Author Topic: Houston says Game 7 against GS - Refs missed 81 calls costing Houton 18.6 points  (Read 7550 times)

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Offline Moranis

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The team centered around James Harden is complaining about unfair officiating.  That cracks me up.
They used the NBA's own report of the game.  The 81 missed calls were flagged by the NBA.  They all weren't missed some were deemed uncertain.  They were missed calls both ways and their analysis gave Golden State missed points when warranted.  The net was 18.6 points to Houston (per Houston's analysis). 
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Offline Ogaju

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Quote
the Rockets' analysis uses the NBA's own official interpretation of the officiating in that Game 7.

Seems like the NBA identified the missed calls and Houston just extrapolated the impact on scoring.

I'm not surprised. I hate the way Harden plays but he draws a lot of fouls referees don't call. It's akin to how those Riley's Knicks teams had that "if you foul every possession, refs can't call it every time", except only for a player. Yesterday there was some shocking stuff, on those Klay Thompson's close outs for example.

Complicated for the refs though - and the league itself. If they call the game by the law, Harden would probably average some 20 FTs per game. Or teams would start giving him more space and he'd average over 45 ppg. Where do you go from there?

Simple ...you call the game the way it is supposed to be called. If he scores 100 points so be it.

Offline Ogaju

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The team centered around James Harden is complaining about unfair officiating.  That cracks me up.

They just want the whole game to be a free throw shooting contest...

Well, if their opponents are fouling them, shouldn't the fouls be called because their opponents foul too much?

I don't know if I like this "Harden already gets lots of fouls, doesn't deserve more" theory.

And Harden draws lots of weird, unusual, fouls that don't seem right, but still, they're fouls.

TP to you man. I dont understand why opponents should be allowed free shots at a player because he is good at what he does.

Offline manl_lui

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how many calls did the refs missed for GSW?

Offline Moranis

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how many calls did the refs missed for GSW?
the article didn't say, but the 81 includes calls that favored both teams.
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Offline nickagneta

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The team centered around James Harden is complaining about unfair officiating.  That cracks me up.

They just want the whole game to be a free throw shooting contest...

Well, if their opponents are fouling them, shouldn't the fouls be called because their opponents foul too much?

I don't know if I like this "Harden already gets lots of fouls, doesn't deserve more" theory.

And Harden draws lots of weird, unusual, fouls that don't seem right, but still, they're fouls.

TP to you man. I dont understand why opponents should be allowed free shots at a player because he is good at what he does.
The problem is Houston and especially Harden want everything to go their way. They aren't complaining about the constant questionable or downright wrong calls they get every game. They want all those questionable and wrong calls to go their way and have no calls go the other way for their opponents.

Harden and Houston know they get those calls. That's why Harden barges into people creating contact often making an offensive foul but not getting called for it. They get the benefit of the doubt. But they want that benefit and don't want their opponents to get any benefit of doubt. Budenholzer wants the same thing for Giannis.

That's why these complaints are met with derision and ironic laughter.

Offline alt

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The team centered around James Harden is complaining about unfair officiating.  That cracks me up.

They just want the whole game to be a free throw shooting contest...

Well, if their opponents are fouling them, shouldn't the fouls be called because their opponents foul too much?

I don't know if I like this "Harden already gets lots of fouls, doesn't deserve more" theory.

And Harden draws lots of weird, unusual, fouls that don't seem right, but still, they're fouls.
Harden is the beneficiary, much like Giannis and Lebron, of a ton of calls that should be offensive fouls. Also, he uses the Reggie Miller leg flail/CP3 jump into the defender first then shoot moves to get what amounted to a league record 95 foul calls on three point shots. That's why its comical that Harden would be complaining

I disagree with all of that but focusing on Harden - how often have you actually seen him getting FTs on those Reggie Miller kickouts this season? We can keep a count - did he get any last game? THere was one of those plays near the end of the game but those aren't the missed calls that people are talking about. We can track it - let's see how many of those are called over this series - do you reckon so far it's been 0?

Refs haven't been calling those fouls for a while.
Most of those fouls on 3 point attempts Harden gets are of two types (let's exclude "legitimate" fouls where defenders just close out too recklessly, agressively, etc): hand fouls due to that rip-through and side-to-side shooting motions he does whenever a defender gets his hands on his space (Mark Cuban sent out a tweet yesterday saying the NBA should eliminate these fouls - not really sure it's that easy to phrase that in a rule though); and those fouls where he jumps forward and the defender gets in his landing space once his airborne - especially after his step back.

This latter type were the ones refs didn't call yesterday. Those were textbook fouls (reportedly, the refs apologized for missing them).

What makes these fouls so frequent with Harden, and also weird to see called, is that Harden jumps forward off step-backs - a very unnatural movement as players have always faded off step-backs. That's why he draws lots of those fouls - he makes a very strange movement very quickly and baits defenders into jumping forward to contest him when he's already initiated the motion to jump forward himself - and this results in a foul because defenders must give airborne shooters the space to land - they don't need to move out of their spots, but they can't get in the way of the shooters once the shooter is airborne.

What's problematic is that in most of those situations, Harden isn't really looking to make a basket. He goes through the shooting motion only to establish contact with the defender and get the foul. But they're still fouls.

People have gotten so confused about this that today I saw an ESPN analysis where the commentator applied the "verticality rule" to Harden (to the commentator's credit, he still managed to agree that Thompson had in fact commited those fouls). But the attacking player has no obligation to verticality; that only applies to defenders (otherwise, most dunks and layups wouldn't exist). Shooters can jump forward, sideways, backward, whatever - as long as the landing space is empty when they start their jump, they're entitled to it.

Anyway, this is the entire problem: Harden baits defenders into fouls in ways that are very novel, and that he executes better than anyone ever, which explains why he manages to do it so often. I find abhorrent, but I don't think refs can not calling them is the way to go.

Offline nickagneta

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So you disagree with me completely but then go to describe the actions Harden takes at the 3 point line, that aren't exactly what I described in ten words, but is what he does do a whole bunch, along with your long explanation of what he does also. He did the leg flail once yesterday.

Listen, Harden doesn't have just one questionable way of getting fouls at the three point line, he has several and they all are questionable in how they can be called but he gets that benefit of the doubt from the refs more than any other player in the league.

Now if you think that Harden isn't getting a ton of favors from the refs regarding fouls he gets to the line for, I don't know what to say. It's extremely clear to most people that Harden, Giannis and LeBron get loads of calls that should be called offensive fouls and almost never get called for traveling while picking up the ball 3-5 steps from the basket.

That any of them complain that the refs aren't being fair to them is just ridiculously ironic and funny.

Offline keevsnick

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Putting aside how you feel about the rockets or even about last years series, they had a real point bout the officiating in game one. The contests from Klay Thompson in particular were fouls, pretty obvious ones. Its a dangerous play, and I think a little dirty.

Offline Ogaju

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The team centered around James Harden is complaining about unfair officiating.  That cracks me up.

They just want the whole game to be a free throw shooting contest...

Well, if their opponents are fouling them, shouldn't the fouls be called because their opponents foul too much?

I don't know if I like this "Harden already gets lots of fouls, doesn't deserve more" theory.

And Harden draws lots of weird, unusual, fouls that don't seem right, but still, they're fouls.
Harden is the beneficiary, much like Giannis and Lebron, of a ton of calls that should be offensive fouls. Also, he uses the Reggie Miller leg flail/CP3 jump into the defender first then shoot moves to get what amounted to a league record 95 foul calls on three point shots. That's why its comical that Harden would be complaining

I disagree with all of that but focusing on Harden - how often have you actually seen him getting FTs on those Reggie Miller kickouts this season? We can keep a count - did he get any last game? THere was one of those plays near the end of the game but those aren't the missed calls that people are talking about. We can track it - let's see how many of those are called over this series - do you reckon so far it's been 0?

Refs haven't been calling those fouls for a while.
Most of those fouls on 3 point attempts Harden gets are of two types (let's exclude "legitimate" fouls where defenders just close out too recklessly, agressively, etc): hand fouls due to that rip-through and side-to-side shooting motions he does whenever a defender gets his hands on his space (Mark Cuban sent out a tweet yesterday saying the NBA should eliminate these fouls - not really sure it's that easy to phrase that in a rule though); and those fouls where he jumps forward and the defender gets in his landing space once his airborne - especially after his step back.

This latter type were the ones refs didn't call yesterday. Those were textbook fouls (reportedly, the refs apologized for missing them).

What makes these fouls so frequent with Harden, and also weird to see called, is that Harden jumps forward off step-backs - a very unnatural movement as players have always faded off step-backs. That's why he draws lots of those fouls - he makes a very strange movement very quickly and baits defenders into jumping forward to contest him when he's already initiated the motion to jump forward himself - and this results in a foul because defenders must give airborne shooters the space to land - they don't need to move out of their spots, but they can't get in the way of the shooters once the shooter is airborne.

What's problematic is that in most of those situations, Harden isn't really looking to make a basket. He goes through the shooting motion only to establish contact with the defender and get the foul. But they're still fouls.

People have gotten so confused about this that today I saw an ESPN analysis where the commentator applied the "verticality rule" to Harden (to the commentator's credit, he still managed to agree that Thompson had in fact commited those fouls). But the attacking player has no obligation to verticality; that only applies to defenders (otherwise, most dunks and layups wouldn't exist). Shooters can jump forward, sideways, backward, whatever - as long as the landing space is empty when they start their jump, they're entitled to it.

Anyway, this is the entire problem: Harden baits defenders into fouls in ways that are very novel, and that he executes better than anyone ever, which explains why he manages to do it so often. I find abhorrent, but I don't think refs can not calling them is the way to go.

TP to you.....very succinctly stated.

Offline Androslav

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That's just a fancy way how not to say:
"We missed 27 threes in a row when the game was being decided."
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Offline Moranis

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The team centered around James Harden is complaining about unfair officiating.  That cracks me up.

They just want the whole game to be a free throw shooting contest...

Well, if their opponents are fouling them, shouldn't the fouls be called because their opponents foul too much?

I don't know if I like this "Harden already gets lots of fouls, doesn't deserve more" theory.

And Harden draws lots of weird, unusual, fouls that don't seem right, but still, they're fouls.
Harden is the beneficiary, much like Giannis and Lebron, of a ton of calls that should be offensive fouls. Also, he uses the Reggie Miller leg flail/CP3 jump into the defender first then shoot moves to get what amounted to a league record 95 foul calls on three point shots. That's why its comical that Harden would be complaining

I disagree with all of that but focusing on Harden - how often have you actually seen him getting FTs on those Reggie Miller kickouts this season? We can keep a count - did he get any last game? THere was one of those plays near the end of the game but those aren't the missed calls that people are talking about. We can track it - let's see how many of those are called over this series - do you reckon so far it's been 0?

Refs haven't been calling those fouls for a while.
Most of those fouls on 3 point attempts Harden gets are of two types (let's exclude "legitimate" fouls where defenders just close out too recklessly, agressively, etc): hand fouls due to that rip-through and side-to-side shooting motions he does whenever a defender gets his hands on his space (Mark Cuban sent out a tweet yesterday saying the NBA should eliminate these fouls - not really sure it's that easy to phrase that in a rule though); and those fouls where he jumps forward and the defender gets in his landing space once his airborne - especially after his step back.

This latter type were the ones refs didn't call yesterday. Those were textbook fouls (reportedly, the refs apologized for missing them).

What makes these fouls so frequent with Harden, and also weird to see called, is that Harden jumps forward off step-backs - a very unnatural movement as players have always faded off step-backs. That's why he draws lots of those fouls - he makes a very strange movement very quickly and baits defenders into jumping forward to contest him when he's already initiated the motion to jump forward himself - and this results in a foul because defenders must give airborne shooters the space to land - they don't need to move out of their spots, but they can't get in the way of the shooters once the shooter is airborne.

What's problematic is that in most of those situations, Harden isn't really looking to make a basket. He goes through the shooting motion only to establish contact with the defender and get the foul. But they're still fouls.

People have gotten so confused about this that today I saw an ESPN analysis where the commentator applied the "verticality rule" to Harden (to the commentator's credit, he still managed to agree that Thompson had in fact commited those fouls). But the attacking player has no obligation to verticality; that only applies to defenders (otherwise, most dunks and layups wouldn't exist). Shooters can jump forward, sideways, backward, whatever - as long as the landing space is empty when they start their jump, they're entitled to it.

Anyway, this is the entire problem: Harden baits defenders into fouls in ways that are very novel, and that he executes better than anyone ever, which explains why he manages to do it so often. I find abhorrent, but I don't think refs can not calling them is the way to go.
It actually isn't a foul if Harden jumps forward and the defender jumps straight up.  The non-call on Green at the end of the game was not a foul on Green, and that is pretty clearly a situation you are describing.  The offensive player does not have the right to jump into the space of the defender and get a foul called on the defender. 
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Offline MichiganAdam

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If the refs start calling it closer make sure to call the flopping as a foul too.  That would help balance out the bull sh*t.  The game would be even more unwatchable. 

Offline Fafnir

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I said to my brother that this audit sounds like something you'd see on a team reddit or celticsblog as a TLDR post.

Just laughable that they had this packaged and ready to release as part of a PR push during the series. I wonder how much Stern would have fined the team had they pulled this crap on him.

Offline BringToughnessBack

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Oh, to live in a world where your reflection in front of you is never responsible for anything bad including losing games but when things are great, it is of course because you are flawless and amazing.

When analyzing missed calls, I believe one would also need to look at what was allowed as well. Harden is a joke and if he stays on this current trend, he can keep putting up amazing numbers and never taste a title. Wake me when he actually wins something and stops complaining when he is a star who gets the "preferential" treatment on not calling a ton of plays against him.

Kleenex should become the new main sponsor for the Rockets.