Wannamaker is still better than Rozier

[mmmmm]

I've said this before but it bears repeating after this last game:

Rozier's problem is he truly sucks as a wing.   Because that is the role he has played when he's in lineups such as this last starting lineup.

Don't be fooled by the fact that he substituted for Irving in the starting lineup.   When Rozier plays in lineups with either Smart or Irving, he is NOT the primary ball-handler.  In those lineups his AST% drops to the mid-teens and he dishes out just 4 or 5 assists per 100 possessions.   Smart was the starting point-guard last night.  Not Rozier.

When Rozier plays without either of those two guys on the floor, his AST% jumps up to the mid-20s and he dishes out around 7-8 assists per 100.    In his starts in particular, both those numbers go slightly higher (while his turnover rates stay very low).   When he truly IS the only quick guard on the floor and gets the most time on the ball, his 'point guard numbers' are actually very good.  He produces good playmaking numbers with very low turnovers.

But if you put him on the floor and tell him he's supposed to be a scoring wing ... ugh.

This isn't just from this year.  This distinction in his role and performance was true last year as well.

[Chris22]

But it's hard to get rhythm when you're not playing at all

And yet, good bench players are expected to do this very thing all the time.

I would take Terry over Wannamaker and I bet most GMs would as well.   He has more talent and is playoff proven.  Terry seems to be a favorite to blame games on, but this season is on the whole team.

Wanamaker shoots 50% from three and 90% from the line.

Rozier shoots 35% from three and 77% from the line.

It game seven against Cleveland in the playoffs last year, Rozier was 0-10 from the three point line.

Playoff proven? lol

Wanamaker is a better player.

TR played 19 play off games, started in all of them replacing Kyrie Irving , played 36mpg :  19ppg ,6apg 50eFG% for a team that reached the 7nth game of the ECF and the only thing you remember is the 7nth game dismissing whatever he had done till that point .....

And BW is definitely better .... 

fair , objective assesment..... 



BTW just to be clear he certainly sucks this season.

Wanamaker is better. Better shooter, better passer. Rozier is a better rebounder. That's it.

And in the playoffs last year, Rozer shot 40% from the field and averaged 16 pts per game in 36 minutes. In the regular season this year, he is shooting 38% from the field.

This year, Wanamaker is shooting 46% from the field and 50% from three and 90% from the line.

[ederson]

BW plays 8m and takes 1 3p shot per game.  Stat sample matters

[SHAQATTACK]

Larkin is better point guard than both.

[jambr380]

I've said this before but it bears repeating after this last game:

Rozier's problem is he truly sucks as a wing.   Because that is the role he has played when he's in lineups such as this last starting lineup.

Don't be fooled by the fact that he substituted for Irving in the starting lineup.   When Rozier plays in lineups with either Smart or Irving, he is NOT the primary ball-handler.  In those lineups his AST% drops to the mid-teens and he dishes out just 4 or 5 assists per 100 possessions.   Smart was the starting point-guard last night.  Not Rozier.

When Rozier plays without either of those two guys on the floor, his AST% jumps up to the mid-20s and he dishes out around 7-8 assists per 100.    In his starts in particular, both those numbers go slightly higher (while his turnover rates stay very low).   When he truly IS the only quick guard on the floor and gets the most time on the ball, his 'point guard numbers' are actually very good.  He produces good playmaking numbers with very low turnovers.

But if you put him on the floor and tell him he's supposed to be a scoring wing ... ugh.

This isn't just from this year.  This distinction in his role and performance was true last year as well.

This is interesting - tp. I don't hate Rozier like so many others, but have grown frustrated with some of his decision making.

So, based on your data, would re-signing Rozier actually be a good idea if Smart was part of an AD package (he would then step up into primary ball-handler off the bench) or is it better for all parties for him to get a fresh start elsewhere?

[smokeablount]

I've said this before but it bears repeating after this last game:

Rozier's problem is he truly sucks as a wing.   Because that is the role he has played when he's in lineups such as this last starting lineup.

Don't be fooled by the fact that he substituted for Irving in the starting lineup.   When Rozier plays in lineups with either Smart or Irving, he is NOT the primary ball-handler.  In those lineups his AST% drops to the mid-teens and he dishes out just 4 or 5 assists per 100 possessions.   Smart was the starting point-guard last night.  Not Rozier.

When Rozier plays without either of those two guys on the floor, his AST% jumps up to the mid-20s and he dishes out around 7-8 assists per 100.    In his starts in particular, both those numbers go slightly higher (while his turnover rates stay very low).   When he truly IS the only quick guard on the floor and gets the most time on the ball, his 'point guard numbers' are actually very good.  He produces good playmaking numbers with very low turnovers.

But if you put him on the floor and tell him he's supposed to be a scoring wing ... ugh.

This isn't just from this year.  This distinction in his role and performance was true last year as well.

This is interesting - tp. I don't hate Rozier like so many others, but have grown frustrated with some of his decision making.

So, based on your data, would re-signing Rozier actually be a good idea if Smart was part of an AD package (he would then step up into primary ball-handler off the bench) or is it better for all parties for him to get a fresh start elsewhere?

Agreed, this is interesting and makes me slightly rethink my extreme distaste for Rozier this season.  TP to you.

[td450]

I've said this before but it bears repeating after this last game:

Rozier's problem is he truly sucks as a wing.   Because that is the role he has played when he's in lineups such as this last starting lineup.

Don't be fooled by the fact that he substituted for Irving in the starting lineup.   When Rozier plays in lineups with either Smart or Irving, he is NOT the primary ball-handler.  In those lineups his AST% drops to the mid-teens and he dishes out just 4 or 5 assists per 100 possessions.   Smart was the starting point-guard last night.  Not Rozier.

When Rozier plays without either of those two guys on the floor, his AST% jumps up to the mid-20s and he dishes out around 7-8 assists per 100.    In his starts in particular, both those numbers go slightly higher (while his turnover rates stay very low).   When he truly IS the only quick guard on the floor and gets the most time on the ball, his 'point guard numbers' are actually very good.  He produces good playmaking numbers with very low turnovers.

But if you put him on the floor and tell him he's supposed to be a scoring wing ... ugh.

This isn't just from this year.  This distinction in his role and performance was true last year as well.

This is interesting - tp. I don't hate Rozier like so many others, but have grown frustrated with some of his decision making.

So, based on your data, would re-signing Rozier actually be a good idea if Smart was part of an AD package (he would then step up into primary ball-handler off the bench) or is it better for all parties for him to get a fresh start elsewhere?

It makes a case that his value is considerably more limited, as in less than $5M, unless your team has a starting role available for him. I doubt Rozier accepts that reality.

[Celtics4ever]

Wanamaker shoots 50% from three and 90% from the line.

Rozier shoots 35% from three and 77% from the line.

It game seven against Cleveland in the playoffs last year, Rozier was 0-10 from the three point line.

Playoff proven? lol

Wanamaker is a better player

LOL, very small sample against largely scrubs.  I give you this Wanamaker know his game, his strengths and his limitations and that is his primary skill.

Totally wrong that he is better.   Rozier helped us immensely last year in the playoffs, and can start while your boy Wanamaker was overseas  not playing in the NBA.  Terry has his warts, but face it, it has taken Brad years to make it to the NBA, and there are reasons for that.  There are reasons he did not get drafted and went over seas to develop his game.   Because he lacks the talent of a first round pick.   Even his college did not have the same pedigree as Terry's.

No stat you can post refutes this matter.   Your an armchair coach, and our coach goes to Terry over Brad time and time again.   Gimme Scary Terry over Fad Brad of Celticstrong any day of the week.   No one outside this blog and Brad's family thinks that he is better than Rozier.  The Scouts don't think that.  Ainge did not think that and CBS does not think that.

Sure, Brad is a better shooter but does that really help him or us, if the coach does not think he is good enough to get regular minutes.  Nope, call me when you're an NBA scout but I would not quit your day job were I you.  I said above Brad had to take the long road to the NBA, that ought to tell you guys that you're wrong.   

[Chris22]

Wanamaker shoots 50% from three and 90% from the line.

Rozier shoots 35% from three and 77% from the line.

It game seven against Cleveland in the playoffs last year, Rozier was 0-10 from the three point line.

Playoff proven? lol

Wanamaker is a better player

LOL, very small sample against largely scrubs.  I give you this Wanamaker know his game, his strengths and his limitations and that is his primary skill.

Totally wrong that he is better.   Rozier helped us immensely last year in the playoffs, and can start while your boy Wanamaker was overseas  not playing in the NBA.  Terry has his warts, but face it, it has taken Brad years to make it to the NBA, and there are reasons for that.  There are reasons he did not get drafted and went over seas to develop his game.   Because he lacks the talent of a first round pick.   Even his college did not have the same pedigree as Terry's.

No stat you can post refutes this matter.   Your an armchair coach, and our coach goes to Terry over Brad time and time again.   Gimme Scary Terry over Fad Brad of Celticstrong any day of the week.   No one outside this blog and Brad's family thinks that he is better than Rozier.  The Scouts don't think that.  Ainge did not think that and CBS does not think that.

Sure, Brad is a better shooter but does that really help him or us, if the coach does not think he is good enough to get regular minutes.  Nope, call me when you're an NBA scout but I would not quit your day job were I you.  I said above Brad had to take the long road to the NBA, that ought to tell you guys that you're wrong.

Wanamaker is a better shooter and a better passer and a better point guard.

Terry is a better rebounder and a 38% shooter.

Wanamaker is a better player.

[Monkhouse]

Any player that shoots under 40% and is a guard shouldn't ever be in any discussion of who is 'better.'

[GreenFaith1819]

LOL.

This thread has a serious case of Janet Jackson.



Terry Rozier is STILL a starting PG on over half of the NBA teams out there - how hilarious that we seem to have forgotten his playoff performance last year...

He had a bad game 7 against CLE but overall he, JB and Tatum had memorable performances.

Dude appears to have lost his confidence with the role shuffling. But he is still a very good player.

[gouki88]

LOL.

This thread has a serious case of Janet Jackson.



Terry Rozier is STILL a starting PG on over half of the NBA teams out there - how hilarious that we seem to have forgotten his playoff performance last year...

He had a bad game 7 against CLE but overall he, JB and Tatum had memorable performances.

Dude appears to have lost his confidence with the role shuffling. But he is still a very good player.

I'd definitely challenge this

[GreenFaith1819]

LOL.

This thread has a serious case of Janet Jackson.



Terry Rozier is STILL a starting PG on over half of the NBA teams out there - how hilarious that we seem to have forgotten his playoff performance last year...

He had a bad game 7 against CLE but overall he, JB and Tatum had memorable performances.

Dude appears to have lost his confidence with the role shuffling. But he is still a very good player.

I'd definitely challenge this

Challenge what?

Toss out THIS NBA season - where just about ALL of this team has been inconsistent.

Look at LAST NBA season - especially the Post Season - once Kyrie was shut down.

Scary Terry gave ME, at least - some memorable performances.

Some of us HERE - seemed to be ready to let Kyrie walk and have Terry be the starting PG going forward.....said it would be "Cost effective"....said he'd be a decent PG going forward without the drama...

Now? We want to anoint Wannamaker as better? While he is seemingly so THIS season I am certain that Scary Terry will find his way onto a team as its starting PG.

Rozier just needs his confidence back. But the talent is still there.

[gouki88]

LOL.

This thread has a serious case of Janet Jackson.



Terry Rozier is STILL a starting PG on over half of the NBA teams out there - how hilarious that we seem to have forgotten his playoff performance last year...

He had a bad game 7 against CLE but overall he, JB and Tatum had memorable performances.

Dude appears to have lost his confidence with the role shuffling. But he is still a very good player.

I'd definitely challenge this

Challenge what?

Toss out THIS NBA season - where just about ALL of this team has been inconsistent.

Look at LAST NBA season - especially the Post Season - once Kyrie was shut down.

Scary Terry gave ME, at least - some memorable performances.

Some of us HERE - seemed to be ready to let Kyrie walk and have Terry be the starting PG going forward.....said it would be "Cost effective"....said he'd be a decent PG going forward without the drama...

Now? We want to anoint Wannamaker as better? While he is seemingly so THIS season I am certain that Scary Terry will find his way onto a team as its starting PG.

Rozier just needs his confidence back. But the talent is still there.

Sorry, probably wasn't clear enough. I would challenge the contention that Rozier would start on over half the teams in the league.

Boston --> No
Golden State --> No
Houston --> No
OKC --> No
(Healthy) Wizards --> No
Portland --> No
Toronto --> No
Charlotte --> No
Miami --> No
Utah --> No
Memphis --> No
Milwaukee --> No
Brooklyn --> No
Denver --> No
Sacramento --> No
Atlanta --> No

And then there are teams like Philly, where he might start, but probably shouldn't because Reddick is so much better than him off the ball. Pop probably wouldn't start him over Dejounte Murray either.

[GreenFaith1819]

LOL.

This thread has a serious case of Janet Jackson.



Terry Rozier is STILL a starting PG on over half of the NBA teams out there - how hilarious that we seem to have forgotten his playoff performance last year...

He had a bad game 7 against CLE but overall he, JB and Tatum had memorable performances.

Dude appears to have lost his confidence with the role shuffling. But he is still a very good player.

I'd definitely challenge this

Challenge what?

Toss out THIS NBA season - where just about ALL of this team has been inconsistent.

Look at LAST NBA season - especially the Post Season - once Kyrie was shut down.

Scary Terry gave ME, at least - some memorable performances.

Some of us HERE - seemed to be ready to let Kyrie walk and have Terry be the starting PG going forward.....said it would be "Cost effective"....said he'd be a decent PG going forward without the drama...

Now? We want to anoint Wannamaker as better? While he is seemingly so THIS season I am certain that Scary Terry will find his way onto a team as its starting PG.

Rozier just needs his confidence back. But the talent is still there.

Sorry, probably wasn't clear enough. I would challenge the contention that Rozier would start on over half the teams in the league.

Boston --> No
Golden State --> No
Houston --> No
OKC --> No
(Healthy) Wizards --> No
Portland --> No
Toronto --> No
Charlotte --> No
Miami --> No
Utah --> No
Memphis --> No
Milwaukee --> No
Brooklyn --> No
Denver --> No
Sacramento --> No
Atlanta --> No

And then there are teams like Philly, where he might start, but probably shouldn't because Reddick is so much better than him off the ball. Pop probably wouldn't start him over Dejounte Murray either.

Good list