Is Kemba Walker or Kyrie Irving the more appealing free-agent point guard?

[Monkhouse]

I guess we'll never know the true answer.

Kyrie if you're looking for someone that can hit a tough shot in Game 7

Kemba if you want to only make it to the 1st round

The hate here is ridiculous.

FTFY

Love the way you rearranged my comment.

Kyrie didn’t even make it to the first round of the playoffs without lebron.

Kyrie is a fine player who hit a big shot.. but he had arguably the best player of all time on his team in his prime.

Lebron has two championship rings due to two shots that were not his own, Kyrie and Ray but let’s not sugarcoat why those teams were even in those positions in the first place.

If I had the choice of either player, kemba or Kyrie. I take the no nonsense one that is a slight tier below the other.. and kemba can hit big shots also - do people already forget what he did to us in the 4th two week ago?

Considering how terrible his roster was 2011-2014, is it even that much of a surprise? You guys seriously expect an scoring first PG to be able to lead his team to the playoffs, when his best teammate was Dion Waiters?

Just like LeBron helped Irving to the playoffs, (it is a team game,) same should apply for Irving helped LeBron secure a championship for Cleveland.

Who's sugarcoating anything?

Oh yes, because regular season games are so important! 

Did you by any chance watch that video I posted?

By the way, Walker is now 0-28 against LeBron.

Okay and by that logic how many all stars has kemba walker played with?

The Celtics have regressed with Kyrie. The Cavs were terrible with him (without Lebron)

The Cavs still made the championship without him last year.. how important is this guy really?

I feel like one big shot has defined his career, it’s always the first thing anybody ever says in their defense of Kyrie.. his game 7 shot.

Kyrie is great, I think he is better than kemba but only slightly. I personally would take Kemba, Kyrie is a lot more baggage and not that much better of a player to justify the head ache

How much dysfunction has come out of Charlotte with kemba as their leader.. none. Give me the guy who shuts up and puts it out on the court. Not the guy who can bring his entire team down because his moods change more frequently then the weather

Why are you bringing up Allstars when you're talking about who made the playoffs? I agree Kyrie didn't make the playoffs without help, but if you compare Cavs vs the Bobcats, their both relatively terrible team. The Bobcats just got lucky, along with the Cavs, (who got two 1st round picks,) but the difference is what CHA used their 2nd pick on.

I'll take dysfunctional messy team that consistently gets to the playoffs with offensive scoring fire power in Irving, than quiet and humble Kemba who's team rarely makes it to the playoffs without getting 86'ed.

Also Eastern Conference last year was horrible, there is no question about it.

It bears mentioning that Irving is having an unbelievable statistical season. Dude’s averaging 23.8 points, 7.1 assists, and 5.1 rebounds per game on 49/40/87 shooting splits, good for a true shooting percentage of .592. The list of other players to hit those numbers over a full season is six iconic names long: Wilt Chamberlain, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, LeBron James, and James Harden. That’s the kind of season Kyrie’s having.

Irving has been Boston’s single biggest offensive bellwether: The Celtics average 7.2 more points per 100 possessions with him on the court than off it, scoring like the Nuggets in his minutes and the Grizzlies when he sits. He has also been one of the NBA’s most lethal late-game weapons: Only Harden, Kemba Walker, and Kawhi Leonard have scored more points in the final five minutes of games in which the score is within five points. This might be the best Irving has been, all around, during the regular season; he will likely be rewarded with an All-NBA selection.

[GreenCoffeeBean]

Kemba but only if he lowers his shot count.

[jbpats]

I guess we'll never know the true answer.

Kyrie if you're looking for someone that can hit a tough shot in Game 7

Kemba if you want to only make it to the 1st round

The hate here is ridiculous.

FTFY

Love the way you rearranged my comment.

Kyrie didn’t even make it to the first round of the playoffs without lebron.

Kyrie is a fine player who hit a big shot.. but he had arguably the best player of all time on his team in his prime.

Lebron has two championship rings due to two shots that were not his own, Kyrie and Ray but let’s not sugarcoat why those teams were even in those positions in the first place.

If I had the choice of either player, kemba or Kyrie. I take the no nonsense one that is a slight tier below the other.. and kemba can hit big shots also - do people already forget what he did to us in the 4th two week ago?

Considering how terrible his roster was 2011-2014, is it even that much of a surprise? You guys seriously expect an scoring first PG to be able to lead his team to the playoffs, when his best teammate was Dion Waiters?

Just like LeBron helped Irving to the playoffs, (it is a team game,) same should apply for Irving helped LeBron secure a championship for Cleveland.

Who's sugarcoating anything?

Oh yes, because regular season games are so important! 

Did you by any chance watch that video I posted?

By the way, Walker is now 0-28 against LeBron.

Okay and by that logic how many all stars has kemba walker played with?

The Celtics have regressed with Kyrie. The Cavs were terrible with him (without Lebron)

The Cavs still made the championship without him last year.. how important is this guy really?

I feel like one big shot has defined his career, it’s always the first thing anybody ever says in their defense of Kyrie.. his game 7 shot.

Kyrie is great, I think he is better than kemba but only slightly. I personally would take Kemba, Kyrie is a lot more baggage and not that much better of a player to justify the head ache

How much dysfunction has come out of Charlotte with kemba as their leader.. none. Give me the guy who shuts up and puts it out on the court. Not the guy who can bring his entire team down because his moods change more frequently then the weather

Why are you bringing up Allstars when you're talking about who made the playoffs? I agree Kyrie didn't make the playoffs without help, but if you compare Cavs vs the Bobcats, their both relatively terrible team. The Bobcats just got lucky, along with the Cavs, (who got two 1st round picks,) but the difference is what CHA used their 2nd pick on.

I'll take dysfunctional messy team that consistently gets to the playoffs with offensive scoring fire power in Irving, than quiet and humble Kemba who's team rarely makes it to the playoffs without getting 86'ed.

Also Eastern Conference last year was horrible, there is no question about it.

It bears mentioning that Irving is having an unbelievable statistical season. Dude’s averaging 23.8 points, 7.1 assists, and 5.1 rebounds per game on 49/40/87 shooting splits, good for a true shooting percentage of .592. The list of other players to hit those numbers over a full season is six iconic names long: Wilt Chamberlain, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, LeBron James, and James Harden. That’s the kind of season Kyrie’s having.

Irving has been Boston’s single biggest offensive bellwether: The Celtics average 7.2 more points per 100 possessions with him on the court than off it, scoring like the Nuggets in his minutes and the Grizzlies when he sits. He has also been one of the NBA’s most lethal late-game weapons: Only Harden, Kemba Walker, and Kawhi Leonard have scored more points in the final five minutes of games in which the score is within five points. This might be the best Irving has been, all around, during the regular season; he will likely be rewarded with an All-NBA selection.

So are you alluding that the Celtics wouldn’t be a 5 seed or better this year if we had kemba instead of Kyrie?

That’s laughable.

I just don’t get your logic, kyrie has a pass on missing the playoffs in Cleveland because of his supporting cast, but yet that’s a strike against kemba because he’s made the playoffs bearing the weight of a mediocre team on his shoulders.

But yet Kyrie is better because he’s gone farther in the playoffs with all star loaded teams on which he’s always been option 2 or 3?  The same team who was able to make the finals without him..

And as we all know the Celtics made it to game 7 of the ecf without him.
you take kemba off of Charlotte they are probably the worst team in the nba

[Moranis]

It bears mentioning that Irving is having an unbelievable statistical season. Dude’s averaging 23.8 points, 7.1 assists, and 5.1 rebounds per game on 49/40/87 shooting splits, good for a true shooting percentage of .592. The list of other players to hit those numbers over a full season is six iconic names long: Wilt Chamberlain, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, LeBron James, and James Harden. That’s the kind of season Kyrie’s having.

Irving has been Boston’s single biggest offensive bellwether: The Celtics average 7.2 more points per 100 possessions with him on the court than off it, scoring like the Nuggets in his minutes and the Grizzlies when he sits. He has also been one of the NBA’s most lethal late-game weapons: Only Harden, Kemba Walker, and Kawhi Leonard have scored more points in the final five minutes of games in which the score is within five points. This might be the best Irving has been, all around, during the regular season; he will likely be rewarded with an All-NBA selection.

That list just isn't right.  Wilt Chamberlain never played in the league with the 3 point shot so he couldn't have had those splits.  He also never shot anywhere close to 87% from the line in any season.  So if they are using TS% with those total, then it is just weird mental gymnastics to try and make Irving's season better than any handful of seasons from someone like the Big O or the Logo, who played when the game was vastly different (I mean Oscar was in the top 10 in FG% 8 times and never had a TS% better than 58.8%) or just in general where there were seasons where the Big O was the only player in basketball to average more than 7.1 apg.  Even this year, would you rather have Irving's season or someone like Giannis or Jokic.  Just weird lines to draw for no apparent reason.

[Monkhouse]

I guess we'll never know the true answer.

Kyrie if you're looking for someone that can hit a tough shot in Game 7

Kemba if you want to only make it to the 1st round

The hate here is ridiculous.

FTFY

Love the way you rearranged my comment.

Kyrie didn’t even make it to the first round of the playoffs without lebron.

Kyrie is a fine player who hit a big shot.. but he had arguably the best player of all time on his team in his prime.

Lebron has two championship rings due to two shots that were not his own, Kyrie and Ray but let’s not sugarcoat why those teams were even in those positions in the first place.

If I had the choice of either player, kemba or Kyrie. I take the no nonsense one that is a slight tier below the other.. and kemba can hit big shots also - do people already forget what he did to us in the 4th two week ago?

Considering how terrible his roster was 2011-2014, is it even that much of a surprise? You guys seriously expect an scoring first PG to be able to lead his team to the playoffs, when his best teammate was Dion Waiters?

Just like LeBron helped Irving to the playoffs, (it is a team game,) same should apply for Irving helped LeBron secure a championship for Cleveland.

Who's sugarcoating anything?

Oh yes, because regular season games are so important! 

Did you by any chance watch that video I posted?

By the way, Walker is now 0-28 against LeBron.

Okay and by that logic how many all stars has kemba walker played with?

The Celtics have regressed with Kyrie. The Cavs were terrible with him (without Lebron)

The Cavs still made the championship without him last year.. how important is this guy really?

I feel like one big shot has defined his career, it’s always the first thing anybody ever says in their defense of Kyrie.. his game 7 shot.

Kyrie is great, I think he is better than kemba but only slightly. I personally would take Kemba, Kyrie is a lot more baggage and not that much better of a player to justify the head ache

How much dysfunction has come out of Charlotte with kemba as their leader.. none. Give me the guy who shuts up and puts it out on the court. Not the guy who can bring his entire team down because his moods change more frequently then the weather

Why are you bringing up Allstars when you're talking about who made the playoffs? I agree Kyrie didn't make the playoffs without help, but if you compare Cavs vs the Bobcats, their both relatively terrible team. The Bobcats just got lucky, along with the Cavs, (who got two 1st round picks,) but the difference is what CHA used their 2nd pick on.

I'll take dysfunctional messy team that consistently gets to the playoffs with offensive scoring fire power in Irving, than quiet and humble Kemba who's team rarely makes it to the playoffs without getting 86'ed.

Also Eastern Conference last year was horrible, there is no question about it.

It bears mentioning that Irving is having an unbelievable statistical season. Dude’s averaging 23.8 points, 7.1 assists, and 5.1 rebounds per game on 49/40/87 shooting splits, good for a true shooting percentage of .592. The list of other players to hit those numbers over a full season is six iconic names long: Wilt Chamberlain, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, LeBron James, and James Harden. That’s the kind of season Kyrie’s having.

Irving has been Boston’s single biggest offensive bellwether: The Celtics average 7.2 more points per 100 possessions with him on the court than off it, scoring like the Nuggets in his minutes and the Grizzlies when he sits. He has also been one of the NBA’s most lethal late-game weapons: Only Harden, Kemba Walker, and Kawhi Leonard have scored more points in the final five minutes of games in which the score is within five points. This might be the best Irving has been, all around, during the regular season; he will likely be rewarded with an All-NBA selection.

So are you alluding that the Celtics wouldn’t be a 5 seed or better this year if we had kemba instead of Kyrie?

That’s laughable.

I just don’t get your logic, kyrie has a pass on missing the playoffs in Cleveland because of his supporting cast, but yet that’s a strike against kemba because he’s made the playoffs bearing the weight of a mediocre team on his shoulders.

But yet Kyrie is better because he’s gone farther in the playoffs with all star loaded teams on which he’s always been option 2 or 3?  The same team who was able to make the finals without him..

And as we all know the Celtics made it to game 7 of the ecf without him.
you take kemba off of Charlotte they are probably the worst team in the nba

Hmmm...

So Kemba who has posted inferior stats than Irving, is somehow going to enable us to have a better record?

Okay... That makes sense, I guess.

It bears mentioning that Irving is having an unbelievable statistical season. Dude’s averaging 23.8 points, 7.1 assists, and 5.1 rebounds per game on 49/40/87 shooting splits, good for a true shooting percentage of .592. The list of other players to hit those numbers over a full season is six iconic names long: Wilt Chamberlain, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, LeBron James, and James Harden. That’s the kind of season Kyrie’s having.

Irving has been Boston’s single biggest offensive bellwether: The Celtics average 7.2 more points per 100 possessions with him on the court than off it, scoring like the Nuggets in his minutes and the Grizzlies when he sits. He has also been one of the NBA’s most lethal late-game weapons: Only Harden, Kemba Walker, and Kawhi Leonard have scored more points in the final five minutes of games in which the score is within five points. This might be the best Irving has been, all around, during the regular season; he will likely be rewarded with an All-NBA selection.

That list just isn't right.  Wilt Chamberlain never played in the league with the 3 point shot so he couldn't have had those splits.  He also never shot anywhere close to 87% from the line in any season.  So if they are using TS% with those total, then it is just weird mental gymnastics to try and make Irving's season better than any handful of seasons from someone like the Big O or the Logo, who played when the game was vastly different (I mean Oscar was in the top 10 in FG% 8 times and never had a TS% better than 58.8%) or just in general where there were seasons where the Big O was the only player in basketball to average more than 7.1 apg.  Even this year, would you rather have Irving's season or someone like Giannis or Jokic.  Just weird lines to draw for no apparent reason.

Agreed, Wilt Chamberlain didn't make sense, actually no idea why he was even there in the first place, but ho-hum. But it's just bringing up how great of an season Irving has had.

No brainer, but we don't have either.

[coco]

Kyrie definitely has the pedigree to command more money.  Now, is he hands-down better? well, it depends what you pay Kyrie as opposed to what you can get Kemba for.....

Kyrie is better but he is quite a personality. Not sure how much luggage(sp) Kemba carries...

[Moranis]

Thread could probably use the some relevant stats for this year (everything from BBall-Ref, so I have no idea the veracity)

Walker - 75 games
25.2 ppg, 5.9 apg, 4.4 rpg, 1.3 spg, 0.4 bpg, 2.6 tpg
48.7 2PT%, 35.2 3PT%, 83.9 FT%, 55.1 TS%
111 ORTG, 113 DRTG, 6.3 WS, 3.1 BPM, 3.4 VORP, on/off per 100 +8.2

Irving - 63 games
23.9 ppg, 7.1 apg, 5.0 rpg, 1.6 spg, 0.5 bpg, 2.6 tpg
53.9 2PT%, 39.8 3PT%, 87.0 FT% 59.3 TS%
118 ORTG, 108 DRTG, 8.8 WS, 6.6 BPM, 4.6 VORP, on/off per 100 +2.5

In other words, Irving is generally better across the board.  The only real arguments for Walker are better health and less drama, but that is it.

[gpap]

Kyrie.

[Roy H.]

Kyrie definitely has the pedigree to command more money.  Now, is he hands-down better? well, it depends what you pay Kyrie as opposed to what you can get Kemba for.....

Kyrie is better but he is quite a personality. Not sure how much luggage(sp) Kemba carries...

They’re both getting max contracts, I’d bet.

[keevsnick]

Kyrie has been better this year by virtually every statistical measure, whether its raw stats, efficiency, plus minus, basically every way we have of measuring performance says Kyrie is better. And he's almost two years younger.

[Tr1boy]

Kyrie definitely has the pedigree to command more money.  Now, is he hands-down better? well, it depends what you pay Kyrie as opposed to what you can get Kemba for.....

Kyrie is better but he is quite a personality. Not sure how much luggage(sp) Kemba carries...

They’re both getting max contracts, I’d bet.

Easily

Kemba will not return to the Hornets imo

I wouldnt be surprised one bit if Kyrie doesnt return

Kemba is the 1st guy Danny goes after hard

He is like a 6'1 IT4. Tough 4th quarter player

[Phantom255x]

Folks who have seen me post about Kyrie and defend him too might be surprised to hear me say this, but I actually think it's Kemba Walker.

Walker seems to have less health issues than Kyrie and comes with less drama as well (although I do acknowledge it's not entirely Kyrie's fault on the drama part). Plus, if Kemba leaves and joins a bigger market, I think he will flourish and probably get even better, which is a scary thought.

Kyrie is currently the better player, more experienced in the bigger games and slightly younger. But I think his max is more $$$ than Kemba and Kemba is the safer bet to last close to a whole season for the next 4-5 years than Kyrie.

Now again, would I re-sign Kyrie with the Bird Rights at the max? Absolutely. But I think Kemba is the more appealing guard. Kemba may also feel a bit spited hearing all the talks of these other PGs and maybe that motivates him further once he joins a new team (and I think he does).

And while this might sound a bit unfair to Kyrie... we still have to see if he can truly lead a team to a deep playoff run. Kyrie's made an impact in the playoffs obviously but that was more as a #2. So I don't think we can really use the "leader and playoff" arguments and hold them truly against Kemba as a result.

[Birdman]

I take Walker b/c of no drama with him and never hurt or takes games off

[ozgod]

Thread could probably use the some relevant stats for this year (everything from BBall-Ref, so I have no idea the veracity)

Walker - 75 games
25.2 ppg, 5.9 apg, 4.4 rpg, 1.3 spg, 0.4 bpg, 2.6 tpg
48.7 2PT%, 35.2 3PT%, 83.9 FT%, 55.1 TS%
111 ORTG, 113 DRTG, 6.3 WS, 3.1 BPM, 3.4 VORP, on/off per 100 +8.2

Irving - 63 games
23.9 ppg, 7.1 apg, 5.0 rpg, 1.6 spg, 0.5 bpg, 2.6 tpg
53.9 2PT%, 39.8 3PT%, 87.0 FT% 59.3 TS%
118 ORTG, 108 DRTG, 8.8 WS, 6.6 BPM, 4.6 VORP, on/off per 100 +2.5

In other words, Irving is generally better across the board.  The only real arguments for Walker are better health and less drama, but that is it.

Added a few more stats to what you have there as well. Interestingly Kyrie has a lower usage % this season than Kemba (probably because Kemba is more often forced to be the go-to guy in Charlotte).



http://bkref.com/tiny/f7W8S

[smokeablount]

Brad Wanamaker.