It feels like people are changing their minds about Kyrie

[PatrickLencioni]

I've been slammed a few times for suggesting that Kyrie is not making the team better, and that it would be better to build a team with team guys.  And that's fine - I'm not looking for sympathy. But I've been reading here and hearing on podcasts like Bill Simmons' that people are starting to see that the Celtics are a better TEAM without Kyrie.  Specifically, when you look at games when he's not playing, the quality of play is better.  It's not just when he goes to the bench in a game, because that usually doesn't change the cultural tenor of the team.  But when the other players know he's not playing, they play better.  More movement.  More passing.  Better defense.  More enthusiasm.  If we were great last year at the end of the year, and we add Hayward to that mix, and then use the money we save from Kyrie to bring in an unselfish point guard or rim protector, can't we improve?  I think the idea that Kyrie isn't a team guy is starting to become a reality.  And it's okay to roast me for this.  It's all in the spirit of figuring it out.

[gouki88]

I think it's the same people saying the same things

[SparzWizard]

No Kyrie means no stopping Curry in the NBA Finals.

To beat superteams you need to form superteams.

[RPGenerate]

If you like mediocrity, than this is the perfect choice. Let's fire Brad and Danny while we're at it and hire Thibs and Sam Hinkie. And the only reason it seems like people are changing their minds is because of the Kyrie haters that hide away from the site until an excuse comes up to bash him.

[PatrickLencioni]

I don't think so.  I think the results, and the observable behavior, are changing people's minds.  This team doesn't seem to enjoy playing together.  And we're nullifying Brad Stephens' ability to coach.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I think we'll be reading about how unpleasant things are as soon as he signs with the Knicks.

[RJ87]

I think it's the same people saying the same things

Yup.

And I'm not sure why this thread is different than the other 39,028,411,941 anti-Kyrie threads because there's nothing new except an OP who doesn't want to use the search feature.

[gouki88]

I don't think so.  I think the results, and the observable behavior, are changing people's minds.  This team doesn't seem to enjoy playing together.  And we're nullifying Brad Stephens' ability to coach.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I think we'll be reading about how unpleasant things are as soon as he signs with the Knicks.

Brad being in the midst of his worst coaching season in the NBA so far is doing that.

[pistal47]

I've been slammed a few times for suggesting that Kyrie is not making the team better, and that it would be better to build a team with team guys.  And that's fine - I'm not looking for sympathy. But I've been reading here and hearing on podcasts like Bill Simmons' that people are starting to see that the Celtics are a better TEAM without Kyrie.  Specifically, when you look at games when he's not playing, the quality of play is better.  It's not just when he goes to the bench in a game, because that usually doesn't change the cultural tenor of the team.  But when the other players know he's not playing, they play better.  More movement.  More passing.  Better defense.  More enthusiasm.  If we were great last year at the end of the year, and we add Hayward to that mix, and then use the money we save from Kyrie to bring in an unselfish point guard or rim protector, can't we improve?  I think the idea that Kyrie isn't a team guy is starting to become a reality.  And it's okay to roast me for this.  It's all in the spirit of figuring it out.

Great post and I think you've been right all along and unfortunately caught heat for simply airing out your view. Shame.

[LarBrd33]

Yes, the hate propaganda campaign is working.  Real shame.  Lot of soft fans in this community.

[gouki88]

I've been slammed a few times for suggesting that Kyrie is not making the team better, and that it would be better to build a team with team guys.  And that's fine - I'm not looking for sympathy. But I've been reading here and hearing on podcasts like Bill Simmons' that people are starting to see that the Celtics are a better TEAM without Kyrie.  Specifically, when you look at games when he's not playing, the quality of play is better.  It's not just when he goes to the bench in a game, because that usually doesn't change the cultural tenor of the team.  But when the other players know he's not playing, they play better.  More movement.  More passing.  Better defense.  More enthusiasm.  If we were great last year at the end of the year, and we add Hayward to that mix, and then use the money we save from Kyrie to bring in an unselfish point guard or rim protector, can't we improve?  I think the idea that Kyrie isn't a team guy is starting to become a reality.  And it's okay to roast me for this.  It's all in the spirit of figuring it out.

Great post and I think you've been right all along and unfortunately caught heat for simply airing out your view. Shame.

I think it's more because there are a heap of posts like this all over the place. There are numbers upon numbers of anti-Kyrie threads, and it can get tiresome seeing the same points rehashed over and over

[RPGenerate]

No Kyrie means no stopping Curry in the NBA Finals.

To beat superteams you need to form superteams.

Forget about Curry and the Warriors, is that team without Kyrie even beating the Raptors or Bucks in the second round? I doubt it.

[PAOBoston]

Yes, the hate propaganda campaign is working.  Real shame.  Lot of soft fans in this community.

Not that surprising. Boston has some of the most bandwagon fans around. Not that surprising considering all the hubbub about the Cs in the offseason.

Irving leaving the Cs would be a massive gut punch to the franchise and basically end any sort of near future title contention for this team barring something unforeseen. To get to where they want to get, they need players of Kyrie's caliber. Big issue this year imo is too many mouths to feed for young guys trying to get paid and Hayward’s slow recovery to his normal self.

[tenn_smoothie]

No Kyrie means no stopping Curry in the NBA Finals.

To beat superteams you need to form superteams.

How were the "superteam" Warriors built ?
By drafting good players and letting them develop into a great team.

[knuckleballer]

I really think people will change their minds about Kyrie if we pull off the Davis trade.  Davis will be 1A and Kyrie 1B.  Hayward should be much improved in his 2nd year back from injury.  If we can hold on to Smart and re-sign Horford, they will fit in beautifully since they don't need to score.  Rozier and his score first mentality will be gone.  The pieces will fit together much better than the current roster.  Winning fixes all. 

[gpap]

I don't think anyone (like myself) who appreciates Kyrie as a talent has changed their mind about him as a player.

I won't speak for anyone, but I think it has more to do with Kyrie's future in regards to the Celtics success.

Tonight's win aside, if the Celts continue to struggle and they falter in the playoffs, then it's easier to assume Kyrie is gone.
The Celts will carry on with the rest of their roster, excluding any moves Ainge makes this summer.

If the Celts turns things around and go on a deep playoff run, then the narrative changes and Kyrie would be viewed as symbolic with the Celtics success.

To me, it all ties into the Celtics success (or possible lack thereof) being contingent on Kyrie and how the season ends will be a major factor in Kyrie's free agency decision.

Sadly, this past week's struggles really resonated with the anti-Kyrie crowd, who have been in full force.

If they were winning, you wouldn't hear a single peep about Kyrie.