Poll

Which path would you prefer?

Re-Sign Kyrie + Trade For AD
79 (59.8%)
Re-Sign Kyrie, Don't Trade For AD & Simply Add Depth Or Moderate Upgrades Using Picks + MLE
2 (1.5%)
Let Kyrie Walk, But You Still Trade For AD & Add Depth Or Moderate Upgrades Using Picks + MLE
17 (12.9%)
Let Kyrie Walk, Don't Trade For AD & Simply Build Around The Jays + Young Core + Both Horford, Hayward
32 (24.2%)
Full On Rebuild And Tank, Baby! (Go Crazy)
2 (1.5%)

Total Members Voted: 132

Author Topic: Poll: There's Pretty Much Five Paths From Here. Which Path Would You Prefer?  (Read 4020 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19203
  • Tommy Points: 1876
Seems to me most have given up on Hayward which is disappointing.



I dont' have much hope of him returning to All-Star status at this point, but his issues seem to be mostly mental; perhaps also some strength / conditioning limitations.


I am holding out hope that he can return to being a valuable starter in the mold of Joe Ingles or Nic Batum, i.e. a 15-5-5 type of wing with good shooting percentages who helps the team gel, spaces the floor, tries on defense, and keeps the ball moving.


In any case, I think it's clear he won't have any trade value this summer so no matter what happens, I think he'll be in a Celtics uniform next year.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Offline Monkhouse

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6263
  • Tommy Points: 706
  • A true Celtic plays with heart.
Seems to me most have given up on Hayward which is disappointing.

I feel like a healthy offseason and some added motivation from this depressing MIL series will rejuvenate Hayward and he'll become a bigger factor on a regular basis next season. After an injury like he had, I would also cringe at times when he jumped on the court and landed or something like that fearing something bad. I'm sure that played a role in Hayward being less aggressive especially early on. Remember, Paul George found his form about 1.5 years after the injury but it took him a few years to regain all-star form and to be a factor in the playoffs. And this past season he looked like an MVP-caliber player for much of it.

I don't think you can compare George to Hayward. Two different injuries, and George was always a better defender. I'm just not convinced Hayward can become Allstar again... he was an Allstar on a team where he was the main focal point. I see him averaging 14 4 4 at his best to be honest. Unless he improves his shooting. 
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
We're the same and we're not; know what I'm saying? Listen
Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different

Offline mobilija

  • Gordon Hayward
  • Posts: 458
  • Tommy Points: 126
Good poll Phantom. TP for the idea

Offline Smartacus

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1724
  • Tommy Points: 157
I'm right in the middle of option 1 and 4. Totally fine with either.

Unlike Kyrie, I definitely think that Horford and Hayward could thrive as the veteran presence on a team of young upstarts. The focus of that team would be for Tatum to rediscover what he lost in his rookie season and step right back into an efficient volume scorer role, while Jaylen seeks out mismatches to punish. Our pace would soar with this team and it is arguably a near ideal Brad Stevens roster.

All that being said there is no denying that Kyrie + AD + a rebuilt Hayward + Whoever is left is the highest ceiling this team could possibly have. As others have mentioned, we need top end talent to compete against Giannis, Embiid, and possibly Kawhi. The only guy that we could realistically acquire, that is on -or above- their level is Anthony Davis.

AD is the wingman that turns Kyrie from whatever it was we saw this postseason to the efficient assassin that he was playing next to LeBron.

Either Option 1 or 4 and I think we have a worlds better basketball team in 2019/2020.

Offline philr13

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 201
  • Tommy Points: 20
I'm as sick of the Kyrie situation as anybody, but if he'll sign here you have to do it. It makes no sense to let him walk. He can always be traded later and his contract is way too valuable an asset to take a pass on it.

If he walks you recalculate the timeline. The team design didn't really change when you added him. He slipped right into the role that Thomas had before him. There's a role for a small scoring guard on this team, but it doesn't have to be one or your max players.

As for the Davis trade idea. It depends on the terms, doesn't it? Personally, I think it's very unlikely that he ends up in Boston, with or without Kyrie. With Irving and Hayward's futures on the team being in doubt, the value of Tatum, Brown, and Smart to the future of the team has increased.

Offline vjcsmoke

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2880
  • Tommy Points: 164
I know that many folks here don't like the idea of "build around Jay & Jay" because they see that as aiming for the middle.  However, I think that perspective overlooks the fact that if the team maintains cap flexibility, doesn't sign anybody to any crazy contracts, and continues to stockpile assets, there will still be plenty of options for improving the team.

The goal is to win a title.  To do that the team needs to have at least one if not multiple top tier guys to build around.  You also need those guys, and the supporting cast around them, to fit well so that they can thrive together.  On top of that, you need to be able to sustain multiple years of contention, because even historically talented teams fail to win titles given a single season (see 2011 Heat).

We've had Jay+Jay for the past two seasons.  They are not good enough to build a contender around.  Sure maybe if you wait another 3 years they will get there but the Celtics are a contending team right now.

So the answer is you have to give up one of the Jays plus your treasure stockpile of draft picks and get AD.  Resign Kyrie.  Talent ultimately wins in the playoffs.  You saw what the Bucks did to this team.  You see how the Sixers are going deep, you see how the Raptors are contending.  Because they have top talent.

This year was kind of wasted because we were trying to re-integrate Hayward but he wasn't healthy.  He was taking minutes away from Brown/Tatum but he didn't deserve them.

We're going to have to hope that Hayward can regain his all-star form next season because one of Brown/Tatum have to go.  They will not be happy with Hayward here, but guess what we pay the man 30m a year so he's going nowhere unless we can swindle the Wizards into taking him in exchange for Beal.

My guess is that the Pelicans are holding out for Tatum and did not want to cave into the Lakers.  That makes the Celtics the #1 suitor for AD this offseason.

A lineup of Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Davis, Horford can absolutely contend for the title against a Durantless GSW.

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19203
  • Tommy Points: 1876
I know that many folks here don't like the idea of "build around Jay & Jay" because they see that as aiming for the middle.  However, I think that perspective overlooks the fact that if the team maintains cap flexibility, doesn't sign anybody to any crazy contracts, and continues to stockpile assets, there will still be plenty of options for improving the team.

The goal is to win a title.  To do that the team needs to have at least one if not multiple top tier guys to build around.  You also need those guys, and the supporting cast around them, to fit well so that they can thrive together.  On top of that, you need to be able to sustain multiple years of contention, because even historically talented teams fail to win titles given a single season (see 2011 Heat).

We've had Jay+Jay for the past two seasons.  They are not good enough to build a contender around.  Sure maybe if you wait another 3 years they will get there but the Celtics are a contending team right now.



You mean the two seasons when those guys were in their 2nd and 3rd years in the league and playing supporting roles?

It is too soon to tell what kind of players Jay & Jay can become.  Our best guess at what they might look like on a team without Kyrie would have to be based on the playoffs last year when they looked pretty darn good.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Offline fairweatherfan

  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19793
  • Tommy Points: 2205
  • Be the posts you wish to see in the world.
Odds that Danny/whoever's covering for him while he recovers (let's be honest, probably Danny) has contacted New Orleans about packages for Davis already? I'd say >90% there's at least been an initial chat.

Offline Phantom255x

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12706
  • Tommy Points: 1112
  • On To Banner 18!
Seems to me most have given up on Hayward which is disappointing.



I dont' have much hope of him returning to All-Star status at this point, but his issues seem to be mostly mental; perhaps also some strength / conditioning limitations.


I am holding out hope that he can return to being a valuable starter in the mold of Joe Ingles or Nic Batum, i.e. a 15-5-5 type of wing with good shooting percentages who helps the team gel, spaces the floor, tries on defense, and keeps the ball moving.


In any case, I think it's clear he won't have any trade value this summer so no matter what happens, I think he'll be in a Celtics uniform next year.

Yeah that's fine by me, and I think he can become that kind of player (or even better) next season. This will be a big offseason for him. Last offseason was mostly rehab and just initial steps getting back on to the court. Now after essentially playing an entire season post-injury, Hayward can do so much more on-court stuff this summer and be more aggressive. In Utah, an underrated part of Hayward's game was his aggressiveness driving the hoop and drawing fouls. We didn't see much of that this past season and this past series but I think as you said, a lot of that was mental and due to strength/conditioning not being 100%.

Hayward was never 100% this season and he admitted this himself. But he was probably 75%+ and hopefully by next season he's at 95% or better.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Offline Phantom255x

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12706
  • Tommy Points: 1112
  • On To Banner 18!
Good poll Phantom. TP for the idea

Thanks. Lot of good discussion here which I hoped for, but the poll itself seems a lot more lopsided than I expected  :P

Maybe a lot of the anti-Kyrie crowd is still asleep or out right now lol
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Offline CelticsQuestFor18

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 203
  • Tommy Points: 26
Odds that Danny/whoever's covering for him while he recovers (let's be honest, probably Danny) has contacted New Orleans about packages for Davis already? I'd say >90% there's at least been an initial chat.

Maybe, but they could also be waiting for the Draft Lottery to see where the picks land. For example, do the Knicks get #1 pick? Does Kings stay 14 or move up a ton? That could also affect how the trade suitors for AD look depending on what assets they possess.

Offline fairweatherfan

  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19793
  • Tommy Points: 2205
  • Be the posts you wish to see in the world.
Odds that Danny/whoever's covering for him while he recovers (let's be honest, probably Danny) has contacted New Orleans about packages for Davis already? I'd say >90% there's at least been an initial chat.

Maybe, but they could also be waiting for the Draft Lottery to see where the picks land. For example, do the Knicks get #1 pick? Does Kings stay 14 or move up a ton? That could also affect how the trade suitors for AD look depending on what assets they possess.

Oh yeah, no way New Orleans is pulling the trigger yet, too many variables. Shortly before Draft Day is probably the realistic earliest point. I'm just saying, I bet we're already talking to them, or at least trying to.

Offline CelticsQuestFor18

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 203
  • Tommy Points: 26
Odds that Danny/whoever's covering for him while he recovers (let's be honest, probably Danny) has contacted New Orleans about packages for Davis already? I'd say >90% there's at least been an initial chat.

Maybe, but they could also be waiting for the Draft Lottery to see where the picks land. For example, do the Knicks get #1 pick? Does Kings stay 14 or move up a ton? That could also affect how the trade suitors for AD look depending on what assets they possess.

Oh yeah, no way New Orleans is pulling the trigger yet, too many variables. Shortly before Draft Day is probably the realistic earliest point. I'm just saying, I bet we're already talking to them, or at least trying to.


Offline liam

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16898
  • Tommy Points: 1126
Odds that Danny/whoever's covering for him while he recovers (let's be honest, probably Danny) has contacted New Orleans about packages for Davis already? I'd say >90% there's at least been an initial chat.

Maybe, but they could also be waiting for the Draft Lottery to see where the picks land. For example, do the Knicks get #1 pick? Does Kings stay 14 or move up a ton? That could also affect how the trade suitors for AD look depending on what assets they possess.

If the Knicks get #1, and I am expecting that, they will be in the driver's seat to get Davis but they will have to put a team together around him to keep him.

Offline slamtheking

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21034
  • Tommy Points: 9126
Good poll Phantom. TP for the idea

Thanks. Lot of good discussion here which I hoped for, but the poll itself seems a lot more lopsided than I expected  :P

Maybe a lot of the anti-Kyrie crowd is still asleep or out right now lol
really?

option one has pretty much been the desired option since Davis mentioned he wanted out of NO.  Only hold up on our end would be if he can be resigned or not.

Option 2 is what we had this season more or less.  didn't work too well at all.  won't make the mistake of thinking Hayward will be back to his Utah form nor that Brown/Tatum will continue to make major leaps in development.

Option 3 would be pointless.  if we're getting AD, it's with the purpose of teaming him with Kyrie, not have him instead of Kyrie.  also, if there's no Kyrie, why would he stay here?

Option 4 is a major step backwards.  we lose the best player on the team and then would have to rely on Hayward, Brown and Tatum making major steps forward or we're back to 6-8 seed in the East.

Option 5 is not an option.  way too much talent, dysfunctional though it may be, to blow this up and restart another rebuild. 

I'm amazed option 4 has gotten that many votes but seems many people are just ready to kick Kyrie to the curb.  the "cut your nose off to spite your face" crowd.

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsStrong Forums.

Community

Signup to win FREE tickets

* indicates required