obviously wrong for not trading for Vet help last year while having 3 first rounders. He gave away the best performing of those 3 draftees so far for some middling second rounders years from now. Something tells me he is of the minority GMs that value second rounders highly.

[Moranis]

Danny's point wasn't about value

Here's the exact quote:

Trades during the season typically go closer to the trade deadline. Like, yeah, of course people would love to make trades earlier but you don't get the deals you want. Teams that don't care as much or they have a player (inaudible) the entire team or waiting for the best deal. Like for example, you know Isaiah Thomas. We got Isaiah Thomas in a deal during the season and it was a good trade, it was a fair trade under the circumstances and it turned out to be a really good deal for us. But at the beginning, you know, the price was way too high. Like 2 months before we weren't gonna do that deal. And so you know the deal came to us in a way. You can't force deals to happen. You can't give up too much right out of the gate and that's typically what teams are trying to do.

well yeah that is a lot different than what was described in this thread.

That said, often the deals get better because the teams get worse.  The more out of the playoffs you are the easier it is to part with short time players.