Washburn says players angry about playing time, unrest in locker room

[celtics4ever33]

I like Morris,  but I don't think he's worth not letting Brown keep developing in crucial minutes.   Trade him and Rozier.   Less talent on this team will be a good thing actually.

The problem is you want the wrong guys traded. You need to trade one of the 3, Brown Jaylen or Hayward. It is that simple. You cannot have these types of talented players on the team and not expect one to suffer , and the 2nd to possibly regress.

[Chief Macho]

I like Morris,  but I don't think he's worth not letting Brown keep developing in crucial minutes.   Trade him and Rozier.   Less talent on this team will be a good thing actually.

The problem is you want the wrong guys traded. You need to trade one of the 3, Brown Jaylen or Hayward. It is that simple. You cannot have these types of talented players on the team and not expect one to suffer , and the 2nd to possibly regress.

i see your point,  but how will they get fair value for those guys?  what deal would ainge actually do that would trade jaylen or tatum?    i just don't see ainge giving those dudes up for pennies.   he'd rather hold them and suck until a real deal is available.

i do disagree about rozier.  he's a full time player,  he won't get that here ever.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

Or the unhappy one is Rozier who wants more PT.

Overall he's not playing that much less but I guess when Kyrie went down he averaged 30+ minutes.

Yeah, I think the playoffs and the hype around Scary Terry got to him

yup he needs to be moved ASAp for many reasons

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

It's Rozier, and *maybe* Brown.

Rozier considers himself a 30 mpg player and he's only hit that mark twice in 18 games. Averaging 19 mpg over the last 4. Playing for a contract. Obviously unhappy.

Brown is the wildcard here. The team has elevated both Tatum and Hayward ahead of him, despite him having a year on Tatum and Hayward obviously not 100%. Over the last 5 games Tatum and Hayward are playing 30+ and Brown is averaging 24. I think he considers himself a rising All-Star but he's being treated like the 5th wheel behind Irving, Hayward, Tatum and Horford and on par with Rozier and Smart. That's 7 guys around or above his level with no end in sight.

I see the proper roster as:

The core: Irving, Hayward, Horford
The untouchable future star: Tatum
The blue collar guys: Smart, Morris, Wanamaker, Baynes, Theis
The cancer: Rozier
The assets: Brown, SAC19, other 1st rounders
Prospects: Williams
Sorta useful: Ojeleye
Expendable: Yabusele

agreed

must keep tatum. rozier needs to go. brown MAY be expendable. we will see what happens.

[footey]

It's Rozier, and *maybe* Brown.

Rozier considers himself a 30 mpg player and he's only hit that mark twice in 18 games. Averaging 19 mpg over the last 4. Playing for a contract. Obviously unhappy.

Brown is the wildcard here. The team has elevated both Tatum and Hayward ahead of him, despite him having a year on Tatum and Hayward obviously not 100%. Over the last 5 games Tatum and Hayward are playing 30+ and Brown is averaging 24. I think he considers himself a rising All-Star but he's being treated like the 5th wheel behind Irving, Hayward, Tatum and Horford and on par with Rozier and Smart. That's 7 guys around or above his level with no end in sight.

I see the proper roster as:

The core: Irving, Hayward, Horford
The untouchable future star: Tatum
The blue collar guys: Smart, Morris, Wanamaker, Baynes, Theis
The cancer: Rozier
The assets: Brown, SAC19, other 1st rounders
Prospects: Williams
Sorta useful: Ojeleye
Expendable: Yabusele

You’re not watching the same games as I am. Horford has been dreadful. Tatum mediocre; not playing like a future star, and certainly not untouchable. Calling Rozier a cancer without a single quote attributable to him is unfair and groundless. Turning 22 year old Brown after hitting a bad stretch as trade bait is moronic.

[byennie]

It's Rozier, and *maybe* Brown.

Rozier considers himself a 30 mpg player and he's only hit that mark twice in 18 games. Averaging 19 mpg over the last 4. Playing for a contract. Obviously unhappy.

Brown is the wildcard here. The team has elevated both Tatum and Hayward ahead of him, despite him having a year on Tatum and Hayward obviously not 100%. Over the last 5 games Tatum and Hayward are playing 30+ and Brown is averaging 24. I think he considers himself a rising All-Star but he's being treated like the 5th wheel behind Irving, Hayward, Tatum and Horford and on par with Rozier and Smart. That's 7 guys around or above his level with no end in sight.

I see the proper roster as:

The core: Irving, Hayward, Horford
The untouchable future star: Tatum
The blue collar guys: Smart, Morris, Wanamaker, Baynes, Theis
The cancer: Rozier
The assets: Brown, SAC19, other 1st rounders
Prospects: Williams
Sorta useful: Ojeleye
Expendable: Yabusele

You’re not watching the same games as I am. Horford has been dreadful. Tatum mediocre; not playing like a future star, and certainly not untouchable. Calling Rozier a cancer without a single quote attributable to him is unfair and groundless. Turning 22 year old Brown after hitting a bad stretch as trade bait is moronic.

Sure I am. Horford is still a core player and starter on a contender. Tatum is still a future star. These things haven’t changed in 18 games. He’s widely considered the #1 or #2 player in his draft class and is under contract for years. That’s untouchable unless you’re getting Anthony Davis, who we literally can’t trade for.

Rozier might not hold the blame but his situation is cancerous. Virtually everyone believes he’s unhappy and gone after this year. It’s not a personal judgement on Terry, maybe he has a right to be upset about the contract $$$ he could be losing.

As for Brown, I would want a king’s ransom for him, but my point is that you maximize the roster by being decisive sometimes. That’s why I call him an asset, not trade bait. He’s valuable and we have depth to absorb his loss.

But hey, don’t hold back with the dreadful/ unfair/ groundless/ moronic...!

[Bobshot]

Could be that Hayward is squeezing out some of the PT of the younger players who are on the rise. It boils down to what's different from last year? Well, accommodating Hayward is what's different, and Stevens has not done a good job of it.

[Celtics4ever]

Could be that Hayward is squeezing out some of the PT of the younger players who are on the rise.

If you think Brown is on the rise, this year, run don't walk, to Lenscrafters!

[Ogaju]

Could be that Hayward is squeezing out some of the PT of the younger players who are on the rise.

If you think Brown is on the rise, this year, run don't walk, to Lenscrafters!

I think his point is that Hayward's inclusion has not allowed the progression of the younger players from last year's stellar play.

[gouki88]

Could be that Hayward is squeezing out some of the PT of the younger players who are on the rise.

If you think Brown is on the rise, this year, run don't walk, to Lenscrafters!

I think his point is that Hayward's inclusion has not allowed the progression of the younger players from last year's stellar play.

I could see it not allowing progression. What I couldn't see was massive regression from almost every player

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Could be that Hayward is squeezing out some of the PT of the younger players who are on the rise.

If you think Brown is on the rise, this year, run don't walk, to Lenscrafters!

I think his point is that Hayward's inclusion has not allowed the progression of the younger players from last year's stellar play.

I could see it not allowing progression. What I couldn't see was massive regression from almost every player

Yeah, the whole "Hayward = Youngsters' Regression" theory doesn't fly with me at all. Even if they're getting fewer shots because of Hayward, that's no excuse for making them at a lower rate.

[gpap]

Could be that Hayward is squeezing out some of the PT of the younger players who are on the rise.

If you think Brown is on the rise, this year, run don't walk, to Lenscrafters!

I think his point is that Hayward's inclusion has not allowed the progression of the younger players from last year's stellar play.

I could see it not allowing progression. What I couldn't see was massive regression from almost every player

Yeah, the whole "Hayward = Youngsters' Regression" theory doesn't fly with me at all. Even if they're getting fewer shots because of Hayward, that's no excuse for making them at a lower rate.

I agree. It's easy to pinpoint one person (aka Hayward) as the poster boy for the team's issues. But the fact is Tatum and Brown aren't really making the most of their minutes. I am starting to think it's more than a minutes issue and that this roster as assembled just doesn't fit.

We have a logjam of small forwards so there's no balance. We need a pure shooting guard and a better center than Baynes because we are getting killed on the boards. Starting to think a trade is in order.

And as for Rozier, if he wants a trade, I'd be happy to drive him to the airport. He's not as good as he thinks.

[ozgod]

Could be that Hayward is squeezing out some of the PT of the younger players who are on the rise.

If you think Brown is on the rise, this year, run don't walk, to Lenscrafters!

I think his point is that Hayward's inclusion has not allowed the progression of the younger players from last year's stellar play.

I could see it not allowing progression. What I couldn't see was massive regression from almost every player

Yeah, the whole "Hayward = Youngsters' Regression" theory doesn't fly with me at all. Even if they're getting fewer shots because of Hayward, that's no excuse for making them at a lower rate.

I really think it's an attitude/effort issue which is mental. They get mentally down on themselves if they miss and then it affects their effort on the defensive end. Then they need a jolt (like a 20 point deficit) to change gears.The fact that they're able to come back after falling behind a lot a number of times this year already shows it's totally a mental issue.

Also last year Brown, Tatum and Rozier all had a lot to prove, Tatum that he belonged in the NBA, Brown and Rozier that they deserved to start. Anything good they did was a bonus, we were playing with house money after Gordon went down. This year they're all established and getting tons of plaudits. Not to say it went to their head necessarily but I think it lulled them into a false sense of complacency about how they got there in the first place - by playing hard, not letting their heads drop after missing shots, and always being committed on defense.

And it's not like the offense was much better last year, though they did shoot 3s better - our offense wasn't anything special and we can go back to a number of game threads from last year where we were pulling our hair out over their ugly offense but our poor offense never affected our defensive commitment. This year for whatever reason, not sure if it's communication or whatever, they don't seem to be able to maintain that defensive commitment throughout the game. It's almost like they are too consumed in showing what they can do offensively to put the ball in the hole that other facets of their game has been neglected. E.g. Jaylen's % of total rebounds grabbed has gone from 9.1% to 8.8% to 7.6% in the 3 years he has been in the league. His assists are down, steals are down. This after his minutes have only gone down by 2 from 30 to 28 and his usage rate 20% is virtually identical to last year.

That said you can't really blame just the young guys - as a whole the team is struggling with its identity.

[footey]

It's Rozier, and *maybe* Brown.

Rozier considers himself a 30 mpg player and he's only hit that mark twice in 18 games. Averaging 19 mpg over the last 4. Playing for a contract. Obviously unhappy.

Brown is the wildcard here. The team has elevated both Tatum and Hayward ahead of him, despite him having a year on Tatum and Hayward obviously not 100%. Over the last 5 games Tatum and Hayward are playing 30+ and Brown is averaging 24. I think he considers himself a rising All-Star but he's being treated like the 5th wheel behind Irving, Hayward, Tatum and Horford and on par with Rozier and Smart. That's 7 guys around or above his level with no end in sight.

I see the proper roster as:

The core: Irving, Hayward, Horford
The untouchable future star: Tatum
The blue collar guys: Smart, Morris, Wanamaker, Baynes, Theis
The cancer: Rozier
The assets: Brown, SAC19, other 1st rounders
Prospects: Williams
Sorta useful: Ojeleye
Expendable: Yabusele

You’re not watching the same games as I am. Horford has been dreadful. Tatum mediocre; not playing like a future star, and certainly not untouchable. Calling Rozier a cancer without a single quote attributable to him is unfair and groundless. Turning 22 year old Brown after hitting a bad stretch as trade bait is moronic.

Sure I am. Horford is still a core player and starter on a contender. Tatum is still a future star. These things haven’t changed in 18 games. He’s widely considered the #1 or #2 player in his draft class and is under contract for years. That’s untouchable unless you’re getting Anthony Davis, who we literally can’t trade for.

Rozier might not hold the blame but his situation is cancerous. Virtually everyone believes he’s unhappy and gone after this year. It’s not a personal judgement on Terry, maybe he has a right to be upset about the contract $$$ he could be losing.

As for Brown, I would want a king’s ransom for him, but my point is that you maximize the roster by being decisive sometimes. That’s why I call him an asset, not trade bait. He’s valuable and we have depth to absorb his loss.

But hey, don’t hold back with the dreadful/ unfair/ groundless/ moronic...!

My frustration has made me over emotional. What you said wasn’t moronic; my response was. Like a lot of us, probably including you, I was relishing the start of this season with everyone back healthy, expecting them to coast through with 60-65 wins. This start, going on 18 games, has really bummed me out.

[nickagneta]

Never trusted Gary Washburn's incite on what's happening behind the scenes. I think he is guessing on a lot of this and making assumptions from nothing.