From the teams thread:
Chicago (smokeablount):
PG: Deron Williams (07-08) / Micheal Ray Richardson (80-81) / John Wall (16-17)
SG: David Thompson (77-78) / Hersey Hawkins (96-97)
SF: Tracy McGrady (02-03) / Tayshaun Prince (04-05)
PF: Larry Nance Sr (91-92) / Blake Griffin (13-14)
C: Bob Lanier (76-77) / Brad Daugherty (92-93) / Marcus Camby (06-07)
Utah (wdleehi):
PG: Tony Parker (06-07) / Sam Cassell (03-04)
SG: Joe Johnson (09-10) / Dale Ellis (88-89)
SF: Grant Hill (96-97) / Latrell Sprewell (93-94) / Sean Elliott (95-96)
PF: Chris Bosh (06-07) / Larry Johnson (94-95) / Robert Horry (95-06)
C: Artis Gilmore (77-78) / Kevin Willis (91-92)
Memphis (celticinorlando):
PG: Kemba Walker (18-19) / Jamal Crawford (07-08)
SG: Vince Carter (00-01) / Michael Cooper (86-87) / Gail Goodrich (77-78)
SF: Alex English (82-83) / Antawn Jamison (00-01) / Josh Smith (11-12)
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge (14-15) / Horace Grant (93-94)
C: Yao Ming (08-09) / Bill Laimbeer (85-86)
Denver (Who):
PG: Kevin Johnson (89-90) / Gus Williams (78-79)
SG: Eddie Jones (98-99) / Rolando Blackman (84-85) / Fred Brown (76-77)
SF: Bernard King (83-84) / Bob Dandridge (77-78)
PF: Vin Baker (97-98) / Danny Manning (91-92) / Cliff Robinson (97-98)
C: Alonzo Mourning (99-00) / Jack Sikma (81-82)
Toronto (theswitch):
PG: Penny Hardaway (95-96) / Fat Lever (87-88) / Terrell Brandon (95-96)
SG: Paul Westphal (78-79) / Paul Pressey (85-86)
SF: Marques Johnson (78-79) / Danny Granger (08-09)
PF: Jermaine O'Neal (03-04) / Bobby Jones (76-77) / Kiki VandeWeghe (82-83)
C: Marc Gasol (12-13) / Serge Ibaka (13-14)
OKC (Celtic Fan Forever):
PG: Chauncey Billups (05-06) / Baron Davis (01-02)
SG: Dan Majerle (92-93) / Michael Redd (05-06) / Allan Houston (99-00)
SF: Peja Stojakovic (03-04) / Gerald Wallace (09-10) / Kukoc (95-96)
PF: Shawn Kemp (95-96) / Antonio McDyess (98-99)
C: Dwight Howard (10-11) / Tyson Chandler (11-12)
LA Clippers (RPGenerate):
PG: Dennis Johnson (78-79) / Jo Jo White (76-77) / Stephon Marbury (04-05)
SG: Sidney Moncrief (82-83) / World B. Free (79-80)
SF: Chris Mullin (88-89) / Ron Artest (03-04)
PF: Detlef Schrempf (94-95) / Tom Chambers (88-89) / Buck Williams (82-83)
C: Ben Wallace (03-04) / Andrew Bynum (11-12)
Orlando Magic (gouki88):
PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)
Brooklyn (Moranis):
PG: Maurice Cheeks (82-83) / Don Buse (76-77)
SG: Drazen Petrovic (92-93) / Rip Hamilton (05-06)
SF: Adrian Dantley (83-84) / Bruce Bowen (02-03)/ Jim Jackson (03-04)
PF: Amare Stoudemire (04-05) / George McGinnis (78-79) / Dan Roundfield (79-80)
C: Pau Gasol (09-10) / Dan Issel (79-80)
Cleveland (Roy H.):
PG: Mookie Blaylock (96-97) / Isaiah Thomas (16-17)
SG: Manu Ginobili (07-08) / Reggie Lewis (91-92) / J.J. Redick (15-16)
SF: Andre Iguodala (07-08) / Jamal Mashburn (02-03)
PF: Elton Brand (05-06) / Andrei Kirilenko (03-04)
C: Dikembe Mutombo (94-95) / DeMarcus Cousins (16-17) / Mehmet Okur (08-09)
Sacramento (Donoghus):
PG: Mark Price ('92-93) / Rajon Rondo ('09-10)
SG: Mitch Richmond ('94-95) / Andrew Toney ('83-84) / Doug Christie ('02-03)
SF: Shawn Marion ('05-06) / Michael Finley ('00-01)
PF: Maurice Lucas ('77-78) / Zach Randolph ('10-11) / David West ('07-08)
C: Vlade Divac ('00-01)/ Theo Ratliff ('03-04)
Washington (Kernewek):
PG: Tim Hardaway Sr. (90-91) / Gilbert Arenas (05-06) / Jason Williams (99-00)
SG: Alvin Robertson (85-86) / Tony Allen (10-11)
SF: Glen Rice (96-97) / Mark Aguirre (86-87)
PF: Rasheed Wallace (00-01) / Carlos Boozer / Derrick Coleman (93-94)
C: Joakim Noah (13-14) / Arvydas Sabonis (95-96)
So I entered the teams and made any obvious season switches where the sim wouldn't reward one's seasonal preferences over market value/metrics, to see salary caps. They are as follows:
#1 CFF - $91M
#2 Gouki - $84M
#3 Who - $80M
#4 SAB - $90M
#5 Roy - $84M
#6 Switch - $84M
#7 RPG - $87M
#8 Dons - $83M
I update depth charts 2 teams at a time between Tuesday and Sunday. The best whatifsports teams were also deep and played guys mostly 12-28 mpg, so I didn't set many guys above 35 mpg, usually one per team, and usually 2 at 32 mpg. Everyone's bench got mixed in but if teams had massive drop offs at the 11th or 12th man, those guys would play a little less.
I did a bracket tournament with reseeding strictly based on voting, best of 7, best 2 out of 3 this AM. I work on West Coast time, start at 12pm ET, but get up around 7:30am.
ROUND 1#1 Celtics Fan Forever vs #8 DonoghusCFF beat Dons 4-1, 4-0. Kemp was the likely series MVP as the focal point of the offense while Dwight put up solid offensive numbers and patrolled the paint. Peja easily contributed enough to form a big 3, routinely putting up 18-4-4. Those 3 just overwhelmed Price's heroic effort scoring and creating, routinely putting up 20 and between 6-12 assists, but it didn't matter. Dons' starters couldn't keep pace with those 3 guys, and then McDyess and GWallace would come in and absolutely clean up, particularly McDyess. CFF had about 6 forwards doing damage, plus Dwight, and Chauncey had his moments. You need a lot of talent to hang with this team.
#2 Gouki vs #7 RPGenerateRPG upset Gouki 4-3, 2-4, 4-3, winning both times as the road team in a road game 7.
Schrempf looked like the MVP of the series, having two monster games in road game 7 wins. Mullin was the more consistent alpha but Schrempf was clutch. He went for 30 twice in the series. Moncrief was assertive and versatile in road games, routinely putting up 16-5-6 seemingly every time he played away from home. Big Ben was an absolute force and even scored when needed, silencing any questions about his value in this format. DJ was volatile but when he was on, he was capable of being the best player on the team.
Webber was valiant in defeat. Had he played at PF, I think Gouki takes the series. Schrempf would not have been able to contain him and Schrempf's game 7 heroics would have been offset. But instead he matched up with Big Ben and put up big numbers, but it made life easier for Shrempf. Roy was usually good but had some stinkers that cost the team. Cummings was the clear 2nd best player on the team and played fantastic, DS had a lot of trouble but was able to do his own damage. TC was a walking 20-10, Dumars was also good and had games as a top 2 alpha.
Gouki's point guard play was steady and solid if unspectacular, and he had solid production off the bench, but the defense and clutchness of RPG won out essentially because there was just enough scoring and balance. RPG's higher sim team market value also likely made this tight.
#3 Who vs #6 theswitchAnother upset! theswitch benefitted from a trade that most believe he won at the time, dealing the #1 pick to be the first owner to field a starting five by the middle of the 4th round. Who was stuck between a murderers row of owners and routinely had to go to his 2nd and 3rd choices when things were looking smooth only a few picks away. As a result, this had upset potential.
theswitch won 4-1, 4-1, with JO/Penny winning co-MVPs of the series as JO accrued the best volume stats as a 2 way player, but Penny efficiently drove the team. The other starters and the bench provided good scoring balance, particularly Granger, Westphal, and Gasol. What was surprising about Toronto was how much JO assumed the mantle of #1 and not a guy like Penny or Westphal, and it worked.
For Denver, it was surprising how much trouble KJ had in this matchup. Penny just owned him. Mourning did well, King held his own, but it was essentially that dynamic duo holding off a mob. It may go better starting twin towers with Sikma and giving him enough minutes to get in a rhythm:
KJ
Eddie Jones
King
Sikma
Zo
I like that lineup better, I think in this matchup/sim at least, Sikma is your 3rd best player. It isn't a sim where teams shoot 40 3's a game and the older players rarely shoot them. Could tweak this.
#4 SAB vs #5 Roy HobbsSAB won 4-0, 4-3, breezing thru act 1 but experiencing heavy resistance in act 2. McGrady was unstoppable, putting up Heat Lebron offensive numbers with 20-6-6 every game and topping out at 30-8-8 and 29-13-7. Thompson, Lanier and Deron provided equal support and the bench was an angry mob led by Blake Griffin. In the 2nd act, Manu and Brand were marvelous for Roy, and IT and Mashburn came in and did damage off the bench, but the talent/depth of SAB won out.
ROUND 2#1 Celtics Fan Forever vs #7 RPGCFF won 4-0, 4-2, with Kemp overwhelming Schrempf and again taking series MVP, again a chorus line of forwards eating barbecue chicken while Dwight lived up to his billing and Chauncey cooked every 2-3 games, while rarely having bad shooting games, mostly just deferring and creating. It was a winning formula and RPG got to 1-1 and 2-2 in act 2 and looked primed to extend the series, but in the end CFF just stepped on the gas pedal and drove away.
However, it is my new thought that a round robin is necessary. Market value has RPG at the 3rd highest market value and he beat Gouki as the road team. He finished 7th has a case for 3rd best team.
#4 SAB vs #6 theswitchSAB won 4-2, 4-3, with the 1st act never really being in doubt starting 3-1 SAB, but the 2nd act being a battle. JO continued his Shaq role, switching with Penny as the alpha, but the team had very balanced scoring beyond that. But McGrady continued going scorched earth, battling Kemp as playoffs MVP (or Dwight if you prefer) and David Thompson started to emerge in pivotal games, going for 20+ on efficient shooting and getting others involved in game 5's, 6's and 7's.
Deron Williams had 1-2 games where he may have been the best player on the floor, or at least the best not named TMac. So did Penny. Lanier had one. A key difference was, JO did not have the efficiency of the other 20+ ppg scorers. John Wall started to come in and make a huge difference in small minutes windows this series, scoring more points than mins played routinely. The big 4 of TMac, Thompson, Lanier and Deron always played big as a group, Nance/Blake always added up to one monster PF game, and the bench always found ways to break even at worst.
NBA FINALSSims and recap to come. Debating doing a best of 5 here.
I also think that with the depth of teams, the only fair way to evaluate is a round robin sim. It's clear the voting and the sim disagree, and the sim isn't biased, just maybe flawed. I'm interested in doing a round robin best of 7 and seeing how things shake out, but first, the finals...
Topic: 2023 CS Historic Draft Thread - Results in OP! (Read 138715 times)