Author Topic: 2019 Red Sox Thread  (Read 15571 times)

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Re: 2019 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #240 on: August 17, 2019, 08:07:39 PM »

Offline gpap

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Sale is on IR now and Dr Andrews will be looking at mri. That extension that kicks in next year could be a big albatross for many years. 145 M for five years...[dang]....

https://twitter.com/peteabe/status/1162839378550562818?s=21

Bad contracts are pretty close to irrelevant to the Red Sox.  Their payroll advantage obviously isn’t unlimited but it sure has allowed them to survive same big mistakes.

Well, it was John Henry’s decision to sign off on Sale’s extension

Re: 2019 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #241 on: August 17, 2019, 08:28:24 PM »

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Henry refused to go over the cap and pay the tax penalty caused by Sandoval's $19M salary, depriving the Champion Red Sox of a top closer. It turns out that has been the difference all season, if you count the 20+ blown saves.  The team just didn't have a closer commensurate with the abilities of the rest of the team. It lacked a bullpen anchor, and it still doesn't have one. They've scored 10+ runs each in the first three games against NY, and they needed them.

The other factor was the overmanaging of Sale--with good intentions, but it just didn't work out. He just couldn't get his rhythm. Is there a harder word to spell than rhythm? I have to look it up every time.
I agree with all your comments.  I am hoping that the over managing of Sale will help him dominate for the rest of the season.
I heard Cora on the radio the other day, and I wonder if his input was a deciding factor in not having a typical closer.

He spoke about having your best guy go against their best guys, usually 1-4 hitters in the lineup. In the last 3 innings that is your high leverage situation, getting those batters out when they come to the plate in the last three innings and it doesn't matter which inning it is. Then you use other guys to get out their weaker 5-9 guys in the lineup.

I think Cora wanted to try this system out instead of having the typical 9th inning guy, who is your best reliever, getting outs in the 9th inning regardless of who they are facing. Apparently there are some advanced stats that state this approach is more likely to yield a positive result. And, it sure does eliminate having to overpay someone to be a closer.

It wouldn’t surprise me at all if it was Cora’s idea not to have a closer, as he seems to like this carousel of starters relieving and relievers starting. Personally, I hate it! Cora is going to suddenly change the way the game has been played for over 100 years? This closer by committee thing never works!

And personally, I think Cora should be on the hot seat for not having the team ready to begin the season.
Cora just managed the team to the best season in Sox history as a rookie manager and you think he should be on the hotseat for this year?!?!?!

That is just a strange, over-reacting hot take. There is a reason you don't see a lot of back to back World Series champions. It's because it is ridiculously difficult to repeat a title win. I do think Cora should catch a bunch of blame for this season, but as a 2nd year coach who just did what he did in 2018, there is no world where his job should be on the line because of it, especially given the crap job Dombrowski has done since they won the title.

This isn't like John Farrell, who was a terrible manager that got lucky in 2013. Cora appears to be a great manager, but this team wasn't ready to start the season and key players seriously underperformed(Sale, Porcello, Betts, until recently Benintendi, Aovaldi, anyone given the closer role). Not much Cora can do about the players underperforming
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 08:34:22 PM by nickagneta »

Re: 2019 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #242 on: August 17, 2019, 10:42:48 PM »

Offline gpap

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Yeah, probably an over exaggeration on my part, while I do think Cora deserves some criticism for this year's failures.

Ultimately, is Cora the best man for the job going forward?

Right now, he probably is as I don't see another manager becoming available that can do a better job.

Plus, he seems to have a really good relationship with the players and is probably a big part of why Bogaerts decided to sign an extension (unlike Farrell, who was terrible and didn't have a good relationship with the players.)

I just think the team needs to look at what went wrong this year and try to correct that from ownership and managerial decisions to players performing better next year (including the starting rotation.)


Re: 2019 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #243 on: August 18, 2019, 12:21:36 AM »

Offline libermaniac

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Sale is on IR now and Dr Andrews will be looking at mri. That extension that kicks in next year could be a big albatross for many years. 145 M for five years...[dang]....

https://twitter.com/peteabe/status/1162839378550562818?s=21

Bad contracts are pretty close to irrelevant to the Red Sox.  Their payroll advantage obviously isn’t unlimited but it sure has allowed them to survive same big mistakes.

Well, it was John Henry’s decision to sign off on Sale’s extension
I was never a fan of the extension from day one. They had to baby him through the 2nd half of the last two seasons. Not exactly a workhorse.

Re: 2019 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #244 on: August 18, 2019, 01:01:43 AM »

Offline gpap

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Sale is on IR now and Dr Andrews will be looking at mri. That extension that kicks in next year could be a big albatross for many years. 145 M for five years...[dang]....

https://twitter.com/peteabe/status/1162839378550562818?s=21

Bad contracts are pretty close to irrelevant to the Red Sox.  Their payroll advantage obviously isn’t unlimited but it sure has allowed them to survive same big mistakes.

Well, it was John Henry’s decision to sign off on Sale’s extension
I was never a fan of the extension from day one. They had to baby him through the 2nd half of the last two seasons. Not exactly a workhorse.

Yeah, very premature to give him the extension. I'm a big Sale fan, but after witnessing him wearing down towards the end of the last 2 seasons, should've given the Sox pause. If they didn't extend him, they would've had that much more money available to spend this offseason.  At the very least, they could've seen how he fared this year and re-assessed in the offseason. Instead they jumped the gun and it's already kinda come back to haunt them.

Regardless, the Sox will still need to acquire another starter to replace Porcello (not to mention Price and Eovaldi are injury prone.)

Either Gerrit Cole or Zach Wheeler would be a nice addition. Maybe they also pick up a couple young pitching prospects if they trade Mookie.

Try to make the most of a bad situation if it's a worse case scenario for Chris Sale.

Re: 2019 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #245 on: August 19, 2019, 06:43:24 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Looks like Sale's done for 2019. Right now they're saying no TJ surgery, which is good news, but I really question whether he can continue as a starter. Built like a twig, throws hard, will be 31 next spring, and this is the second straight year he's been injured at the end of the season. Heck, he took it easy in spring training and still couldn't make it through the whole season. And Boston's stuck with him for 5 more years. Might have to make him a high-priced reliever.
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Re: 2019 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #246 on: August 19, 2019, 07:51:24 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Looks like Sale's done for 2019. Right now they're saying no TJ surgery, which is good news, but I really question whether he can continue as a starter. Built like a twig, throws hard, will be 31 next spring, and this is the second straight year he's been injured at the end of the season. Heck, he took it easy in spring training and still couldn't make it through the whole season. And Boston's stuck with him for 5 more years. Might have to make him a high-priced reliever.
There’s a lot of valid reason for concern with Sale.

As you mention he’s always broken down be it injury or losing effectiveness and he’s not a well built guy like Lester or even of average build like Price.

That said, I think you have to just hope he finds a way to continue to be a top level pitcher. His stuff is nasty and he still can throw hard. He might just have to reinvent himself a bit like countless pitchers do. Hopefully he can do it. He’s 31. That’s not ancient
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Re: 2019 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #247 on: August 19, 2019, 08:30:03 PM »

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Looks like Sale's done for 2019. Right now they're saying no TJ surgery, which is good news, but I really question whether he can continue as a starter. Built like a twig, throws hard, will be 31 next spring, and this is the second straight year he's been injured at the end of the season. Heck, he took it easy in spring training and still couldn't make it through the whole season. And Boston's stuck with him for 5 more years. Might have to make him a high-priced reliever.
There’s a lot of valid reason for concern with Sale.

As you mention he’s always broken down be it injury or losing effectiveness and he’s not a well built guy like Lester or even of average build like Price.

That said, I think you have to just hope he finds a way to continue to be a top level pitcher. His stuff is nasty and he still can throw hard. He might just have to reinvent himself a bit like countless pitchers do. Hopefully he can do it. He’s 31. That’s not ancient
Sale is a great pitcher. He has great control and his movement on the ball is tremendous. If he has to reinvent himself, he will be able to because his success isn't predicated on only his physical ability. He will be a high level starter, when he gets healthy, because the guy can pitch, he can locate and he can change speeds. I think he will be a great pitcher for a few more years still. Too early to bail on him now.

Re: 2019 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #248 on: September 08, 2019, 12:12:13 PM »

Offline gpap

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Just some Sunday morning musings on the Sox, amidst the Antonio Brown mania and on the heels of a disgusting loss after being shutdown by worthless JA Happ of the Yankees.

-Time to deal Mookie and JD(if he opts in) and see what you can get. The pitching needs to be the major point of emphasis this winter. So disgusted and tired of this revolving door of relievers starting and then stating pitchers not being able to go past 5 innings. In a Mookie deal, if they can get starting pitcher Kyle Wright and center fielder Christian Pache (Braves top pitching and outfield prospect who should be ready by 2020, then perfect.)  Mookie is from Nashville with Atlanta being the closest competitive baseball team. JBJ can play RF.

-Sign Gerrit Cole to a 7yr/240 mil deal. Overpay? Maybe....but one that's worthy. Who knows what on earth we're going to see next year from Sale, Price and Eovaldi. If these 3 guys break down with injuries, as might as well kiss the next 2-3 seasons goodbye. Not to mention, Sale isn't out of the Tommy John woods yet (and wonder if that might be the best thing for him, so at least he can come back healthy in 2021.)

-Sign a closer...whether it's thinking big like Will Smith (no, not the actor), Aroldis Chapman (if he opts out of deal with Yankees) or even a smaller acquisition like Daniel Hudson or Steve Cishek.

-Going to back the starting rotation, move either Price or Eovaldi to the bullpen. More than likely Eovaldi as I feel he might have more longevity as a reliever. 

-Trim the fat and get rid of the worthless relievers like Steven Wright, Hector Velasquez, Josh Smith and Ryan Braiser.

-Call up some of the top prospects like Bobby Dalbec, Tanner Houck and Kyle Hart. Maybe Houck or Hart can be slotted in as a 5th starter. Time of integrate some of your farm system into the big league roster. Bryan Mata and Denyi Reyes could be ready by mid-season as well.  Play Dalbec at 1st and leave Devers at 3rd.  Chavis can  platoon at DH and at 2nd base with Marco Hernandaez OR, stick it to the Yankees and sign Didi Gregorious to play 2nd base. Imagine an infield of Devers, Bogaerts, Gregorious and Dalbec.

-Let Holt, Moreland and Porcello walk.

-Turn a new page in 2020 and field a team that can compete for another World Series.

Lots of money off the books with Betts, Martinez, Porcello, Moreland, Holt, Pearce and the contracts of Nunez and Pablo off the books.

Will the Sox do ANY of this? Probably not.

Re: 2019 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #249 on: September 08, 2019, 12:54:24 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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Red Sox wins World Series, come out disappointed the following season.

Meh hopefully they do something next year.

Re: 2019 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #250 on: September 08, 2019, 01:18:11 PM »

Offline gpap

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Red Sox wins World Series, come out disappointed the following season.

Meh hopefully they do something next year.

I sure hope so, otherwise they run the risk of being the least popular Boston sports team with crickets being heard at Fenway.

But hey, as long as Sweet Caroline keeps playing, it's all good.

Re: 2019 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #251 on: September 08, 2019, 02:33:42 PM »

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Just some Sunday morning musings on the Sox, amidst the Antonio Brown mania and on the heels of a disgusting loss after being shutdown by worthless JA Happ of the Yankees.

-Time to deal Mookie and JD(if he opts in) and see what you can get. The pitching needs to be the major point of emphasis this winter. So disgusted and tired of this revolving door of relievers starting and then stating pitchers not being able to go past 5 innings. In a Mookie deal, if they can get starting pitcher Kyle Wright and center fielder Christian Pache (Braves top pitching and outfield prospect who should be ready by 2020, then perfect.)  Mookie is from Nashville with Atlanta being the closest competitive baseball team. JBJ can play RF.

-Sign Gerrit Cole to a 7yr/240 mil deal. Overpay? Maybe....but one that's worthy. Who knows what on earth we're going to see next year from Sale, Price and Eovaldi. If these 3 guys break down with injuries, as might as well kiss the next 2-3 seasons goodbye. Not to mention, Sale isn't out of the Tommy John woods yet (and wonder if that might be the best thing for him, so at least he can come back healthy in 2021.)

-Sign a closer...whether it's thinking big like Will Smith (no, not the actor), Aroldis Chapman (if he opts out of deal with Yankees) or even a smaller acquisition like Daniel Hudson or Steve Cishek.

-Going to back the starting rotation, move either Price or Eovaldi to the bullpen. More than likely Eovaldi as I feel he might have more longevity as a reliever. 

-Trim the fat and get rid of the worthless relievers like Steven Wright, Hector Velasquez, Josh Smith and Ryan Braiser.

-Call up some of the top prospects like Bobby Dalbec, Tanner Houck and Kyle Hart. Maybe Houck or Hart can be slotted in as a 5th starter. Time of integrate some of your farm system into the big league roster. Bryan Mata and Denyi Reyes could be ready by mid-season as well.  Play Dalbec at 1st and leave Devers at 3rd.  Chavis can  platoon at DH and at 2nd base with Marco Hernandaez OR, stick it to the Yankees and sign Didi Gregorious to play 2nd base. Imagine an infield of Devers, Bogaerts, Gregorious and Dalbec.

-Let Holt, Moreland and Porcello walk.

-Turn a new page in 2020 and field a team that can compete for another World Series.

Lots of money off the books with Betts, Martinez, Porcello, Moreland, Holt, Pearce and the contracts of Nunez and Pablo off the books.

Will the Sox do ANY of this? Probably not.

Seems like our hitting is fine, we just had some bad pitching production; injuries didn't help.  What you're proposing (trading Betts and Martinez) is panic move.   Focus should be on rehabbing Sales and Price, Rodriguez is decent, just need a 4th starter.  We're one year from WS win and record regular season.  Not saying to stay pat, just don't panic.

Re: 2019 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #252 on: September 20, 2019, 11:31:57 PM »

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Red Sox have been officially eliminated from playoff contention after the 5-4 extra innings loss to the Rays. Trevor Kelley (Trevor Who) gave up a walk off single in the 11th. Not his fault but not the Red Sox year.
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Re: 2019 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #253 on: September 21, 2019, 12:51:47 AM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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A pathetic season. Sale ends the season on the injured list, but I don't think injuries were his problem most of the season—he just plain stunk. Price had a good first half but then he went downhill. Porcello was downright terrible, perhaps the worst starter in the majors this season according to advanced stats, and hopefully the Sox don't re-sign him. E-Rod was better than I expected, so hopefully that continues next year.

Overall, I'm not confident that the pitching works out next season. Sale's best days may very well be behind him—he'll be 31 at the start of next season, has been injured the last couple seasons, and has always been a hard thrower despite being of slight build, which doesn't bode well for his body holding up. Price is now 34. Eovaldi has an extensive injury history. I mean, I think a lot of things will have to break correctly, and the odds of that happening are low.

Not to mention that even if they keep Mookie and JD returns, a decent chunk of the order is awful and needs to be addressed—Bradley is just not a good hitter, Benintendi isn't panning out, Leon is terrible, Holt hits for average but little else. A Betts/Bogaerts/Devers/Martinez core is a great foundation, but they'll need more than that to compete at a high level.
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Re: 2019 Red Sox Thread
« Reply #254 on: September 22, 2019, 11:46:55 AM »

Offline gpap

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A pathetic season. Sale ends the season on the injured list, but I don't think injuries were his problem most of the season—he just plain stunk. Price had a good first half but then he went downhill. Porcello was downright terrible, perhaps the worst starter in the majors this season according to advanced stats, and hopefully the Sox don't re-sign him. E-Rod was better than I expected, so hopefully that continues next year.

Overall, I'm not confident that the pitching works out next season. Sale's best days may very well be behind him—he'll be 31 at the start of next season, has been injured the last couple seasons, and has always been a hard thrower despite being of slight build, which doesn't bode well for his body holding up. Price is now 34. Eovaldi has an extensive injury history. I mean, I think a lot of things will have to break correctly, and the odds of that happening are low.

Not to mention that even if they keep Mookie and JD returns, a decent chunk of the order is awful and needs to be addressed—Bradley is just not a good hitter, Benintendi isn't panning out, Leon is terrible, Holt hits for average but little else. A Betts/Bogaerts/Devers/Martinez core is a great foundation, but they'll need more than that to compete at a high level.

Yeah, the Sale extension is the killer and why ultimately I think Dombrowski got fired. Once news broke Sale had elbow inflammation, that was it for DD (though Henry deserves blame, he does sign the contracts.)

I also think it might be in Sale's best interest to have some type of surgery (whether it's TJ or whatever) and get him right to pitch effectively for the latter part of this career for 2021 and beyond so that extension isn't a total waste.

I do believe Mookie gets dealt this offseason. Someone will have to be the odd man out and I think it will be him.

Right now, the Sox need pitching, BADLY. The bullpen has coughed it up the last two nights in Tampa. Even if JD leaves, it wouldn't phase me. Start with the pitching, and work your way down.

I don't the Sox are beyond repair and with the right moves, they can return to World Series contention as early as next season. But it's going to take some bold and creative moves by the next GM.

Pitching is what it's all about. Look at the Astros with Verlander and Cole.....