Unnamed Warrior: Hayward a “liability on both sides of the court”

[tstorey_97]

Hayward will be fine. We don't know when, but, it will come together.

In the meantime, reduce the minutes he plays that directly effect outcomes. 

This is a team. The players on the team need to win games and are working to achieve that goal. If Gordon is assigned a smaller role in key games, they will be closer to the goal.

I don't agree with bringing out stats, watch the games he's a mess right now.

This is my view? What? Stevens has cut his minutes, then has him coming off the bench and lately he's given Hayward more time with the starters. Have you watched his "shot deferral stats"? He refuses shots 80% of the time, why pass to him? I thought this was a team?

The opposing coaches know what to do don't they?

The current system of "Hayward management" is not working for the Celtics or Hayward.
He will snap out of it and maybe, tough love will do more to help him than letting him kill our bench play. The bench is a disaster for a lot of reasons, they should work on improving without Hayward.

You don't think Stevens knows this? The team spends a million on stats analysis.

[celticinorlando]

One thing is for sure...he should be highly motivated tonight coming off that dreadful performance Saturday as well as the very public criticism he probably as seen the past few days.

[Rosco917]

I have a deep-lying opinion about all the Hayward bashing. It's a rather ugly thought that I will keep to myself.

We're a brave lot...we've given Gordan Hayward almost a whole half of a season to get back to his former self, after breaking his foot in-half last year. Knowing that each serious injury is an entity of its own. No two are alike. While Paull George got a pass his entire first year back because he wasn't on our team?

Okay okay, Gordan hasn't exactly been anywhere near his former self. Is that reason for some on this site to call him some truly horrible names? The kid isn't staying out of the line-up for some fake injury as some did. He didn't want to get injured for god sake.

I understand...I understand that we have a bunch of Keyboard tough guys permeating through our society in general. The keyboard is their vehicle to deliver their poison without actually being looked in the eye and being shamed.

I guess, there is no reason for them to skip past this site...   

[wiley]

I have a deep-lying opinion about all the Hayward bashing. It's a rather ugly thought that I will keep to myself.

We're a brave lot...we've given Gordan Hayward almost a whole half of a season to get back to his former self, after breaking his foot in-half last year. Knowing that each serious injury is an entity of its own. No two are alike. While Paull George got a pass his entire first year back because he wasn't on our team?

Okay okay, Gordan hasn't exactly been anywhere near his former self. Is that reason for some on this site to call him some truly horrible names? The kid isn't staying out of the line-up for some fake injury as some did. He didn't want to get injured for god sake.

I understand...I understand that we have a bunch of Keyboard tough guys permeating through our society in general. The keyboard is their vehicle to deliver their poison without actually being looked in the eye and being shamed.

I guess, there is no reason for them to skip past this site...   

Well said. Thank you.  TP

[PhoSita]

Hayward is a liability some nights and an asset other nights.

He's still in the middle of a long recovery.

That's how it goes.

[seancally]

One of the things I've enjoyed about the CBS era is the group's focus on peaking at the right time. Have the team playing its best ball at the end of the season. The things that go into that are chemistry, playing time, working out roles, etc.

By the time the playoffs roll around, if GH is still an average (or worse) rotation player, I expect CBS will shorten the leash. I don't think they know if GH will be his former self by the playoffs or not, so they're going to stay the course in terms of minutes and role. If he plays his way back into form, that's amazing. If he doesn't, fine - shorten up the rotation in the playoffs. In the meantime, CBS spreads the minutes around so that everyone gets comfortable playing in the event of an injury, and so that the team doesn't wear itself into the ground before the playoffs. Saying "he's garbage, don't play him" is like saying the same of Theis, or Wannamaker, or Williams, or Rozier or any number of up-and-down rotation guys.

Also, my $0.02 - this sounds like something Durant would say.

[Big333223]

Also, my $0.02 - this sounds like something Durant would say.

I doubt one of the stars on GS said it. It's hard for me to think any one of them would insist on being anonymous for something like that. It's probably a benchwarmer that doesn't want to get in trouble.

[celticinorlando]

Also, my $0.02 - this sounds like something Durant would say.

I doubt one of the stars on GS said it. It's hard for me to think any one of them would insist on being anonymous for something like that. It's probably a benchwarmer that doesn't want to get in trouble.

My guess is it was Iggy.

[SHAQATTACK]

what most of the world is seeing ,  i doubt a star said it other than Green .  But im sure in private the whole GS teams thinks the same thing .

[celticinorlando]

what most of the world is seeing ,  i doubt a star said it other than Green .  But im sure in private the whole GS teams thinks the same thing .

In private, I am sure every team that has played Boston thinks the same. It is unfortunate but it is out there in the scouting reports.

[Silky]

Hayward is a liability some nights and an asset other nights.

He's still in the middle of a long recovery.

That's how it goes.

so 30+ months recovery period for a dislocated ankle and broken tibia? Cause its been 15 already.

An injury that only requires an average of 12-15 weeks to heal the bone?

So you are telling me that it is going to take someone who spent their ENTIRE life as a high level athlete a further 10-20 months the recondition and get strength back?

In a 3 month period his muscles lost that much strength?

even if his muscles atrophied I would expect a 30 million dollar player for one of the richest sport franchises in North America to be able fully recover from atrophy in a period of 13 months.

And before someone posts about his secondary surgery, that was no more invasive than Kyrie's knee surgery last season, less so I would argue as the infection made things far worse with Irving, yet Kyrie was 4-5 months with no activity and is already back in PEAK form and Gordon(whose second surgery was in march) is still NO WHERE near being an effective player on the court

[celticinorlando]

Hayward is a liability some nights and an asset other nights.

He's still in the middle of a long recovery.

That's how it goes.

so 30+ months recovery period for a dislocated ankle and broken tibia? Cause its been 15 already.

An injury that only requires an average of 12-15 weeks to heal the bone?

So you are telling me that it is going to take someone who spent their ENTIRE life as a high level athlete a further 10-20 months the recondition and get strength back?

In a 3 month period his muscles lost that much strength?

even if his muscles atrophied I would expect a 30 million dollar player for one of the richest sport franchises in North America to be able fully recover from atrophy in a period of 13 months.

And before someone posts about his secondary surgery, that was no more invasive than Kyrie's knee surgery last season, less so I would argue as the infection made things far worse with Irving, yet Kyrie was 4-5 months with no activity and is already back in PEAK form and Gordon(whose second surgery was in march) is still NO WHERE near being an effective player on the court

I do think Hayward looks physically heavier than he ever did in Utah. I am not sure he is in optimum basketball shape weight wise and that can slow him down.

I keep having this thought the light is going to stay on for him but in reality, I have just kind of written him off this season. Anything they can get out of him is a bonus. Maybe next year we see him play like he did in Utah..confident in his shot...not timid...

[Kuberski33]

what most of the world is seeing ,  i doubt a star said it other than Green .  But im sure in private the whole GS teams thinks the same thing .

Does it matter who said it? It's pretty obvious if you watch this team night in and night out.  But what's the alternative?  Pay the guy $60 million not to play?  They already ate $30 million last season.

[CF033]

Hayward is a liability some nights and an asset other nights.

He's still in the middle of a long recovery.

That's how it goes.

so 30+ months recovery period for a dislocated ankle and broken tibia? Cause its been 15 already.

An injury that only requires an average of 12-15 weeks to heal the bone?

So you are telling me that it is going to take someone who spent their ENTIRE life as a high level athlete a further 10-20 months the recondition and get strength back?

In a 3 month period his muscles lost that much strength?

even if his muscles atrophied I would expect a 30 million dollar player for one of the richest sport franchises in North America to be able fully recover from atrophy in a period of 13 months.

And before someone posts about his secondary surgery, that was no more invasive than Kyrie's knee surgery last season, less so I would argue as the infection made things far worse with Irving, yet Kyrie was 4-5 months with no activity and is already back in PEAK form and Gordon(whose second surgery was in march) is still NO WHERE near being an effective player on the court

I have to agree with this which is why I think it's more about his fit on this Celtics teams than it is about his injury.

[PhoSita]

so 30+ months recovery period for a dislocated ankle and broken tibia? Cause its been 15 already.

An injury that only requires an average of 12-15 weeks to heal the bone?

Until he has a full off-season to rebuild his strength and conditioning I won't consider him to have gone through the necessary recovery time.


Also, I think referencing the annual value of his contract is a total non-sequitor here.

A player doesn't become better at recovering from injuries by virtue of his contract value.


I think most people understood that paying a max to Hayward was a necessary overpay in order to sign him in free agency.

Utah Hayward was worth between $20-25 million per year, in my opinion.


The contract value is what it is so there's no sense in worrying about it now.  The question is how much value can Hayward provide the Celts in the present and in the future.

We can worry about how much $$ he's worth when he's a free agent again.