Trade Irving for the sake of the team

[nickagneta]

No. Just no.

It's always better to try to make more talent work, than to trade talent for less talent, just because the pieces seemingly would fit better.

Besides, maybe its Hayward's fault that he isn't playing well with Irving, not Irving's? Hayward has never played with a player like Irving. Why is it Irving's fault?

Tatum plays well (sometimes) with Irving. Horford plays well with Irving. Smart is playing the best basketball of his career with Irving. Morris plays well with Irving.

Brown played well with Irving last year, but has struggled with his new role this year.

Honestly, I love Rozier, but if he isn't fitting in well with Irving, you side with the superstar, not the potentially solid starter.

So the three that seemingly aren't playing well are:
Rozier - Who cares?
Hayward - Injury and hasn't played with a guy like Irving before
Brown - still developing and adjusting

What's the problem? Why would anyone trade a superstar because the role players aren't playing well with him? Maybe we should get a guy who plays better with Irving, instead of the other way around. Keep upper talent (Irving, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Williams) and get guys that fit around them.

-Horford has been invisble this season

True about the rest.  And we dont know if Morris is playing his best due to Kyrie/contract year/offseason prep. Smart plays the same way regardless

Overall

Hayward, Brown, Rozier , Horford and to some extent Tatum all having down years

But suddenly last night most come alive??

Explain...

Brown and Tatum and came alive last night? Was I watching a different game? And what happened to Smart, Morris and Tatum? They all played worse with Kyrie out of the game.

Last night was more about the regular ups and downs every player has during a season than anything else.

[PhoSita]

-Horford has been invisble this season

Dude ... I can't think of a better litmus test for whether you really watch the games closely than the opinion you have of Horford's impact on both ends of the court.

If you think he's invisible, you aren't paying attention.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

No. Just no.

It's always better to try to make more talent work, than to trade talent for less talent, just because the pieces seemingly would fit better.

Besides, maybe its Hayward's fault that he isn't playing well with Irving, not Irving's? Hayward has never played with a player like Irving. Why is it Irving's fault?

Tatum plays well (sometimes) with Irving. Horford plays well with Irving. Smart is playing the best basketball of his career with Irving. Morris plays well with Irving.

Brown played well with Irving last year, but has struggled with his new role this year.

Honestly, I love Rozier, but if he isn't fitting in well with Irving, you side with the superstar, not the potentially solid starter.

So the three that seemingly aren't playing well are:
Rozier - Who cares?
Hayward - Injury and hasn't played with a guy like Irving before
Brown - still developing and adjusting

What's the problem? Why would anyone trade a superstar because the role players aren't playing well with him? Maybe we should get a guy who plays better with Irving, instead of the other way around. Keep upper talent (Irving, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Williams) and get guys that fit around them.

-Horford has been invisble this season

True about the rest.  And we dont know if Morris is playing his best due to Kyrie/contract year/offseason prep. Smart plays the same way regardless

Overall

Hayward, Brown, Rozier , Horford and to some extent Tatum all having down years

But suddenly last night most come alive??

Explain...

Hayward already had a 30 point game when Irving was playing this year. Hayward stepped up in a big way to fill the void left by Irving -- that's what he should do. That's not an indictment against Irving.

Tatum and Brown did not have a great game. In fact, Brown's best game this year was last game against the Spurs when Irving was playing. Tatum's best games this year have all come when Irving was playing, largely because Tatum is not good enough yet to have the offense all fall on him.

Rozier played pretty well last night and largely did what he should do given more opportunity and usage. But that isn't an indictment against Irving. That's praise for a system and a player that had the next-man-up mentality.

The frustration of mediocre performance against the backdrop of lofty expectations have clouded people's judgement to the point where they are misdiagnosing the problems, and creating false narratives that suit alternative facts.

Irving is not the problem. In fact, he is a dark horse candidate for MVP this year. The problem is that we are still a young developing team with more talent that we know what to do with. That's a good problem to have, especially when you have one of the best coaches and GMs in the league.

R-E-L-A-X

[Tr1boy]

No. Just no.

It's always better to try to make more talent work, than to trade talent for less talent, just because the pieces seemingly would fit better.

Besides, maybe its Hayward's fault that he isn't playing well with Irving, not Irving's? Hayward has never played with a player like Irving. Why is it Irving's fault?

Tatum plays well (sometimes) with Irving. Horford plays well with Irving. Smart is playing the best basketball of his career with Irving. Morris plays well with Irving.

Brown played well with Irving last year, but has struggled with his new role this year.

Honestly, I love Rozier, but if he isn't fitting in well with Irving, you side with the superstar, not the potentially solid starter.

So the three that seemingly aren't playing well are:
Rozier - Who cares?
Hayward - Injury and hasn't played with a guy like Irving before
Brown - still developing and adjusting

What's the problem? Why would anyone trade a superstar because the role players aren't playing well with him? Maybe we should get a guy who plays better with Irving, instead of the other way around. Keep upper talent (Irving, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Williams) and get guys that fit around them.

-Horford has been invisble this season

True about the rest.  And we dont know if Morris is playing his best due to Kyrie/contract year/offseason prep. Smart plays the same way regardless

Overall

Hayward, Brown, Rozier , Horford and to some extent Tatum all having down years

But suddenly last night most come alive??

Explain...

Brown and Tatum and came alive last night? Was I watching a different game? And what happened to Smart, Morris and Tatum? They all played worse with Kyrie out of the game.

Last night was more about the regular ups and downs every player has during a season than anything else.

Yes they played better...  not tenative with the ball

Brown attacked and played his game

Tatum looked more aggressive and his passing skills was on display

And you forgot to mention Hayward little performance...

[nickagneta]

No. Just no.

It's always better to try to make more talent work, than to trade talent for less talent, just because the pieces seemingly would fit better.

Besides, maybe its Hayward's fault that he isn't playing well with Irving, not Irving's? Hayward has never played with a player like Irving. Why is it Irving's fault?

Tatum plays well (sometimes) with Irving. Horford plays well with Irving. Smart is playing the best basketball of his career with Irving. Morris plays well with Irving.

Brown played well with Irving last year, but has struggled with his new role this year.

Honestly, I love Rozier, but if he isn't fitting in well with Irving, you side with the superstar, not the potentially solid starter.

So the three that seemingly aren't playing well are:
Rozier - Who cares?
Hayward - Injury and hasn't played with a guy like Irving before
Brown - still developing and adjusting

What's the problem? Why would anyone trade a superstar because the role players aren't playing well with him? Maybe we should get a guy who plays better with Irving, instead of the other way around. Keep upper talent (Irving, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Williams) and get guys that fit around them.

-Horford has been invisble this season

True about the rest.  And we dont know if Morris is playing his best due to Kyrie/contract year/offseason prep. Smart plays the same way regardless

Overall

Hayward, Brown, Rozier , Horford and to some extent Tatum all having down years

But suddenly last night most come alive??

Explain...

Brown and Tatum and came alive last night? Was I watching a different game? And what happened to Smart, Morris and Tatum? They all played worse with Kyrie out of the game.

Last night was more about the regular ups and downs every player has during a season than anything else.

Yes they played better...  not tenative with the ball

Brown attacked and played his game

Tatum looked more aggressive and his passing skills was on display

And you forgot to mention Hayward little performance...

Now you are just making stuff up. Brown barely shot the ball. What he have, like 6 shots? And he has been more aggressive for weeks while playing with Kyrie. He scored 30 last game with Kyrie.

Tatum did not play well. His shot was off. He forced a couple of drives and was awful defensively.

Neither had a game that came alive due to Kyrie's absence

[Tr1boy]

No. Just no.

It's always better to try to make more talent work, than to trade talent for less talent, just because the pieces seemingly would fit better.

Besides, maybe its Hayward's fault that he isn't playing well with Irving, not Irving's? Hayward has never played with a player like Irving. Why is it Irving's fault?

Tatum plays well (sometimes) with Irving. Horford plays well with Irving. Smart is playing the best basketball of his career with Irving. Morris plays well with Irving.

Brown played well with Irving last year, but has struggled with his new role this year.

Honestly, I love Rozier, but if he isn't fitting in well with Irving, you side with the superstar, not the potentially solid starter.

So the three that seemingly aren't playing well are:
Rozier - Who cares?
Hayward - Injury and hasn't played with a guy like Irving before
Brown - still developing and adjusting

What's the problem? Why would anyone trade a superstar because the role players aren't playing well with him? Maybe we should get a guy who plays better with Irving, instead of the other way around. Keep upper talent (Irving, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Williams) and get guys that fit around them.

-Horford has been invisble this season

True about the rest.  And we dont know if Morris is playing his best due to Kyrie/contract year/offseason prep. Smart plays the same way regardless

Overall

Hayward, Brown, Rozier , Horford and to some extent Tatum all having down years

But suddenly last night most come alive??

Explain...

Brown and Tatum and came alive last night? Was I watching a different game? And what happened to Smart, Morris and Tatum? They all played worse with Kyrie out of the game.

Last night was more about the regular ups and downs every player has during a season than anything else.

Yes they played better...  not tenative with the ball

Brown attacked and played his game

Tatum looked more aggressive and his passing skills was on display

And you forgot to mention Hayward little performance...

Now you are just making stuff up. Brown barely shot the ball. What he have, like 6 shots? And he has been more aggressive for weeks while playing with Kyrie. He scored 30 last game with Kyrie.

Tatum did not play well. His shot was off. He forced a couple of drives and was awful defensively.

Neither had a game that came alive due to Kyrie's absence

Ok you keep ignoring HAYWARD

Whatever

Also you tell me...what is the difference between Brown starting without Kyrie and Brown coming off the bench with Kyrie starting

Tatum starting without Kyrie. Rozier starting without Kyrie

Hayward play without Kyrie

You think out of nowhere Brown and Rozier play went down the toilet this season? They are not 1st or 2nd year players

Overall the team synergy is better without 2018-2019 Kyrie. Kyrie is a hot dog from 3rd quarter until end of games ....always wanting to control the ball/get off his first when possible....even against double teams

If you are a Kyrie can do no wrong/he has a ring so everyone else shut up crowd (same case with Rondo when he was here)... then you arent seeing that the overall team dynamics is off with him in charge

[Tr1boy]

Again iam not blaming Irving

Lets say this team had Hield and Isaac instead of Tatum, Brown.... and no Hayward but younger Korver, Louis Williams ... argument sake

So lineup is

Williams
Horford
Isaac
Hield
Irving

Korver
Williams
Smart

This is a tailored made lineup for someone like Irving.   Irving can ball hog all he wants while the other players stick to their roles/dont need the ball in their hands to excel

Ainge in some ways is at fault for not anticipating egos/game styles clashing. He is also greedy/scared if Irving is injured or walk...he needs to keep this unit together (including Rozier)

Irving if he can stay healthy and as top alpha hog means Rozier is not going to return. Brown doesnt look happy.... so he likely wont resign

So imo its either keep the "future" core in tact or keep Irving and build lineip to tailor his game

My preference is last seasons future core plus Hayward and Morris... I feel confident such unit can go far

[DefenseWinsChamps]

No. Just no.

It's always better to try to make more talent work, than to trade talent for less talent, just because the pieces seemingly would fit better.

Besides, maybe its Hayward's fault that he isn't playing well with Irving, not Irving's? Hayward has never played with a player like Irving. Why is it Irving's fault?

Tatum plays well (sometimes) with Irving. Horford plays well with Irving. Smart is playing the best basketball of his career with Irving. Morris plays well with Irving.

Brown played well with Irving last year, but has struggled with his new role this year.

Honestly, I love Rozier, but if he isn't fitting in well with Irving, you side with the superstar, not the potentially solid starter.

So the three that seemingly aren't playing well are:
Rozier - Who cares?
Hayward - Injury and hasn't played with a guy like Irving before
Brown - still developing and adjusting

What's the problem? Why would anyone trade a superstar because the role players aren't playing well with him? Maybe we should get a guy who plays better with Irving, instead of the other way around. Keep upper talent (Irving, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Williams) and get guys that fit around them.

-Horford has been invisble this season

True about the rest.  And we dont know if Morris is playing his best due to Kyrie/contract year/offseason prep. Smart plays the same way regardless

Overall

Hayward, Brown, Rozier , Horford and to some extent Tatum all having down years

But suddenly last night most come alive??

Explain...

Hayward already had a 30 point game when Irving was playing this year. Hayward stepped up in a big way to fill the void left by Irving -- that's what he should do. That's not an indictment against Irving.

Tatum and Brown did not have a great game. In fact, Brown's best game this year was last game against the Spurs when Irving was playing. Tatum's best games this year have all come when Irving was playing, largely because Tatum is not good enough yet to have the offense all fall on him.

Rozier played pretty well last night and largely did what he should do given more opportunity and usage. But that isn't an indictment against Irving. That's praise for a system and a player that had the next-man-up mentality.

The frustration of mediocre performance against the backdrop of lofty expectations have clouded people's judgement to the point where they are misdiagnosing the problems, and creating false narratives that suit alternative facts.

Irving is not the problem. In fact, he is a dark horse candidate for MVP this year. The problem is that we are still a young developing team with more talent that we know what to do with. That's a good problem to have, especially when you have one of the best coaches and GMs in the league.

R-E-L-A-X

Bump. Triboy16f, please respond.

[Tr1boy]

No. Just no.

It's always better to try to make more talent work, than to trade talent for less talent, just because the pieces seemingly would fit better.

Besides, maybe its Hayward's fault that he isn't playing well with Irving, not Irving's? Hayward has never played with a player like Irving. Why is it Irving's fault?

Tatum plays well (sometimes) with Irving. Horford plays well with Irving. Smart is playing the best basketball of his career with Irving. Morris plays well with Irving.

Brown played well with Irving last year, but has struggled with his new role this year.

Honestly, I love Rozier, but if he isn't fitting in well with Irving, you side with the superstar, not the potentially solid starter.

So the three that seemingly aren't playing well are:
Rozier - Who cares?
Hayward - Injury and hasn't played with a guy like Irving before
Brown - still developing and adjusting

What's the problem? Why would anyone trade a superstar because the role players aren't playing well with him? Maybe we should get a guy who plays better with Irving, instead of the other way around. Keep upper talent (Irving, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Williams) and get guys that fit around them.

-Horford has been invisble this season

True about the rest.  And we dont know if Morris is playing his best due to Kyrie/contract year/offseason prep. Smart plays the same way regardless

Overall

Hayward, Brown, Rozier , Horford and to some extent Tatum all having down years

But suddenly last night most come alive??

Explain...

Hayward already had a 30 point game when Irving was playing this year. Hayward stepped up in a big way to fill the void left by Irving -- that's what he should do. That's not an indictment against Irving.

Tatum and Brown did not have a great game. In fact, Brown's best game this year was last game against the Spurs when Irving was playing. Tatum's best games this year have all come when Irving was playing, largely because Tatum is not good enough yet to have the offense all fall on him.

Rozier played pretty well last night and largely did what he should do given more opportunity and usage. But that isn't an indictment against Irving. That's praise for a system and a player that had the next-man-up mentality.

The frustration of mediocre performance against the backdrop of lofty expectations have clouded people's judgement to the point where they are misdiagnosing the problems, and creating false narratives that suit alternative facts.

Irving is not the problem. In fact, he is a dark horse candidate for MVP this year. The problem is that we are still a young developing team with more talent that we know what to do with. That's a good problem to have, especially when you have one of the best coaches and GMs in the league.

R-E-L-A-X

Bump. Triboy16f, please respond.

One 30 point game

One good game vs Spurs

Tatum looks more selfish this season maybe bc the extra team passing doesnt exist

Overall all are inconsistent

Do you not watch games? Ball sticks to Irvings hand in the 2nd half

Those other guys become spot up shooters/slashers.  In limited offensive roles, their defensive energy lowers

You cant tell me the team didnt look much more engaged 2nd half of last season. On both ends.... the extra team passing was a thing of beauty

[Chief Macho]

I don't think you could get enough value.  Ive seen enough of Irving where I don't think he's a top of the line NBA winning player.  He isn't  Durant or Lebron.  I like the way Terry runs the team more.   But,  they can't trade him now.

[Tr1boy]

I don't think you could get enough value.  Ive seen enough of Irving where I don't think he's a top of the line NBA winning player.  He isn't  Durant or Lebron.  I like the way Terry runs the team more.   But,  they can't trade him now.

Agreed

And also if the team had a healthy Hayward last season...it would have went to the finals

It would of had 2x better chance than Cavs did last season in the finals too

[Roy H.]

I don't think you could get enough value.  Ive seen enough of Irving where I don't think he's a top of the line NBA winning player.  He isn't  Durant or Lebron.  I like the way Terry runs the team more.   But,  they can't trade him now.

Can you define “top of the line NBA winning player”?

How many guys fit that description?

Kyrie has some flaws. He also has some amazing gifts. He’s never going to be a top five player, but he may be the star that attracts that top five guy here.

If you’re Anthony Davis, are you more interested in playing alongside Kyrie or Rozier?

[nickagneta]

No. Just no.

It's always better to try to make more talent work, than to trade talent for less talent, just because the pieces seemingly would fit better.

Besides, maybe its Hayward's fault that he isn't playing well with Irving, not Irving's? Hayward has never played with a player like Irving. Why is it Irving's fault?

Tatum plays well (sometimes) with Irving. Horford plays well with Irving. Smart is playing the best basketball of his career with Irving. Morris plays well with Irving.

Brown played well with Irving last year, but has struggled with his new role this year.

Honestly, I love Rozier, but if he isn't fitting in well with Irving, you side with the superstar, not the potentially solid starter.

So the three that seemingly aren't playing well are:
Rozier - Who cares?
Hayward - Injury and hasn't played with a guy like Irving before
Brown - still developing and adjusting

What's the problem? Why would anyone trade a superstar because the role players aren't playing well with him? Maybe we should get a guy who plays better with Irving, instead of the other way around. Keep upper talent (Irving, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Williams) and get guys that fit around them.

-Horford has been invisble this season

True about the rest.  And we dont know if Morris is playing his best due to Kyrie/contract year/offseason prep. Smart plays the same way regardless

Overall

Hayward, Brown, Rozier , Horford and to some extent Tatum all having down years

But suddenly last night most come alive??

Explain...

Hayward already had a 30 point game when Irving was playing this year. Hayward stepped up in a big way to fill the void left by Irving -- that's what he should do. That's not an indictment against Irving.

Tatum and Brown did not have a great game. In fact, Brown's best game this year was last game against the Spurs when Irving was playing. Tatum's best games this year have all come when Irving was playing, largely because Tatum is not good enough yet to have the offense all fall on him.

Rozier played pretty well last night and largely did what he should do given more opportunity and usage. But that isn't an indictment against Irving. That's praise for a system and a player that had the next-man-up mentality.

The frustration of mediocre performance against the backdrop of lofty expectations have clouded people's judgement to the point where they are misdiagnosing the problems, and creating false narratives that suit alternative facts.

Irving is not the problem. In fact, he is a dark horse candidate for MVP this year. The problem is that we are still a young developing team with more talent that we know what to do with. That's a good problem to have, especially when you have one of the best coaches and GMs in the league.

R-E-L-A-X

Bump. Triboy16f, please respond.

One 30 point game

One good game vs Spurs

Tatum looks more selfish this season maybe bc the extra team passing doesnt exist

Overall all are inconsistent

Do you not watch games? Ball sticks to Irvings hand in the 2nd half

Those other guys become spot up shooters/slashers.  In limited offensive roles, their defensive energy lowers

You cant tell me the team didnt look much more engaged 2nd half of last season. On both ends.... the extra team passing was a thing of beauty

Do you watch games because what you are claiming is just untrue? How many people have to come here and disprove everything you are saying before you stop using the word synergy?

Facts are the team is making much more passes over the last month. IT WAS A STAT SHOWN ON THE BOSTON BROADCAST LAST NIGHT. Over 300 passes a game. 3.5 passes per possession. That is an incredibly high number. Kyrie has been around for the entire month. In that month he had by far the most assists and highest assist percentage on the team. He leads the league in secondary assists

Brown and Tatum did not have "awakened" games last night. These are all proven through stats and watching games. Why are you continuing to argue points that just are not true in any way.

[satch]

Don't think it will happen put it needs to be on the table.

[Sophomore]

I don't think you could get enough value.  Ive seen enough of Irving where I don't think he's a top of the line NBA winning player.  He isn't  Durant or Lebron.  I like the way Terry runs the team more.   But,  they can't trade him now.

Can you define “top of the line NBA winning player”?

How many guys fit that description?

Kyrie has some flaws. He also has some amazing gifts. He’s never going to be a top five player, but he may be the star that attracts that top five guy here.

If you’re Anthony Davis, are you more interested in playing alongside Kyrie or Rozier?

That’s a great question, Roy.

Before pegging Kyrie as not a winning player, watch the 2016 Finals again. NBA tv just rebroadcast game 7. LeBron had an off game. Kyrie made play after play to bring them home. Rewatch the Toronto game from earlier this season when he just hit that gear where nobody is going to stop him.

No question in my mind I’d rather have Kyrie at point in a big game seven than Rozier.