Selling off Rozier and Morris for picks?

[gpap]

I have always loved Rozier, but don't see him as a major piece moving forward. To get under the luxury tax, I would deal him and Bird to a team with a TPE (or cap space) and then pick up a buyout FA for the rest of the season. It would also signify to Kyrie that we are all in on him moving forward.

I am not a huge Morris fan - although he has had a great season! - but trading a starter putting up 15/6 on great efficiency for a late 1st/early 2nd is the definition of waving the white flag. I doubt we re-sign him, but I don't want Kyrie to think that we aren't really trying (and, yes, I care about what Kyrie thinks - losing a player of his caliber for nothing can set a franchise back for years).

If Celts trade for AD then that means Celts would lose a lot of players.

Morris can be re-signed as the Celts own his Bird rights.
But he's not a restricted FA, so Celts might lose out if another team offers a lot of money.

If Tatum's going to the Pels, the package deal might include Horford or Smart to make salaries match.
That means the Celts will be needing Morris' scoring next season and beyond.

Agreed and I hadn't looked it that way. I mention in another thread the Celts would have to include Smart in a package for salaries to match along with Tatum, draft picks and filler (Williams, Ojeleye, etc.)

So from that standpoint, keeping Morris and Rozier and possibly re-signing them this summer makes alot of sense.

[JBcat]

Morris and Rozier for Vucevic is a better option.

But Wannamaker has proven he can play some backup, and there is still Smart here as well.

Baynes instead of Morris and Rozier for Vucevic.

But I think Orlando will want more now that Vooch is an All-Star.

If you add salaries like Bird and Williams the trade would work under NBA rules.  Vooch is a pending FA though so if you want to flip him in a Davis deal it would be very difficult to do.  Unless if you re-sign Vooch, and we can get Horford to opt in as salary filler in a trade for Davis (or 3 team deal).

Ainge is such a good GM he’ll probably find a way to make us better this year AND get more assets to use in a potential Davis trade. Haha

[Fierce1]

I have always loved Rozier, but don't see him as a major piece moving forward. To get under the luxury tax, I would deal him and Bird to a team with a TPE (or cap space) and then pick up a buyout FA for the rest of the season. It would also signify to Kyrie that we are all in on him moving forward.

I am not a huge Morris fan - although he has had a great season! - but trading a starter putting up 15/6 on great efficiency for a late 1st/early 2nd is the definition of waving the white flag. I doubt we re-sign him, but I don't want Kyrie to think that we aren't really trying (and, yes, I care about what Kyrie thinks - losing a player of his caliber for nothing can set a franchise back for years).

If Celts trade for AD then that means Celts would lose a lot of players.

Morris can be re-signed as the Celts own his Bird rights.
But he's not a restricted FA, so Celts might lose out if another team offers a lot of money.

If Tatum's going to the Pels, the package deal might include Horford or Smart to make salaries match.
That means the Celts will be needing Morris' scoring next season and beyond.

Agreed and I hadn't looked it that way. I mention in another thread the Celts would have to include Smart in a package for salaries to match along with Tatum, draft picks and filler (Williams, Ojeleye, etc.)

So from that standpoint, keeping Morris and Rozier and possibly re-signing them this summer makes alot of sense.

True.

Another option would be to keep Smart and give up Horford instead.

For salaries to match, Celts would have to include Smart or Horford.

Right now I think it's better if the Celts keep Smart instead of Horford.

[Fierce1]

Morris and Rozier for Vucevic is a better option.

But Wannamaker has proven he can play some backup, and there is still Smart here as well.

Baynes instead of Morris and Rozier for Vucevic.

But I think Orlando will want more now that Vooch is an All-Star.

If you add salaries like Bird and Williams the trade would work under NBA rules.  Vooch is a pending FA though so if you want to flip him in a Davis deal it would be very difficult to do.  Unless if you re-sign Vooch, and we can get Horford to opt in as salary filler in a trade for Davis (or 3 team deal).

Ainge is such a good GM he’ll probably find a way to make us better this year AND get more assets to use in a potential Davis trade. Haha

I really don't want to give up Wililams.
Rob Williams will be a starter in the near future.

Flipping Vooch in an AD deal is not doable since Vooch becomes an Unrestricted FA after the season.

What I'm thinking is including Horford in the package for AD, instead of Smart.

If Celts trade for Vooch now, they can re-sign him in the summer as the Celts have his Bird rights.

Getting Vooch actually gives the Celts more options if they can get him in a trade now.
Vooch would be an ugprade this season.
Celts will have more rebounding and inside scoring.
After the season, Celts can give him a new contract.

It's really possible the Celts can have Vooch and AD as starters next season.

[jambr380]

I have always loved Rozier, but don't see him as a major piece moving forward. To get under the luxury tax, I would deal him and Bird to a team with a TPE (or cap space) and then pick up a buyout FA for the rest of the season. It would also signify to Kyrie that we are all in on him moving forward.

I am not a huge Morris fan - although he has had a great season! - but trading a starter putting up 15/6 on great efficiency for a late 1st/early 2nd is the definition of waving the white flag. I doubt we re-sign him, but I don't want Kyrie to think that we aren't really trying (and, yes, I care about what Kyrie thinks - losing a player of his caliber for nothing can set a franchise back for years).

If Celts trade for AD then that means Celts would lose a lot of players.

Morris can be re-signed as the Celts own his Bird rights.
But he's not a restricted FA, so Celts might lose out if another team offers a lot of money.

If Tatum's going to the Pels, the package deal might include Horford or Smart to make salaries match.
That means the Celts will be needing Morris' scoring next season and beyond.

Agreed and I hadn't looked it that way. I mention in another thread the Celts would have to include Smart in a package for salaries to match along with Tatum, draft picks and filler (Williams, Ojeleye, etc.)

So from that standpoint, keeping Morris and Rozier and possibly re-signing them this summer makes alot of sense.

It only makes sense if they come cheap. Anything under $10M/yr, then I can certainly see an argument for keeping them. However, if we plan to keep Horford, Hayward, Kyrie, AD, and sign Jaylen to a big contract, then we are going to need a number of cheap players - like vet minimum cheap.

I realize Horford might take a pay-cut this off-season, but at best we are looking at like $15M/yr over 4 years (and more likely $20M/yr). Kyrie and AD will be maxed out much higher than they are now. And, if we don't extend Jaylen, then another team might offer him a max contract in 2020 in which we will be forced to match or lose him for nothing. That's why it may actually make more sense to keep Smart and his controlled, long-term contract over the uncertainty (and potential) of Brown.

I am all for keeping as many good players as possible. I liked guys like Turner, KO, AB, even Sullinger - but all were sacrificed in order to keep a balanced payroll, and if we are going to keep Horford and Hayward (max guys that you don't want to be the full max to), then there will be cap casualties.

[nickagneta]

Ok, since Jan. 1, they are 14-4 and playing as well as any other team in the league.

Irving
Smart
Morris
Tatum
Horford are pretty much killin' it. Not a hole to be found there.

Brown
Rozier
Hayward
Baynes are the bench

Except for Baynes, they could all start on most NBA teams and they are rounding into form now.

No team in either conference wants to play these guys. Golden State is a generational all star team, there is nothing to be done until they break up other than get to the finals and these guys look fine in a series with Milwaukee or Toronto who are better this year than last.

Just why in he%$ do you want to blow this up for more draft picks?

In 2019 and then 2020 the Celtics have nowhere to put all the picks they have. Essentially the Celtics HAVE to trade two picks this year and one next year depending on results, while chucking their second rounders.

More picks for Davis? Ainge will stiff the Pelicans like he stiff's everyone else. The Pelicans will get what one year of Davis is worth and nothing more.

Because a team is performing well, doesn't have to mean that all components do. But you are right those starters are ''pretty much killin' it''. The Celtics have the 2rd best starting line up in the NBA behind GSW, based on advanced stats, net rating (15.4 NR). Our offense, offensive rating (118.7 OR), is 2nd best (again) behind the Warriors. Our defensive rating (103.3 DR) on the other hand is not in the top 10.

The 15 best (NR +3 or better) starting line ups this year are: 1.Golden State, 2.Boston, 3.Philadelphia, 4.Detroit (surprise), 5.Oklahoma City, 6.Orlando (surprise), 7.Memphis, 8.Milwaukee, 9.Toronto, 10.Charlotte, 11.Denver, 12.Portland, 13.Indiana, 14.Utah and 15.Minnesota. This group contains mostly playoff teams of course.

Current playoff teams that are not on here are: Houston (injuries, no regular good performing starting line-up), San Antonio (relying on bench), LA Clippers (heavily relying on bench), Brooklyn (injuries, no common line up) and Miami (injuries, good bench). Even though there's a reasonable chance that Detroit overtakes Miami in the standings, I will exclude them with Orlando, Memphis and Minnesota (who will almost surely not make the playoffs), in my next comparison with Boston. So then I have the 11 best and relevant starting line-ups.

Out of those 11 playoff teams the Boston Celtics rank #5 in DR (103.3). Not even that bad perhaps. Their DREB% (72,6) ranks #8 , AST% (58,9) ranks #8, while their TS% (62,6) ranks #2. What I'm getting out of this, is that our defense with this line up is pretty good, but far from spectacular. That we often have trouble with rebounding the ball and that our offense is a bit stagnant. However we shoot the ball very well. 

To me that are stats that meet the eye. All our starters can shoot the 3-ball, most (Irving, Tatum, Morris) are capable of creating points in isolation and often do that. None of the starters is known to be an exceptional rebounder. So the offense is excellent, but I worry about the defense. Specifically about our frontcourt duo Morris/Horford.

Of all Celtics duo's, that have at least played 100 minutes together, the combination Morris/Horford ranks #52 (of 53 possibilities!) as defensive rating (105.8 DR). Some DR examples of other combo's: Horford/Baynes (78.8 on 52 mins), Morris/Theis (99.2) and Morris/Baynes (101.5).

Also Horford is one none of the 30 best combinations (that play 100+ mins) and Morris only once (the combo with Theis). If you look at those stats you get the impression that Morris and Horford are terrible defenders. Their individual DR's are also the worst on the whole team (105.4 and 105.2). Irving's DR (104.4) isn't good either, but it's interesting that he's much better playing with Baynes (96.4) or Theis (97.7) at center than with Horford (103.7).

So my point is that our current starting line-up (Irving/Smart/Tatum/Morris/Horford) is doing quite well, despite that our frontcourt in this combination is terribly defensively. We're vulnerable, but we shoot so well that it doesn't seem to make a difference. But I think during the playoffs it will. We need a basis we can rely on. And as I often have done I advocate to try Horford/Baynes (if healthy).

My personal opinion is that Horford isn't a bad defender at all, but that he drowns on this team. Give him Baynes to help him rebound and protect the rim. It will help Irving and others (knowing that they'll be covered in the case they get beat by their man). Morris works well with Theis, so you have your back-up frontcourt laid out as well. Do we give up something on offense? Yes, probably a little bit, but that's well worth it if that improves the defense by a big margin. Also Baynes isn't useless on offense, he sets great screens, can shoot a little (percentages: 47/33/85) and he's an elite offensive rebounder (11,4%)

So our new Celtics starting line-up would become: Irving/Smart/Tatum/Horford/Baynes. Curious how that line-up has done so far? Here are the stats:

Offensive rating: 162.5
Defensive rating: 84.2
Net rating: +78.3

DREB%: 85,7
TS%: 105,5 (LOL!)

Granted this is a very small sample size of only 8 minutes, but definitely worth a try in my book. And since when has Brad Stevens stopped caring about our defense?

I think you went from analysis to paralysis here. It sure seems you decided who you wanted as a starting five and went through a ton of work just to show a unit that was together for 8 minutes is the one that should always be there.

You really shouldn't have gone any farther than seeing that the Celtics starting team, which has a proven track record of success over hundreds of minutes together, is the 2nd best in the league with a net rating of over 15 points, which is huge.

Also, 103 as a defensive rating is dang good. Other starting lineups that are predicated on being a strong defensive starting 5 might be better but the Celtics starters, as a whole, are a two way squad and excel on both ends.

[nickagneta]

I have always loved Rozier, but don't see him as a major piece moving forward. To get under the luxury tax, I would deal him and Bird to a team with a TPE (or cap space) and then pick up a buyout FA for the rest of the season. It would also signify to Kyrie that we are all in on him moving forward.

I am not a huge Morris fan - although he has had a great season! - but trading a starter putting up 15/6 on great efficiency for a late 1st/early 2nd is the definition of waving the white flag. I doubt we re-sign him, but I don't want Kyrie to think that we aren't really trying (and, yes, I care about what Kyrie thinks - losing a player of his caliber for nothing can set a franchise back for years).

If Celts trade for AD then that means Celts would lose a lot of players.

Morris can be re-signed as the Celts own his Bird rights.
But he's not a restricted FA, so Celts might lose out if another team offers a lot of money.

If Tatum's going to the Pels, the package deal might include Horford or Smart to make salaries match.
That means the Celts will be needing Morris' scoring next season and beyond.

Agreed and I hadn't looked it that way. I mention in another thread the Celts would have to include Smart in a package for salaries to match along with Tatum, draft picks and filler (Williams, Ojeleye, etc.)

So from that standpoint, keeping Morris and Rozier and possibly re-signing them this summer makes alot of sense.

It only makes sense if they come cheap. Anything under $10M/yr, then I can certainly see an argument for keeping them. However, if we plan to keep Horford, Hayward, Kyrie, AD, and sign Jaylen to a big contract, then we are going to need a number of cheap players - like vet minimum cheap.

I realize Horford might take a pay-cut this off-season, but at best we are looking at like $15M/yr over 4 years (and more likely $20M/yr). Kyrie and AD will be maxed out much higher than they are now. And, if we don't extend Jaylen, then another team might offer him a max contract in 2020 in which we will be forced to match or lose him for nothing. That's why it may actually make more sense to keep Smart and his controlled, long-term contract over the uncertainty (and potential) of Brown.

I am all for keeping as many good players as possible. I liked guys like Turner, KO, AB, even Sullinger - but all were sacrificed in order to keep a balanced payroll, and if we are going to keep Horford and Hayward (max guys that you don't want to be the full max to), then there will be cap casualties.

I don't see there being cap casualty problems until the Celtics are getting up toward multiple years in the tax and being a repeat tax offender. That's possibly three or more years from now.

[jambr380]

I have always loved Rozier, but don't see him as a major piece moving forward. To get under the luxury tax, I would deal him and Bird to a team with a TPE (or cap space) and then pick up a buyout FA for the rest of the season. It would also signify to Kyrie that we are all in on him moving forward.

I am not a huge Morris fan - although he has had a great season! - but trading a starter putting up 15/6 on great efficiency for a late 1st/early 2nd is the definition of waving the white flag. I doubt we re-sign him, but I don't want Kyrie to think that we aren't really trying (and, yes, I care about what Kyrie thinks - losing a player of his caliber for nothing can set a franchise back for years).

If Celts trade for AD then that means Celts would lose a lot of players.

Morris can be re-signed as the Celts own his Bird rights.
But he's not a restricted FA, so Celts might lose out if another team offers a lot of money.

If Tatum's going to the Pels, the package deal might include Horford or Smart to make salaries match.
That means the Celts will be needing Morris' scoring next season and beyond.

Agreed and I hadn't looked it that way. I mention in another thread the Celts would have to include Smart in a package for salaries to match along with Tatum, draft picks and filler (Williams, Ojeleye, etc.)

So from that standpoint, keeping Morris and Rozier and possibly re-signing them this summer makes alot of sense.

It only makes sense if they come cheap. Anything under $10M/yr, then I can certainly see an argument for keeping them. However, if we plan to keep Horford, Hayward, Kyrie, AD, and sign Jaylen to a big contract, then we are going to need a number of cheap players - like vet minimum cheap.

I realize Horford might take a pay-cut this off-season, but at best we are looking at like $15M/yr over 4 years (and more likely $20M/yr). Kyrie and AD will be maxed out much higher than they are now. And, if we don't extend Jaylen, then another team might offer him a max contract in 2020 in which we will be forced to match or lose him for nothing. That's why it may actually make more sense to keep Smart and his controlled, long-term contract over the uncertainty (and potential) of Brown.

I am all for keeping as many good players as possible. I liked guys like Turner, KO, AB, even Sullinger - but all were sacrificed in order to keep a balanced payroll, and if we are going to keep Horford and Hayward (max guys that you don't want to be the full max to), then there will be cap casualties.

I don't see there being cap casualty problems until the Celtics are getting up toward multiple years in the tax and being a repeat tax offender. That's possibly three or more years from now.

How so? The repeat tax is killer, but it's not like there isn't a stiff penalty for spending well above the tax. If we deal Tatum/Smart/Yabu/picks for AD, then we will have Hayward and Irving on max contracts with AD and Brown up for contracts in 2020. If we decide not to keep Horford, then that solves most of our issues, but that is another $15-20M/yr on the books before we even get to mid-level contract guys like Morris and Rozier. Next year, we will be 'okay', but it kind-of falls apart after that.

If we acquire AD, then it will be about finding value in secondary players for Ainge moving forward - more than ever before. Ownership will be willing to pay tax for a contender, but 4 max guys, plus Horford, plus Rozier/Morris, etc will be a lot to swallow.

[JBcat]

I have always loved Rozier, but don't see him as a major piece moving forward. To get under the luxury tax, I would deal him and Bird to a team with a TPE (or cap space) and then pick up a buyout FA for the rest of the season. It would also signify to Kyrie that we are all in on him moving forward.

I am not a huge Morris fan - although he has had a great season! - but trading a starter putting up 15/6 on great efficiency for a late 1st/early 2nd is the definition of waving the white flag. I doubt we re-sign him, but I don't want Kyrie to think that we aren't really trying (and, yes, I care about what Kyrie thinks - losing a player of his caliber for nothing can set a franchise back for years).

If Celts trade for AD then that means Celts would lose a lot of players.

Morris can be re-signed as the Celts own his Bird rights.
But he's not a restricted FA, so Celts might lose out if another team offers a lot of money.

If Tatum's going to the Pels, the package deal might include Horford or Smart to make salaries match.
That means the Celts will be needing Morris' scoring next season and beyond.

Agreed and I hadn't looked it that way. I mention in another thread the Celts would have to include Smart in a package for salaries to match along with Tatum, draft picks and filler (Williams, Ojeleye, etc.)

So from that standpoint, keeping Morris and Rozier and possibly re-signing them this summer makes alot of sense.

It only makes sense if they come cheap. Anything under $10M/yr, then I can certainly see an argument for keeping them. However, if we plan to keep Horford, Hayward, Kyrie, AD, and sign Jaylen to a big contract, then we are going to need a number of cheap players - like vet minimum cheap.

I realize Horford might take a pay-cut this off-season, but at best we are looking at like $15M/yr over 4 years (and more likely $20M/yr). Kyrie and AD will be maxed out much higher than they are now. And, if we don't extend Jaylen, then another team might offer him a max contract in 2020 in which we will be forced to match or lose him for nothing. That's why it may actually make more sense to keep Smart and his controlled, long-term contract over the uncertainty (and potential) of Brown.

I am all for keeping as many good players as possible. I liked guys like Turner, KO, AB, even Sullinger - but all were sacrificed in order to keep a balanced payroll, and if we are going to keep Horford and Hayward (max guys that you don't want to be the full max to), then there will be cap casualties.

I don't see there being cap casualty problems until the Celtics are getting up toward multiple years in the tax and being a repeat tax offender. That's possibly three or more years from now.

How so? The repeat tax is killer, but it's not like there isn't a stiff penalty for spending well above the tax. If we deal Tatum/Smart/Yabu/picks for AD, then we will have Hayward and Irving on max contracts with AD and Brown up for contracts in 2020. If we decide not to keep Horford, then that solves most of our issues, but that is another $15-20M/yr on the books before we even get to mid-level contract guys like Morris and Rozier. Next year, we will be 'okay', but it kind-of falls apart after that.

If we acquire AD, then it will be about finding value in secondary players for Ainge moving forward - more than ever before. Ownership will be willing to pay tax for a contender, but 4 max guys, plus Horford, plus Rozier/Morris, etc will be a lot to swallow.

I don’t see Brown getting a max contract on his second contract.  Hayward will have an opt out a year from this summer.  Maybe we could do something similar for both Horford and Hayward where they opt out, and sign longer cheaper deals (if they aren’t traded by then).

[Chief Macho]

I love it.  Morris is just getting in the way of Brown and Hayward.

[nickagneta]

I have always loved Rozier, but don't see him as a major piece moving forward. To get under the luxury tax, I would deal him and Bird to a team with a TPE (or cap space) and then pick up a buyout FA for the rest of the season. It would also signify to Kyrie that we are all in on him moving forward.

I am not a huge Morris fan - although he has had a great season! - but trading a starter putting up 15/6 on great efficiency for a late 1st/early 2nd is the definition of waving the white flag. I doubt we re-sign him, but I don't want Kyrie to think that we aren't really trying (and, yes, I care about what Kyrie thinks - losing a player of his caliber for nothing can set a franchise back for years).

If Celts trade for AD then that means Celts would lose a lot of players.

Morris can be re-signed as the Celts own his Bird rights.
But he's not a restricted FA, so Celts might lose out if another team offers a lot of money.

If Tatum's going to the Pels, the package deal might include Horford or Smart to make salaries match.
That means the Celts will be needing Morris' scoring next season and beyond.

Agreed and I hadn't looked it that way. I mention in another thread the Celts would have to include Smart in a package for salaries to match along with Tatum, draft picks and filler (Williams, Ojeleye, etc.)

So from that standpoint, keeping Morris and Rozier and possibly re-signing them this summer makes alot of sense.

It only makes sense if they come cheap. Anything under $10M/yr, then I can certainly see an argument for keeping them. However, if we plan to keep Horford, Hayward, Kyrie, AD, and sign Jaylen to a big contract, then we are going to need a number of cheap players - like vet minimum cheap.

I realize Horford might take a pay-cut this off-season, but at best we are looking at like $15M/yr over 4 years (and more likely $20M/yr). Kyrie and AD will be maxed out much higher than they are now. And, if we don't extend Jaylen, then another team might offer him a max contract in 2020 in which we will be forced to match or lose him for nothing. That's why it may actually make more sense to keep Smart and his controlled, long-term contract over the uncertainty (and potential) of Brown.

I am all for keeping as many good players as possible. I liked guys like Turner, KO, AB, even Sullinger - but all were sacrificed in order to keep a balanced payroll, and if we are going to keep Horford and Hayward (max guys that you don't want to be the full max to), then there will be cap casualties.

I don't see there being cap casualty problems until the Celtics are getting up toward multiple years in the tax and being a repeat tax offender. That's possibly three or more years from now.

How so? The repeat tax is killer, but it's not like there isn't a stiff penalty for spending well above the tax. If we deal Tatum/Smart/Yabu/picks for AD, then we will have Hayward and Irving on max contracts with AD and Brown up for contracts in 2020. If we decide not to keep Horford, then that solves most of our issues, but that is another $15-20M/yr on the books before we even get to mid-level contract guys like Morris and Rozier. Next year, we will be 'okay', but it kind-of falls apart after that.

If we acquire AD, then it will be about finding value in secondary players for Ainge moving forward - more than ever before. Ownership will be willing to pay tax for a contender, but 4 max guys, plus Horford, plus Rozier/Morris, etc will be a lot to swallow.

The value of the franchise has increased an average of $130 million a year since Wyc bought it. Wyc could sell it now and walk away with over $2 billion in profit plus all the individual years they made revenue profits.

A few years of paying millions in tax penalties is not going to cause the team to lose money. The Celtics have been making tons of money in profits over the last ten years, a bunch of those years being with poor teams with no chance at contending. Boston can easily afford to spend extra millions to tens of millions for say 5 years while they have a real chance at winning titles.

And given what the owners and Danny have stated...they will.

[gpap]

I have always loved Rozier, but don't see him as a major piece moving forward. To get under the luxury tax, I would deal him and Bird to a team with a TPE (or cap space) and then pick up a buyout FA for the rest of the season. It would also signify to Kyrie that we are all in on him moving forward.

I am not a huge Morris fan - although he has had a great season! - but trading a starter putting up 15/6 on great efficiency for a late 1st/early 2nd is the definition of waving the white flag. I doubt we re-sign him, but I don't want Kyrie to think that we aren't really trying (and, yes, I care about what Kyrie thinks - losing a player of his caliber for nothing can set a franchise back for years).

If Celts trade for AD then that means Celts would lose a lot of players.

Morris can be re-signed as the Celts own his Bird rights.
But he's not a restricted FA, so Celts might lose out if another team offers a lot of money.

If Tatum's going to the Pels, the package deal might include Horford or Smart to make salaries match.
That means the Celts will be needing Morris' scoring next season and beyond.

Agreed and I hadn't looked it that way. I mention in another thread the Celts would have to include Smart in a package for salaries to match along with Tatum, draft picks and filler (Williams, Ojeleye, etc.)

So from that standpoint, keeping Morris and Rozier and possibly re-signing them this summer makes alot of sense.

True.

Another option would be to keep Smart and give up Horford instead.

For salaries to match, Celts would have to include Smart or Horford.

Right now I think it's better if the Celts keep Smart instead of Horford.

I am just looking at it from the lens of the Pelicans. If I am giving up AD, then I'd rather want a very good, young defensive minded point guard than a 31 year old forward (not demeaning Al, just saying what I think the Pelicans would want.)

[gpap]

I love it.  Morris is just getting in the way of Brown and Hayward.

Except that Morris has been better than Brown and Hayward. Watch many games?

[gpap]

I have always loved Rozier, but don't see him as a major piece moving forward. To get under the luxury tax, I would deal him and Bird to a team with a TPE (or cap space) and then pick up a buyout FA for the rest of the season. It would also signify to Kyrie that we are all in on him moving forward.

I am not a huge Morris fan - although he has had a great season! - but trading a starter putting up 15/6 on great efficiency for a late 1st/early 2nd is the definition of waving the white flag. I doubt we re-sign him, but I don't want Kyrie to think that we aren't really trying (and, yes, I care about what Kyrie thinks - losing a player of his caliber for nothing can set a franchise back for years).

If Celts trade for AD then that means Celts would lose a lot of players.

Morris can be re-signed as the Celts own his Bird rights.
But he's not a restricted FA, so Celts might lose out if another team offers a lot of money.

If Tatum's going to the Pels, the package deal might include Horford or Smart to make salaries match.
That means the Celts will be needing Morris' scoring next season and beyond.

Agreed and I hadn't looked it that way. I mention in another thread the Celts would have to include Smart in a package for salaries to match along with Tatum, draft picks and filler (Williams, Ojeleye, etc.)

So from that standpoint, keeping Morris and Rozier and possibly re-signing them this summer makes alot of sense.

It only makes sense if they come cheap. Anything under $10M/yr, then I can certainly see an argument for keeping them. However, if we plan to keep Horford, Hayward, Kyrie, AD, and sign Jaylen to a big contract, then we are going to need a number of cheap players - like vet minimum cheap.

I realize Horford might take a pay-cut this off-season, but at best we are looking at like $15M/yr over 4 years (and more likely $20M/yr). Kyrie and AD will be maxed out much higher than they are now. And, if we don't extend Jaylen, then another team might offer him a max contract in 2020 in which we will be forced to match or lose him for nothing. That's why it may actually make more sense to keep Smart and his controlled, long-term contract over the uncertainty (and potential) of Brown.

I am all for keeping as many good players as possible. I liked guys like Turner, KO, AB, even Sullinger - but all were sacrificed in order to keep a balanced payroll, and if we are going to keep Horford and Hayward (max guys that you don't want to be the full max to), then there will be cap casualties.

Right now if am the Celtics, the salary cap should be the least of my worries. Field a championship caliber roster first and worry about that later. If they end up worrying too much about the cap, then they'll never put together a championship team.

The owners are filthy rich. I won't feel bad for them.

[Chief Macho]

I love it.  Morris is just getting in the way of Brown and Hayward.

Except that Morris has been better than Brown and Hayward. Watch many games?

What an overly simplistic argument.   Im more interested in getting Brown and Hayward the time they need to raise their play.