How much longer do we need to give hayward?

[Birdman]

Dude had a horrible nasty injury..lucky to be walking let alone playing basketball..going take time to get into NBA shape

[RJ87]

Dude had a horrible nasty injury..lucky to be walking let alone playing basketball..going take time to get into NBA shape

Pretty much. The entitlement of some fans is bewildering. The guy's foot was literally the wrong way and then he had an unexpected procedure in the final phase of his rehab before returning to the court. There's a physical aspect and a mental aspect. No one should just expect him to be back to 100% right away.

[JSD]

He won’t be right until next year at the earliest and possibly never again.


Also, he cannot be traded with that contract. That injury altered the history of the league. Celtics would have been in the Finals and possibly won the title last year had that not taken place. Instead they are stuck with  getting little out of a cap prohibiting max contract. Really a shame. It will be part of the story of how the Lakers eventually overtake the Celtics in the title count.

[Rondo9]

He won’t be right until next year at the earliest and possibly never again.


Also, he cannot be traded with that contract. That injury altered the history of the league. Celtics would have been in the Finals and possibly won the title last year had that not taken place. Instead they are stuck with  getting little out of a cap prohibiting max contract. Really a shame. It will be part of the story of how the Lakers eventually overtake the Celtics in the title count.

A little bit pessimistic?

[PhoSita]

He won’t be right until next year at the earliest and possibly never again.


Also, he cannot be traded with that contract. That injury altered the history of the league. Celtics would have been in the Finals and possibly won the title last year had that not taken place. Instead they are stuck with  getting little out of a cap prohibiting max contract. Really a shame. It will be part of the story of how the Lakers eventually overtake the Celtics in the title count.

A little bit pessimistic?

I mean, if the Lakers trade for AD and then sign Kawhi this summer, while the Celts struggle to get this roster to live up to its potential, the scenario JSD describes doesn't seem so far fetched.

[Neurotic Guy]

He won’t be right until next year at the earliest and possibly never again.


Also, he cannot be traded with that contract. That injury altered the history of the league. Celtics would have been in the Finals and possibly won the title last year had that not taken place. Instead they are stuck with  getting little out of a cap prohibiting max contract. Really a shame. It will be part of the story of how the Lakers eventually overtake the Celtics in the title count.

A little bit pessimistic?

Very pessimistic but the nightmare scenario may be coming true with Lakers getting Lebron and being better than expected, and C’s being worse than expected.    Lakers are sure to add another star while C’s may lose their expected #2 star. 

But I’m not convinced that GH is done.  I’ll target the end of March.

If GH can’t do it, at least Cs can try trade that expiring salary after next season.

[Rondo9]

He won’t be right until next year at the earliest and possibly never again.


Also, he cannot be traded with that contract. That injury altered the history of the league. Celtics would have been in the Finals and possibly won the title last year had that not taken place. Instead they are stuck with  getting little out of a cap prohibiting max contract. Really a shame. It will be part of the story of how the Lakers eventually overtake the Celtics in the title count.

A little bit pessimistic?

Very pessimistic but the nightmare scenario may be coming true with Lakers getting Lebron and being better than expected, and C’s being worse than expected.    Lakers are sure to add another star while C’s may lose their expected #2 star. 

But I’m not convinced that GH is done.  I’ll target the end of March.

If GH can’t do it, at least Cs can try trade that expiring salary after next season.

No it’s not, people need to calm down and remain patient.

[Neurotic Guy]

Might be worth pointing out that with all the disappointment and negativity surrounding Hayward's season, he is averaging 10/5/3 in 26 minutes, shooting 40%/32%/88%.

Not close to the Hayward we were all hoping for, but these are pretty average NBA rotation player numbers.  In other words, in his first 3 months back from a horrific injury, Hayward is playing at an NBA-capable level.  Maybe that's not such a bad thing, given both the injury itself and body deterioration from lack of conditioning.  Not sure these stats are meaningful in a positive way, but to me they actually put it into a little perspective.  If Gordon is still at 10/5/3 and shooting well below career percentages in May, my concern will rise.  But... it's possible he needs the full season to get it going. 

[PhoSita]

I'd point out as well that Hayward's rebound, steal, block, and assist rate are all pretty much in line with his  career averages, or better.

The biggest differences are his shooting percentages, usage rate, and free throw rate.

He's not SO far off his career averages of 47.7% from two and 36.5% from three. 

In terms of his shooting percentages, the one real glaring issues is that his last season in Utah he shot almost 70% within 3 feet of the basket, and those shots made up almost a quarter of his attempts. 

So far this year, those inside attempts are down to a fifth of his shots, and he's hitting only 53.6% of them, which is quite poor for a player of his size.


But he's a career 63% finisher within 3 feet.  If he can regain some of that interior finishing, while pushing his shooting percentages closer to his career averages, that will probably go hand in hand with improved confidence taking more shots and attacking the basket a bit.


Hayward attempted 16.5 field goals per 36 his last season in Utah, consisting of 5.4 threes and 11.2 twos.  He also attempted 6.1 free throws per 36.

That usage rate of 27.6% is probably higher than he'll ever get in Boston.  But if he could get back to something like 14 field goal attempts per 36, while getting to his career averages in shooting and free throw rate, his box score line would look something like this:

16.1 pts - 6.2 reb - 4 ast on 43.5 / 36.5 / 82.2 shooting in 32 mpg.


I imagine some folks might still complain about that kind of production on a max contract, but if he has some big games in the playoffs, I suspect even those complaints would die down.

[celticsclay]

I'd point out as well that Hayward's rebound, steal, block, and assist rate are all pretty much in line with his  career averages, or better.

The biggest differences are his shooting percentages, usage rate, and free throw rate.

He's not SO far off his career averages of 47.7% from two and 36.5% from three. 

In terms of his shooting percentages, the one real glaring issues is that his last season in Utah he shot almost 70% within 3 feet of the basket, and those shots made up almost a quarter of his attempts. 

So far this year, those inside attempts are down to a fifth of his shots, and he's hitting only 53.6% of them, which is quite poor for a player of his size.


But he's a career 63% finisher within 3 feet.  If he can regain some of that interior finishing, while pushing his shooting percentages closer to his career averages, that will probably go hand in hand with improved confidence taking more shots and attacking the basket a bit.


Hayward attempted 16.5 field goals per 36 his last season in Utah, consisting of 5.4 threes and 11.2 twos.  He also attempted 6.1 free throws per 36.

That usage rate of 27.6% is probably higher than he'll ever get in Boston.  But if he could get back to something like 14 field goal attempts per 36, while getting to his career averages in shooting and free throw rate, his box score line would look something like this:

16.1 pts - 6.2 reb - 4 ast on 43.5 / 36.5 / 82.2 shooting in 32 mpg.


I imagine some folks might still complain about that kind of production on a max contract, but if he has some big games in the playoffs, I suspect even those complaints would die down.

incredible

[bopna]

The good news is the League will still probably see Hayward get back to being good again at some point...

The bad news is it may take him waaay too long to get there that by the time he does, he only has a year left in his Celtic deal in which case the Cs paid the man 3O million to be what Gerald Green is to Houston.

[cman88]

I'd point out as well that Hayward's rebound, steal, block, and assist rate are all pretty much in line with his  career averages, or better.

The biggest differences are his shooting percentages, usage rate, and free throw rate.

He's not SO far off his career averages of 47.7% from two and 36.5% from three. 

In terms of his shooting percentages, the one real glaring issues is that his last season in Utah he shot almost 70% within 3 feet of the basket, and those shots made up almost a quarter of his attempts. 

So far this year, those inside attempts are down to a fifth of his shots, and he's hitting only 53.6% of them, which is quite poor for a player of his size.


But he's a career 63% finisher within 3 feet.  If he can regain some of that interior finishing, while pushing his shooting percentages closer to his career averages, that will probably go hand in hand with improved confidence taking more shots and attacking the basket a bit.


Hayward attempted 16.5 field goals per 36 his last season in Utah, consisting of 5.4 threes and 11.2 twos.  He also attempted 6.1 free throws per 36.

That usage rate of 27.6% is probably higher than he'll ever get in Boston.  But if he could get back to something like 14 field goal attempts per 36, while getting to his career averages in shooting and free throw rate, his box score line would look something like this:

16.1 pts - 6.2 reb - 4 ast on 43.5 / 36.5 / 82.2 shooting in 32 mpg.


I imagine some folks might still complain about that kind of production on a max contract, but if he has some big games in the playoffs, I suspect even those complaints would die down.

But, thats the problem right there. He is taking 6 shots a game. Meanwhile guys like Rozier are taking more. I dont think your max player should be taking 6 shots a game. Especially when you are having trouble scoring off the bench.

I guess I would like to see hayward be more agressive with his shot. Kyrie told him that and he went out and had a 30 point game. but then after he went back to being passive and taking 5-6 shots.

[Wretch]

I'd point out as well that Hayward's rebound, steal, block, and assist rate are all pretty much in line with his  career averages, or better.

The biggest differences are his shooting percentages, usage rate, and free throw rate.

He's not SO far off his career averages of 47.7% from two and 36.5% from three. 

In terms of his shooting percentages, the one real glaring issues is that his last season in Utah he shot almost 70% within 3 feet of the basket, and those shots made up almost a quarter of his attempts. 

So far this year, those inside attempts are down to a fifth of his shots, and he's hitting only 53.6% of them, which is quite poor for a player of his size.


But he's a career 63% finisher within 3 feet.  If he can regain some of that interior finishing, while pushing his shooting percentages closer to his career averages, that will probably go hand in hand with improved confidence taking more shots and attacking the basket a bit.


Hayward attempted 16.5 field goals per 36 his last season in Utah, consisting of 5.4 threes and 11.2 twos.  He also attempted 6.1 free throws per 36.

That usage rate of 27.6% is probably higher than he'll ever get in Boston.  But if he could get back to something like 14 field goal attempts per 36, while getting to his career averages in shooting and free throw rate, his box score line would look something like this:

16.1 pts - 6.2 reb - 4 ast on 43.5 / 36.5 / 82.2 shooting in 32 mpg.


I imagine some folks might still complain about that kind of production on a max contract, but if he has some big games in the playoffs, I suspect even those complaints would die down.

But, thats the problem right there. He is taking 6 shots a game. Meanwhile guys like Rozier are taking more. I dont think your max player should be taking 6 shots a game. Especially when you are having trouble scoring off the bench.

I guess I would like to see hayward be more agressive with his shot. Kyrie told him that and he went out and had a 30 point game. but then after he went back to being passive and taking 5-6

I haven't been able to watch a lot of games but what I've observed is Rozier chucking early shot clock 3s or driving into the teeth of the defense and getting off a contested shot. It looks to me like Rozier is freezing out players to get his shots. On more than one occasion I've seen cutters or players waiting for the kick out being ignored.  A lot of the time the cutter or waiting shooter is Hayward.

It doesn't help that Rozier also has a net negative net rating this year. 

[GreenFaith1819]

As long as it takes.

He will prove well worth it.

[gouki88]

I'd point out as well that Hayward's rebound, steal, block, and assist rate are all pretty much in line with his  career averages, or better.

The biggest differences are his shooting percentages, usage rate, and free throw rate.

He's not SO far off his career averages of 47.7% from two and 36.5% from three. 

In terms of his shooting percentages, the one real glaring issues is that his last season in Utah he shot almost 70% within 3 feet of the basket, and those shots made up almost a quarter of his attempts. 

So far this year, those inside attempts are down to a fifth of his shots, and he's hitting only 53.6% of them, which is quite poor for a player of his size.


But he's a career 63% finisher within 3 feet.  If he can regain some of that interior finishing, while pushing his shooting percentages closer to his career averages, that will probably go hand in hand with improved confidence taking more shots and attacking the basket a bit.


Hayward attempted 16.5 field goals per 36 his last season in Utah, consisting of 5.4 threes and 11.2 twos.  He also attempted 6.1 free throws per 36.

That usage rate of 27.6% is probably higher than he'll ever get in Boston.  But if he could get back to something like 14 field goal attempts per 36, while getting to his career averages in shooting and free throw rate, his box score line would look something like this:

16.1 pts - 6.2 reb - 4 ast on 43.5 / 36.5 / 82.2 shooting in 32 mpg.


I imagine some folks might still complain about that kind of production on a max contract, but if he has some big games in the playoffs, I suspect even those complaints would die down.

But, thats the problem right there. He is taking 6 shots a game. Meanwhile guys like Rozier are taking more. I dont think your max player should be taking 6 shots a game. Especially when you are having trouble scoring off the bench.

I guess I would like to see hayward be more agressive with his shot. Kyrie told him that and he went out and had a 30 point game. but then after he went back to being passive and taking 5-6

I haven't been able to watch a lot of games but what I've observed is Rozier chucking early shot clock 3s or driving into the teeth of the defense and getting off a contested shot. It looks to me like Rozier is freezing out players to get his shots. On more than one occasion I've seen cutters or players waiting for the kick out being ignored.  A lot of the time the cutter or waiting shooter is Hayward.

It doesn't help that Rozier also has a net negative net rating this year.

Precisely. I've lost count how many times Hayward has made a well-timed cut only for Rozier to ignore it. The recent alley-oop Hayward caught and slammed home going backdoor was a good example of Rozier finally opening his eyes.