How much longer do we need to give hayward?

[GreenWarrior]

well that's all that matters.

maybe he can print that stat on paper, roll it up and throw it at the opponents to let 'em know he's on the floor.

[Vermont Green]

There is not much we can do here.  Hayward suffered a gruesome injury.  That isn't Celtics managements's fault or Hayward's fault.  In terms of recovery, how can anyone judge that.  It would not surprise me if he did not fully recover the entire season.  Who knows but what can we do (or stop doing)?  What exactly can we stop giving Hayward?  Trading him makes no sense.  He is coming off the bench already.

All we can do is continue to play him when it best suites the team.  I think we are doing that.  I don't think he is being "given" anything.  He is only playing 26 minutes/gm, about the same as Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown.  This is the least he has played since his rookie season (about 9 min less than the last 3 seasons in Utah.)

[coco]

well that's all that matters.

maybe he can print that stat on paper, roll it up and throw it at the opponents to let 'em know he's on the floor.

Good one!!!  LOL

[ozgod]

Hayward isn't the problem.

We have no interior defense until Baynes and Williams come back or Horford's knees get batter.

Thing is if Hayward can just be that reliable scoring presence of the second unit then we will games easily.. Is it really to much to ask for 15 to 20 points from a player who torched the Warriors and the Clippiers in the 2017 playoffs?

Yes Hayward is part of the problem..we need his offense but all he wants is just collect his paycheck. The defense will always be i  trouble for now until Baynes comes back.

How do we know that he just wants to cruise and play Fortnite? Has there been any indication of this? He’s looked committed in every game he played other than the last one? If he just wanted to collect his paycheck why spend all those grueling hours rehabbing his injury to get back on the court? He could have made them put him on ice for 2 years like they did Embiid,instead of trying to get himself back on court after 2 surgeries, look like a shadow of his former self and wear all the criticism from people who want to make him the scapegoat for ruining the team this year. Why go through all that if he wanted to just pick up his paycheck?

(Incidentally in hindsight it might have been better to put him on ice for another year like the Sixers love doing with their players. Give him another year to recover under the radar and away from the glare of media and fan criticism and have him back in 2019 100% physically and mentally. But what is done is done.)

This is the part that confuses me about the Hayward criticism. Clearly he’s playing far below his historical performance, his shot is inconsistent, his lift isn’t there, he lacks confidence, he looks to have lost a step in lateral quickness and he’s afraid to dunk on people. Those are all physical things we can see and criticize and rightfully so. But I’m not sure he just wants to go collect his paycheck and not improve. I don’t see that in his behavior. I see a guy who came back from a bad injury, doesn’t know how he fits, doesn’t want to step on toes, can’t do what he used to the way he wants to, is not getting it done and is frustrated and demoralized as a result.

End of day we demand results and if his presence in the team isn’t providing the desired result then move him if we can at the appropriate time and with the appropriate package. He will be an asset that didn’t work out, that happens all the time. But I suspect if we do so it won’t be due to lack of trying on his part.

[RJ87]

Hayward isn't the problem.

We have no interior defense until Baynes and Williams come back or Horford's knees get batter.

Thing is if Hayward can just be that reliable scoring presence of the second unit then we will games easily.. Is it really to much to ask for 15 to 20 points from a player who torched the Warriors and the Clippiers in the 2017 playoffs?

Yes Hayward is part of the problem..we need his offense but all he wants is just collect his paycheck. The defense will always be i  trouble for now until Baynes comes back.

How do we know that he just wants to cruise and play Fortnite? Has there been any indication of this? He’s looked committed in every game he played other than the last one? If he just wanted to collect his paycheck why spend all those grueling hours rehabbing his injury to get back on the court? He could have made them put him on ice for 2 years like they did Embiid,instead of trying to get himself back on court after 2 surgeries, look like a shadow of his former self and wear all the criticism from people who want to make him the scapegoat for ruining the team this year. Why go through all that if he wanted to just pick up his paycheck?

(Incidentally in hindsight it might have been better to put him on ice for another year like the Sixers love doing with their players. Give him another year to recover under the radar and away from the glare of media and fan criticism and have him back in 2019 100% physically and mentally. But what is done is done.)

This is the part that confuses me about the Hayward criticism. Clearly he’s playing far below his historical performance, his shot is inconsistent, his lift isn’t there, he lacks confidence, he looks to have lost a step in lateral quickness and he’s afraid to dunk on people. Those are all physical things we can see and criticize and rightfully so. But I’m not sure he just wants to go collect his paycheck and not improve. I don’t see that in his behavior. I see a guy who came back from a bad injury, doesn’t know how he fits, doesn’t want to step on toes, can’t do what he used to the way he wants to, is not getting it done and is frustrated and demoralized as a result.

End of day we demand results and if his presence in the team isn’t providing the desired result then move him if we can at the appropriate time and with the appropriate package. He will be an asset that didn’t work out, that happens all the time. But I suspect if we do so it won’t be due to lack of trying on his part.

It's sad that some fans are acting so entitled and unreasonable with Hayward. There's literally been no indication that he approached his rehab with anything less than full commitment or hasn't continued to work diligently.

His foot was backwards. His career could've ended. If people don't understand that there's a physical and mental toll that type of injury takes, then they're just obtuse.

[csfansince60s]

Hayward had 30/9/8 vs the Wolves AFTER a rough practice where Smart et al banged him around and got in his face.

He was mad and consequently motivated and therefore played well.

According to Marcus Morris, Smart got into a scuffle with Hayward in a recent practice and, as reported by Tom Westerholm of MassLive.com.

Smart seemed to unleash the beast in Hayward, and most of his teammates walked away knowing that a big performance was forthcoming for Hayward.

The Celtics were embroiled in one of their toughest practices of the season, and they were poking and prodding at Hayward — “fouling him and s—” as Marcus Morris put it.

“He just got red at one point,” Morris said. “He was really upset. He was going really hard.”

The catalyst (predictably) was Marcus Smart, according to Morris. The Celtics’ chief instigator got tangled up with Hayward, and Hayward was quietly boiling.

From there, Hayward seemed to channel his frustration in a positive way. According to Westerholm, he began to give Brad Stevens things the coach hasn’t seen yet, not in Boston, anyway.

The results were eye-opening. Brad Stevens said the practice let him know Hayward had a big performance was coming. Kyrie Irving said he knew Hayward had “that ticker inside him.” Morris said Hayward started getting out in transition and dunking in ways the Celtics had yet to see since he joined the team.

On the inside, Morris was probably chuckling to himself.

“Any time Smartie gets tangled up with somebody, it’s good,” Morris said smiling.

“I’ve been waiting to see that side of (Hayward) for a little bit now.”

So the Celtics knew a big performance was coming at some point.

https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2018/12/02/a-scuffle-with-marcus-smart-may-have-led-to-gordon-haywards-outburst/

Maybe the Marci need to bang the crap out of him more often.

It’s all in his head...he has admitted it. That does not fly well with many, myself included.

[SHAQATTACK]

Hayward had 30/9/8 vs the Wolves AFTER a rough practice where Smart et al banged him around and got in his face.

He was mad and consequently motivated and therefore played well.

According to Marcus Morris, Smart got into a scuffle with Hayward in a recent practice and, as reported by Tom Westerholm of MassLive.com.

Smart seemed to unleash the beast in Hayward, and most of his teammates walked away knowing that a big performance was forthcoming for Hayward.

The Celtics were embroiled in one of their toughest practices of the season, and they were poking and prodding at Hayward — “fouling him and s—” as Marcus Morris put it.

“He just got red at one point,” Morris said. “He was really upset. He was going really hard.”

The catalyst (predictably) was Marcus Smart, according to Morris. The Celtics’ chief instigator got tangled up with Hayward, and Hayward was quietly boiling.

From there, Hayward seemed to channel his frustration in a positive way. According to Westerholm, he began to give Brad Stevens things the coach hasn’t seen yet, not in Boston, anyway.

The results were eye-opening. Brad Stevens said the practice let him know Hayward had a big performance was coming. Kyrie Irving said he knew Hayward had “that ticker inside him.” Morris said Hayward started getting out in transition and dunking in ways the Celtics had yet to see since he joined the team.

On the inside, Morris was probably chuckling to himself.

“Any time Smartie gets tangled up with somebody, it’s good,” Morris said smiling.

“I’ve been waiting to see that side of (Hayward) for a little bit now.”

So the Celtics knew a big performance was coming at some point.

https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2018/12/02/a-scuffle-with-marcus-smart-may-have-led-to-gordon-haywards-outburst/

Maybe the Marci need to bang the crap out of him more often.

It’s all in his head...he has admitted it. That does not fly well with many, myself included.

he needs to do something to wake up.  he can't stand around and watch while on the court of an NBA game.   Stevens should have benched him and gave him a good chewing out .  Pop would not have stood for that pathetic effort.  He d been all in his face .

[PhoSita]

So if hayward's struggles are mental to any significant extent, does that make them unjustified or intentional or a sign of some sort of character flaw?

Why are struggles due to trauma less valid than struggles due to, say, tendonitis?

[Chris22]

So if hayward's struggles are mental to any significant extent, does that make them unjustified or intentional or a sign of some sort of character flaw?

Why are struggles due to trauma less valid than struggles due to, say, tendonitis?

Because all the posters here are perfect.

[10610786d]

So if hayward's struggles are mental to any significant extent, does that make them unjustified or intentional or a sign of some sort of character flaw?

Why are struggles due to trauma less valid than struggles due to, say, tendonitis?

I'm quite cautiously optimistic, based on David Locke's take on Hayward on his "Locked On" podcast when Hayward was a free agent (a couple years back), Locked On Celtics, Jackie McMullan's take on the Lowe Post podcast a few weeks back, and the games I've been able to watch.

It's not particularly analytical, but a brief summary of the Locke podcast is basically that Hayward works harder than anyone else. He's worked hard to add new bits to his game every off season - he wants to be a star, and willed himself to beating expectations and becoming a player of his stature through hard work.

So far, physically, Hayward has appeared to be on track, based on Locked On Celtics, the media, and my own viewings of Celtics games. A step slow, but no significant red flags physically.

In terms of timeline, Jackie Mac spoke to players in the league, who told her to expect March 2019 at least as the "real return date" for Hayward physically and mentally.

Based on the above, my gut feeling/hope is that Hayward will slowly break out in the coming months.

The recent games also seem to confirm the above, having taken a step back from being p---ed off at the losses - he'll have flashes, and the flashes will come more and more frequent. In the Grizz win, he looked quite agile and healthy - this makes sense the Grizz are a notoriously slow and deliberate team, and adjusting to the pace of the NBA is the one of the most difficult things for players to get used to by all accounts. I wasn't able to watch the Spurs and Rockets games - but the Spurs are great at picking on weakest links, while the Rockets are a fast paced team.

[Erik]

Simple: we’re going to give him 2.5 more years. He’s untouchable: either he returns to form and we want him, or he continues to play like garbage and no one else will want him. For better or for worse, he’s here for at least 2.5 more years.

[celtics4ever33]

Despite scoring 0 points Hayward's net rating was still +5.2 versus SA. He's a good basketball player that helps the team both offensively and defensively even when he's not scoring.

https://on.nba.com/2R5rV4Y

Im tired of the last resorts being the  net rating crap. Enough of that. You can do that with Rozier too, he had a streak where he was a net rating in like 8 games in a row. Who cares about that, Hayward sucks , stop making excuses for his horrid play.

[GetLucky]

So if hayward's struggles are mental to any significant extent, does that make them unjustified or intentional or a sign of some sort of character flaw?

Why are struggles due to trauma less valid than struggles due to, say, tendonitis?

I'm quite cautiously optimistic, based on David Locke's take on Hayward on his "Locked On" podcast when Hayward was a free agent (a couple years back), Locked On Celtics, Jackie McMullan's take on the Lowe Post podcast a few weeks back, and the games I've been able to watch.

It's not particularly analytical, but a brief summary of the Locke podcast is basically that Hayward works harder than anyone else. He's worked hard to add new bits to his game every off season - he wants to be a star, and willed himself to beating expectations and becoming a player of his stature through hard work.

So far, physically, Hayward has appeared to be on track, based on Locked On Celtics, the media, and my own viewings of Celtics games. A step slow, but no significant red flags physically.

In terms of timeline, Jackie Mac spoke to players in the league, who told her to expect March 2019 at least as the "real return date" for Hayward physically and mentally.

Based on the above, my gut feeling/hope is that Hayward will slowly break out in the coming months.

The recent games also seem to confirm the above, having taken a step back from being p---ed off at the losses - he'll have flashes, and the flashes will come more and more frequent. In the Grizz win, he looked quite agile and healthy - this makes sense the Grizz are a notoriously slow and deliberate team, and adjusting to the pace of the NBA is the one of the most difficult things for players to get used to by all accounts. I wasn't able to watch the Spurs and Rockets games - but the Spurs are great at picking on weakest links, while the Rockets are a fast paced team.

I think people forget that it took Paul George almost two years to recover from his broken leg. He came back a full year later for the last few games of the season and looked entirely mediocre. I expect Hayward to be back by next year, and he will hopefully be back by the playoffs of this year. Until then, though, he has to take his lumps. It sucks now, but it will make his poster dunks all that much sweeter later. (And, yes, Hayward could really get up before. He dunked more than George or Butler the year before he signed with the Celtics. Check Youtube if you don't believe me. He had some really impressive dunks over big men while in Utah.)

[celtics4ever33]

So if hayward's struggles are mental to any significant extent, does that make them unjustified or intentional or a sign of some sort of character flaw?

Why are struggles due to trauma less valid than struggles due to, say, tendonitis?

I'm quite cautiously optimistic, based on David Locke's take on Hayward on his "Locked On" podcast when Hayward was a free agent (a couple years back), Locked On Celtics, Jackie McMullan's take on the Lowe Post podcast a few weeks back, and the games I've been able to watch.

It's not particularly analytical, but a brief summary of the Locke podcast is basically that Hayward works harder than anyone else. He's worked hard to add new bits to his game every off season - he wants to be a star, and willed himself to beating expectations and becoming a player of his stature through hard work.

So far, physically, Hayward has appeared to be on track, based on Locked On Celtics, the media, and my own viewings of Celtics games. A step slow, but no significant red flags physically.

In terms of timeline, Jackie Mac spoke to players in the league, who told her to expect March 2019 at least as the "real return date" for Hayward physically and mentally.

Based on the above, my gut feeling/hope is that Hayward will slowly break out in the coming months.

The recent games also seem to confirm the above, having taken a step back from being p---ed off at the losses - he'll have flashes, and the flashes will come more and more frequent. In the Grizz win, he looked quite agile and healthy - this makes sense the Grizz are a notoriously slow and deliberate team, and adjusting to the pace of the NBA is the one of the most difficult things for players to get used to by all accounts. I wasn't able to watch the Spurs and Rockets games - but the Spurs are great at picking on weakest links, while the Rockets are a fast paced team.

I think people forget that it took Paul George almost two years to recover from his broken leg. He came back a full year later for the last few games of the season and looked entirely mediocre. I expect Hayward to be back by next year, and he will hopefully be back by the playoffs of this year. Until then, though, he has to take his lumps. It sucks now, but it will make his poster dunks all that much sweeter later. (And, yes, Hayward could really get up before. He dunked more than George or Butler the year before he signed with the Celtics. Check Youtube if you don't believe me. He had some really impressive dunks over big men while in Utah.)

horrible comparison. First, Paul George played about 13 minutes a game. You cannot make a factual statement that this is the reason why Hayward sucks. He looks horrible and is playing regular NBA minutes.

Paul George came back the last few games  season for the Pacers and played 14 minutes a game trying to get some game play in.

Who knows what Paul's preparation was.

Hayward came in the start and ready to go, and has stunk it up.

NVM him never being better than George anyway/

[Chris22]

We won eight games in a row with Hayward in the lineup, and then Baynes went down, and now we are rather ordinary.

Our problem is interior defense, not Hayward, and that problem won't be solved until Baynes comes back or Williams gets well.

If I were Danny, I would be looking for a strong center. We are getting killed inside.