Is Manu Ginobili a future HOF?

[Tr1boy]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26385524/spurs-retire-ginobili-jersey-emotional-ceremony

[Donoghus]

Yup.

Remember, its the Basketball Hall of Fame.   Not the NBA Hall of Fame.

[Silky]

He should be for swatting a bat out of the air alone.

[fairweatherfan]

Yes. I don't think it'll be too close either.

[footey]

No brainer. Absolutely a HOF.

[johnnygreen]

There is no debate for Ginobili. Absolute Hall of Famer.

[Erik]

If HOF had its HOF, he would be in it.

Interesting comment. I rough math'ed it.

There are 178 players in the hall of fame. I've found that 3000 players played in the NBA over the last 50 years. There are some people in the players section that weren't in the NBA or were in the WNBA. Let's just call it 5% of the NBA players made it to the hall of fame (super generous).

In order to make it to the HOF of the HOF (using similar %), you'd need to be in the top 10 for sure. Ginobili is no where near that list.

[Moranis]

Absolutely given his international achievements, though I do think it would be an interesting debate in a purely NBA HOF.  I'm not so sure he would be in that one, though I haven't done the research needed to make a determination.

[Donoghus]

Absolutely given his international achievements, though I do think it would be an interesting debate in a purely NBA HOF.  I'm not so sure he would be in that one, though I haven't done the research needed to make a determination.

FWIW, Basketball Reference's HOF Probability Index has Manu ranked #149 with a probability of .2005 (notables around him include Kevin Johnson & Jimmy Butler).

Almost certain that Index only uses NBA accomplishments.

[Moranis]

Absolutely given his international achievements, though I do think it would be an interesting debate in a purely NBA HOF.  I'm not so sure he would be in that one, though I haven't done the research needed to make a determination.

FWIW, Basketball Reference's HOF Probability Index has Manu ranked #149 with a probability of .2005 (notables around him include Kevin Johnson & Jimmy Butler).

Almost certain that Index only uses NBA accomplishments.

It does, but championships help a lot in that category, but he was never more than the 3rd best player on any team he was on.  He didn't do any one thing at an elite level.  He didn't rack up counting stats.  He didn't make many all star or all NBA teams (2 all star and 2 3rd teams).  If this was just the NBA, I don't think he gets in. 

[Monkhouse]

Absolutely given his international achievements, though I do think it would be an interesting debate in a purely NBA HOF.  I'm not so sure he would be in that one, though I haven't done the research needed to make a determination.

FWIW, Basketball Reference's HOF Probability Index has Manu ranked #149 with a probability of .2005 (notables around him include Kevin Johnson & Jimmy Butler).

Almost certain that Index only uses NBA accomplishments.

Absolutely given his international achievements, though I do think it would be an interesting debate in a purely NBA HOF.  I'm not so sure he would be in that one, though I haven't done the research needed to make a determination.

FWIW, Basketball Reference's HOF Probability Index has Manu ranked #149 with a probability of .2005 (notables around him include Kevin Johnson & Jimmy Butler).

Almost certain that Index only uses NBA accomplishments.

It does, but championships help a lot in that category, but he was never more than the 3rd best player on any team he was on.  He didn't do any one thing at an elite level.  He didn't rack up counting stats.  He didn't make many all star or all NBA teams (2 all star and 2 3rd teams).  If this was just the NBA, I don't think he gets in. 

Absolutely given his international achievements, though I do think it would be an interesting debate in a purely NBA HOF.  I'm not so sure he would be in that one, though I haven't done the research needed to make a determination.

Don't you think you should also take into account the coaching and system as a reason why he wasn't anything more than 2 All-Stars? Any other team, I definitely believe he would be playing 30+ MPG, and would have better career averages since Manu, in his own self, was an awesome scorer.

Even if he was 6th man, he was usually closing out games, and generally one of the most underrated passers. Pretty much revolutionized the euro step, and brought so much to the game.

But yeah, of course HoF takes International awards and accomplishments as a factor.

I also feel like we have discussed this multiple times on this blog.

Is the search function removed? I cannot seem to find it.

[Donoghus]

Absolutely given his international achievements, though I do think it would be an interesting debate in a purely NBA HOF.  I'm not so sure he would be in that one, though I haven't done the research needed to make a determination.

FWIW, Basketball Reference's HOF Probability Index has Manu ranked #149 with a probability of .2005 (notables around him include Kevin Johnson & Jimmy Butler).

Almost certain that Index only uses NBA accomplishments.

Absolutely given his international achievements, though I do think it would be an interesting debate in a purely NBA HOF.  I'm not so sure he would be in that one, though I haven't done the research needed to make a determination.

FWIW, Basketball Reference's HOF Probability Index has Manu ranked #149 with a probability of .2005 (notables around him include Kevin Johnson & Jimmy Butler).

Almost certain that Index only uses NBA accomplishments.

It does, but championships help a lot in that category, but he was never more than the 3rd best player on any team he was on.  He didn't do any one thing at an elite level.  He didn't rack up counting stats.  He didn't make many all star or all NBA teams (2 all star and 2 3rd teams).  If this was just the NBA, I don't think he gets in. 

Absolutely given his international achievements, though I do think it would be an interesting debate in a purely NBA HOF.  I'm not so sure he would be in that one, though I haven't done the research needed to make a determination.

Don't you think you should also take into account the coaching and system as a reason why he wasn't anything more than 2 All-Stars? Any other team, I definitely believe he would be playing 30+ MPG, and would have better career averages since Manu, in his own self, was an awesome scorer.

Even if he was 6th man, he was usually closing out games, and generally one of the most underrated passers. Pretty much revolutionized the euro step, and brought so much to the game.

But yeah, of course HoF takes International awards and accomplishments as a factor.

I also feel like we have discussed this multiple times on this blog.

Is the search function removed? I cannot seem to find it.

Oh, it certainly has but I wasn't about to go digging up old threads about it. 

Given how his number was retired last night, this discussion makes perfect sense right now even if its been touched on before

[Androslav]

If HOF had its HOF, he would be in it.

Interesting comment. I rough math'ed it.

There are 178 players in the hall of fame. I've found that 3000 players played in the NBA over the last 50 years. There are some people in the players section that weren't in the NBA or were in the WNBA. Let's just call it 5% of the NBA players made it to the hall of fame (super generous).

In order to make it to the HOF of the HOF (using similar %), you'd need to be in the top 10 for sure. Ginobili is no where near that list.

TP for the mathwork.
I did overexaggerate just a tiny bit.
He was my dearest player after all 

Ever since my teenage romance with Shawn Kemp.

[SHAQATTACK]

He should be for swatting a bat out of the air alone.

sOoooooooooo cool .

of Course he should be .

Iconic Player like Pistol Pete

[Moranis]

Absolutely given his international achievements, though I do think it would be an interesting debate in a purely NBA HOF.  I'm not so sure he would be in that one, though I haven't done the research needed to make a determination.

FWIW, Basketball Reference's HOF Probability Index has Manu ranked #149 with a probability of .2005 (notables around him include Kevin Johnson & Jimmy Butler).

Almost certain that Index only uses NBA accomplishments.

Absolutely given his international achievements, though I do think it would be an interesting debate in a purely NBA HOF.  I'm not so sure he would be in that one, though I haven't done the research needed to make a determination.

FWIW, Basketball Reference's HOF Probability Index has Manu ranked #149 with a probability of .2005 (notables around him include Kevin Johnson & Jimmy Butler).

Almost certain that Index only uses NBA accomplishments.

It does, but championships help a lot in that category, but he was never more than the 3rd best player on any team he was on.  He didn't do any one thing at an elite level.  He didn't rack up counting stats.  He didn't make many all star or all NBA teams (2 all star and 2 3rd teams).  If this was just the NBA, I don't think he gets in. 

Absolutely given his international achievements, though I do think it would be an interesting debate in a purely NBA HOF.  I'm not so sure he would be in that one, though I haven't done the research needed to make a determination.

Don't you think you should also take into account the coaching and system as a reason why he wasn't anything more than 2 All-Stars? Any other team, I definitely believe he would be playing 30+ MPG, and would have better career averages since Manu, in his own self, was an awesome scorer.

Even if he was 6th man, he was usually closing out games, and generally one of the most underrated passers. Pretty much revolutionized the euro step, and brought so much to the game.

But yeah, of course HoF takes International awards and accomplishments as a factor.

I also feel like we have discussed this multiple times on this blog.

Is the search function removed? I cannot seem to find it.

I don't know that you can account for system in that manner.  I mean if he isn't on the Spurs, does he win a title?  Without the titles, his career is a lot different.  I'm also not sure his numbers change all that much as Manu just never struck me as a good that could realistically be a #1 option.   I mean in his prime he basically averaged 30 mpg for an 8 year period, it isn't like he didn't have minutes, he just wasn't any higher than 3rd in the pecking order limiting his stats.  He also missed a lot of games due to injury (hit 80 once and only 76 or more 1 other time with many seasons below 70).  The simple truth is Duncan and Parker were always better players than him and many years there were others (like Robinson early on and Kawhi later on).  For, at best, the 3rd best player on every single team he was on to make the HOF he has to be exceptional at something or just play so long that he just builds up huge counting stats (like Rodman or Parish).  That isn't Manu.  He gets in because he has such a huge international pedigree, but I don't see him making a purely NBA HOF.